[Deck] Dragon Stompy

I don't see how Priest could replace some other of our threats as he just ain't one... you are just getting a 2/1 for no cost basically, that's it. FAIL

Regarding Metamorph, I wouldn't consider him for MD as he doesn't fit the scheme of DS of disrupting and attacking with bomby creatures. He just acts in response to our opponent, also having him in MD against say Merfolk, Goblin and decks with less creature count is like 'okey, I've got this. Now what?'

The reasons above are also valid for Revoker, acting in response when many times you don't have something in order to respond to ain't my best deck choice...

This other card, the 3/1 first strike doesn't solve many of our problems and isn't a bomby. Also, difficult to find him a space when having many far better creatures to choose.

On the other hand, the ONE card I'd consider is the new Dragon. A great balance between stability and attack


As where I see it, DS works better with no 5cc cards. I've been stuck many times becouse of that fact and hasn't worked for me. Basically, the biggest problem I see in DS is it's lack of stability so cutting 5cc cards solves a great deal of this, also does removing swords for ratchet bomb. We already have big creatures than win on their own, swords for me is win-more. But ratchets make the deck more stable and can also clean the board from threats we cannot deal in any other way.


So my list would be like this:

// Creatures 23
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
2 Moltensteel Dragon

// Spells 18
2 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Seething Song

// Lands 19
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain

In my meta there are many merfolk and goblins... I've also been playing with Flametongue Kavu with great results, but now I've cut them to make room for the new dragons

With chalice, ratchet bomb, lord of shatterskull, red planeswalker, Jitte, taurean mauler, is there any chance the draw 2 cards and proliferate or deal 3 damage and proliferate, are playable? Maybe in red stax with smokestack etc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guidogulp

I don't see how Priest could replace some other of our threats as he just ain't one... you are just getting a 2/1 for no cost basically, that's it. FAIL

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No benefit? He provides something for Dragon Stompy that the deck needed desperately. That something is free mana fixing. God only knows how many times I've needed more one source of red mana in play and not gotten it. The Priest converts your colorless mana from Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors into the red mana we desperately need.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

No benefit? He provides something for Dragon Stompy that the deck needed desperately. That something is free mana fixing. God only knows how many times I've needed more one source of red mana in play and not gotten it. The Priest converts your colorless mana from Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors into the red mana we desperately need.

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AND does it with the benefits of a body! That holds a sword!

Anyway wht do u cut to make room, I don't see anything worse than the Priest as to cut it from DS...

I think the Moltensteel Dragon kinda sucks. Covetous Dragon is better, and I dislike that card. Casting this for four mana against aggro is the same as nailing your own coffin shut since you just paid 4 life for a 4/4.

Ok so here goes of my tournament report of today:


First matchup: UW Superfriends Control

Game1 : I lose dice roll which bothers me alot in this matchup, going for a straight hand with arc slogger, chalice, ssg, mox, tomb, mountain and another chalice. He plays Island, top and passes. I know that he usually plays ANT combo, so i go with Chalice for 1 + Chalice for 0.
After I pass, he tells me that against his combo deck this would have been auto win probably.
I feel the sudden need to knock my head against the table for the big mistake i had done to begin with by keeping this hand against a control deck. Whatever, he goes for second turn Counterbalance. I topdeck a second Slogger and front him with the first one. I went the full risk for running into daze because i never saw that list with daze ever. So he doesn't daze and he also doesn't see force. Phew. In his next turn he yawns about the chalice disabling his swords, giving me a grin. But damn! He just O-rings the slogger while topping for other solutions.
Ok im thinking, i got a second one ready and he cant sword or balance it. So I topdeck a mountain and try the second slogger. He tops into a force finally and i pass my turn.
Now jace hits the field. I topdeck a dragon, want to play it and suddenly his counterbalance reveals Elspeth. D'oh. Now the game is sealed and i only keep topdecking crap which gets easier to handle from turn to turn.
Out: -3 Lodestone Golem, -all 5 Equips
In: 3 Ratchet Bomb, 1 moon, 4 Revokers(could've boarded anarchy but nvm)

