@Ralf - I am a huge fan of 3 Ptruths in a junk fit deck. I play 2 in my bug deck and would want to run 3 if I had any life gain aside from Drs. That card is really busted and a card this deck has been looking for a long time.
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@Ralf - I am a huge fan of 3 Ptruths in a junk fit deck. I play 2 in my bug deck and would want to run 3 if I had any life gain aside from Drs. That card is really busted and a card this deck has been looking for a long time.
I agree, Pruths is strong. Drawing more cards is almost always good!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
I only speak the (painful) truth when I say card is strong in all 3 colour decks playing black.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
@ echelon- i really want to try skimming on white sources and increasing my turn one non fetch green count. My play style and card selections specifically the life gain has shown me that playing around stifle daze and pierce leaves me not wanting white till the mid game. Plains #2 is hands down the worst card in any non stonefore or baneslayer builds.
@ralf im also not sold on glissa or merens nessecity. ive always played nightmare its the reason i picked up the deck in the first place and currently glissa is getting a shot but i think finks is the card the list really wants. I have never tried knight but if finks and glissa dont work out ill try -1 bayou -1 glissa +1 karakas +1 knight. For some reason i dont own any vindicates that will change tonight tho. Pulse has always been my catch all crutch and its served me well. Sweeping up tokens is no joke ill take any potential 2 for ones i can get.
@warden- i can't bring myself to play the counterable 4cmc extraction effects leaning on discard into surgical feels like it has wider applications across other bad matchups. Shriekmaw is one of my all time favorite cards.
@Sdematt: Sigarda no 2 does seem interesting, it's a low investment (1 sb/main slot) which helps us apply our best threat in the Miracles matchup (and BUG-x). Worth testing. I tend to prefer S.Games or Tsunami since they provide relevant threats in combo matchups [too].
@Slaughter Games: I've also been sceptical about SG, basically since Miracles started playing Mentor which made it harder shutting down their threats. Its other main application was vs Sneak and Show, and I agree that that deck seems very strong in the current meta but it's not being played a lot and thus the value of SG drops. In the SnS matchup it was crucial to have a lucky early Therapy to delay them and then an SG to follow up with; from there the game wasn't over but you had reasonable chances. However, I haven't found other cards that are valuable vs both grindy control decks and combo decks (well see comment on blue splash below). I think land destruction may be one such alternative, if it's plenty of land destruction (like e.g. Tsunami vs blue decks - Storm, Miracles, Grixis).
@Ralf: thanks for that wall of text! Keep it coming! Interesting comments about Abeyance, being a cantrip may make it playable in the maindeck and if hiding it with a top it can actually win vs Storm, vs Miracles it messes with key spells. I'm guessing it won't be strong enough to justify sb slots.
I'm also into KotR and Vindicate.. I consider a blue splash over the red for 3 Invasive Surgery (and if I go for KotR+Vindicates+sb wastelands maybe even 2 sb stifles). It will take a few turns to get Delirium, and unreliably at that, but it's a counterspell from turn 1 and can be hidden with top. And a potential SG without card disadvantage. It should be relevant in more matchups.
Do you have any sideboard guide?
I follow the topic have some time and do not remember seeing any.
@Pettdan:
You have raised an interesting point that we shall discuss later:
How should we play Nic Fit ?
Shall we try to hedge against combo MD or not ?
