4 Card Blind

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PirateKing

I agree that Misstep is wrong for this, keep it off

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Misstep is incredibly narrow. Against half the decks it actually doesn't do anything at all.
I do feel, however, that it might not be safe to keep it legal next to Force of Will.
Force gives a dead Misstep a function (pitch fodder), and that might make it a bit too much.

For round 1, Misstep proved to not be a serious issue. It was solid, and hosed my deck rather well, but it wasn't dominating.
Let's see what round 2 does, and after that we can give it the axe if we like.
Actually, if we decide to go for the progressive banning idea, it'll probably get the axe soon anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

Be careful with the definition of lands that only produce mana if you go this route, because that means half the storage lands would be hit, and they serve an important purpose.

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Thanks. I'll keep it in mind. Storage lands are indeed a resource we don't want to lose.

Well, my point on the Legacy Banned list is that if we aren't starting with that, you need to Ban most of the Vintage Restricted list for obvious reasons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Misstep is incredibly narrow. Against half the decks it actually doesn't do anything at all.
I do feel, however, that it might not be safe to keep it legal next to Force of Will.
Force gives a dead Misstep a function (pitch fodder), and that might make it a bit too much.

For round 1, Misstep proved to not be a serious issue. It was solid, and hosed my deck rather well, but it wasn't dominating.
Let's see what round 2 does, and after that we can give it the axe if we like.
Actually, if we decide to go for the progressive banning idea, it'll probably get the axe soon anyway.

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Cavern of Souls and Leyline of Lifeforce are technically counterplay for Mental Misstep, and Cavern itself is quite playable anyways.

@asthreal

Could you maybe update the banned list post with cards that are being considered for banning or are in fact being banned for round 2? That way we can at least keep track of them because we now have like 5 pages of discussion on it and that will only grow.

Also, hope you saw my post about keeping round decklists in op or at least a link to where you post them.

As for misstep, it has to be banned here for the same reason it was banned in legacy. It will warp the format, probably even more so here because this format is arguably more heavily reliant on 1cmc cards than legacy. One round of 28 decks is a really poor representation of the format. Hell, there was 0 removal, 0 chalice of the voids, and 0 lion’s eye diamonds, all cards that I expect to be played in this format.

Thanks

SEASON 1, ROUND 2 of Legacy FOUR CARD BLIND has started!

I have PM'ed myself my deck for the round.
So... you can all start PM'ing me your submission for the second round.

DEADLINE: Wednesday the 27th of February, at 6:00AM Central European Time. (That's my time. Just send me the deck Tuesday evening latest, you'll be fine).

PLEASE NOTE:
- The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Loam Lion, Loam Lion, Pithing Needle, Cavern of Souls (so not above eachother), with your Username and 4CB S01R02 in the topic.
- The updated banned list (you'll find it in the second post). I have created a combined banned list with all relevant cards from the Legacy list, plus a number of cards that break the format.
Most important changes: Mental Misstep is unbanned (it already was, but I forgot to mention it in the second post). Banned are The Rack, Cabal Therapy and Blackmail.
Yes, the list is open for discussion. Misstep is on the watch list. So are LED, Eureka, Force of Will and Misthollow Griffin.

After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.

If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

Happy deck designing everybody!

ABOUT ROUND ONE:
Not everybody has posted their scores yet. Please do so this weekend, so I can post scores and update standings before the deadline for round 2.

