[Deck] DeathBlade

Regarding Wastelands i think you are right, i play only 2 to give me the chance to use the "turn 1 DRS turn 2 Waste into Stoneforge nuts"

About Jace i had the same feeling, that it's only a 4 Mana Brainstorm, but this is just the theory. There are sequences where you put a Jace on the clean board an win. Otherwise you need Walker against Control-Decks because they have too many Outs for Creatures (BUGstill, Miracles) which are on the Rise.

I don't like Strix, they are too fair and do nothing against Nemesis. They shine against Tempo Decks, wich are allready very good MatchUps if you are not too greedy.

By the way what do you think about Lili? i love the girl. She wins so many Games against Control, Combo and Tempodecks. Here is my List

4 DRS
4 Stoneforge
4 TNN
2 Snapcaster
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisiton
2 Jace
2 Liliana
4 Strand
4 Delta
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
3 Usea
3 Tundra
1 Tropical Island

SB:
3 Disfigure
3 Flusterstorm
1 Snapcaster
1 Sword of Feast/Famine
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Clique
1 Surgical Extraction


Like you i try to beat Combo Post-Board so i try to morph into some kind of "Flash Control", the Disfigure are so great because they do everything you want because they kill Delver and DRS which are the problematic creatures for this deck i think

thoughts? :)

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Regarding Wastelands i think you are right, i play only 2 to give me the chance to use the "turn 1 DRS turn 2 Waste into Stoneforge nuts"

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Your list is sans wastelands matey?

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About Jace i had the same feeling, that it's only a 4 Mana Brainstorm, but this is just the theory. There are sequences where you put a Jace on the clean board an win. Otherwise you need Walker against Control-Decks because they have too many Outs for Creatures (BUGstill, Miracles) which are on the Rise.

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Well I so far am yet to experince the lack of walkers as a bad thing, even against control. With 18 threats, a number of disruption etc i still find myself more often in spots where other cards in most scenarios is better.
But hey, thats my experince, and are your meta dominant with control i can get behind it.

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I don't like Strix, they are too fair and do nothing against Nemesis. They shine against Tempo Decks, wich are allready very good MatchUps if you are not too greedy.

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Strix i find is pseudoremoval, that cantrips and carries eqiupments - i am inclined to at some point shave some or all, as i agree they are not amongst the best creatures in the deck.

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By the way what do you think about Lili? i love the girl. She wins so many Games against Control, Combo and Tempodecks. Here is my List

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I too am very smitten with Lili, however this i find it is not the deck for it. i had 1-2 in testing for a while, and very rarely did the +1 ability appeal to me. In jund, or lingering souls blade decks, sure, but i find her lacking as there are simply not enough synergi with these list to warrent a 3 mana sorcery speed edict with an upside.

regarding your list it looks fine barring a few comments:
1: Thorn in my eye! "´Where's sofai? That might be the best piece of equipment right now for this deck. i find it almost always as #1 as it applies pressure, increses clock drastically and cantrips for you.
2: Walkers - i dont agree with them, but again meta calls or playstyle might cause you to include them
3; Your manabase fella! How on earth you reliably can cast lili w/o drs is beyond me. This is also on of the reason i cut her as she strains our manabase further. You have 9 lands that tap for mana that does not include black, in fact you have by my count 6 (1 citp tapped) black sources?
4: SB. Is sculler better than MM and E. Canonist for you? These are mwps in my MUs i find, and you havent room for either? 3x removals in disfure in addition to ZP is overkill i think also.

Amazing that that thread doesnt die :laugh:.

I think the biggest difference of all Deathblade lists is the deck type. Some players like to play Deathblade as a midrange( or even aggro like) deck, tempo deck and others like me play the deck more like a control deck. In my opinion the control type is the better one of those. I dont see a good reson to play cards like Geist of Saint Traft( or even Tarmogoyf :eyebrow:). In dont think this deck should be a worse version of jund or BUG. Deathblade shines through its reactive nature, which can turn into pressure very fast, but also can grid out games against control and midrange decks. That is also the reson i still play jace. It is a great way to get ahead in grindy mu and just wins if it doesnt get answered.