Without going further into detail today, since i am hammered (TGIF), i'll just leave behind the March meta anyone could reflect his boarding choice on to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogo37
Pos - Archetype - Points
1º - Eldrazi - 238
2º - Miracle Control - 211
3º - Grixis Pyromancer - 207
4º - Berserk Stompy - 133
5º - Death and Taxes - 117
6º - Lands - 107
7º - BUG Control - 98
8º - Team America - 98
9º - Elves - 91
10º - Burn - 79
11º - OmniTell - 72
12º - Ad Nauseam Tendrils - 69
13º - Nic Fit - 59
14º - Jund - 58
15º - Blade Control - 56
16º - The Rock - 49
17º - Sneak Attack - 48
18º - Reanimator - 47
19º - Threshold UGr - 45
20º - MUD - 44
21º - Merfolks - 40
22º - Goblins - 40
23º - 4c Delver - 38
24º - Maverick - 35
25º - Post Ramp - 33
26º - Painters - 32
27º - Dredge - 31
28º - UR Burn - 29
29º - Food Chain - 27
30º - Tin Fins - 24
31º - DeathBlade - 24
32º - Dragon Stompy - 17
33º - Aggro Loam - 16
34º - Affinity - 15
35º - Deadguy Ale - 15
36º - Bant Aggro - 14
37º - Belcher - 13
38º - Dark Depths - 12
39º - UR Aggro - 8
40º - Pox - 8
41º - Stax - 7
42º - Tezzeret Control - 7
43º - Infect - 7
44º - Enchantress - 7
45º - Threshhold UGr - 6
The cards in my Junk Nic Fit SB that fit that bill are Null Rod/Stony Silence for things like Miracles/Storm/12 Post/D&T if you're cool with it neutering your Top, Gaddock Teeg+Sylvan Safekeeper for various control and combo stuff, and Matsu-Tribe Sniper if you want to test something unusual, for combo like Sneak & Show and control like Lands, if you consider that grindy control.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
That is one of the advantages of Jund Nic Fit, you get Red Elemental Blasts and Slaughter Games against Combo and Miracle. So post board against Combo you have 4 Thoughtseizes, 4 Therapies, 4 REBs, 2-3 Slaughter Games, 3 Lilianas and 2 Surgicals. This turns combo into a positive matchup in games 2 and 3. And Miracles is also much easier with 4 Thoughtseize, 4 REB, 3 Liliana and 2-3 Slaughter Games.
I made a SB guide in the original Nic Fit OP for Fire lists. It is like 5 years old but in general I dont think much changed.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20983
The trick with Jund against Miracles is to side out Explorer and Therapy. For Rhinos, I am sure you can make a decent strategy too, but I lack a bit experience with those.
I haven't played Jund Nic Fit so this is just guesswork, but does it commonly feel awkward playing Red Elemental Blast, given that Nic Fit mostly wants to tap out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
It has two main purposes that it does very well:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
- shoot ANYTHING from combo decks to limit their resources, for example the first Ponder you see, just as an additional way to interact with them early on. This will make Liliana and your other Discard better and maybe give you time to get to Slaughter Games or to draw into more discard.
- keep Jace off the table against Miracles (or maybe snipe a CB on the stack if you dont have Decay).
Jace and Combo are the two main problems of Nic Fit. REB is one of the best cards in the game against Jace. And even though it is not great against Combo, it is at least useful against them which is still a big improvement because you have so many dead maindeck cards against them. So against Miracles it is the perfect answer for their biggest threat and against Combo it is an upgrade from a dead card to a solid card.
Anything else that REB can do, like sniping a FoW, a Brainstorm (especially in response to Therapy) or a Show and Tell is a bonus.
Thanks @Tao and @Bobmans
The general idea with the list i posted yesterday is to make a table with it. But what i have not thought about is to generate NicFit "generic" sideboard choices and qualify them as High, Medium and Low impact for every MU OR to grab a "standard" Junk SB and go over the in's and out's for each one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogo37
So i'll be doing either somewhere today and with imput of others to improve it.
I just started playtesting this deck on cockatrice while I build the paper deck, and its hilarious how many people have no idea/forgot what siege rhino does. I've had to tell them to -3 in half my games so far. A+ deck, loving it
REB has more application then just be reactive. It kills blue creatures and foremost it kills Jace. Also it stops Show and Tell or Counter a FoW on a crucial spell. The card has a very broad application and it only requires 1 mana. But yes, during the first couple turns, holding this card against combo can be awkward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
Ok, so. I am working on a sideboard cheat sheet and wanted to share the file i have so far. Because it requires a large amount of time to complete i will keep working on it for it is not complete yet. Any input/discussion is welcome of course. I have made the spreadsheet so that i can easily extract it's content and turn it into a JSON file so i can work with it later on a web based environment. Format wise i decided to build a "stock" list based on a merge of Ralf's latest list and my own. The spreadsheet then follows a boarding strategy that applies on that list. The list holds a couple of cards that are interchangeable. For example, Choke may as well be Tsunami. Bigger changes might be fine, but the core sheet isn't flexible for that. I do have some thoughts on how to make it more dynamical, but that means a lot more work and i still need a "base" to work with. For now, this should suffice for the initial request.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogo37
Cheatsheet / Sideboarding.
