[DTW] Faerie Stompy

Alright, after testing Ankh for a moment, I'm thinking that it could be an SB-card. It's really Ankh vs. Orb for the control match-up. On the other hand, Ankh dropped early will provide a hard-to-answer threat that might put them very low on life indeed, making the finishing Blast easy. On the other hand, Orb drawn at any point when they've tapped low basically paralyzes them if not Disenchanted immediately. The thing I like about Ankh is that it helps the overall plan of the deck; deals lots of damage for a cheap price. Winter Orb, on the other hand, goes to the other end of the spectrum, slowing the opponent down to crawl to buy whatever we've got the time to beat 'em up.

MD though, definately not. Against any red decks, AS, general RG-decks and company, it might just kill me instead and I definately have better use for my mana.

On another note, you know that the deck is getting popular when you find random threads in random languages from random forums about the deck when you search for 'Faerie Stompy'. The bad part is, I'm very disappointed with the lack of understanding regarding the card choices (some people opt to drop Sea Drakes for god-knows-what reasons, others are convinced that they want thee uncastable Meloku in there somewhere and that's only the start of it).

Honestly, the Vial/Still and this deck differ so much at this point that they aren't even comparable. They're completely different archeatypes with very different strategies.

Personally, I still think this variant is the best as it gets far more broken starts, and most importantly abuses Chalice like a madman to eat the rest of the metagame alive.

My testing pretty much agrees with you about Ankh. It's absolutely incredible against certain matchups, but horrid against Goblins for example. I'm definately going to be subbing out Orbs for it.

A couple of other changes I've made...

I'm running 2 Phyrexian War Beast in place of the Sea Sprite. Sprite is awesome agiainst Goblins, but War Beast isn't that bad either, and is solid against every deck, not just those running red based removal, where Sprite is just a lone 1/1 flyer. I know War Beast can't fly, but as a 3/4, I have been minding that too much. It's drawback really isn't that bad either. In fact, if people are having trobule finding Sea Drake, they really are near impossible to find - I had to trade for them thru a dutch forum, I think War Beast could temporarly as a substitute. I think the difficulty of getting Drake is a big reason this deck isn't seeing more play actually.

Another change I've made is to run a single Rushing River. It's nice to have atleast one out when the game becomes a stalemate, Worship multiple big creatures on both sides, things like that. And I've honestly never regretted drawing it. It bounces back potential blockers to kill a turn faster, bounces back Pithing Needle on your equipment while you already have a Chalice down set a 1 to stop them from replaying it, bounces back Reanimated creatures, DSCs all sorts of great plays. At worst it can be mounted to a Chrome Mox or pitched to a FoW.

Also, I really think it's about time that the Trinket Mage count is brought up to 4. Chalice (through Mage) is the single most powerful play this deck has. And fetching Needle can be huge too against decks like Survival and what not.

I also really think the land count should be brought up to 18. This is a very mana intensive deck, and your lands are already vulnerable to Wastelands. And since I've gotten the Drakes and have been able to play this in more places (only a couple of people I knew were okay with Proxies), it's become more and more apprarent that the issues of getting mana screwed isn't just a MWS anomoly. This deck for whatever reason is more vulnerable to mana screw and mana disruption than most. And for me atleast, it's had a very hard time against any Pikula/Sui variants even with 18 land.

The reason I've been able to make room for all these changes is because I had to trade away my Jitte. So I'm currently not running any, which I know isn't good (though it is nice to not have any hesitation about setting Chalice at 2 esp since I'm not running Sea Sprite either, and can cycle Cloud of Fairies).

For reference, this is what my build currently looks like (I will find room for the Jittes the first chance I get)...

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Island - I also cut Conclaves as this deck is slightly more mana intensive than your version, and I absolutely hate topdecking Conclaves
4 Chrome Mox
2 Seat of the Synod

4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
4 Trinket Mage
2 Phyrexian War Beast

4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Fact of Fiction
2 Psionic Blast
1 Rushing River
1 Pithing Needle

Sideboard
4 Ankh of Mishra
3 Misdirection - I hate sui variants
3 Binding Grasp
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sea Sprite
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GodzillA

It could be because they're near impossible to find.

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That's certainly a reason, but the comments have been more like 'I haven't been satisfied in Sea Drakes, since I insist on casting them turn 2 off Tomb and Island and that is a major tempo setback' (in other words, they're striving for an optimal build out of an infinite cardpool) Perhaps I should add the following line to the opening post: "Your turn 2 play is not Sea Drake."