This is my list:
//Manabase
4 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
2 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Tower of the Magistrate
//Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
//Equip
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
//Removel and CA/CQ
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Counterspell
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//Sideboard
SB: 2 Swan Song
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Detention Sphere
SB: 2 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

My personal core would be:

3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

1 Counterspell
4 Force of will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Thoughtseize

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa´s Jitte

+ X meta calls

(no Sword of Fire and Ice as a core card, because it is amzing in some mu, but almost useless in others)
@jedi_goyf:
- what is your reson behind cutting Jace? Because it dies to Nemesis? That problem can be anwsered and then Jace just ran away with the game most of the time. I would like to hear your reson here. Since you not really have 18 threats(Baleful Strix or Deathrite Shaman alone isnt a threat) Walkers are a nice way to pressure your oppenent from a diffrent edge.

- I played wastelands when i started playing Deathblade, but after TNN was released i could finally cut those. Most of the time they are just awful in a 3.5 colour deck. The only reson i played it was Grove of the Burnwillows. But with TNN, Sword of Fire and Ice and a good Sideboard P.Fire is a lot less powerful. I dont see why Deathblade should be playing this card right now. we arent tempo, want to cast our spells and have enough mana for equiping creatures with Batterskull. That is the reson i run no Basics. Basics in a 3.5 coloured deck doesnt work for me( but i also go a litte more into green). The only coulorless land i play is Tower, which is insanely powerful in Blade mirrors. I want to sucessful cast my stuff and recover fast from mana disruption. This manabase does that.

- i used to love Baleful Strix, but right now there are just to many things that stop it from being a removel. Jitte, TNN, Sword of Fire and Ice, -1/-1-effects and more stuff are there. If people stop playing Show and Tell and Miracles a bit then maybe it sees a comeback, but right now i see Snapcaster Mage > Baleful Strix.

- Liliana is obiously amazing at the moment but needs an entire diffrent deck. BB is hard and we dont have really like to discard most of the time. In a tempo like version it could still be good though.

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Cards i have been wanting to include or test out include:
Main
Cryptic command
Restoration Angel
board:
Notion Thief
Glen Elandra

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I never tried out Cryptic Command and Restoration Angel, but i think most of the time they are just worse then Vendillion Clique and Couterspell. If you have tested those let me know what you think.
Notion Thief and Glen Elandra are both huge blowouts if they resolve, but also very meta depented. For a small meta they are nice. In an open meta i think they are too special.

The 4c greed list of yours is truely greedy :wink:. Seems like Bantblade should be more streamlined and focused.

I really love this deck: Michael Bonde (9/138)

Creatures (14)
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants [10]
2 Dimir Charm
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries [7]
1 Ponder
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize

Planeswalkers [4]
4 Liliana of the Veil

Artifacts [2]
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands [23]
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta

Sideboard:

2 Vendilion Clique
1 Counterspell
1 Spell Pierce
3 Flusterstorm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Engineered Plague
2 Dread of Night
1 Rest in Peace

There is little agreement on card choices from one build to the next other than the core of the list. I did a breakdown of card choices a page or few ago but pe5e and I can't agree on much and honestly there isn't a lot more than list sharing going on in this thread. I don't see it doing well in tournament play and not too many people are even trying to play this deck competitively. I agree on your assessment of both JtMS and wasteland in the archetype, jedi_gof. Both are just wasted slots that don't help this deck accomplish it's main objectives.

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Edit : I tried delver in a build and I was pretty happy with it even though my instant/sorcery count was 22.

Hey the last few days i thought about how i can create the best value out oft the following cards.
I don't know how to play it right.
i want to include the following cards. Maybe you can help me to make the best out of theme.