This is the "stock" list:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Knight of the Reliquary // Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Painful Truths
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
2 Anguished Unmaking // Vindicate // Maelstrom Pulse
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
SB: 2 Deathrite Shaman
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage // Qasali Pridemage
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Garruk Relentless
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Choke // Tsunami
Thanks for the input, Scott! I really like the Null Rod/Stony Silence for the reasons you mention and play it whenever I can with good deck synergy, but to me SDT seems too important to shut down in the Miracles matchup (they have more varied card selection than us and can draw the top and Brainstorm it away), and I don't think it's good enough to keep in the board for the other matchups only. Vs Storm Canonist is better, they can still go off with rituals throug Rod and vs cloudpost I don't think it slows their mana development enough, also they don't work well with Deed (if you'd want something vs artifacts in fair matchups - or rather Deed already does that job better).. I have P.Needle which overlaps and is good vs Depths/Stage and Infect and vs Miracles you can stop SDT if the game state is good for it otherwise you can stop Jace or Karakas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
Gaddock in my experience does very little vs Miracles, maybe I'll try maindecking him with Safekeeper backup and a Titania. That could be powerful enough in enough matchups to make it maindeck viable. But it takes a lot of slots in a list that wants so much. I do sb Gaddock for Storm and Elves.
The sniper is an interesting find but I wonder if the decks you want it against will board in Pyroclasm or Abrupt Decay, it's a gamble. Or they maindeck Punishing Fire or Elesh Norn. It seems too vulnerable. Maybe it could be played in Maverick next to Mother of Runes, on the other hand they have KotR + Karakas. Will get a copy.
Thanks for your input too, Tao! I've seen you post similar boards before and it certainly seems like a strong sideboard plan, I never played it in full (only 2 REB's, wasn't convinved but that could be variance) because I've been trying other things and it takes almost all sb space leaving few slots for other troublesome matchups - lands mostly I guess. I think I'll try Punishing Fit soon again, I switched to Rhino Fit due to a heavy lands presence but haven't played against the deck once after changing. I'll probably give your sb a chance in that case, one especially nice aspect of it is all the low cmc's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
Thanks, yes the SB plan works very well against Combo and Miracle.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
But any deck with the goal to use Dark Depths is 100% unwinnable for Punishing Fire versions, in my experience. Dont even bother dedicating SB slots... and if those decks are in your meta, stay away from Punishing Nic Fit.
I also don't know how Fire would work in the current Metagame, have not played in a while. Maybe Rhino is just stronger at the moment. But what I do know is that I have seen some terrible Sideboards in Rhino lists. I think there is a lot of room for improvement on the SB.
A question for the Rhino players: what about Knight of the Reliquary? The old reason to not include him was that he dies to Swords, but when Rhinos die to Swords anyway, could you not play him, too?
I don't play Knight because there aren't many lands to search up to abuse. Rhino dodges Decay and so on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Same here. Just get Siege Rhino when you want to start being the beatdown. It's a little bit harder to kill and impacts the board as soon as it hits the field.
I've looked at Titania a couple of times (when you're running KotR you might just as well run Titania for some serious blow-out potential), but it just seems like too much setup for something that still dies to Lightning Bolt (even though Titania can do a pretty good Grave Titan impression).
Knight does a good job vs gurmag angler and the various eldrazi, and she does it for 3 mana (ok most of the time it is for 4 mana cause green sun).
Also your karakas becomes available as a 6 of (karkas, knight, greensun) witch helps vs fatty decks.
