Does anybody agree with me that Coatl is better the Trygon? It also pitches to FoW. That is enough to say that it is a shitty card, it improves the quality of NLU, wich is allready upper tier.
Nuff said.
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Does anybody agree with me that Coatl is better the Trygon? It also pitches to FoW. That is enough to say that it is a shitty card, it improves the quality of NLU, wich is allready upper tier.
Nuff said.
who fucking cares about if a card pitches into fow or not..?
srsly guys, thats like going to a bar @ friday night and getting a milk for free alongside the orderd beer.
And there he is:
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/arb/101.jpg
Ye may now bathe thee in thy glory.
(Dunno if the picture was already posted somewhere else)
Imho the "Dryad-factor" of being a bad topdeck is much less relevant, since it grows on it's own and doesn't take too long before reaching a relevant size.
Sure, it takes it's time, but it has already been stated, that it's better in slower builds.
That said, testing will tell if Next-Level-Grow needs just another big dude or more utility like V. Clique etc...
Strange, I must have imagined all those non-Countertop decks showing up on Day 2 or in the Top 8 of Chicago...obviously, they can't have won a single game since they weren't playing Force + Daze + CBalance.
I mean, I'm getting tired of playing against blue Aggro-control as well, but some of the claims in this thread are ridiculous.
I like milk :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdez
I don't start to scream that this is the end of the formate... but why the hell get's the allready best deck a few percentages more power?
I can't understand that, perhaps WotC does not care about Legacy? Possible, cause Coatl won't be a bomb for any existing competitive deck in T2.
That's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
There are lot of comes into play / leaves play abilities around (a lot lot). Some of them are simply huge (sundering titan, etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
There are not a lot of cards that enable you to just "put a card into play". And they're ALL significantly worse than flash. Show and Tell is probably effectively the best flash wannabe, except for three huge differences :
- it's a sorcery
- it costs one more mana
- it's symmetrical
- it doesn't kill the target on the spot, so forget about the leaves play abilities.
Even though being the closest you'll get to Flash, Show and Tell is no Flash.
Wrong. That's the whole reason mana costs exist. To make you jump through an initial hoop the difficulty of which is inversely proportional to the next hoops you'll still have to jump through to win the game after the effect has resolved. And this is exactly the perfect reason to have gotten rid of Flash and not Hulk : bypassing mana costs too easily (asymetrical, instant, 2 mana) is the danger, because that is the thing that is going against the philosophy around which the whole game is built. It already made a mess once that had to be dealt with. Putting design contraints on more than a third of all cards from now til the end of time, and checking that there are absolutely no obscure way to turn the effect into some bizarre win thanks to forgotten cards from nine years ago to account for the brokenness of a fringe card from ten years ago in a second-rate (as in : not Standard) format would be plain ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
Now compare that with : being careful about effects allowing you to bypass the mana cost of cards, ie something they are already doing anyway, Hulk or not, that is not doing anything more than usual.
Please. It's not even close enough to state it's not even close.
As nobody has mentioned it yet:
THX @ PR for the nice collection of overhyped posts! Really funny to compare the Ad Nauseam sky falling with the current one.
Well, the basicideas about this card are okay, but the hype is ridiculous.
It is better than a Quirion Dryad. Yes. But both have something in common: They suck terribly as a topdeck and can be burnt just before they can cause any trouble.
As for Threshold, I think it is okay because:
+ It grows bigger than Goyf
+ +1/+1 counters make it resilent against Humility
+ with 2 Tops, it's a cheaper Jenara that works on Socery speed
+ it can be pitched into force (this is for all the guys who find that one important...)
+ reveals for CC3 with Counterbalance which can be crucial.
But:
- A pseudo-Jenara without evasion and Sorcery speed pump sucks. Period.
- terrible as a topdeck, no immediate impact on the boardposition without Brainstorm
- are you really going to spare a Brainstorm just to Giant Growth it? I doubt. This rather happens by chance as you are improving your resources quite early with BS (at least I do).
-> Jenara does the same thing as Coatl, but better!
But the real card to hype is - as DerF already mentioned - Qasali Pridemage. Just insanely versatile.
Here's a real quick post:
I went to the pre-release and opened both a Pridemage and a Coat-tail. Both died before they saw an attack step! (I sometimes judge the quality of cards based on how quickly an opponent attempts to kill it).
Similarly I got a Coatl in my sealed pool, and after Scullering and Brainbiting all of my opponent's removal, dropped him on the board with a Courier's Capsule and ended the game really quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten
No, it doesn't. Jenara requires two mana to grow it each time, one of which is white. Don't get me wrong, she's still a great card, but the snake outclasses her by miles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
Pridemage is really good too though. I do agree with you there.
Yes. The snake is almost always at least a 5/5 or 6/6 the turn after it comes into play, with no more investment than just playing your deck. It is also not a legend, so if you've got a huge snake on the board your opponent can't drop one of his own to nuke it.Quote:
Originally Posted by memnarch
Evasion is nice though, but you'll still be racing a guy that will probably end up an 8/8+.