Creatures:

Tarmogoyf
True-Name Nemesis
Deathrite Shaman
stoneforge mystic
Baleful Strix
Snapcaster Mage
Vendilion clique
Geist of Saint Traft
Knight oft the Reliquary


Spells:
Force of Will
Swords to Plowshares
Daze
Abrupt Decay
Brainstorm
Ponder
Thoughtseize
Vindicate

Equipments:

Umezawa's Jitte
Batterskull

Lands:
XX

Like i have read from other posts before i think playing Jace in a TNN heavy meta isnt good. Therefore i would cut the Jace's

Maybe you can help me to make the best out oft this cards.
I like playing TNN and goyf in one deck because both are powerhouses.

Goyf and tnn are awesome together and so is tnn and mystic. However, the issue you encounter at this point is a large amount of cards competing for the cmc2 slot. I am pretty sure that this is the juncture at which point you decide if you are playing bug or uwx. I don't see all 4 main creatures being able to be squeezed into one list and still be able to optimally gain value.

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Played Deathblade today for the first time since it first started becoming popular. I ran as close to Bertonchini's Vegas list as I could without diving into boxes to find less-used cards.

Went 2-1-2 with the second draw being me scooping someone else into top 8 so that I could go home and eat delicious beef.

The first three rounds were all against Thresh and I went loss, draw, win. I'm not sure whether to chalk that up to variance or me getting used to the deck again.

Round 1 Simon must've cast Forked Bolt at least six times in three games. Even if it can't hit TNN, that card gets a lot of work done against deathblade.

I don't remember which opponents it was against, but there were two things I really remember. First, Jace got a lot of work done. Bouncing Delver and controlling their top deck (really, in either order) is pretty great for making him not matter.

The other thing I did that was super awesome in this matchup involved paying close attention to the graveyard and the regular meta. "Oh you've got 4 bolts in the 'yard and no creatures? Yea, I'm gonna go ahead and go to 2" At one point, I had wasted or vindicated every colored land (starting with trops) except for one Volcanic. He fetched and failed to find twice in attempts to flip Delver.

Round 4 was GWB stuff. I wont' call it "Junk" because is wasn't the "Junk" deck, it was just... well, stuff.

The one trop maindeck ended up being a big deal as it saved me from "swing for game" 3 times in game one before I killed all of his stuff and came back for the win. Game 2 I brainstormed 4 times off two brainstorms (AWW YEA SNAPCASTER) and fatesealed him to death.

Round 5 was pure Esper. Great games. Game 3, between the two of us we list ten life to thoughtseize in the first 5 turns. We drew with him in a fairly commanding position and I scooped him in to top 8.

I'd definitely play the deck again, but I need to pick up the few things that make it a fully refined deck rather than just the pile of goodstuff that I built.

I hated Bertoncini's build. It just went belly - up in the finals to Boettcher on sneak and show, although I think that was at Providence. He ran 3 (!) Wastelands, jace AND lili. Freakin stupid.

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Thanks for your Responses Jedi :)

i'm sorry about the Wastelands, at first i had -1 one fetch - 1 Island +2 Wastelands, but i wanna have the second Island now with Blood Moon decks on the Rise.

I dont wanna cut my Walkers because of Miracle, They have Terminus and Verdict and i think that it's very hard to win with only creatures against them, Lili is a house in this MatchUp. The Mana for Lili is ok, sure double black is not easy but with a Basic Swamp it's fine because all Fetchies can fetch for the second black if needed.

Sworf of Fire/Ice is awesome but i don't see any place for it. In Fact i don't think its neccessary. Jitte with Nemesis races the same and opposing Nemesis isn't a problem for my list. Maybe i can play it in the Jitte-Slot, in many MatchUps Jitte kills 1 creature a turn,too and you can get Lifelink from Skull

The SB is pretty experimental. The three disfigures are mainly for the elves-matchUp, which is really tough if you opponent knows his deck. Although they kill all problematic creatures, Stoneforge, DRS and Delver

Hatebears i'm not sure. I hate Meddling Mages because if you name something without information, they can have the other part. Cannonist is the best against Storm obv. but it does nothing against Show/tell. Mages are good here, but they have so many outs against this guy (pyroclasm, blasts), i thought about Sculler, Discard with Legs is pretty nice against both Decks.

