Oups ! my bad, I should read the cards better next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by rakevinwr
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Oups ! my bad, I should read the cards better next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by rakevinwr
I am planning on attending and trying out this deck but I'm getting sick so I'm not sure if I'll make it. If so, I'll see you there, and good luck with it.Quote:
Also, is anyone going to play at SCG Edison next weekend? I'm brining my list there to battle, so hopefully I do yah'll proud. (knock on wood)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nudon
This is almost exactly what I would play.
Since Legacy allows 4 LED, Living Wish/LED basically becomes what Burnning Wish/LED was to Vintage combo in 2003.
I would seriously consider 4 Leyline of the Lifeforce in the sideboard, though instead of some of the other disruption you have in there.
Thanks! That was actually an older version of my current list: http://deckstats.net/deck-1937230-d5...1895cf8b5.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Smmenen
//Win Conditions
4 Undercity Informer
3 Balustrade Spy
4 Living Wish
//Mana Fixing
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Wild Cantor
2 Manamorphose
//Mana Generation
4 Chancellor of the Tangle
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
//Combo
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Narcomoeba
1 Dread Return
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Laboratory Maniac
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Balustrade Spy
SB: 1 Cavern of Souls
SB: 1 Swamp
SB: 1 Ingot Chewer
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 3 Chancellor of the Annex
SB: 4 Goblin Charbelcher
Leyline of lifeforce seems like a good card to run alongside chancellor of the annex. I can probably safely take out the chewer, revoker, and 1 leyline of sanctity/goblin charbelcher for it.
That looks much better, although I'm leaning towards 3 Therapy, 2 Bridge, 3 Narco for reasons you will understand. Otherwise, almost exactly what I'd play.
I really like the wish for cavern of souls play.
Then with cabals we get to rip apart counter magic.
Thanks very much for the feedback Stephen. I was reluctant to add bridge initially with 4 narcomoebas but a 3-2 split is nice and makes the 3rd therapy way better in case we have to pitch azami/angel to chrome mox. I cut the manamorphose because while it can be a life saver, it often does nothing. Here's my updated board:Quote:
Originally Posted by Smmenen
SB: 1 Balustrade Spy
SB: 1 Cavern of Souls
SB: 1 Swamp
SB: 3 Leyline of Lifeforce
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 3 Chancellor of the Annex
SB: 3 Goblin Charbelcher
Most of the board decisions are fairly straight-forward. FYI, I'm a Cal graduate ('09), something I think you can appreciate. :)
Sorry guys, "The Rogue Hermit" just isn't cutting it for me. I miss hermit druid as much as the next longtime player and I even play a signed copy of him in my Glissa EDH (don't worry, I play 24 basics with him, I'm not evil), but I don't think he should be the namesake for this deck. Me and some buddies on MTGSalvation have been name name brewing and I think I came up with the perfect name: Dead Drop.
We brewed up the names Rogue, Spy hard, Undercity spy and grindhouse, which all have some merit but don't quite fit. Rogue is okay, but too vague. Spy Hard doesn't mention the Informer side of things, and yet Undercity Spy is a bit too blunt and stumbling. Grindhouse doesn't catch the genre of the deck, as any grindhouse film afficionado will attest. Dead Drop, however, does fit. It's simple yet elegant.
For those out of the know, a dead drop is a hidden location used by covert operatives to secretly transfer objects or information. Both informers and spies would use dead drops.
Dead Drop captures both the elements of espionage and the physical act of dropping the whole library into the Graveyard, quite literally a drop into death. The work "dead" evokes the all in black side of the deck. Dead Drop marries the mechanical function of the deck to the intangible necessity for fitting flavor.
Dead drop is a name truly worthy of such a novel deck design.
