[Deck] The Gate

@ jrsthethird -- I have been testing a deck very very similar to your BW one there...let me post it quickly

4 bitterblossom
3 Elspeth


2 Jitte
1 SoFI
1 Basilisk Collar

3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Dark Confidant
2 Jotun Grunt

4 StP
4 Vindicate

3 cabal therapy
4 Inquisition of Kozilek


22 Land


I know that it doesnt utilize Persecutor but I chose to go more controllish with Elspeth and a bit more discard. Jotun Grunt is a floater card, could make it Nighthawk for a try. 4 Vindicate may seem like a lot but it hits everything. Not having a sac effect sucks against shroud but if my discard slows them enough then blossom can block pretty well and jitte circumvents Iona. Stillmoon Cavalier may seem like a shit pick but I love it. It is resilient as hell and wears with SoFI is pretty much invincible.

@Oiolosse


you know thats a completely different deck right and has nothing to do with the gate right ?

:eyebrow:

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Originally Posted by denial

@Oiolosse


you know thats a completely different deck right and has nothing to do with the gate right ?

:eyebrow:

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of course :) -- I was responding to jrthethird

What's the reason for most of these lists not running a combination of Abyssal Persecutor and Tombstalker? I find that Stalker is a much better card than Dark Confidant (in this deck) because it makes a huge and immediate impact on the game. Also, i see it as an alternative because the two are rarely run together.

Hi folks,

first of all i want to thank Hollywood for sharing his creation. I loved the deck at first glance and last sunday i brought it to a legacy tournament with 40 people.

My english is not good and i have no too much time to write a reportage, but, yes, i did TOP 8 with the deck!

Round 1 vs Rock 2-0
Easy win

Round 2 vs Enchantress 2-1
Rough match. Nevinyrral's Disk is a must.

Round 3 vs sort of Rock 2-0
Easy win

Round 4 vs mono Red 2-0
I was thinking it would have been hard, instead thanks to Jitte, Vampire, discards and no fetch effects, i won.

Round 5 ID

Round 6 ID

Quarter finals vs same Enchantress 0-2
He wins game 1 easily. Post side i have good cards against him and hope to do the same i did before in swiss.
Game 2 i duress him and see 2 runed halo, 2 solitary confinement and replensih.
I chose replenish. He doesn't have WW for runed halo (he knows i have sadistic sacrament in sideboard) so i can cast the sorcery and may be i do the mistake to exile 3 of 4 winning conditions he has instead to choice 3 of 4 elephant grass that lock me hard if in play (what to do you think of this choice?).

During the game i make him discard almost all but he have time to cast runed halo on sadistic sacrament (which i drew...).

The game stalls for a while, with him at 3 and elephant grass and me with a lot of creatures and 2 dark confidant looking for Nevinyrral's Disk is... he can't mantain elephant grass, goes in top deck mode, and finds Replenish... game over with a bit of disappointment for me.

I posted this thread to share with you my list and make a couple of considerations:

Lands:

18 Swamp
3 Wasteland
1 Bojuka Bog

Creatures:

4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Dark Confidant

Spells:

3 Cabal Therapy
4 Smother
4 Duress
4 Diabolic Edict
3 Hymn to Tourach

Artifacts:

2 Umezawa's Jitte


Sideboard

2 Innocent Blood
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Perish
3 Nevinyrral's Disk
3 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Hymn to Tourach
2 Tendrils of Corruption (i would test Extirpate or even Shadow of Doubt !!! )

Variations respect to the lists i saw in this thread:

- 3 Wasteland instead of 4 because 3 black mana at turn 3 are important.
- Smother over Deathmark for the reasons that all already have expressed ...and instant speed over sorcery speed matters :)
- Diabolic Edict over Innocent Blood beacuse of instant speed and because it doesn't require me to sac a creature if i don't want
Furthemore, Smother and Diabolic avoid Chalice of the Void to 1 :)
- 3 Hymn to Tourach and 2 Jitte instead of 2 Hymns and 3 Jitte because i'm more scared of control and combo than aggro and because Hymn helps even against aggro

Sideboard is pretty common and self explicative, i have just 2 slots that i would tune up: maybe extirpate is a good cards to play now because i saw a lot of counterbalance decks (our discards are not enough, they play full sets of Sensei and Counterbalance) and thopter's combo decks...