About the Comment of Playstyle
I wanna play Esper-Control with DRS, I'm not playing Rock with Blue ;)

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

Goyf and tnn are awesome together and so is tnn and mystic. However, the issue you encounter at this point is a large amount of cards competing for the cmc2 slot. I am pretty sure that this is the juncture at which point you decide if you are playing bug or uwx. I don't see all 4 main creatures being able to be squeezed into one list and still be able to optimally gain value.

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That means you would not play Stoneforge , TNN and Goyf in one deck? With the rise of TNN i like playing black and white for global effect cards like Zealous Persecution, Toxic Deluge, Engineered Plague.
On the other i like playing blue for TNN because its so good.
And Goyf is such a good creature that nobody wanna miss.

Maybe i can create a UWB list with a green splash just for goyf?
Or what would you suggest me?

So far it has meant no goyf, not no stoneforge. Stoneforge gives my tnn more power by protecting it from the majority of cards that kill it. Goyf is better when it comes to a singular threat, but I'm pretty sure that mystic is the best of the two when paired with tnn.

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3 true name nemesis
2 snapcaster mage
4 stoneforge mystic
4 deathrite shaman
2 baleful strix

4 brainstorm
1 ponder
3 fow
2 spell pierce
2 toughtsieze
2 iok
4 swords to plowshares
1 detention sphere


2 jtms

1 batterskull
1 umezawas jitte

4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
2 marsh flats
2 tundra
2 underground sea
1 scrubland
3 wasteland
1 karakas
1 academy ruins
1 plains
1 swamp
1 isalnd
1 creeping tar pit

regarding wasteland, i think its fine to run 3. i remember todd anderson and bbd used to run 3 also with a greedier mana base, (splashing green for decay). it enables for really good early plays like turn 1 drs to turn 2 wasteland then sfm, or turn one iok, then turn 2 wasteland, swords their guy, or drs. it works well too if your playing in a fair meta as you can recover faster mana-wise against rug , uwr, or d and t.(karakas and ports are a thing). it really depends on how you play and what decks you play against. this is one of the decks in legacy that is hard to find a stock list, because its always felxible. so its wrong to assume that one list is not valid compared to ther other, (unless the card choices make absolute no sense). jtms- there are events where i'd play him and he'll take over games, and there are times when he is garbage. my meta is 60% combo, even still i cant cut him off completely, at worse he's a fow fodder. i tried putting dak confidants in place of it, but i get punished severly for it. im thinking of putting lily, but i dont have the card. baleful strix is guaranteed value when it hits the table. it does so much for the deck. sword carrier, blocks bigger guys, forcing oppoents to bolt it, thus leaving me open to play sfm.
my version of deathblade is built to have game vs anything, hence more counters and discards, like the orignal esper stoneblade. while the manabase is very solid, it is still something im working on. the deck will work with 3 basics, especially with drs. the creeping tar pit will get replaced by a thrid tundra once i get bak my vards from a friend. academy ruins is soemyhing that works with the deck specially in the mirror, when its all about the manriki gusaris. plus it can bring back baleful strix in crucial moments.
just because you dint see this deck in the top 8 anymore doesnt mean, its dead or anything. the diffrnce between top 8 and 16 are litterly 1 win or sometimes just tiebreakers. seeing what scg has in their list does not mean a consistent deck like this is dead. deathblade is still a fine choice.

The "original" DeathBlade ran 6 discard spells and some even ran a 7th in the side, and the "stock" DeathBlade list ran 2 Abrupt Decay and 2 wasteland, that's both the dark confidant version and the geist version. My 4 color list runs 4 basics (2 island 1 Swamp 1 plains). Must be the reason why I don't like the wastelands.

I've been watching the lists, and even top16 death blade builds are few and far between.