I can't PM you, you need to clear out your inbox

Opponent Deck OtP OtD Notes
Asthereal Force of Will,Sea's Claim,Slippery Bogle,Island 0 0
Pirate King City of Traitors,The Rack,The Rack,Lupine Prototype 0 0
Matsu Rishadan Port,Mishra's factory,Mental Misstep,Mental Misstep 0 0
CptHaddock Force of Will,Misthollow Griffin,Saprazzan Cove,Mental Misstep 0 0
Taconaut Force of Will,Misthollow Griffin,Saprazzan Cove,Confiscate 0 0
Mr. Safety City of Traitors,Elvish Spirit Guide,Ensnaring Bridge,Scalding Tongs 0 0
Clx33 Saprazzan Cove,Force of Will,Misthollow Griffin,Propaganda 0 0
Fallen_Empire City of Traitors,Torpor Orb,Phyrexian Dreadnought,Phyrexian Dreadnought 1 1
tescrin Sphere of Resistance,Crystal Vein,Mishra's Factory,Mishra's Factory 3 0
PapriNgomo Undiscovered Paradise,Undiscovered Paradise,Scythe Leopard,Adventuring Gear 3 3
ronco Swamp,Smallpox,Nether Spirit,Lotus Petal 0 0
JackaBo City of traitors,Simian spirit guide,Simian spirit guide,Thought-knot-seer 3 0
H Tropical Island,Force of Will,Force Spike,Old-Growth Dryads 0 0
mistercakes swamp,culling the weak,shield sphere,phyrexian obliterator NA NA
Dan Pyre Swamp,Cabal Ritual,Lotus Petal,Phyrexian Crusader 3 3
kombatkiwi Peat Bog,Bitterblossom,Nether Spirit,Smallpox 0 0
Tylert Havenwood Battleground,city of traitors,Eureka,Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 0 0
Ace/Homebrew Leyline of the Void,Leyline of Sanctity,Serra's Sanctum,Myth Realized 3 3
spartan117 The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale,Eladamri's Vineyard,Treetop Village,Field Of Ruin 3 3
beardstorm Island,Zealous Guardian,Force Spike,Sea's Claim 0 0
phonics Swamp,Mishra's Factory,Blackmail,The Rack 3 0
Sloshthedark Blinkmoth Nexus,Inkmoth Nexus,City of Traitors,Sphere of Resistance 3 0
JosefK Blackmail,Cabal Therapy,Swamp,The Rack 3 0
spirit of the wretch Leyline of Singularity,Karakas,City of Traitors,Hangarback Walker 0 0
apple713 Plains,Mishra's Factory,Mana Tithe,Leyline of the Void 3 0
Darklingske The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale,Grove of the Burnwillows,Punishing Fire,Dwarven Hold 3 3
FTW Leyline of the Void,Scrubland,Cabal Therapy,Student of Warfare 3 0
Kap'n Cook Force of Will,Judge's Familiar,Tropical Island,Greenbelt Rampager 0 0


otp:37
odt:16
total:53

i think it's correct, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

mistercakes swamp,culling the weak,shield sphere,phyrexian obliterator

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not sure how relevant it would have been but phyrexian walker seems like a better choice for your deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple713

not sure how relevant it would have been but phyrexian walker seems like a better choice for your deck.

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i guess against your deck it would give me 1 point instead 0 on the draw. there might be a few others, but pretty small margins. most of my losses are due to FoW and discard. i lose to smallpox in a few, emrakul in another and pirate king races me as he pointed out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

i guess against your deck it would give me 1 point instead 0 on the draw. there might be a few others, but pretty small margins. most of my losses are due to FoW and discard. i lose to smallpox in a few, emrakul in another and pirate king races me as he pointed out.

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You would force a draw with smallpox if you played walker instead because it could always block nether spirit. And you’d wait to play it until they pox’d. So no one would play anything.

But yea its very low impact, forcing a handful of draws instead of losses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

tescrin Sphere of Resistance,Crystal Vein,Mishra's Factory,Mishra's Factory 3 0

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You draw on the play here, double Factory activations plus a pump trades with Phyrexian Obliterator before you can kill on turn 5.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

You draw on the play here, double Factory activations plus a pump trades with Phyrexian Obliterator before you can kill on turn 5.

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oh interesting! I missed this one too. I wonder if I've missed any others
(Note: wrath means that I sac Vein and turn on both factories, each blocking and pumping themselves, which is to say two 3/3s blocking.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

SEASON 1, ROUND 2 of Legacy FOUR CARD BLIND has started!

I have PM'ed myself my deck for the round.
So... you can all start PM'ing me your submission for the second round.

DEADLINE: Wednesday the 27th of February, at 6:00AM Central European Time. (That's my time. Just send me the deck Tuesday evening latest, you'll be fine).

PLEASE NOTE:
- The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Loam Lion, Loam Lion, Pithing Needle, Cavern of Souls (so not above eachother), with your Username and 4CB S01R02 in the topic.
- The updated banned list (you'll find it in the second post). I have created a combined banned list with all relevant cards from the Legacy list, plus a number of cards that break the format.
Most important changes: Mental Misstep is unbanned (it already was, but I forgot to mention it in the second post). Banned are The Rack, Cabal Therapy and Blackmail.
Yes, the list is open for discussion. Misstep is on the watch list. So are LED, Eureka, Force of Will and Misthollow Griffin.

After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.

If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

Happy deck designing everybody!

ABOUT ROUND ONE:
Not everybody has posted their scores yet. Please do so this weekend, so I can post scores and update standings before the deadline for round 2.

---

You need to clean space for new messages. Getting an error message.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tescrin

oh interesting! I missed this one too. I wonder if I've missed any others
(Note: wrath means that I sac Vein and turn on both factories, each blocking and pumping themselves, which is to say two 3/3s blocking.)

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Everything looks good. I misread 7 for a moment and thought you had a winning line, but Propaganda does indeed lock you out.

I am so bad... sorry for lateness!

