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With all due respect, but this list should be discussed in the Dreadstill Thread, as it is basically Ub Dreadnought splashing white for Swords and Mother. Stoneblade is a a little bit slower deck that is built on SFM and Jace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Buddha
I'm starting to get the impression that the LS package is there solely to beat the mirror - not deal with actual hard matchups like Maverick. There might be some games in which the tempo of going Discard/removal/LS-flashback might eek out a win against an average Maverick draw, but most of the time there's no way to close the gap once Knight of the Reliquary starts doing its thing.
Thoughts?
I haven't played this deck a lot yet, but have been playing Maverick for ages now. To me it seems, all LS does in this matchup is try to get counters on Jitte asap, so you have a chance against Mother of Runes. Other than that, LS shouldn't really cause problems for Maverick. One could argue for being able to chump block Knight several times, but that only actually helps in case youve got the Jace+Removal/Counter to back it up.
The stoneblade matchup still revolves around Mother of Runes sticking (almost impossible to win if you untap w/ Mother of Runes) , but Lingering Souls does provide reasonable blockers for Jace.
U/W Stoneblade - Jace has to bounce Knight.
Esper Stoneblade - Chump giant green man with tokens, brainstorm some more. You can go find Wastelands but the Stoneblade player will be able to brainstorm into more land easily.
In the matches I have played this has happened a few times and is the other extent of Lingering Souls in the preboard matchup outside of the Jitte/token interaction mentioned bfore.
Post-board it all becomes about sideboard cards anyway. Stoneblade can't beat a Choke that sticks and Maverick gets blown out by Perish provided the Stoneblade player has any reasonable follow-up.
Yes, I forgot to mention for the Game 1 scenario. SB games favor Stoneblade due to Perish being much better than Wrath in traditional UW lists. It also gets around the Gaddock Teeg issue.
Playing a 2nd Jitte is a good idea for this deck for that matchup as well.
...good question. I've looked over the list in the opening post and saw a list with 18 lands, so I accidently thought this is a Tempo thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalwalker
I can't speak for the Maverick decks, but the 2nd Jitte in the board for the mirror is a must (I would do the same in Maverick, maybe not some of the more other white-heavy equipment decks since you usually have access to Manriki-Gusari).Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Stillmoon Cavalier seems pretty gross as well but I don't know if it is better or worse than a second Zealous Persecution, probably not. Too narrow.
Hi, I've recorded some rounds with this deck on Magic Online, with comments in english:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ingering-Souls
From my experience, LS was awesome against RUG delver. But the Maverick match hasn't really improved at all (apart from perish). Grove/punishing fire seemed like such a beating without wasteland.
I think I'd rather have Virtue's Ruin against Maverick. Should make for the way harder blowout. Right now I consider going down to 1 Perish, upping to 2 Virtue's Ruin.
Virtue's Ruin certainly kills a few more creatures, but on the other hand: Thrun.
;)
I think boarding some number of Explosives, Perish and -1/-1 Effects is probably best, this way you cover all your bases and aren't dead against some ridiculous Hexproof nonsense.
I don't like relying on EE when they've got Gaddock. But I keep forgetting about the -1/-1 effects that deal with Mother of Runes. Though...good point, I think I'll stick with 2 Perish.
Either Perish or Virtue's Ruin pretty much wreck Maverick when played at a clutch time. Each has its benefits and shortcomings - but the purpose is mostly the same: 3 mana Wrath. EE is mainly used to remove Hierarchs/Mother of Runes in the early game and provide another removal spell for Umezawa's Jitte/SFM/Scavenging Ooze.
Spot removal should be used against Mother of Runes, Knights, and Ooze (if you're playing with a heavy reliance on Snapcaster Mage and/or Lingering Souls). Everything else is relatively harmless.
Perish is easily the pick for the deck over Virtue's Ruin because of what it does for you in three other tier one matchups (where Virtue's Ruin is a real blank).
The Punishing Fire matchup is actually pretty bad, but Maverick decks don't run the Groves (the real problem) in the same numbers as other Punishing Fire decks so if you can focus on keeping Knights from untapping at the expense of anything else, you can sometimes steal preboard games. The post-board fights are still about fighting off Choke, finding and resolving your sideboard bombs, and leaning heavily on your equipment package.Quote:
From my experience, LS was awesome against RUG delver. But the Maverick match hasn't really improved at all (apart from perish). Grove/punishing fire seemed like such a beating without wasteland.