Game 2:
Now this is getting handy. I draw into first turn accelaration + multiple moon effects and decide to keep it for going all in. So i go off with something like Tomb, Mox and Magus.
Magus resolved. Nice. He plays a fetchland and goes for top and passes.
I insurance myself by playing another Blood Moon, still not getting forced.
So Magus starts to beat from turn to turn while he tries desperatly to find one of his 8 Islands.
In the middle of the game he gets hands on a plain and plays an enchantment that makes Enchantments and artifacts cost 2 more to play with the option of sacrificing it to destroy one of those. Okay thats fine with me. Magus gets supported by a hardcast SSG and in the lategame i play Revoker on his Enchantment, beating for the win next turn. Nice.
Out: -4 Chalice
In: Pyroblast

Game 3:
He starts with Tundra, Top. I go off with a mountain, go.
He aims for Counterbalance which I pyroblast smoothly. In my turn i go for gathan raiders and hellbent. He goes for shackles. I go for another topdecked Raiders and bash with the first.
The raiders get to bash him at 7 next turn(here i started to topdeck lands every turn), but then i cant believe my eyes as I see Kitchen Finks(o.O). And another Kitchen FInks(O.o). And Elspeth(O.O). Well you guys should know by know how the further matchup went, as i had no creature upcoming and my life slowly but sure went away.

1-2

Kinda hard losing the first game, but whatever.

2nd Matchup: MERFOLK!! (ARGHH)

Game1: He starts with Cursecatcher. Since i mulliganed to 5 i went with 1st turn Gathan Raiders having 2 arc sloggers in hand. Sigh. Everything else doesnt matter anymore as the blue dudes just swarm me for good.
Out: 2 moon, 4 magus, 3 slogger, 2 swords
In: 3 Ratchet Bomb, 4 Pyroblasts, 4 revoker

Game2: I still get the creeps when i replay this matchup in my mind.
I start with mountain hoping to pyroblast his cursecatcher. He goes for Aether Vial. ARGH.
Now i screw pyroblast into a mox and go for gathans. I run straight into a Daze. Could have thought of that, but nvm. He plays Silvergill Adept and passes. I draw another mox, i throw my 2nd pyroblast in it and go for seething, Jitte+ topdecked dragon. Next turn he doesnt do much. I topdeck my 2nd jitte. Now i get to swing with jitte on an unhellbent dragon. On his turn he looks at my exile and starts to laugh. Then he plays an Enchantment for U on my dragon with cumulative upkeep 1 to put the dragon under his control. ARGH. In response i removed my jitte counters killing his only 2 merfolks. But nvm, he beats me with my own dragon, plays a coralhelm commander out of vial and plays a standstill. Now im completly screwed. I topdeck nothing but lands except the one turn before dieing, laying a revoker on his vial way to late.

1-4

Now this result fucks my day up somehow, but there are still 2 rounds to go.
But i guess i really deserved it for my bad tongue about Jaya in DS.

3rd Matchup: Monored Burn(a good friend playing with my own burn deck)

Game1: He wins dice roll and goes off with Figure of Destiny.
I play Ancient Tomb, Chalice 1. He gives me that look that shows i screwed his whole hand lol.
He pumps his figure to 2/2, suspends a rift bolt and attacks. I go for seething song, arc slogger, still having enough acceleration for burning his Figure in my turn. He plays a third mountain and goes for browbeat. I let him draw.
I go for Lodestone Golem. Arc slogger swings for 4.
He topdecks and already passes. I beat with Golem and Slogger and activate slogger 3 times.
With 1 life he just topdecks and scoops.
In/Out: Come on.. Nothing xD

Game2: He goes off with Goblin Guide, giving me lots of headache before chalice 1.
Now he plays Incinerate on me or something, swinging with the guide again. No land for me again, but i see lodestone golem. I draw and play him to stop goblin guide immediately.
He kinda acknowledges that things are going really bad for him as he goes off with a fireblast at golem already. I play another one. HAHAHAHA. I play SoBM and equip it on same turn, swinging for 7 and mill his 4 flamebreaks lol. He only draws crap, not regenerating from his fireblast. Game.

3-4

4th and last matchup: Enchantress. Now this is getting interesting.