I'd personally take the Chalice-variant simply because Chalice is a ridiculous bomb in the format and gets me out of jams I have no business getting out of, as well as just plain wins games and makes up for the card disadvantage of all FoWs and Moxes I cast (through making half my opponent's deck uncastable), shuts down Life-engines and gives me a solid combo match-up, which is definately harder without an access to 7-of MD hate. Vial and Still would probably work better in a more controllish environment, but one great aspect I like about the present build is how much mana it can get out of few cards; dropping City of Traitors automatically decreases that. Also, adding Vial automatically increases the amount of manacards in your deck. But yea, I view it kinda as a separate archetype, since Chalice is so pivotal in the deck (it dictates much of the deck construction thanks to being often dropped at 1).

Rushing River is certainly a nice card to have, but I'd really appreciate having tutors for a singleton. Then again, just knowing that one has an out is always nice (although I haven't been in a non-life related sitiuation where I wouldn't have had an out between Chalice, Needle and EE).


Your results with Sui-variants surprise me. In my experience, as long as FS is able to lay a beatstick, the game is basically a wrap-up and add to that the Misdirections on the SB (they aren't going anywhere), it's all good. Sure, occasionally one gets landscrewed into oblivion, but more often than not, some combination of Mox, FoW and two-mana lands can dig one out of such a jam.


And yes, the deck does have more mana issues than your average deck, but not notably more than say Vial Goblins (with the difference that a Wasteland/Port hand with Vial is keepable in some match-ups (namely ones featuring no FoWs and you going first)). I have to mulligan every now and then and yes, occasionally because I don't have coloured sources, but it's pretty much a risk I'm willing to take; on the other side of the coin is to lose more and more games to manaflood and lack some cards in your deck that you'd need to win some match-ups.


I'm glad Rushing River is working, but have you tried Repeal? I mean, sure it doesn't bounce DSC, but it does practically everything else and without costing a card. I'm half-considering trying a larger number of Repeals in the MD. If only they could painlessly replace something. But then again, if they could, the deck would have some cards not worth playing I guess it's good there're no easy replacements.

I don't know. Repeal doesn't seem as nice as bouncing back two of their key blockers/equipped creatures and winning that same turn. But I'll try it.

Do you have anything to add in regards to...

running 18 land

running 4 Trinket Mage (I am 100% certain this is the way to go)

running War Beast over Sea Sprite for a stronger overall creature against all decks, not just goblins. And possibly recommending those who can't get Drakes to run War Beast instead now so that they can atleast play something akin to this deck. I really think the difficulty of getting Drakes is the main reason that the deck only seems to be played on MWS tourneys as opposed to real tourneys.

Also, I know I mentioned this before, but given Drake fish's surprising finish, I really think Mask of Memory should be tested, it's generally stronger than Thirst. The only disadvantages are, it can't be pitched to Force, it can't be cast if you have a Jitte at 2. Both seem pretty minor though, but then again, I haven't ran the card myself anytime recently. When I did run it way back when, I was generally happy with it, but details of it's performance in comparison to the drawers I use now escape me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SuckerPunch

Do you have anything to add in regards to...

running 18 land

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I've never had any seroius problem with the landbase the deck has, but that may have to do with the way I mulligan and what I'm comfortable keeping. When it comes to an issue like this it's kind of tough to reccomend a perfect number. Some people can't stand the fact that every once in a while, this deck loses to its landbase. Those people should feel free to run more lands. I, personally prefer the current build.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SuckerPunch

running 4 Trinket Mage (I am 100% certain this is the way to go)

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I've been running 4 for a while now, so I'm on board.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SuckerPunch

running War Beast over Sea Sprite for a stronger overall creature against all decks, not just goblins. And possibly recommending those who can't get Drakes to run War Beast instead now so that they can atleast play something akin to this deck. I really think the difficulty of getting Drakes is the main reason that the deck only seems to be played on MWS tourneys as opposed to real tourneys.

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I wouldn't replace the Sea Sprites for anything since I'm actually trying to get back up to 4 of them. The most recent D4Ds proved that the rumors of Goblins downfall were greatly exagerrated, and after many changes to the deck, the matchup has slipped from ~ 75/25 to about 60/40 maybe.