I opened up and played a Sen Triplets, and whenever I played them, my opponent's face went from "Hey guys, we're having an awesome time at the prerelease!" to "I can't even begin to describe how much I hate you" whenever they stuck around for a turn. Then I played lands from their hand, and played their guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten
I like to gauge creatures on the look on my opponent's face. Or how demoralized they get. But by that logic, when I played double Nemesis of Reason, that card should be crazy.
I don't know man, we'd keep playing magic if you still had some cards left.
Coatl requires at least one mana to grow each time but the first each turn (cantrips do cost mana) and most of that mana can only be spent at sorcery speed (Ponder, Top). Also, when you're growing your snake, you're wasting precious cantrips weakening your game after your opponent handled your stuff whereas Jenara needs no further investment but mana (which also makes her a way better lategame draw and topdeck).Quote:
Originally Posted by majikal
Not that big a difference after all, is it?
As I mentioned before, this guy is good if you have a Brainstorm or 1+ Sensei's Divining Tops. If you don't have any of those, he's underwhelming. If you have a Top, you're already ahead meaning that any decent beater will do. The snake therefore is basically only better than the alternatives if you have a Brainstorm - and I'm not really into 2-card combos which give me nothing but a vanilla beater (if I would, I'd be playing Dreadstill and not the more consistent deck).Quote:
Originally Posted by majikal
This factor however would make you think that Figure of Destiny is very powerful also, when in fact it is just a decent beater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten
I'm still thinking Sylvan Library will now see play for all of the other things it does, which were not enough to put it over the top but now with Lorescale Coatl potentially do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_imaginäre_Freund
+3/+3 for no mana each turn to Lorescale Coatl when it's on the board. The effect grows with dupes on the board so extra Sylvan's are not a completely dead draw.
3 cards to look at each turn for no mana after the original investment.
Up to 2 extra cards drawn each turn for life loss.
People who think that Sensei's Divining Top and Sylvan can't go together in a deck are being a bit unimaginative in terms of envisioning what permanent dig can do for you, particularly with 6+ fetches in the deck.
Leaving a 2cc on top of your deck against Threshold, or a 1cc against Storm, or a 3cc against midrange decks is often enough to shut them down and win the game. Topping for the right card each interaction is more effective, but often only in a win-more scenario, since if they can't cast their lock/kill spells it doesn't really matter what else they can cast, right?
I must dissent, DiF.
Yeah, ofc they cost mana, but it's not like you wouldn't play them otherwise. If you have got a Ponder and your hand is not outright perfect, wouldn't you start diggin? Like Dryad or Countryside Crusher, you don't really have to put effort into growing the snake. It just grows all by itself, while you keep on digging for answers.Quote:
Coatl requires at least one mana to grow each time but the first each turn (cantrips do cost mana)
Jenara, if pumped, needs a reasonable amount of mana, that will be drawn from your already limited ressources. If you want to play cantrips/permission while adding counters to Jenara, you'll have to play way more than 17-18 lands, I suppose.
I don't quite agree. Ofc having him & BS/SDT is superb, but even without he's not "underwhelming". How often is Tarmogoyf bigger than 4/5? The Snake will be this size after 2-3 turns, without any further investment other than playing NQG.Quote:
As I mentioned before, this guy is good if you have a Brainstorm or 1+ Sensei's Divining Tops. If you don't have any of those, he's underwhelming
After that he will exceed goyf by far.
Yeah, he is not the best, if you're looking for an immideate blocker, but that has already been pointed out like... 20+ times.
I don't see the point here. Many decks run Top, so having one out does not mean you are getting considerably ahead of your opponent. Even if you would be ahead, this wouldn't be a reason to NOT run the BEST creature you could get to finish the job.Quote:
If you have a Top, you're already ahead meaning that any decent beater will do.
(Not saying that the snake is the best, but I assume it's among the Top-Beaters you could choose from.)
Here's the problem. He will outgrow Goyf in 2-3 turns. However, you will die in that time, or be very close to it if you don't chump. And no matter how big it gets, it is still subject to non-Red Removals in the format. There are many creatures in this format that are great if left untouched for a turn or two. Hell, even Vinelasher Kudzu can outgrow Goyf in 2-3 turns. It still means nothing, because that precious time is when your threat will sit there doing nothing while you die to more solid threats.Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenphoenix
Coatl can easily outgrow Goyf in one turn. Goyf offers more stability, however Coatl is much more explosive. Both are going to be needed in UG aggro-control at this point unless I miss my guess. And Goyf is going to be a sad puppy in the mirror more often than Coatl will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.P.
You know, he can also outgrow a goyf in just one turn, or even the same turn he got cast - without doing anything you wouldn't do normally.
That said, he isn't better then goyf, but for thresh, easily the second best vanilla beater out there. Like others have said, he's the Countryside Crusher for Thresh.
I really wish people would stop comparing this to Goyf. You play them both. And to the people saying that it's bad, you obviously have not played with or against it.
And you obviously have not read this thread. A lot of people are saying this cards is solid, not bad. We're just saying that this is not the best creature ever printed, nor the cards that will get Brainstorm banned or something silly like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by majikal