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Has anyone considered adding in a single Knight of the reliquary as well as a riptide laboratory. The Knight would let you tutor for the lab and it'd give you the reusable power of both the Vendilion cliques as well as sprites similar to extended Fairies.
To be honest, this deck isn't Faeries, i.e. the synergy helps a little, but mostly Sprites just counter Brainstorm/Tops/Spell snares/StP, and occasionally Bob/Goyfs. This deck doesn't seek to lock someone out. It just seeks to counter a few key spells, resolve survival and go for the beats. I think that Faeries tricks are really sweet with a monoU faerie which I'll eventually build and test it out. I really like Sprite.
Maybe a UGw Faerie/Goyf build with Knight can suffice, but I think Knight is a waste of cardslot in this deck, whose manabase is already unstable (in anger builds). Unlike ITF/Eternal Garden, there's no other utility lands that's worthwhile. The colorless from Riptide screws the deck more than it can help since it's a heavy-mana deck in the first place thanks to survival, so you can't pull off Wizard tricks with Lab as well as a designed deck could. I am seriously considering Rofellos in the deck, together with Genesis MD. I'm tweaking on a Bant Survival list a little closer to traditional survival, but the lack of Shriekmaws and Cabal Therapy is a huge drawback. My first original list (see page 1, was a 4c list with Bob and Shriekmaw). I'm working on UGb Survival, which seems like a cool idea since Shriekmaw recursion is sometimes greater than StP in a designed Survival deck, but that's for another thread, which I'll post when it's more optimized.
Let me know how it goes, as I'm interested in how you do (working on a similar concept right now. When/If you get a thread up for it I'll post my list).Quote:
Originally Posted by crz87
KoR doesn't seem to fit well in this deck. Since Survival is such a mana-whore, having any colorless lands could easily bone you. I'm "ok" with where my mana base is right now, but I'm still running 18 colored sources with 4 Hierarch, Vial, and Brainstorm. Cutting any colored sources seems like a bad call to me.
I've done major testing in the past time and results are really awesome. Also some major changes to the deck have been made. cutting alot of cards.
Will do some more testing before posting the list!
Considering the deck runs Survival, it really doesn't seem too rough getting Genesis in the yard, and getting two other creatures, one on the board, and one in you hand. You could probably just do it all in one turn and just one... seems good to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
Yes, you could... I definitely see the merits of it, but how is running 3 Oriss better than 1 Spore Frog? I could see the Oriss lock helping versus combo, but I am not really worried about that since I would much rather just keep tutoring for Faeries if I have an active Survival against storm. Spore Frog is cheaper to play, easier to cast, and I don't need to devote too many slots to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
Jak and Weik:
I just wanted to say that if I could play something other then UWb Wish Still this would be the deck. Thank you for evolving this archtype. It's so much fun to play!
Sweet! I am glad we could get people interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by mossivo1986
Thnx Mossivo, really appriciated
One of the main reasons I love about the deck is that it's so easily tuneable for a specific meta.
@ oriss discussion. Why turn your deck into a more survival dependant deck where the replacements do well without any survival or genesis in the yard?
I will post my newest list after I played it the 5th.
Yesterday I played this deck to a 5-0-1 record at the monthly Iserlohn tournament, making the 2nd place.
I played this list:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
1 [P2] Plains (1)
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [R] Tropical Island
3 [R] Savannah
1 [R] Tundra
2 [ALA] Forest (1)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [A] Taiga
// Creatures
4 [CNF] Noble Hierarch
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
1 [10E] Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
1 [JU] Wonder
1 [VI] Quirion Ranger
1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
1 [JU] Anger
// Spells
3 [LRW] Ponder
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [AL] Force of Will
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [PY] Spore Frog
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB. 2 [SHM] Firespout (against Elves, merfolk, Goblins)
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [JU] Genesis
I tested Anger instead of Rafiq for the following reason:
The Survival and play Rafiq costs you 1GGWU (cc5).
To Survival Anger and another Goyf costs you 1GGG (cc4, only monocolor).
Also Rafiq can get bolted easy.
If you don't have Survival, Rafiq is better of course, but I never liked him very much.
Anyway, in this tournament Anger wasn't good at all. I would recommend to NOT play it ever. Instead, I would add 1 Rhox War Monk or something like Loxodon Hierarch, Wickerbough Elder or Witness (at least in the sideboard for the control matchup). Some fattie with an ability.
In our meta, I often run into lands, which I want to destroy (academy Ruins, Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm, Dust Bowl). Is there a card I could use? Except Trinket Mage+Pithing Needle in the sideboard.
I just drew the Mirror (-4 Hierarchs, + 4 Vials, - Force, + Daze like he said to me). I don't want to say I could have won this game, it was 50/50 and he played the deck very well.
I won against:
AggroLoam 2-0(Game 1 with only 1 Land and Hierarch, survivaling Quirion Ranger ftw)
UWb Landstill 2-1 (Wonder discard after Humility dropped against Factorys ftw)
Ichorid 2-0(Game 1 2 Goyfs + Hierarch makes it. Game 2 Spore Frog+Genesis)
AggroRock 2-1 (Confi, Vindicate, Swords, Witness, Deed, Hymn, Thoughseize)
and I think Aggro Bant (NQG like)
This deck is such a powerhouse. I would recommend to cut the creatures, which are only good with survival to the minimum.