As for Sea Drakes, I guess War Beast is an ok sub for Sea Drakes, but the fact is, there really is no ok sub for Sea Drake. A lot of people complain about hard to find cards, but I would much rather the card take a little work to find than cost a ton. A couple of drawbacks on War Beast are that it makes one land hands unkeepable, and that this deck already suffers at the hand of mass artifact destruction (Deed, anyone?).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SuckerPunch

Also, I know I mentioned this before, but given Drake fish's surprising finish, I really think Mask of Memory should be tested, it's generally stronger than Thirst. The only disadvantages are, it can't be pitched to Force, it can't be cast if you have a Jitte at 2. Both seem pretty minor though, but then again, I haven't ran the card myself anytime recently. When I did run it way back when, I was generally happy with it, but details of it's performance in comparison to the drawers I use now escape me.

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(I'm assuming Jitte means Chalice)

Mask just has no place here. The last thing we need is another draw engine based on our creatures connecting. Mask works in AS and Blue Skies because of their high creature count, which we don't have. There are too many control decks that can keep us at 0 creatures for too long. This is where our dig shines.

That's a good point about Mask.

As for being annoyed with Sui Variants. It's not that I've had trouble with the matchup, atleast when I play this in real life as opposed MWS.

It's that the matchups that I win go by so fast taht I barely notice, and the ones that I lose are so drawn out and annoying with you basically spending the whole game praying for more land and some Facts to recover from the discard, that they stick out more. It's like playing versus Stax.

Some one should contact the MWS programmers with the problems with the MWS shufflers, as the program would be perfect if not for that one easily fixable flaw.

Hi, now I have about months intensive testing with this deck and I don´t understand your results of matchup with Threshold. Your Threshold version for testing is quite different. But in my area is very popular little different version ( maybe looks little crazy, but has an answer almost for everythink ) of Threshold and my chance agains it is about 20%...which seemed to me very subpar.
My playmate play it, he wons last two bigger Legacy tourney in our country with zero or one losing match.
So, I feel, that Faerie Stompy needs more universal cards. Chalice is great, but without it we have only four copies of FoW - it seemed to little. Another control cards? Some disrupt, more cantrip?? I agree with statement of somebody that 4 Trinket Mage is the right way - without Chalice we much more vulnerable. We have too little creatures.
Against this mentioned version of Threshold I have this problems - he has too counters against me. Unless I resolve Chalice in very few first turnas, I lost that game. Some games I lost due to manascrew. If he resolves Worship ( in 95% cases if he want ) I almost everytime lost. You almost can´t shut down his creatures. Enforcer is too big ( yes, I know, Sword of F/I + Psionoc Blast....but Mongoose is untargetable......Mongoose+Worship=gg )...........etc.
For me the worst of bad matchups.

Also I agree with cut off Faerie Conclaves. No game I wins thanks to it, few games I lost thanks to it. Maybe we need some returns of resolved permanents...but smart player of Threshlod has prepared counter for Rushing River.....

So, this is my first feelings...

Off Topic....I´m lucky for buy last three copies of Sea Drake....for 80 US, but I have it...:rolleyes:

And the decklist of mentioned Threshold for curious fellow:wink:

decklist:
lands:18-----------
4xflooted strand
4xwindswept heath
3xtropical island
2xtundra
2savannah
1xisland
1xforest
1xplains

spells:28--------
4xforce of will
4xdaze
2xcounterspell
4xserum vision
4xbrainstorm
3xpredict
1xcunning wish
3xswords to plowshares
3xworship

creatures:14-----------
4xnimble mongoose
4xwerebear
4meddling mage
2xmystic enforcer


+sideboard .....variable:o))
2xcounterspell
2xvoidslime
3xstifle
2xnaturalise
1xmoment peace
1xswords to plowshares
1xboomerang
1xcapsize
1xmana short
1xteferi´s response

?
(1xkrosan reclamation
2xchill
4xpithing needle)

Oh one thing I forgot to mention, in addition to the 4th Trinket Mage, and running War Beast over Sea Sprite...

Ever since I started running Rushing River, I've felt like bringing in Trinisphere again.

With the ability to bounce back threats, I've been loving Chalice and feel like runnign even more disruption. Trinisphere does a great job esp combined with Chalice and Rushing River, to slow your opponent down to a crawl.

Now I haven't tested the card yet, but was wondering if anyone else has.

