[Deck] Vial Affinity

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1. Myr Enforcer just sucks.
2. Atog + Fling is the freaking NUTZ.
3. Thoughtcast isn't good enough to justify running a third color.

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1.) Why does Enforcer suck?

2.) Atog + Fling are good cards, and obviously they work well together (I've enjoyed the 'combo' for a while). However, using these cards often requires you to overextend. It is easy to see where these are good, but I suppose it is harder to see where they are not as good. Even worse, both of these cards really only shine when you are in a position in which you are already winning or dominant. This is still a flashy combo, much like Stifle+Dreadnought, but it not one that is worth the sacrifices of consistency. However, I will say, I like the explosive possibilities. But, honestly, the odds of 3rd/4th turn Flinging a sacced-out board to Atog that actually connects is fairly low, and the mana requires are steep as well.

3.) Why isn't thoughtcast good enough to justify running a third color?


peace,
4eak

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Originally Posted by 4eak

1.) Why does Enforcer suck?

2.) Atog + Fling are good cards, and obviously they work well together (I've enjoyed the 'combo' for a while). However, using these cards often requires you to overextend. It is easy to see where these are good, but I suppose it is harder to see where they are not as good. Even worse, both of these cards really only shine when you are in a position in which you are already winning or dominant. This is still a flashy combo, much like Stifle+Dreadnought, but it not one that is worth the sacrifices of consistency. However, I will say, I like the explosive possibilities. But, honestly, the odds of 3rd/4th turn Flinging a sacced-out board to Atog that actually connects is fairly low, and the mana requires are steep as well.

3.) Why isn't thoughtcast good enough to justify running a third color?


peace,
4eak

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Enforcer sucks because I can't consistently drop it on the 3rd turn. I don't like passing that turn with an Enforcer in my hand. Besides, a vanilla 4/4 isn't all that great in this format.

On its own merits, Thoughtcast is a good draw spell. However, I found that the manabase just didn't support 3 colors as consistently as I would like. I too often would be stuck with uncastable colored spells in my hand. That's why I switched to a BR build, replacing the Thoughtcasts with Bobs. I think Bobs fit very nicely in this deck, since your opponent usually won't have enough removal to go around for Ravagers, Disciples, Atogs, and Bobs. That presents another argument against Myr Enforcer, since flipping an Enforcer with Bob is bad times.

I win a LOT of games with the Atog + Fling combo. It's just ridiculous.

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Enforcer sucks because I can't consistently drop it on the 3rd turn. I don't like passing that turn with an Enforcer in my hand. Besides, a vanilla 4/4 isn't all that great in this format.

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What if you cast enforcer on fourth turn average then, how is that not still good? How is a 4/4 artifact creature (which dodge's CC-removal) for nearly no mana cost not good?

The creature remains both cheap and relevant, and actually, relatively large against the average creature P/T. 4/4 is a win condition and a real threat from what I've seen, it is hardly "blah".

As for your consistency problems: What about your colored spell count, the mana curve of the deck, and the way you play an average hand in general--wouldn't these prevent you from casting Myr Enforcer as consistently? For example, dropping atog or confidant on 2nd turn instead of an artifact or two would definitely impact how you could play enforcers in your deck.

You'll need a better explanation than what you've given.

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On its own merits, Thoughtcast is a good draw spell. However, I found that the manabase just didn't support 3 colors as consistently as I would like. I too often would be stuck with uncastable colored spells in my hand. That's why I switched to a BR build, replacing the Thoughtcasts with Bobs. I think Bobs fit very nicely in this deck, since your opponent usually won't have enough removal to go around for Ravagers, Disciples, Atogs, and Bobs. That presents another argument against Myr Enforcer, since flipping an Enforcer with Bob is bad times.

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Vial Affinity does support 3 colors. This has been proven too many times. I'll admit, the mana base it isn't perfect (what 3 color deck is?), but it certainly does fine with the proper mana-smoothing.

Your findings will probably need more justification. Just from a cursory glance, I can see that your choice to run a higher colored spell count than the basic shell forces you into worse mana color curve positions, and yet, you fail to properly compensate in your mana-base for it. You beg the question as to whether your deck could support a 3rd color merely in virtue of the mana-base you use.

Not to mention: your deck would appear to have the same mana inconsistencies of which you believe you avoided by not using a third color.

Bob will need more justification. I outlined why I don't like him, perhaps you can start from there. Bob does not replace thoughtcast.

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I win a LOT of games with the Atog + Fling combo. It's just ridiculous.