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Sorry double post

I've been running this list locally for a while now and I'm happy with it. Main deck is tuned for creature battles, the board brings in a bunch of combo hate. Only changes I've been contemplating are 1) reducing the equipment count to possibly get a Vindicate in somewhere, and 2) reworking the mana base. I hate having the Scrubland and Tropical. Was thinking about going something more like:
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Academy Ruins
2 Wasteland

The current deck:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Baleful Strix

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Force of Will

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
2 Wasteland
1 Scrublands
1 Tropical Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins

Sideboard
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Swan Song
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Meddling Mage
1 Zur's Weirding
1 Flusterstorm
2 Zealous Persecution

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Originally Posted by slikwilly

I've been running this list locally for a while now and I'm happy with it. Main deck is tuned for creature battles, the board brings in a bunch of combo hate. Only changes I've been contemplating are 1) reducing the equipment count to possibly get a Vindicate in somewhere, and 2) reworking the mana base. I hate having the Scrubland and Tropical. Was thinking about going something more like:
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Academy Ruins
2 Wasteland

The current deck:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Baleful Strix

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Force of Will

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
2 Wasteland
1 Scrublands
1 Tropical Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins

Sideboard
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Swan Song
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Meddling Mage
1 Zur's Weirding
1 Flusterstorm
2 Zealous Persecution

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seems solid, i just dont get the tropical for. id run tropical and savanah if i have abrupt decay mainboard.
but if your not running that much green, i think theres much use for it except the life gain fron drs.

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Originally Posted by Deadpool09

seems solid, i just dont get the tropical for. id run tropical and savanah if i have abrupt decay mainboard.
but if your not running that much green, i think theres much use for it except the life gain fron drs.

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Now you are writing, do you think my deck (the one which is above) is solid? I need an opinion!!

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Originally Posted by SORO

Now you are writing, do you think my deck (the one which is above) is solid? I need an opinion!!

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i love the addition of these 2 (bob and lily) the combination of lily and bob can be better than jace at times, it helps ou pull ahead mid game, espeially when you find our self durdling around . id run them myself if i own lily. but id cut them down to 3 each.
i think running no form of counterspells is risky, unless its a meta call for where you play,. and i dont see much use for green source except for the drs ability. personally, im a big fan of running 2-3 basics in deathlade, as you can establish your mana and board presence with shaman
aside for that, it looks good in paper

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Originally Posted by jedi_gof

Sad to see no useful posts recently regarding this deck. Most is budget, which in my opinion goes in another forum - sorry.

First:
Can someone shed a light on why they insist on keeping Jace, tms in their lists? In my experience they are, if not horrible, then worse then other?

Second:
Thoughts on wasteland? I also keep seeing alot playing 3-4 wastes, but I have hated them in testing, almost always wanting them to be a fetch or colored source.
I for one need som great input to even consider putting them back. We need a lot of colors by tur 1-3, like t1 discard, t2 bstorm + plow into turn 3 tnn.

Let get some lists up you guys along with your thoughts behind the choices.

I belive the core is as follows
21-23 Lands

4 discard
4 Brainstorm
3 FOW

1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sofai

4 SFM
4 TNN
4 DRS
1 Clique
Did i miss anything/include too much? Can we agree on this as core of deathblade?

My current list:


Creatures:
2 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
18

Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ponder
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
21

Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Tropical Island
21

Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Detention Sphere
1 Swan Song
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage

Above list is tuned to beat a creature heavy meta main, and to crush combo post board.
So far the list are performing admirably although my twins are seriously limiting my play-time opportunities, with various tweaks - not much has changed since our list from DLM (page 9)

Considerations:

Cards i have been wanting to include or test out include:
Main
Cryptic command
Restoration Angel
board:
Notion Thief
Glen Elandra

Also in bonus section: Greedy 4c list(under development)

3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tarmogoyf
4 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Bayou
3 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Swan Song
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Detention Sphere
1 Humility
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Manriki-Gusari

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I think Cryptic would be an amazing fit in this deck, and it would most likely benefit a lot more from cryptic than jace, tbh.