Deck: Swamp, Cabal Ritual, Lotus Petal, Phyrexian Crusader

1. Asthereal: My Crusader gets Forced both games, die to Bogles 0-6 (0)
2. PirateKing: Can't race 2x Rack and a 5/5 0-6 (0)
3. Matsu: None of my cards can be Missteped, I race Factory and the block trick doesn't work against Infect + First Strike. Port doesn't stop on the draw since I turn 1 Crusader. 6-0 (6)
4. CptHaddock: Crusader gets Forced 0-6 (6)
5. Taconaut: Same as above 0-6 (6)
6. Mr. Safety: Crusader can't pay the bridge toll. 0-6 (6)
7. Clx33: Force time! 0-6 (6)
8. Fallen_Empire: 24 damage per turn beats 2 infect per turn. 0-6 (6)
9. tescrin: On the play, I can always force a draw because Factories cannot attack with only 1 pump profitably into Crusader. Tescrin doesn't have to crack Vein when they are on the draw, so I cannot attack as they can activate, block, double pump and then kill me with the other factory. On the draw I lose to Sphere. 1-3 (7)
10. PapriNgomo: On the play I can race Leopard. On the draw, I can block Leopard's attack on turn 2 (both lands played to equip gear so it isn't a 4/4 this attack), meaning that I win the race by 1 turn - Leopard cannot kill Crusader in combat while blocking. 6-0 (13)
11. ronco: Smallpox wrecks me both games - even casting it if I do nothing takes away one of my resources to play a 3 mana spell. Nether beats. 0-6 (13)
12. JackaBo: I can't win even on the play as I cannot race unless I get an attack in first. I can't draw since my block doesn't shrink TKS enough. On the draw I get TKS'd. 0-6 (13)
13. H: Force! 0-6 (13)
14. mistercakes: Shit, this is the better strat. Obliterator races with ease both games. 0-6 (13)
15. Dan Pyre: Me!
16. kombatkiwi: Smallpox/Nether wins no matter when cast. 0-6 (13)
17. Tylert: I cannot infect Emrakul. 0-6 (13)
18. Ace/Homebrew: Crusader has pro-white! Myth can't pump fast enough to race. 6-0 (19)
19. spartan117: I can pay for Tabernacle with my Swamp, and Crusader shrinks Village enough to attack or block profitably. 6-0 (25)
20. beardstorm: On the play, I race Guardian with ease. On the draw, I get Spiked! 3-3 (28)
21. phonics: Factory + Rack races Crusader on the play, leaving Crusader to block means I lose to Race. I cannot race on the Draw. 0-6 (28)
22. Sloshthedark: On the play I win as even double block pump cannot beat first strike into infect. On the draw turn 1 Sphere turns my deck off. 3-3 (31)
23. JosefK: On the play, race Rack. On the draw, lose to discard. 3-3 (34)
24. spirit of the wretch: Crusader always gets bounced 0-6 (34)
25. apple713: Factory can't block on the play, on the draw I get Mana Tithed 3-3 (37)
26. Darklingske: I can pay for Tabernacle both games, Crusader is pro red, and I race the P Fire. 6-0 (43)
27. FTW: On the play I can race and can't be blocked, on the draw I get hand hated 3-3 (46)
28. Kap'n Cook: Forced! 0-6 (49)

Final score: 46! Not bad for all in strats.

Scouring through the thread to make sure some results are correct:

Apple713: Our match is wrong in your results. Factory can't block Crusader and live when on the draw - First Strike plus infect beats a 3/3. However on the draw your Tithe can hit any of my spells and stop me. Our score should be 3-3, yes?
Ronco: Casting Smallpox cuts me off playing Crusader entirely. Nether spirit beats. 6-0 your favor. Collect your points :P

Looking forward to next round!

22. Sloshthedark: Blinkmoth Nexus, Inkmoth Nexus, City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance PTS OTP/OTD