Game1: I start with an uber hand containing 2 Seething Songs, 2 Arc Sloggers and luckily even enough acceleration to go off with turn 1 slogger. He stumbles upon the big animal i just casted, but goes off with Elephant grass. I play the second slogger. He goes for enchantress and in the next turns he just cant protect himself against this brute force of awesomeness.
Out: 2 moon, 1 magus, 5 equip
In: 3 Anarchy, 3 Ratchet Bomb

Game2: He goes off with Forest, go. I play a Lodestone Golem 1st turn.
He draws and passes. I play RPD for 5 mana and bash with Golem. He goes for a sterling grove.
From this point i dont remember too well how the match went, but he managed to get a ghostly prison online and the next turn this white enchantment that protects him from damage at all. He O-rings my Chalice set on 2. He gets his Token generator online.
In the meantime i had Lodestone Golem, Arc Slogger and 2 hellbent RPDs online.
Now in the next turn i hope to topdeck anarchy sooo damn bad as it would just win the game.
Meh, just a ratchet bomb. But better than nothing. So I blast all his 4/4 tokens away with ratchet bomb, hoping he will give me another turn to topdeck anarchy. But damn, he already had his 15 mana to hardcast emrakul and we go for game 3.
Game 3: I keep a pretty nice hand with Arc Slogger, Seething Song, Acceleration, and Chalice. I go with Chalice 1 and pass. He draws and passes. I play Arc Slogger and shoot once. He goes for Sterling Grove and passes. I play a second arc slogger and swing with the first. He plays Ghostly Prison and cancels my next turn win by that. Ok fine with me, so i just play a topdecked Lodestone and pass. He O-rings my Chalice and plays elefant grass. MEH, now that is evil. I hope to topdeck anarchy to prevail his upcoming white bomb, but i dont. But to my surprise he just topdecks and then clears the field. Nice.

End Result: 6-4

Pros: First and Second Turn Lodestone is a HOUSE. I didn't miss Trinisphere in a single game.
Arc Slogger was surprisingly good in the stock of 3. I'm sure he made my games against Enchantress like noone else. Pyroblast and Anarchy in the side also gave me a good feeling, even though they didnt do anything in the end. But just having them is totally urgent.
Cons: Equip, Blood Moon. I boarded them out more often than i thought i would, but they were not good in some matchups. Mostly equip got cut because there was no green threat to slice through. Ratchet bomb was a better choice i think. And jitte screwed me up for topdecking one while having one ingame already, but i guess i can live with that one in a million case. And i didnt see dragon against control, which would have saved me. AND I HATE MERFOLK LIKE HELL, WHY DO HAVE TO PLAY AGAINST THE ONLY MERFOLK DECK IN THIS FRIGGING TOURNAMENT?? But yeah, thats just my luck.

The list i was playing:

10 Mountains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Arc Slogger
4 Magus of the Moon
2 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Umezawas Jitte

SB:
4 Pyroblast
3 Anarchy
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Blood Moon

Good to see you're at least testing with Lodestone. I'm still against it, but since you're using it to replace Trinisphere, I can understand your incentive. Trinisphere can be a pretty disappointing card sometimes.

Do you think Ratchet Bomb is needed? It's a versatile card, but I think its versatility clouds the fact that it's so goddamn slow. In your Enchantress game, you only used it to wipe his Angel tokens, only to delay the inevitable until he Emrakul-Walked you for the win. Even if you were able to get it to 3 counters, that's enough time to for Enchantress to find an answer. I really think Ratchet Bomb is just too reactive a card for Dragon Stompy. Even if you can charge it up to a few counters, you don't really want to wait that long to answer your opponent's board.

I know your concern about Ratchet Bomb, because there are just 2 sides of the medal.
First of all its a super awesome answer to everything with converted mana cost up to 4. Its godlike against a previous turn resolved Empty the Warrens. Its awesome against Elspeth Tokens which just ruin the day without an evasion beater. And theres always something it will hit when you decide to board it.
But Ratchet bomb being the only answer just stinks if: Your Enemy counters it, your enemy plays around it like letting you nuke and then play 2nd goyf or whatever, if its only a short and temporary solution when something even worse will come up, and when its just to late to topdeck it.

its a pretty nice allrounder solution, but after this tournament i would say Pyroclasm/Pyrokinesis might be better in many matchups.

ratchet bomb is the best of what is available for what it does. Powder keg was considered a staple for a long time - and bomb is much, much better.