Edit: Yeah I agree, Conclave sucks. The key to the thres matchup is infact Chalice. An early resolved chalice at 1 will win the game by itself which is why 4 Trinket Mages is so vital. I imagine a major reason that build is posing such a problem for you is the 3 maindeck Worship which combined with a Mongoose shut you out of the game entirely. So if you don't get out an early chalice for 1 to stop their Mongoose, they have a way to autowin. Fortunately, very few thres decks run Worship either MD or SB and are thus not a difficult match up for Fairie Stompy. Enforcer can be stolen with Binding Grasp, but Mongoose can't. Rushing River should help shore up that weakness against Worship. Bouncing back that Enforcer and/or Worship for one turn should be enough to win the game esp if you can bait a counter with something else (Chalice for 1 first) and play around daze. So if I were in your situation having to often play that deck, I would considering running ~2-3 Rushing Rivers with more in the sideboard unless someone has a better idea (like enchantment hate, which blue seems to lack). And don't forget to save your FoWs for Worship.

Also Trinisphere is everybit as solid agianst Thres as Chalice is, so you should consider running a few of those as well and your percentages should go up dramatically.

P.S. Anyone know why the strongest most versatile and most bombastic deck in Legacy (this deck) still isn't in the metagame forum yet? It put up great results everytime it was run and anywhere it was run including MWS and the last D4D. A very different but never the less a deck that was an earlier version of this very same development project, see Lego Army Man's early list, 1/2 split at the dual land draft.

SuckerPunch It seems you are cutting a lot of blue cards for brown cards. Thats ok, but make sure that you can still fuel FoW. You also have moxen, so thats a total of 8 remove-a-blue-spell-from-your-hand cards. Its not relevant yet, but if you plan to squeeze in trinisphere, you might lack some blue spells in the games.

I really think players sould cut Psionic Blast. I find it very suboptimal, and I always seem to pith it to Mox or FoW. There is a reason why goblins or any red decks don't run Char. (damn you Eugene Levin).. xD

Lille, the build I posted above runs the exact same number of blue spells as past builds. It cut Jitte and runs Rushing River, 4th Trinket Mage, and now is running Thirst for 6 draw spells where Psionic Blast used to be. Those two Thirst will probably get the boot for 2 Jitte or 2 Trinispheres though, and I will be running 2 less blue spells than other builds. Then your post above might apply. But then, I'll probably sub Sea Sprite back in for War Beast

I agree completely. Psionic Blast sucks in a decent number of situations.

You already lose a ton of life to Tomb. Theres lots of situations (goblins) where you would rather this be a source of disruption (Rushing River, Trinisphere, Jitte, or even card draw ala Thirst), than a way to speed up the goblins win against you, all just to take down one measly creature of theirs.

Rascal - I agree that Threshold is a tough matchup, even without Worship. In my testing, the matchup is slightly in Thresholds favor. Basically, we must resolve Chalice in order to win. It's not a bad idea to try to mull into a good Chalice hand. Trinisphere is probably the next best thing to Chalice so they are a good inclusion for that matchup. If Worship is a problem, I suggest including some Engineered Explosives. They are fetchable with Trinket and can destroy Goose (and Needle on Jitte/SoFI).

Phyrexian Warbeast - I considered it but I already have too many problems with Tin Street Hooligan in my testing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lillelassie

I really think players sould cut Psionic Blast. I find it very suboptimal, and I always seem to pith it to Mox or FoW. There is a reason why goblins or any red decks don't run Char. (damn you Eugene Levin).. xD

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Red doesn't need Char for direct damage, as it already has Bolt, Jets, Chains, Fanatics, and friends. With mono-U, you have access to three direct-damage instants: Psionic Blast, Psychic Purge, and Suffocation. Suffocation's too narrow to be useful outside of a sideboard in a burn-heavy environment, and Psychic Purge is a worse Lava Dart that's a bomb against Deadguy. Psi Blast can easily finish a game, toast a blocker so your equipped creatures can swing with a SoFaI, or finish off creatures with a lot of toughness. Yeah, the two damage sucks, but I'd gladly take two (or even four with Tombs) to fry a Mage or Warchief, or finish an Angel.

You equip flyers, so the only blockers you could be speaking of are Mystic Enforcer, and Exalted Angel. That example doesn't work in either case.

I would rather bounce two 2cc goblins with a chalice already set for 2, or a Enforcer + Mage back to the opponents hand with Rushing River, attack with all my creatures without worrying about Enforcer blocking to win the game. I would certainly prefer to fetch an Engineered Explosives off the 4th Trinket Mage you now have room to run, to slaughter more goblins or that Pithing Needle stopping your Swords.

