Might we see more MoM.dec? It combos with Grim Monolith + Stroke as well. Hitting UUUU is hard though. I can see some control decks playing these cards and back it up with a combo win via MoM.
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Might we see more MoM.dec? It combos with Grim Monolith + Stroke as well. Hitting UUUU is hard though. I can see some control decks playing these cards and back it up with a combo win via MoM.
Turn one : Chrome Mox, Ancient Tomb, Priest of Gix, New Lich?
If I were to utilize this, it would be pretty simple; play a deck with 61+ cards in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
You can't try to combo out for a win condition, because your opponent gets to draw their deck too. I don't want to have to play through 3-4 FoW, 3-4 Daze, and 4 Mindbreak Trap when I am trying to win. That's a recipe for disaster, and it's generally a bad idea to get into a pissing match about who has more counters and disruption.
But flat out decking your opponent? That's a much more reasonable idea that your opponent really can't do anything about short of a Krosan Grip. If you start out with slightly more cards in your deck (or even if you play a mana base without Fetchlands and gamble on probability), you can just cast MoM and combo out on the spot for the win.
This is actually not a bad idea at all. As I mentioned regarding Lich, few decks pack maindeck artifact or enchantment removal, which means your game 1 could be pretty easy. You would need the right cards to supplement the strategy; defense against aggro and disruption.
Turn 1: Sea, Duress/Thoughtseize
Turn 2: Ancient Tomb, Bell with Daze/FoW backup.
Turn 3: Tutor for MoM (or Bell) with Enlightened Tutor.
Turn 4: Accelerate into MoM. Win.
The real beauty of the design? Enlightened Tutor gets the missing piece. This is the theory behind the CounterTop Thopters deck, and it could be the theory behind this one. 6 mana is a lot, but it does win you the game on the spot provided your low-costed Bell is already out there.
If anyone is interested in discussing such a deck in more detail, feel free to message me. I think it is a highly viable idea.
-ktkenshinx-
Painter - Grindstone is so much better (even if the parts are maybe worse on their own) and it's nothing spectacular, i don't think this has merit at all. To be honest, i think MoM is just a bad card nowadays. Also there were already some cards that tapped for card draw, so this isn't exactly "new".Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
And i don't think the card is worse than Mine. Being able to decide when to get the card is well worth the 1 in the format that would play mine.
holy fuck! Show and Tell -> MoMa.
Painter can get killed with any of the maindecked removal spells in response to a Grindstone activation (Bolt, Chain, Path, Swords). That's a big problem, and makes you combo out on your opponent's terms instead of your own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64
As to cards that tap to draw, there really aren't as many as you claim. Sure, there are a bunch of creatures, but we all know how vulnerable those are. As to noncreatures? Noncreatures that cost 3 mana or less? Noncreatures that cost 3 mana or less AND do not require an activation cost other than a tap? Gatherer didn't find any for me, so let me know if your search turns up any alternatives.
Besides, in the past the MoM strategy has involved drawing cards to find your win condition, or generating mana to cast a spell. Never before, to my knowledge, was it decking your opponent.
Temple Bell + Mind Over Matter is a DECKING combo, not a draw engine combo.
I will stick by this interpretation of the combo, as it strikes me as the most efficient, the most resilient, and the fastest.
-ktkenshinx-
Why not just play Stroke and Monolith, Stroke your opponent for the win?Quote:
Originally Posted by ktkenshinx
Assuming you are also using Temple Bell as part of this, your opponent is drawing cards too. That means more Force of Will and Daze for you to play through, maybe even some Misdirection. I would rather go with the straight up decking approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
As has been pointed out, rolling with a single Progenitus or Emrakul is the way to go here. You won't deck yourself, but you will deck your opponent. Better yet would be Darksteel Colossus, which never actually hits the graveyard, rendering it immune to graveyard hate. Simply discard DSC and put it back into your deck, then tap the bell. Repeat and rinse. Even if your opponent has more cards in their deck than you, you will still have the DSC cycling in and out of your hand and library.