Having a relevant threat when you're not in explorer mana is also nice.
But the slots,the slots, too many options too few slots :cry:
Ok, so based on the latest comments I'll make a few adjustments to my current list, more in order to see what happens than based on any specific analysis. Changes are made with Miracles and Eldrazi in mind, being the two best dtb's, but also with consideration of the general meta. Here's the previous list: Previous Rhino list. [edit: just noticed sdematt suggested a similar change, from a different list, in the following post.]
MD:
-1 Evolutionary Leap, +1 Sylvan Safekeeper
Comment: E.L. was obviously a very experimental slot, and even though it was always pretty good or great Sylvan Safekeeper fulfills a similar role in preserving threats but is GSZ-able.
Safekeeper does not offer card advantage, semi-tutoring or protection from sweepers (looking at you, Terminus).
Safekeeper does however protect silver bullet creatures in some matchups, namely Gaddock (vs Miracles, Storm), Scavenging Ooze (vs Goyf, Deathrite, Lands etc), Stoneforge Mystic (fetching Batterskull with protection for Mystic seems potentially strong in fair matchups), and of course having the superstar Siege Rhino unswordable. I hope Olle Råde (a.k.a. Sylvan Safekeeper) will help putting pressure on opponents.
This actually means lands become more important, may need to reconsider Veteran no 4.
-1 Meren of Clen Nel Toth, +1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
Comment: Some have mentioned that Meren is not that strong, I'll try a Titania to see how valuable it is to power out lots of 5/3 tokens (I've played in Maverick and Sylvan Plug, with added Wasteland synergy), and with potential Safekeeper blowouts. I think the offensive capabilities of Titania could be better than the grindiness of Meren in especially the Miracles matchup, but vs Eldrazi having several 5/3's to trade with Smashers and Thought-Knots is certainly relevant. It's also a faster card, even though it costs 1 mana more it's an immediate threat rather then Meren who takes more time and requires more setup to accumulate an advantage.
This change makes the maindeck Qasali less good, with Meren gone. May revert to Abrupt Decay no 4 or Vindicate no 3.
SB:
-1 Tsunami, +1 Red Elemental Blast
Comment: Playing 1 Taiga only this may be a bad idea, but it's quicker interaction vs combo decks where it coupled with Therapy/Thoughtseize offers more varied interaction during turn 1-2, it's also a way to stop t2 Counterbalance or any turn Jace. While also getting rid of Delvers in the Grixis matchup. Or stopping Show and Tell where applicable. Certainly worthy of testing, there is also Deathrite to occasionally offer the needed red mana. This change goes against my idea to put some pressure on Miracles' lands by maindeck Vindicates and sb Tsunami/Choke. But there will still be the one of Choke and the Enlightened tutor can find it vs Storm and Grixis who have a hard time getting rid of it.
Its a very nice work Bob, I try this list as much as possible and comeback with some arguments and I hope to help finish this file.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Yesterday I play this MD http://imgur.com/3I7NCqk -1 Deed (the guy I was going to buy not come in time for the start of the tournament) -1 Top, +1 Courser +1 KotR
and I lose to Agro Loam, Jund, Bant Blade and draw vs Miracles
This deck is sweet when you know how to play with it, I definitely play more and try Bobs list.
Those match-ups are usually the favorable ones. At least, i'd play any of those any day over Miracles. But, NicFit is actually pretty skill intensive, like stated in the OP, it is one you should commit to. But is sure is one of the most fun deck to play Magic the Gathering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogo37
Cool, i just put up this new location for the cheatsheet, so i can access it when playing at Frankfurt next month ;-p
Rhino's Abbondanza! Everybody should get some.
@Bobmans: You sir, are a hero. I hereby enstate thee as the altar boy of the sacred church of our lord and savior Siege Rhino. Your duties will be polishing the high priests... sleeves... and being fulltime awesome.
In the name of the holy Siege Rhino, I salute you.
Anyways... I jammed some Nic Fit yesterday (my buddy and I managed to get together quicker than I imagined) and have some thoughts on a couple of my recent card choices.