Yeah, cavern gives the deck a fighting chance against FoW game 1. Though not frequent, those situations do occur. The swamp off living wish is actually more important in my experience because it will often turn on dark/cabal ritual. I've done this quite often in my goldfishing.Quote:
Originally Posted by rakevinwr
Those therapies can also be played from the hand occasionally due to chrome mox or swamp off living wish. They also help bin removal if you decide to board out azami/angel (though opponents will probably board out at least some of their removal games 2/3).
So you're telling me you made an account specifically to bitch about the name of a thread? Without having read the rest of the thread? This is "quite literally" the dumbest post I've ever read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Realize
I've said the name sucks, other people have said the name sucks, but no one can agree on a name. What the thread definitely doesn't need is a lecture on the history on dead drops.
Anyway,
So you guys are boarding in Chancellor of the Annex and Goblin Charbelcher as a package? What do you usually cut for the Leylines?
If you drop Leyline of the Life Force t0, aren't people just going to counter your mana sources or Dread Return? Doesn't seem like it would be more effective at getting around hate than Pact of Negation.
I'll usually board in chancellor of the annex no matter what because it's versatile (good against counters, discard, and gy hate). For me, goblin charbelcher comes in game 3 for living wish if gy hate was a big problem game 2 (i.e. faerie macabre/leyline of the void). Depending on the matchup, I'll probably cut a few living wishes and chancellor of the tangles and maybe a cabal therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
They won't be able to counter dread return because you can sac narcomoebas to flashback therapies first. Having mana sources countered, while not great, is much better than having your informer/spy countered since fewer resources were wasted. Careful play can probably mitigate the risk of getting 2 for 1 on getting countered. There's definitely merit to using pact of negation in place of leyline of lifeforce but I chose the leyline because it plays well with LED.
To make sideboarding easier, I've gone back to a 4-1 narc/bridge split. This allows me to cut 1 therapy and 1 bridge while still allowing me to get combo pieces out of my hand. Therapies are reduced games 2/3 since they won't do much except against counters. I'll typically board in 3-6 cards (assuming belcher doesn't come in). The other 4 cards cut (if 6) will probably come from a combination of chancellor of the tangle, living wish, and a second cabal therapy. Below is my latest list for reference:
http://deckstats.net/deck-1950502-93...7fa1e2226.html
//Win Conditions
4 Undercity Informer
3 Balustrade Spy
4 Living Wish
//Mana Fixing
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Wild Cantor
//Mana Generation
4 Chancellor of the Tangle
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
//Combo
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Narcomoeba
1 Bridge from Below
1 Dread Return
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Laboratory Maniac
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Balustrade Spy
SB: 1 Cavern of Souls
SB: 1 Swamp
SB: 3 Leyline of Lifeforce
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 3 Chancellor of the Annex
SB: 3 Goblin Charbelcher
This. This is gold. Well Mr. Muant, You specifically state that you've said the name sucks. You then rail against someone solving your problem and coming up with the fitting name.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
Did you see this Ben Williams chap calling the deck "Oops! All Spells!" Seriously! These are the sorts of travesties that occur when people don't set aside their differences and give decks good names. Bitching without offering solutions is inarguably bad. I didn't bitch, I solved your shit. Do your part and fix the name.
Jesus Muant, it's exactly this sort of vitriol that made me think it's not worth signing up for the source for so many years. MTGSalvation has just as many dumbasses, but at least over there they're not the people who started the thread. Why do you think I didn't read the thread? I've been turn one comboing people with SI for years. I bust Belchers for breakfast. Go do your research on Dead Drops and I won't have to lecture you.
Your list is pretty sweet - one of the better one's I've seen - by the way. My dumbass comment is relegated solely to your deck name aptitude.
The deck still needs something to push it over the top. This weekend is its only chance to surprise the meta completely. The future will rely on the same old cyclicism that every other deck faces.
Starcitygames has already picked this deck on the radar:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ll-Spells.html
SCG Edison, the deck is now collecting results.
There wasn't even a single one in the Top 16.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
What went wrong?