-ktkenshinx-
Apparently there is a card called 'Sword of Body and Mind' but only the name has been spoiled. Speculation??
Sword of Body and Mind :3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +2/+2 and has protection from creatures and spells.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may put a +1/+1 counter on it.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, until end of turn, all of your instant and sorcery spells cost :1: less to cast.
Equip :2:
EDIT: On a more serious note, if it's templated like the Sword of X and Y duo in Darksteel, it's probably pro: green and artifacts, with a "this doesn't cause this equipment to fall off" clause on the protection. I'll agree with Nihil that making 1/1 artifact tokens (Myr, maybe) seems fine, and the green bit will probably be a pump of some sort.
I think I love you.Quote:
Originally Posted by mchainmail
Sounds like the green vs. artifact piece I (and certainly many others) would have liked to complete the Sword of Fire and Ice / Sword of Light and Shadow cycle. Which, in such a case, may very well be seeing a reprint.
The most obvious candidate for the artifact trigger would most be creating an artifact creature token or fetching artifacts from the library - nearly anything else would 'feel' associated with some colour. The green trigger could be putting +1/+1 counters on a creature, some type of mana acceleration, or creating a creature token if the artifact trigger doesn't already do so.
EDIT: Wait, it's from Scars, not M11. So yeah, a full enemy pairs cycle (where this is U/G) seems then more likely than a new one + reprints.
It's a preview card from Scars of Mirrodin - which means more Sword goodness. It's probably the pro blue & green one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
Add Show and Tell as suggested above for faster MoM and you have a sexy back-up plan with fatties.Quote:
Originally Posted by ktkenshinx
The problem is, we already have a pro: blue one (Sword of Fire and Ice). We're just missing green and artifacts/colorless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Colorless actually seems more interesting given the theme of Rise of the Eldrazi, Wizards' love for cross-block synergy, and a couple other corner-case interactions (can't be blocked by Mutavault, YAUS).
Also, the new Bell + MoM combo is worse than Painter-Servant. I mean, at bare minimum it costs :5::u: as opposed to :6:, and if you don't have Show and Tell it costs :5::u::u::u::u:, which is beyond terrible.
Right. Because that plans been working out so well for Dream Halls.dec.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Considering how popular the first two swords were, I wouldn't be suprised if they made the rest of the enemy color combinations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
Servant can be killed in response to a Grindstone activation by one of the many maindecked kill spells in the format. There are currently no decks, at least not tier 1, that maindeck artifact or enchantment removal in any serious quantity (with ONE exception, that being Zoo, and that being a strike against both decks, not just this one).Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
As to the mana cost, if spread out over two turns, this does not become a problem. A turn 2-4 Bell into a turn 4-5 MOM is a perfectly viable play, especially because you can win on the spot. Technically speaking, Ad Nauseam + Tendrils is a 5BBBB mana kill, but that obviously is not a strike against it. The deck that housed this combo would certainly be able to accomodate its high mana cost whether through hard acceleration like Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, and Grim Monolith, or through virtual acceleration like Show and Tell.
As to the similarities to Dream Hall that morgan_coke brings up, they really are different decks. They have different vulnerabilities and different play styles. Its win condition is also not as lethal as the MOM+Bell one.
-ktkenshinx-
I am intrigued by this idea, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter!Quote:
Originally Posted by Malchar
Bell and MoM doesn't need another card to go with it if you have more must counters than your opponent, enough cards left to do what you want to do, and have a sure-fire way to get rid of Counterbalance if your opponent is playing it.
Permanent Waves may have just found a card that it can use to beat control - assuming it can assemble the two cards together. Bell should be crazy good against control on its own anyway.
EDIT: Scratch the above statement - sorry.
The best thing about Temple Bell, from my perspective, is that I suspect they would not print TWO 3 mana permanents which cause all players to draw a card in the same set. This would indicate that Jace the Mind Sculptor is in M11. I could be wrong, but I hope not.