Both situations certainly sound stronger than doing 4 damage to yourself by playing Blast off of Tomb to take out a Warchief, only to die next turn because your life is too low. But then again, those are biased examples, as are the examples you provided (not meant as a flame). The only way to get the right answer is to try out both cards.

I play in an extremely random metagame. Ok, so it is actually a wierd extended, sorta T2, Legacy format. I really see non of teh standard decks in Legacy unless I play at a larger tournament. I love this deck though. My question is what would you replace Chalice of the Void with? It will do nothing in my meta. Any ideas? Thanks.

How can Chalice of the Void do nothing in your meta?... Isn't anyone playing 1-2cc spells?... It's one of the best cards in the deck and a great proactive answer to a lot of cards in your opponent's game...

He could be playing in a meta where everyone runs ineffecient curves, slow decks, and mostly 3cc and 4cc cards.

The simple rule is, if you play in a meta where Chalice of the Void isn't powerful, play solidarity. You'll win before they even get a threat on the board.

In theory, yes.

But in such a meta, with a bunch or random aggro and horrible curves, some of the better players will start playing random jank like humility, worship and other cards to crush those aggro decks.

Those hurt Fairie Stompy too, and without it's chalices, it's not really worthwhile running it anyways when you could run Solidarity which would truly own any and all sorts of random jank.

Do any of you guys ever feel like Sea Drake is subpar when compared to Serendib Efreet or Phyrexian War Beast.

On one hand yes War Beast can't fly, can't be pitched and is vulnerable to artifact destruction.

On the other hand, Sea Drake dies to just one burn spell and most importantly is damn near unplayable early on unless you also happen to have a Chrome Mox in hand with you. That's kind of sucked for me... having to wait till turn 3 or 4 till I have no more lands to play, to play Sea Drake when he's my only threat unless I have a Chrome Mox and 2 mana land in hand, which doesn't happen that often. Otherwise, the tempo loss of returning two lands to hand is just too massive.

Does anyone else share this experience.

I agree with you about the faster clock Eldariel, I agree with you.

The main times when I wish it's a war beast is when he's the only threat in my hand, or the only one I can resolve. You only run a few threats afterall.

When you're not able to play your only threat till the 4th turn (or 3rd turn sometimes), it slows you down a lot.

@SuckerPunch:
Sea Drake does in fact have NO disadvantages with it's CIP ability. There is no danger in casting Sea Drake without the required lands in play. The current wording states that you simply return two lands you control. That is it. If you control only 1 land, then it's returned. There is no "or sacrifice" clause on it.

Sea Drake, unlike Serendib, can enable a turn 4 kill with SoFI.

And as for your argument about removal, Chalice for 1 shuts down the two biggest culprits of Sea Drake killers - Bolt and Swords.

The subtext of your entire argument is that Sea Drake costs far too much to acquire, which isn't really that bad compared to Grim Tutor.

I took a similiar list to what Eldariel has posted to my local tournament this Saturday and took second with it. Chalice is really powerful if you can get equiped creature on the board and this deck is really good at doing that.

One issue I had with my build were mana issues, which I don't think can be fixed without loosing alot of the deck's speed. In my final matchup I scrubbed out hard to B/W LD. I think perhaps running four Misdirection in the sideboard might be in order, as it can deal with both Wasteland and Sinkhole. Pithing Needle only deals with Wasteland, and is not very compatible with the Chalices.

Also, I'm not entirely convinced a creature like Sea Sprite is the best choice. SotF gives your creatures Pro red anyways, and Chalices do quite alot to mitigate the deck's suseptibility to burn. I haven't played Faerie stompy competitively against Goblins, but I've matched against it many times on my own, and I'd almost always rather see Cloud of Faeries, Trinket Mage, Sea Drake, or Serendib Efreet in these matchups. Soratami Cloudskater is something I'm considering, but I'm still trying to determine if I even need a fifth type of creature.

Running one Pithing Needle maindeck didn't seem very helpful to me. When I dropped a Trinket Mage, I would fetch Chalice, as it almost without exception would do more to improve my position then a solitary Pithing Needle would. I think a better approach would be to move all the Needles to the board, and then when playing against Goblins or whatever, side out all the Chalices and side in the Pithing Needles.