Sorin: He's never leaving the deck. Ever. He's that good. I've had him on the field a couple of times (once or twice via Diabolic Intent) and oh my god, can he turn a game around (or let you hold on that much longer). The first time he hit the field he let me live out our high priest's dream of +1 into Siege Rhino, cast Siege Rhino (after which our lord and savior quickly ended the game). The second time he first killed a creature, then started to + me into prosperity. I once also had the luck to + into a Sigarda (but I am a very lucky bastard by nature). Turns out Grixis Delver and D&T can't deal with this guy for the life of them. Sorin hit the dust exactly one time. He started off killing a Koth, +'d a couple of times while ignoring some 1/1 token and finally got killed off by a Lightning Bolt or something. I'm prepared to officially enstate Sorin as a lesser deity.
Glissa: Wasn't horrible. Wasn't great either. Might need some specific MUs to shine. Don't feel the need to trade her in just yet.
Mainboard Gaddock Teeg: OMG, I hate this motherfucker so much. I don't know if I hate ANT/TES enough to maindeck this bastard.
Qasali Pridemage: Blew up a Batterskull when my opponent was tapped out, that was fun. In MUs without targets he's never horrible. Not great either though. Seemingly annoying enough to warrant removal to the face, so that's fine.
On not having AD whenever I had one of these creatures in hand (since they pretty much occupy the same slots): I don't think having AD at those times would have mattered much, but that might just have been the MUs (Grixis Delver, D&T and some Modern Red Deck Wins variant with Blood Moons).
@Whoever suggested 3 MD Painful Truths: At the moment I would be able to consider that. Painful Truths was horrible exactly once yesterday, but nothing would have saved me there. The other times I drew it/had it, it was great. I'd probably take out Glissa and Teeg or Meren and Teeg (I get your point, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to give up on Meren just yet) and run an extra DRS and Painful Truths no. 3.
Hi guys,
I typically pilot delver, but happen to have a lot of Nic Fit cards just laying around so I decided to just finish the deck. Mainly because Siege Rhino is a silly card.
I'm running this list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/399401#paper
I saw the sideboarding guide, but this list seems very different in comparison to the "stock" list. (Slaughtergames vs none)
Is there a sb guide for the lists running slaughtergames?
I really wasn't sure what to bring in/out vs Grixis Delver.
I know I want to bring in Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge, Tsunami
I guess I should drop Karakas, Scavenging Ooze, Rec Sage
What matchups are Slaughtergames brought in? Miracles, and likely combo?
Another one joins the cause! In the name of the holy Siege Rhino, I salute you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaytron
Grixis Delver has the tendency to run DRS, so keep your Scavenging Ooze in. Fucking with their DRS can win you the game.
I'd board out Glissa, Reclamation Sage and an Abrupt Decay (they don't present enough targets to need it, especially if you have Scavenging Ooze & your own DRS to thwart theirs and bring in more sweepers).
You could also board out Meren, as her ability targets and they sometimes splash Tropical Island just to be able to eat creatures (it's a bit of a long shot though, but if you really value your AD it's a path you can take). I wouldn't go down to 20 lands though.
I wouldn't board out lands when playing vs any Wastland.dec.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaytron
Ooze is good vs any DRS deck as mentioned, so keep it in. Only play it when you can safely grow if to 4 power, then it becomes a real nightmare for the Grixis opponent (if they don't run Abrupt Decays).
Tsunami is questionable - it is great if you resolve it, but honesty you have already won the game if it lasted that long.. any 4cmc+ threat in you deck can wrack them (personally I don't bring them in).
I wouldn't board out any removal either, losing to a fast clock + disruption is the most likely scenario.
My boarding with the given list:
- Rec. Sage
- Painful Truths (or Glissa) (never played Glissa, but it seems to me that she could easily stall the ground for 1+ turns, which is a big thing (although she does nothing against DRS or Delver))
+ Toxic Deluge
+ Golgari Charm
Why would you board out a card that lets you pull ahead of your opponent and keep in one that dies to the Lightning Bolts and possible Abrupt Decays they play and does nothing for 8 out of the 12/14 threats they play..?