Also, I would find something better to run than Feast and Famine. Probably +1 Sword of Body and Mind and when it comes out +1 sword of War and Peace if you want to keep your equipment count the same. It's really just a sub par equipment compared to the likes of the other swords

You could stick with songs- no swords and bigs or priests and equipment. I prefer priests and equipment because equipment turns my priests, revokers, magus and simian spirit guides into threats. I've found that if we don't stick chalice or chalice is answered, the deck is incredibly weak to removal. By saturating the field with weenies and equipment, they can't plow all of them and you should be able to run them over with equipped weenies.

Moltensteel is much better than covetous. Covetous is a conditional dragon as you must have an artifact. We have quite a few but its very risky if your lone artifact gets blown and you lose the dragon. 5cc is also alot of mana, so you expect covetous to come down turns 3-4 in a deck without song. Moltensteel can come down turns 2-3 (a full turn earlier) and start blocking, negating the lifeloss. This IMO makes it better than shatterskull too when often my problem is after dropping him, I still cannot block 3/3 cats or folk. Even worse, shatter skull is boltable.

Most importantly by the time moltensteel lands, you should have poked your opponent enough to drop him to 13-14(along with his fetches) you can immediately kill him the turn after with a moltensteel with 3-4 mana and pitching 10-12 life before he can stabilize. Since you cant kill moltensteel with bolt, stp will probably be the most likely removal. So once you all in on the dragon, you can recover plenty of life if he is answered. So no downside there.

With Priest in the deck, Trini seems like an automatic 3-4of in the deck again, or what do you think?

I am trying to develop a new list, but its just too tight to fit in all the good new stuff without losing that much "screw-parts"

Also I think Gathan need to go now, as this deck is really too tight now... We can't cut RPD because he is just too unfair.

Also I think that at least 4 [or5] Equipments are needen now, as Magus7SSg/Priest and Revoker are all on the small side, while the Dragons are oor only true finishers. [besides Metamorph, if I can find the space] =P

I have did some theoretical testing and will probably run this list:

The Screw:
4 Moon
4 Magus
4 Chalice
4 Revoker

The Beasts:
4 Gathan
4 RPD
2 Moltensteel

Mana/Dudes:
4 Priest
4 SSG

Equip:
2 Jitte
2 SOBAM

Lands/Mox:
4 Chrome
4 Tomb
4 City
10 Mountains

Did some conceptual testing of Metamorph against tribal... it was the sucks. :( Also, metamorph is just crappy against KOTR since your kotr is tiny. Metamorph is also not pitchable to mox. I want to have 24 pitchable cards to be absolutely comfortable so we are forced to play Gathan raiders. I'll probably be rocking this list when the stuff gets released. @ Trinis, can't find the space, there are too many non-red cards already, I don't think we can afford them unless you want cut moltensteel/equip which I think is unwise. This list has 26 dudes, wow like half the deck carries equipment, I like!

So Metamorph is really that bad??? =(

That card looked so awesome in theory... q.Q


I just could test the Priests and I liked them a lot... First Turn Priest into anything is a win/win Situation, even if they counter him, you keep your screw for the next turn. 2+ Priests is pure awesomeness in highest form. Moltensteel was the next I wanted to test... Is it really THAT good? I hope he is, at least he has some kind of pseudo- Hatred in it =D

I really like your list, the only thing I am missing is Trinis. but I don't see any cutable except Gathans / 1 off Priest... I agree with you, that 4 Equipment is the absolute minimum. [SoB&M still rocks the house]

The problem is that if you cut Gathan, your red count drops to 20. :( It's like playing mox diamond with just 20 lands, not a good idea! Really increases your mull rates. Sad, there are just so many good non-red cards to play. I was playing a 2-2 metamorph gathan split but mulligan decisions forced me back to a full set of gathan. So now Metamorph is fighting for slots with Moltensteel and equipment. Sadly I'd rather have equipment and moltensteels. What about cutting 1 moltensteel for the 5th equip? Whats the best 5th equip? Another SOBAM? Or another Jitte? Or should we just totally do away with moltensteels and play 3 Jitte, 3 SOBAM?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NecroYawgmoth

So Metamorph is really that bad??? =(

That card looked so awesome in theory... q.Q

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No. Metamorph is awesome. He is fattie removal of all sources, which the deck has always needed. 3 mana for a goyf when your opponent has a goyf is PRETTY GOOD I THINK. If your lock game is tight they shouldnt have the counterspells to waste on a shit creature like that anyways. I would strongly recommend running somewhere between 4 and 8 copies of him and that fucking colorless vendetta they gave us god damn that cards sick
-Slay

PS: happy holidays!