Squee and Wonder are just fine. Quirion Ranger just won me in the two tournaments at IS (both T8) so much games. Helping against screw, untapping my Goyfs in the war (when I had Exalted) etc. Test him!
Im not that happy with Vendillion Clique. I rarely want to play him early at the drawstep of my opponent. Rather he gets pitched to Force or Survival.
I don't know if Teferi could be a good choice. Early he is just as bad as Clique is for me. But Lategame Clique CAN hit a good card (if its not an instant). Teferi just makes your dudes better and your opponent can't counter your dudes (Sprites become better).
Congrats on your finish and nice to see your liking the deck.
I agree on anger and have cut him a long time ago. For the fact you want to stop lands I would suggest running 2/3 needle in the side and maybe a trinket mage. Altho I find trinketmage a wasted slot since ponder/bstorm can easily find one themselves.
Also needle is great at stopping vial,deed,top,elspeth etc etc.
My current sb looks like this:
SB: 1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 1 [TO] Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
I play 2 monks maindeck.
May I ask how your experience about the spellstutter sprites is. I find them rather slow in my aggro and rock dominated meta and Have chosen to drop them to 1/2 and add a kira + dazes back into the deck.
I do like them.
I started playing them in NQS.
The option to tutor a Force-Pitch is really great. Also the Flasheffect adds combattricks.
In an Aggrometa, Stutter should shine...Counter Nactal, Kird Ape und Chumpblock next turn is much better, than Daze can ever be.
problem is nactal/ape come online T1 and stutter T2 where I need to be casting a blocker to stop the beatings. So stutter comes online alot later to be run as a 4off. At least thats how I experience it. Daze can slow them down while casting your goyf/monk or survival. Also it can serve as protection landing survival and ending outtapped.
Yet still testing arround with alot of configurations
Edit.
@ windux If you like quirion ranger so much have you tried scryb ranger in the spot? or does the 2cc bother you? it is a faerie to support sprite in the end.
It really comes down to your meta. I'm still likely the card (testing still says keep it), as it will equal a win on turn four against anything without STP or Snuff Out. Jak, have you tried it? There's a world of difference between shutting off an attack step (while still being counterable) and preventing a player from playing spells. Also, while Sprite is sexy (and trust me, I love it), there's a bit of a difference in ending the game (mostly) or hoping the spell you counter is relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
I tried it in the deck but never got the lock down in the games I played with it. I'll try it again since you are having good results with it and it does mean win versus aggro (Goblins, Merfolk, Elves).Quote:
Originally Posted by Goblin Snowman
Scryb Rangers cost of 2 bothers me much.
For example: I won sunday against AggroLoam (Game 1) with 1 Land, 1 Hierarch, Survival + Critter in my opening hand.
I searched turn 3 for the Ranger and went nuts.
The entire game, i only had 2 lands (I drew the second very late) bit I still managed to win.
You often start with 1-2Land + Hierarch. Quirion Ranger shines there.
It's also nice to play stuff, untap Hierarch, play the land again. You will have 2 open manasources. If your opponent play something, just survival an Sprite, untap the Hierarch again and play it.
Or attack with Goyf, untap it into the opponents attacking creatures.
Ranger is so awesome preventing you from being screwed, wastelocked, getting overrun (Rhox War Monks is my favorite untap target ;) )
I could imagine testing Oriss as a 2-off in my sideboard. Since I play 1 Gaddock Teeg to survival for, I just would need 1 slot more.
Together with 1 Teferi (I test him main instead of the Angerslot), it could be a nice hardlock. But that would be only good against combo.
Against aggro this would last too long to be good.
Burn still can kill Oriss (the only option is to play Teferi EoT and directly Oriss, but that costs you UUUW3 against BURN)
Goblins do have Weirding, Sharpshooter+Fanatic, Terminate or Incinerator.
Zoo has burn, merfolk bounce.
Ok against elves, it would be great...but Spore Frog would do the same since they can't do anything against him.
So, where is Oriss better than Spore Frog?
Well, to be fair, Oriss can't be burned after his summoning sickness wears off.
With two burnspells, oriss can be killed.
Burn -> Ability -> Burn -> Kill.
I would simply not run it and stick to a more survival less dependent build. As for a nice sb card vs combo my options are MM,Teeg and Aven mindcensor.
I will test out quirion ranger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windux
Ichorid (to stop Dread Return), Aggro Loam (They are fine with digging for Assault), anything with Deed (Rock, UGB Threshold, etc.), anything with Humility, Stax, every combo deck, Sui/Pox, Nonblue Aggro in general......
I totally understand not wanting to run him. Just, you know, think about these statements before making them.
EDIT;
To elaborate a bit more on Oriss. Playing Oriss and attempting to use them alone to end the game is never going to work. It's rarely my first target for a Survival (Unless they have lethal damage, are about to combo off, or I suspect Humility/Deed). It serves as an excellent way to close the game, similar in purpose to Wonder. Once you drop him, the other player generally has 4 instant speed outs in their deck, whether Swords, Fireblast, or Snuff Out. Given that unless you're incredibly mana-screwed (in which case I question why you fetched Oriss to begin with) you should be able to get SS Sprite to negate the most common removal, and that Oriss protects against single burn already, they have a very limited window of time to draw a very specific set of cards. Sometimes you can achieve the same effect by fetching flying fatties and dropping them. Sometimes you can't. For 2-3 slots in your stack of 75, it tends to win me way more games than an additional War Monk or Venser or something would have.