You're a strictly worse SI/Belcher deck that loses to Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt and co.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Many of the decks took the Prosak route and played only 8 win-cons, which I think is incorrect. Having only 8 win-cons equates to a 35% chance of not having one of your rogues in the opening 7. I'm not a big fan of mulling down to 6 once every 3 games. Furthermore, there are many combo pieces (narc, maniac combo, bridge, therapy) that are dead cards most of the time. Creating black mana is often tricky so there still is a lot of work needed for this deck to be viable. The potential is there since I think the speed of this deck rivals that of belcher (if not faster). However, it is far from a finished product.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Disappointing considering the representation, but three things to note:
a. We're still tuning/finding the right mix. Belcher is very close to optimized at this point, while we still have a few variants running around. And though it's not exactly a difficult deck, our pilots have less experience with their deck than most of the field. I saw at least one probably non-optimal play on camera.
b. Belcher/SI don't always place with similar field numbers (and have traditionally been a meta call). We only had a single Blecher/SI deck in the Top 16 here.
c. This is one tournament and one data point. Even well established decks don't always place (save Esper Stoneblade, which has been lurking in the Top 8 for like 3 months now. :tongue:)
This deck got 17th place, although it was not nearly as good as Nudon's list. I'm writing an article for EC on this archetype for both Vintage and another for Legacy.
I played this deck today at SCG Edison. Brief report on what went right and wrong for me:Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
The good:
The deck is capable of some powerful kills. I had 2 or 3 matches where it was just turn 1 wins both games in a row. Matches are over quickly, giving time to rest.
The bad:
1) I didn't pilot the deck particularly well. I made a couple of play mistakes involving Bridge from Below, and my sideboard and side boarding for this deck are very much a work in progress. Stuff like when to bring in Leyline of Sanctity, when to bring in bounce or Pithng Needles, etc. I used mostly a reactive and not transformational sideboard for this event, as I didn't feel that Belcher was consistent out of the board. I'm still looking for ways to improve the sideboard, and I feel there is a lot of room for improvement. I finished somewhere in the middle of the road today.
The okay:
Mulligans were not terrible. For this event, I had tested both Living Wish build and cycler build and went with one closer to the cycler lists. I had Pact of Negation main, which was unnecessary for this meta, which didn't turn out to be blue heavy. It would have been fine in the board. In a field that is more blue heavy, I would keep it in the main.
The hate:
Here is the graveyard and other hate I battled through today: Force of Will, Nihil Spellbomb, Deathrite Shaman, surgical extraction, Thalia, Daze, Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy. No Leyline of the Void, and no Rest in Peace (although there were some in the tourney). Daze was ineffective, the rest were effective. Hardest to face was Surgical Extraction, with Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy a close second. Had to try to beat down with Undercity Informer and tried beat with Street Wraith when key pieces were extracted. Hilarious, except I lost that game. I think a reactive sideboard is still possible, but you have to be a stone-cold expert on the format and very good at reading the situation and ballsy enough to leave out hate for Deathrite Shaman if the situation calls for it and bring it in when necessary. Going forward, the number one thing I will have to address with this deck is how to sideboard vs. all the GY hate and to try to find a good balanced sideboard vs. Thoughtseize on the draw. Four white Leylines were what I went with here, but I generally didn't get too greedy and mulligan to them if I had a 7 card hand with a win in it. That strategy tended to pay off vs. inexperienced opponents and failed with more experienced ones who would usually mulligan to a Thoughtseize or Nihil Spellbomb. If I find a transformational sideboard which I feel is effective enough vs. the field, I'll go with it. I'd like to find something that leaves a few slots for reactive cards as well, since sometimes that's all you really need.
Summary:
That's about it. I faced half fair decks like Jund, BUG, Junk, and a High Tide deck, Dredge, and Reanmator. There seemed to be a lot of combo decks there, and a lot of fair type decks like the above listed ones. If anyone has questions, feel free to ask.