If I'd play a 5th Equiment, I think it would be the 3rd Jitte... On the other hand... SoB&M pushes our small dudes... I have no experience with Moltensteel right now, so I can't say if he is better than Equipment. I think 6-8 Equipment builds could be too much, as we would get outtempoed by removal, but I just don't know... We really have some hard task to do now for finding out the ideal Nr of Red cards [Metalwalker statistics, please =P], and the right split for Equipment.



And I can't get that Priest into Trini first turn get away off my head... it seems so good not to play =(


oh, and btw... too bad, that Sword of W&P is so bad for us =(

The good think about it is that SOWP is terrible in general, so people won't be running it. :) Jitte is Legendary though, so drawing multiples is pretty bad. In addition you don't always have Gathan to pitch Jitte and it might mess up your hellbent. I played 3 Jittes 1 Sofi for the longest time, but in the end, settled for the 2-2 split. However without songs, Jitte seems easier to cast and equip. I'll give it a test.

Actually the tempo problem with Equipment is a good arguement. Too many is a pain as drawing more than 1 is bad. Too little, means your weenies may be too small. I think 4 is probably the right number, along with 2 Moltensteels/Metamorph/Colourless removal. I'm leaning more towards Moltesteel now as it's good in almost every MU. He is a 1 turn clock against combo/control and can block against aggro the turn it comes down. Metamorph is great VS Bant or decks with goyf but bad against tribal, combo and control. The colourless removal spell seems awesome honestly, dodges Chalice and just takes down any creature we care about. Aggro is by far our worst MU, so maybe the colourless removal spell is the right call?

So the last two slots for me should be Moltensteel vs Dismember. Moltensteel seems better in general but Dismember makes a strong case for that slot. The advantages of dismember are huge, it provides such a big tempo swing. Running 2 is probably enough because drawing double + ancient tomb pain is gonna be an issue. Since our curve is lower, dismember maybe the right call. We now have more answers to Lackey/Noble heirarch on the Draw (the ultimate nightmare). I think playing up to 3 maybe an even better idea. Maybe cut a priest?

BTW what about all in red? Remember the Extended deck based on Dragon Stompy? There are an infinite number of Red rituals now. Here's my wack at it:

The Screw:
4 Moon
4 Magus
4 Trini

The Mana:
4 Song
4 SSG
4 Geosurge
4 Priest
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal

The Wins:
4 Burning Wish
3 Empty the Warrens
4 Deus of Calamity

Lands:
4 Tomb
4 City
5 Mountains

I guess the plan of the deck is to T1 Hate piece followed by a T2 All in to get one of the win conditions down. Trini is betten than Chalice in this case as you get protection from counterspells!

Suppose there is 1 Mox in the opening 7 (60-card-deck), and mull decision will be made when less than 2 certain type (Land for Mox Diamond, Non-land, non-artifact for Chrome Mox) of cards are there, the list shows the number of such type of cards you put in the deck VS the probability of a mull.

Card Mull index
30 2.4%
29 3.2%
28 4.2%
27 5.5%
26 7.1%
25 9.1%
24 11.5%
23 14.5%
22 18.1%
21 22.4%
20 27.6%

Obviously, the more card you run, the lower chance you get screwed. 24 is no magic numbe, but 90% of the time you will be content with it. Also, the margin is down below 3% if you keep increasing card counts from there. Note this is a very rough model as you probably will keep a Ancient Tomb, Chalice, Mox, Moon, Revoke, Sword, Mountain hand.

Topdecking Priest of Urabask into empty hand can cause some frustration, but if you have Kargan Dragonlord out, it becomes a little better. I believe Priest will be a nice replacement for Seething Song in case you don't want to run 5cc cards and lower deck's curve.
Also looks great with equips of all kind, but I'm still pretty sceptic about equips in this deck 'cause Sword-of-Whatever does nothing wihtout creature.
Although there is an interesting one in New Phyrexia:

Quote:

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Batterskull :5:
Artifact - Equipment
Living weapon
Equipped creature gets +4/+4 and has vigilance and lifelink.
:3:: Return Batterskull to its owner's hand.
Equip :5:

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It offers some nice possibilities in mid-late game.
Will try this list:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon

4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Kargan Dragonlord
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Priest of Urabask
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
2 Batterskull