Well, i would finish making some considerations to improve the deck :
- maybe 2-4 fetch lands instead of 2-4 swamps could (even if a little bit) make our late game draws better
- 2-3 mox diamonds could allow us to make some very good turns 1, like Confidant, Hymns, Duress+Cabal or turn 3 Abyssal... we should try them instead 2-3 swamps and see if it wastes our mana base...

I hope you understand what i wanted to say :)
Please comment my thoughts.

See you and thanks again to Hollywood,

Luigi.

@ Luigi:

Congratulations! A question:

How has Perish in the board worked out for you? In which matchups do you side it in? I have been testing Dystopia in the board, and am decently pleased with it. I will stick with it, for now.

What's your plan vs. zoo? My current build is quite similar to yours (it's posted a few posts back) and I feel like the Zoo matchup is right on the fence, as is Death & Taxes and UW Tempo. Dystopia definitely comes in in all three of these matchups. Just curious to hear your thoughts.

My current sideboard, for reference:

1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Thoughtseize
3 Dystopia
3 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void (Lots of reanimator in my local meta)
3 Sadistic Sacrament

Hi Chubu!,
thanks for the reply.

Perish is strong, Dystopia too:

Against fast zoo decks with Nactal, Tarmos, Knights (and Terravore!), perish it's usually a 2x1 or a 3x1. I've never tried Dystopia but it apparently can do the same for some life points, but it seems slow.

Against Death & Taxes probably Dystopia makes its work better (more white creatures than green).

Same for UW control decks (it gets rid of Elspeth, Humilty, Moat...).

Against Enchantress maybe Dystopia is too slow (they draw a lot and the can sacrifice minor enchantments), perish is not a must in this match up but i side it in anyway because i have no better cards... even if it destroy only one enchantress would be good. Mh...

Against Elves! perish is a must have.

We could continue to speak about these cards for a while... the answer is that it depends from the meta.

While i'm writing here on this post i'm just thinking that maybe Dystopia seems to represent a solution to some very critical situations (humilty, elspeth, moat...) but i have to say that for this i have Disks... instead Perish is good against cards that we should be able to manage in other ways...

Maybe Dystopia deserves one shot :)

What do u think about my suggestions in the previous posts about mox diamond and fetchs?

Regards,
Luigi.

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What do u think about my suggestions in the previous posts about mox diamond and fetchs?

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As far as using fetches to thin land is concerned, I'm not a fan. IMO, the improvement in draws (according to the stats) is so slight that it does not justify the life loss. That's me.

As far as Mox Diamond, I'm also not so sure. I feel like 22 lands is the minimum with this deck, and the card disadvantage with Mox Diamond would create some situations where we would mana-screw ourselves. If you were to cut some non-land cards for Mox Diamond, then it could work. Of course, you'd also be out some precious spells. I've noticed that Eva Green/Vesper Green builds tend to run about 21 lands, plus a full set of Rituals. You could cut 2 lands and 2 *somethings* for a set of Mox Diamonds, but I would hate even to cut the two *somethings*.

I played a 16-20 person Legacy weekly tournament last night and got stomped pretty bad. I lost round 1 to Lands, 0-2. I made a really stupid mulligan call game 2 when I kept a hand without Leyline. Ironically, this was the second time I have played this person, and the second time I have made a huge play mistake while playing against him. He probably thinks I'm a moron, at this point. ¡Ha!