1. Asthereal (TO): Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Slippery Bogle, Island 3-3
2. PirateKing: City of Traitors, The Rack, The Rack, Lupine Prototype 0-0
3. Matsu: Rishadan Port, Mishra's factory,Mental Misstep, Mental Misstep 3-3
4. CptHaddock: Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Saprazzan Cove, Mental Misstep 1-1
5. Taconaut: Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Saprazzan Cove, Confiscate 0-0
6. Mr. Safety: City of Traitors, Elvish Spirit Guide, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs 3-1
7. Clx33: Saprazzan Cove, Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Propaganda 1-1
8. Fallen_Empire: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought 3-0
9. tescrin: Sphere of Resistance, Crystal Vein, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Factory 3-3
10. PapriNgomo: Undiscovered Paradise, Undiscovered Paradise, Scythe Leopard, Adventuring Gear 3-3
11. ronco: Swamp, Smallpox, Nether Spirit, Lotus Petal 3-3
12. JackaBo: City of traitors, Simian spirit guide, Simian spirit guide, Thought-knot-seer 3-0
13. H: Tropical Island, Force of Will, Force Spike, Old-Growth Dryads 3-3
14. mistercakes: swamp, culling the weak, shield sphere, phyrexian obliterator 3-0
15. Dan Pyre: Swamp, Cabal Ritual, Lotus Petal, Phyrexian Crusader 3-0
16. kombatkiwi: Peat Bog, Bitterblossom, Nether Spirit, Smallpox 3-3
17. Tylert: Havenwood Battleground, city of traitors, Eureka, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 3-3
18. Ace/Homebrew: Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Sanctity, Serra's Sanctum, Myth Realized 3-3
19. spartan117: The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale, Eladamri's Vineyard, Treetop Village, Field Of Ruin 0-0
20. beardstorm: Island, Zealous Guardian, Force Spike, Sea's Claim 3-3
21. phonics: Swamp, Mishra's Factory, Blackmail, The Rack 0-0
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23. JosefK: Blackmail, Cabal Therapy, Swamp, The Rack 3-0
24. spirit of the wretch: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, City of Traitors, Hangarback Walker 3-3
25. apple713: Plains, Mishra's Factory, Mana Tithe, Leyline of the Void 3-3
26. Darklingske: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Grove of the Burnwillows, Punishing Fire, Dwarven Hold 0-0
27. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Scrubland, Cabal Therapy, Student of Warfare 3-3
28. Kap'n Cook: Force of Will, Judge's Familiar, Tropical Island, Greenbelt Rampager 3-3

OTP 62
OTD 45
=107

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch

22. Sloshthedark: Leyline + Karakas > Nexi 6-0 (76)
k

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- Nexus is still a land so I think I race you

I hope I did not make any mistakes, I'm terrible at combat math, otherwise - I really like decks 2&24&26, totally missed the Rack card
for suggestions - what about some publicly shared spreadsheet for results? it's quite hard to navigate and crosscheck all the posts

@Sloth

8. Fallen_Empire: I'm pretty sure you lose OTD again fallen. He plays torpor orb t1 and then can pay for dreadnaughts 1 each turn. 12/12 races 1/1.

@Dan

Agree ... all my 19 points are dwindling :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

- Nexus is still a land so I think I race you

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How so? With Leyline in Hand I can bounce one of your Nexi indfinitely with Karakas. So you animate both Nexxi, I bounce one and pump Hangabrack Walker.
You cannot race the Walker.

I think:
̶#̶1̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶u̶p̶p̶o̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶3̶-̶1̶.̶ ̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶w̶i̶n̶ ̶O̶T̶P̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶l̶o̶c̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶u̶n̶l̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶c̶e̶s̶,̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶c̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶t̶w̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶t̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶.̶ ̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶d̶r̶a̶w̶ ̶O̶T̶D̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶c̶l̶a̶i̶m̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶I̶n̶k̶m̶o̶t̶h̶ ̶(̶i̶t̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶ ̶f̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶a̶ ̶r̶a̶c̶e̶.̶)̶ ̶T̶h̶u̶s̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶B̶l̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶b̶l̶o̶c̶k̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶o̶g̶l̶e̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶t̶t̶a̶c̶k̶s̶.̶ ̶I̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶b̶l̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶f̶i̶r̶s̶t̶,̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶a̶t̶t̶a̶c̶k̶s̶ ̶f̶i̶r̶s̶t̶,̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶e̶i̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶l̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶a̶c̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶=̶>̶ ̶d̶r̶a̶w̶.̶
EDIT: nm slosh was right

#8 He plays orb OTD and slow plays the Dreads. 12/12 > 2/2 infect :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

22. Sloshthedark: Blinkmoth Nexus, Inkmoth Nexus, City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance PTS OTP/OTD

1. Asthereal (TO): Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Slippery Bogle, Island 3-3
8. Fallen_Empire: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought 3-3

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I think those are the only mistakes (assuming I'm correct)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch

How so? With Leyline in Hand I can bounce one of your Nexi indfinitely with Karakas. So you animate both Nexxi, I bounce one and pump Hangabrack Walker.
You cannot race the Walker.

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Re-read Leyline of Singularity - all Nonland permanents. The reason you beat mine is because you grow until I can't do anything about it; in which case you eventually become 'uge. In his case Hangerback is just a growing dude and he hits for "4" a turn. By the time you are even a 4/4 you're already at 5-7 infect. If you had a sac-outlet you could draw each game instead I think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

You need to clean space for new messages. Getting an error message.

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I didn't know that would be a thing so soon.
I've made some space. You can send again.