I tuned this from the GP winning list so far I have been having pretty good results
60 cards
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 wasteland
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 glacial fortress
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
3 Force of Will
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 thoughtseize
1 Intuition
3 Lingering Souls
2 Ponder
1 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 cabal therapy
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vindicate
1 batterskull
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard
1 Darkblast
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Force of Will
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Perish
2 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Zealous Persecution
15 sideboard cards
Changes
23 land
+2 wasteland
+3 cabal therapy-has a ton of synergy with lingering souls snap caster batterskull and intuition. Casting intuition for 2 therapy and a soul or three therapy if you have tokens is just great
-1 clique I love this guy but he is bad against spirit tokens lingering souls competes at the three spot and makes you want to tap out
-1 karakas fine card I think wasteland is more important. It is not as good for us as G/W we don't have knight to search it out
-1 lingering souls still testing this LS is great but its a little slow 3 feels right to me
How come, everyone is coppying lingering souls build now?
I mean...its a meta-tuned deck.+there is another uwb blade on same tournament that went undefeated in swiss.And looks more relyable in my point of view.
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...4&iddeck=57343
I just cant find an exuse to not to play at least 2-3 bobs.They are kinda the main reason the deck got black splash(at least they were)
If someone has followed vintage after snapcaster got released they started to abuse Intution for Accumulated Knowledge with snapcaster to get even more cards from them.
Question is if the esperblade deck with Lingering souls / Intuition would be able abuse this play as well. This would give the Intuition a more powerful effect more then just tutor or massive amount of tokens.
This deck is still a stoneforge deck, in UW (mostly), but with a splash of delver. The basic build of the deck remains the same, but you gain a faster clock, as well as some other benefits. You have some nice synergy - playing both bob and SFM gives you a much higher chance of resolving one of them, especially since people will often use a removal spell to kill your delver, and once you get either bob or SFM active you are likely to overwhelm your opponent. Also, you have a lot of ways to abuse your cantrips, with a ton of shuffle effects, delver, and bob. Finally, lingering souls gives you a ton of gas, and a game plan that is different from the rest of your deck - they can't deal with your spirits with a single removal spell, so often it will be very hard for them to stop you from killing them eventually if you are on the offense. Obviously, it is also good with equipment etc. Things I would think of doing with the deck - Jace could be put in the SB, but I don't htink he fits in the MD and it is nice to keep your curve very low. You can abuse extra mana with this deck, with lingering souls, equipment, etc, but i don't NEED as many lands as most SFM decks, which makes you less vulnerable to LD. The deck could also play a couple vindicates, a couple V-Cliques, or some Geist of Saint Trafts. It could also play some targeted discard, possibly instead of spell snares. It could also play Daze instead of spell snare. Wasteland might be good to play instead of factory if you play daze, and it would be nice to play more utility lands in general - but you might not be able to since you don't play many lands overall.
It seems aggressive but also more resilient than the RUG delver decks, which is one of the things that appeals to me about the deck. You have a lot of gas and a lot of ways to filter through your deck, so you rarely end up with nothing to do (if ever). However, you obbviously lack burn, and so you are slower and have less reach than RUG delver, whereas you are less able to control the game than traditional SFM decks. It tries to tow the line of both, with some disruption, some cheap and efficient creatures that can put on a clock but also get you card advantage. WHat do people think? Does this seem like a possibly worth-while direction for SFM decks to take?
4 delver of secrets
4 stoneforge mystic
1 jitte/sword of X&Y
1 batterskull
4 dark confidant
2 snapcaster mage
4 lingering souls
4 force of will
4 spell snare
4 swords to plowshares
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
2 mishra's factory
4 tundra
2 underground sea
1 scrubland
4 flooded strand
2 marsh flats
3 polluted delta
1 plains
1 island
I find this deck (with the new black splash) still has a poor matchup against GWr Maverick running Punishing Fires, which is pretty galling for me since I used to be the guy running Punishing Fire in my Zoo decks.
I'm not sure if I'm approaching the matchup wrong, but how are you guys sideboarding? Do you board in any grave hate like Surgical Extraction? All of our creatures die against Punishing Fire, and it's nearly impossible to stick a Jace.
I bring in 1-2 Meddling Mages and 1-2 Surgical Extractions against decks with Punishing Fire. However, I didn't play enough recently to come to a decisive conclusion.