Round 2 bye. :(

I lost round 3 to a very controlling build of Dorian Rock, running maindeck ensnaring bridge and Enlightened Tutors. 0-2

Round 4 I lost to New Horizons 2-1. My deck played beautifully all three games, feeding me lands when I needed them, spells when I didn't, and lots of hand disruption to take care of his permission spells. Both of my losses were due to Jace the Mind Sculptor, well, "Jace-ing" me. /Sad face/ /Tail between legs/

My overall record was 1-3 matches, 1-6 games. I dropped before round 5 and went home, to see if I could find any scraps of my self-esteem lost between the couch cushions, or something. At least all of my opponents were very friendly. :)

What's to learn from this? Well, Dystopia was not a bad sideboard call for the meta, but it was far from the best one, either. There were actually quite a few decks I could have beaten, I just didn't happen to play any of them. I agree that a board sweeper may be a sideboard necessity, but I'm actually debating going all the way and running Oblivion Stone. I have been Jace'd to death in one other match, and hand disruption is not always an adequate answer to Jace, as they can (and will) float one on top of the library with Brainstorm, Top, etc.

Any thoughts on Oblivion Stone vs. Nev's Disk? Both feel rather clunky and awkward to me, but such is the drawback, when one runs monoblack.

Has Hollywood given up on this deck? I hope not, I really wanted to see how this deck will evolve.

Bump.

So is anyone still testing with this? Is it turning out well? Not so well? Any reports, suggestions, ideas, anything?

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So is anyone still testing with this? Is it turning out well? Not so well? Any reports, suggestions, ideas, anything?

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Although I haven't had much success of late, I am still messing with the deck. My current list is posted on the last page, I believe. I have worked in room for 3 Hymn to Tourach, being my most significant change from the OP list. Also, I am running a 2-2 split of Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize, in place of Duress. I am very happy with that change. As far as fitting in Hymn goes, I am always happy to see a Hymn in the early game, although sometimes I feel that the deck is a bit light on threats. (I'm running 18.) I have lost some "should have won"-type matches lately, (R/B Gobs and Eva Green come to mind) which has frustrated me. I want a greater threat density, and am currently testing running only 3 Smother, in favor of a 4th Gatekeeper. I've also tested lists more along the tempo/pikula lines, some which splash white, some which do not. Rituals are nice, but I do not want to cut lands to fit them in, and therefore it means cutting precious spells.

Ultimately, I am going to put the deck down for a while, as-is, and pick it up again later. I do not feel as if the deck is Tier 1, but it remains hugely fun to play, and I do not want to frustrate myself trying to make a Tier 1 deck, when it is simply not going to happen. Cards that are really screwing me, lately, when they get played include:

Planeswalkers. I see new Jace from time to time, and his Fateseal ability often lets my opponent stall me long enough to ramp his ultimate. Ouch. I have been boarding Oblivion Stones, as a result.

Sword of Light and Shadow. No explanation necessary. With Stoneforge Mystic being quite prominent, this comes down more often than I'd like to see. (Which is never.) Again, Oblivion Stone.

Sower of Temptation. Dodges Smother/Deathmark, sort of "shuts off" our Edict effects, by giving the opponent a convenient sac. outlet. Really sucks when they take a Nighthawk.

Speaking of Nighthawks, this card has been one of the stars of the deck. I'm almost never bummed to topdeck one, and I feel like it is very worth inclusion as a 4-of. Frankly, it's just a fun creature to run, and I even like the artwork. Good job, designer(s) of this card.

Overall, I will keep this deck and run it from time to time. I think it has potential to win tourneys, depending on the luck of the matchups (duh), but is probably not going to be a DTB anytime in the near future. That's just fine with me. The deck is fun, competitive, and not nearly as expensive to build as many of the decks it can beat (Survival, Reanimator, Zoo, etc...) I also feel like it has surprisingly good game vs. many of the current DTB. Hell, I may even cut the Hymns and go back to a list I was running earlier, simply for the fun factor. (I miss Skeletal Scrying, and drawing three on turn 4.) Great deck for those (like me) for whom "fun" doesn't necessitate "Tier 1." I will continue to follow this thread and test cards that other people have tested and recommend. I like the archetype (monoblack aggro-control) quite a bit.

As a final note, I have piled almost 20 goblins in my opponent's yard, on a couple of occasions. This matchup has become a sort of "solitaire" for me, in testing. Anyone else care to weigh in with some numbers? ;-)

I've been messing around with version of this deck online (MTGO) for several weeks now and I love it. I might get flamed, but I splashed bayou to run tarmos and have access to sb cards like grip.