Postboard you probably also face Clique and/or True-Name Nemesis, so Glissa'd be useless vs. 10 out of their 12/14 threats...
Well Glissa is probably a better candidate for siding out then P.Truths, but honestly neither are great vs Grixis. From my experience, paying 3 life points and 3 mana is a serious investment vs that deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
It is obviously great once you stabilize and you have 9+ life points, but this is not as easy as it might sound :)
edit: edited to make it more clear
I played the MU quite a number of times yesterday (and do so more often when I meet up with my buddy) and it's pretty much a cakewalk. The only time the MU is problematic is when they manage to Stifle a crucial fetchland activation or Explorer trigger (or FoW an Explorer), but most Grixis builds are moving away from Stifle. Just fetch a lot of basics and you're good. Wasteland is best when ignored, which in turn allows you to power through Daze. Pre- and postboard are both like 70/30 to 80/20. It's an insanely good MU (even sans AD).
The plan boils down to resolve an Explorer trigger/a bunch of removal, cast a small threat and have that killed/countered, cast anywhere between 1 and 3 Siege Rhinos and win.
Did u ever face the situation that someone played surgical on the rhino? How do u win? Most of the time sigarda is the last wincon I guess.
I played 12post and switched to nic fit or 8post/nic due to the missing board presence.
I like this deck a lot but I wonder what happens if all rhinos are gone. I play 15 creatures.
4 rhinos
4 vet
2 drs
1 kitchen finks or kotr
1 eternal w
1 ooze
1 qasali
1 sigarda
That is why I really consider to put thragtusk back in the deck..
I haven't. Most builds run 2 kill conditions that go bigger than Siege Rhino. If Rhino is a no-go, I can always fall back on Sigarda and/or Sorin, Grim Nemesis. In my case that's 4 GSZ + 2 Diabolic Intent + 1 Sigarda + 1 Sorin = 8 kill conditions left in the deck after Rhinos get extracted (excluding Eternal Witness-shenanigans here). If those fail, you can always grind out your opponent with DRS or smash face with Scavenging Ooze.Quote:
Originally Posted by cherson
Slaughter Games is not strong enough sb anymore, I believe. I'm jamming 4 mistcutters atm bc I fkn hate miracles and I want to resolve my spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaytron
I haven't had more than 2 games, in my lifetime, where I have run out of rhinos or had them extracted. Sigarda and Sorin are more than enough. If you feel otherwise, you can put in a thragtusk but it is superfluous.Quote:
Originally Posted by cherson
Echelon, back at it again with the perfect responses. (I don't believe in DI but that's cool man)Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
@Jaytron: that list is solid BUTTTTT cut the rec sage and glissa for vindicate and Sorin GN. 3 SG can become 2 canonist and something spicy depending upon your meta.
That's fine. One day you too will be brave enough to do your sudokus in pen!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
By the way - I mentioned the Intents mostly to highlight how I look at cards during deckbuilding, how I evaluate situations during games etc.
BUT FIRST, I must learn to read and do basic arithmetic. I just do not like the possibility of being blown out by a counterspell. I am sure it happens very often but I cant do it, captain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I get that :smile:. The best way to avoid such a risk is to eliminate it altogether. It's perfectly reasonable to want to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
I appreciate your understanding. I am sure one day I will gather up the courage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Side note: I've been reading the modern jund forum on mtgsalvation and I just want to say: I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU. SERIOUSLY, THINKING BEFORE POSTING AND BEING UNDERSTANDING OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SEEKING ANSWERS. DEAR LORD, ITS LIKE NIGHT AND DAY, BUT NO WEREWOLVES. Thank god im too lazy to make a mtgsalvation account of the jund thread would be painted red.
LoL,
Really glad to hear more on Sorin. With the inclusion of Volrath's Stronghold (rather then Meren), i can use KotR to fetch the two towers if needed.
Combining them with Siege Rhino and Sorin, one could: Attack with Rhino, flip it to the top; +1 Sorin, cast Rhino, GO!