I think it shouldn't be abandoned, but I do think it might need some type of splash, although I'm not sure green is the way to go.

The problem I always find is a late TD discard spells is always unwanted and the deck doesn't seem to be fast enough at times. Maybe I am just missing blue, who knows.

Jace and SofLaS are all over the online meta so I see them being huge problems. I have put needles in sb to help with these issues.

I have no hard core testing data as most of my games are in the tournament practice room. I have won a few 2 man events but thats nothing to write home about.

I played around with it for a while but it just seemed to be not strong enough. Like Impin said, I felt like the deck was slow as well.

Edit: I'm toying around with a white splash, but its closer to Deadguy than the gate. I think the deck needs a splash though.

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Originally Posted by markbris

I played around with it for a while but it just seemed to be not strong enough. Like Impin said, I felt like the deck was slow as well.

Edit: I'm toying around with a white splash, but its closer to Deadguy than the gate. I think the deck needs a splash though.

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This deck is actually pretty effective without a splash ....my friend had been playing nothing but different versions of this deck for 3 years lol.

i suggest using Consuming Vapors ... its pretty good

In a format filled with brokenness (Ichorid, Reanimator, Belcher, hell even Elfcombo), I feel like this deck plays a little too fair and suffers for it. There is nothing at all explosive about anything the deck does (most builds don't even play Dark Ritual or Hymn for godsake), and really, I've found that it's not even all that synergic (it's creatures all clog the 3cc and 4cc slots unfortunately, which is a bummer).

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Originally Posted by Jon Stewart

In a format filled with brokenness (Ichorid, Reanimator, Belcher, hell even Elfcombo), I feel like this deck plays a little too fair and suffers for it. There is nothing at all explosive about anything the deck does (most builds don't even play Dark Ritual or Hymn for godsake), and really, I've found that it's not even all that synergic (it's creatures all clog the 3cc and 4cc slots unfortunately, which is a bummer).

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The list I've been running has 2 hymns, but I completely see your point. It is just a fancy turn your creature sideways and attack deck. When I do win it is many times without Persecutor anyways. I'd almost rather cut down on the creatures, run blue and dig for the deck's goodness and protect. Maybe it's the thresh player in me sneaking out! At that point you lose focus of the point of the deck however.

Oh and btw, it folds to Reanimator naming black.

I will be doing some more messing around with a list splashing some type of color.

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Originally Posted by ImpinAintEasy

Oh and btw, it folds to Reanimator naming black.

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That's precisely what I run Faerie Macabre for.

This is my first post here, although I followed the thread from the start - and I must say I LOVE it!
Anyway, my list is similar to Chubu!'s latest suggestion:

4x Abyssal Persecutor
2x Bitterblossom
4x Dark Confidant
3x Faerie Macabre
4x Vampire Nighthawk
-> 17 creature (21 with Gatekeeper)

2x Cabal Therapy
4x Duress
3x Hymn to Tourach
-> 9x discard

3x Diabolic Edict
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Innocent Blood
-> 10x sacc-removal

1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Umezawa's Jitte
-> 2x equipment

3x Wasteland
19x Swamp
-> 22x land

Some Notes:
- SoLaS instead of 2nd Jitte, because I tend to draw both equipment or none at all (and currently only have one of each)
- 3/3 of Blood and Edict, because I still can't decide which is better. Both have their pros and cons
- Bitterblossom - it's card advantage, isn't it?
- Duress > Inquisition, because most of the time I want them to discard key spells - creatures rarely stay on the 'field for a long time. But I do play 3-4 Inquisitions in the side.

I've been playing with the archetype a bit, as of late. I have been testing a couple of different lists, both without maindeck Hymn to Tourach. Why? I felt like the inclusion of Hymn was stretching the deck too thin. From the start, what made this deck fun to play for me was its removal. Kill creatures; kill lots of creatures, drop your own, turn them sideways, repeat. While Hymn is an amazing card, and rarely ever a "bad" card, per se, I felt as if I wasn't getting the mileage out of it that I'd hoped. After some testing, I have two rather different lists both with their respective strengths and weaknesses.

First, a more familiar list:
19 Swamp
4 Wasteland

4 Innocent Blood
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Executioner's Capsule

4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Smother

4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Faerie Macabre

4 Abyssal Persecutor

This list is the closer of the two to the lists suggested by the OP, Hollywood. Why Executioner's capsule as a 1-of? Well, it's a 1-drop, it's a headache for reanimator (which may have just ceased to exist as a commonly-played deck), and it's more removal. This list is strong vs. Thresh, New Horizons, Merfolk, Combo, Reanimator, etc... (Note that my board includes Leyline of the Void, Engineered Plague, Hymn to Tourach, Sadistic Sacrament, and Oblivion Stone.)

...and a somewhat different list:
11Swamp
8 Fetches
4 Wasteland

4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual

4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Jitte
3 Bitterblossom

2 Fleshbag Marauder

4 Abyssal Persecutor

4 Shriekmaw

3 Tombstalker

This list does away with Bob, due to lifeloss from the higher-cc cards, and his propensity to be removed before providing any card advantage. It runs no Smother, in favor of Shriekmaw. It runs Dark Rituals, to support its higher-cc duders and add the element of Ritual-fueled explosiveness that is one of the trademarks of black, as a color. It is stronger against Zoo and Countertop builds (somewhat,) but weaker vs. archetypes like New Horizons, Tribal, and Reanimator. Basically, it is a bit more like Pikula-type builds, but without Hymns or Sinkholes in the maindeck. The list is nowhere near optimized, but it represents an idea with which I have been experimenting. Basically, you just stall with removal until you can land a fatty, then you turn said fatty sideways a few times and then your opponent shakes your hand. That's the theory, at least... ;-)

I have also messed with splashing white, which basically led me back to black-splash Death & Taxes. (Black for Thoughtseize, Confidant, and Tidehollow Sculler,) green, which led to Eva-Green, and both, which led back to Rock. Basically, splashing a color fundamentally alters the balance of the list, to the point that it wants to change greatly, in order to maximize the resources available in the splashed color.

As far as current state of the deck goes, it's hard to tell. The banning of Mystical Tutor potentially eliminates two of the more common and stronger decks out there, (Reanimator and ANT) so time will tell where this deck will sit when the dust settles. I definitely feel as if we need a better answer to Zoo, in order to be competitive. (Perhaps, if reanimator falls from grace, we can cut maindeck Faerie Macabre for ????) Perish out of the board, while nice, isn't enough on its own to throw the balance of the match in our favor. And while the Zoo m/u isn't unwinnable, I feel as if it's definitely not in our favor.

Thoughts?

If you're running Fleshbag, Shriekmaw, and Innocent Blood with fetches you should consider Grim Discovery. Also, adding Phyrexian Rager provides for maximum abuse of Grim Discovery.

This is similar to what I'm doing in Standard, although in that format the speed is slightly more forgivable, and I use Wall of Omens to gain massive card advantage with Grim Discovery, which I suppose would be an option in a W-splash build.

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Originally Posted by AlterEgo

That's precisely what I run Faerie Macabre for.

This is my first post here, although I followed the thread from the start - and I must say I LOVE it!
Anyway, my list is similar to Chubu!'s latest suggestion:

4x Abyssal Persecutor
2x Bitterblossom
4x Dark Confidant
3x Faerie Macabre
4x Vampire Nighthawk
-> 17 creature (21 with Gatekeeper)

2x Cabal Therapy
4x Duress
3x Hymn to Tourach
-> 9x discard

3x Diabolic Edict
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Innocent Blood
-> 10x sacc-removal

1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Umezawa's Jitte
-> 2x equipment

3x Wasteland
19x Swamp
-> 22x land

Some Notes:
- SoLaS instead of 2nd Jitte, because I tend to draw both equipment or none at all (and currently only have one of each)
- 3/3 of Blood and Edict, because I still can't decide which is better. Both have their pros and cons
- Bitterblossom - it's card advantage, isn't it?
- Duress > Inquisition, because most of the time I want them to discard key spells - creatures rarely stay on the 'field for a long time. But I do play 3-4 Inquisitions in the side.

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This list came in 2nd in a tournament recently, was it you? :)

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36613