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I've addressed this. First here:

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I will clarify a fairly universal principle for those individuals who wish to innovate and evolve affinity: There is a difference between a deck that can win a game and an optimal deck. Most every build posted can win a game or two, but some builds will win more than others. Optimal builds will have the best chance of winning (not just 'some chance'). Winning some is not the same as winning the most possible, but many fail to see this fact. This makes it difficult for many people to see why their tech is suboptimal or flat out sucks. They still win games in spite of their tech, not in virtue of their tech.

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And, secondly, I gave a summary as to why the combo itself is really not that amazing (because it really isn't consistent enough) in my previous post.

Telling me you won a lot of games with the combo doesn't mean anything. You could play 1 million games, and win 1% of them with your Atog/Fling combo, and still win 10,000 games (the point is exaggerated to explain the concept). 10,000 games is a lot of wins from Atog/Fling, but that doesn't mean it is optimal.

Show me why your choices are optimal, and if need be, please address the points I've made on these cards.


peace,
4eak

I should have been more precise with my language. Instead of saying "I win a lot of games with the Atog + Fling combo," I should have said "I win a large percentage of my games with the Atog + Fling combo." No, I haven't kept track of statistics or anything like that. I'm speaking anecdotally.

I'm just not as impressed with Myr Enforcer as you are. A vanilla 4/4 beater isn't scary in a format with Tarmogoyfs and goblin hordes. If it had evasion of some sort, that would be different. And as I said before, I found it frustrating to have an Enforcer or 3 sitting in my hand because I was 1 or 2 short on mana/affinity count.

As for the manabase/color issues, yes, I admit part of the problem is that I run a relatively large number of colored spells. But I like those colored spells. I think they make the deck better. For the sake of full disclosure, here is the manabase I started out with, back when I was running Thoughtcasts:

4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Glimmervoid

Yes, there are things I could have done to help keep the 3-color scheme intact, like replacing the Citadels with Cities. Honestly, I just didn't see the point, though. I think Bob is better than Thoughtcast. It's a "must counter," or a "must kill now" creature in a deck full of "must kill now" creatures.

Enforcer is wonderful if you want it to shine.

I run a grand total of 11 non-artifact cards... 4 of which are Thoughtcasts. Getting Enforcers stuck in my hand is rarely ever a problem. 2 Paradise Mantles help as well, while providing incidental acceleration as well as colour fixing.

Because I have 49 portions of Atog food, Fling is simply not needed to get a relevant number of turn-3-kills.

Thoughtcast often enables explosive plays the same turn, and is easy enough to cast that it can dig me out of a hole. Dark Confidant is too unwieldy by comparison.

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p.s.: The number of colours in Affinity is hardly relevant (dropping Citadel for the 4th coloured land type doesnt matter much); the total number of non-artifact cards is the limiting factor.

I think the versions with or without Myr Enforcer are great!

Also Fling and Shrapnelblast are both strong cards.

There are about 5 affinity decks viable in legacy and all of them are good.

Affinity Style:
1.) Classic with Myr Enforcer
2.) With Atog and Fling
3.) Paradis Mantel
4.) Somber Hoverguard and so...
5.) Dark Confidant instead of Though Cast

You could put 2 or 3 styles together or just run one straight way...

Im glad Volt is so good at this game..

Myr Enforcer is just terrible in legacy. He's obviously good in a normal affinity deck that doesnt need to compete with a 4/5 for 2 or 10 goblins on turn one or even 10 zombies on turn 2. This isnt extended. A 4/4 for even 2 colorless mana is just not as good as it should be. He has no evasion and he's just terrible in multiples in your opening hand.

Myr Enforcer is the suck against Goblins, who can port/wasteland you, fanatic and gempalm your artifacts, and then just chump block the 4/4 vanilla all day if it actually gets cast. Tin Street Hooligan is never happier than when he sees this fat fool across the table.

Dark Confidant is the way to go and Thoughtcast isnt worth splashing a third color. Look at my last builds of Vial Affinity to see where I went with it before swapping to AfFOWnity. Far superior and much more threat dense. (which supports enforcer better ironically.)

First, good job for your article, i think it took you a lot of time.
But, i don't agree with you about some points:

a) the list, in particular the mana base: no citadel which is for me the best first land for the turn 1, 6 no artifact lands when you knows that artifact lands are essential to develop your affinity engine (i can understand 3 nexus but no 3 glimmervoid), and only 18 lands when ravager eats them to survive in fights.
Then there are some details not very important like only 3 star(4 is better), 4 plating (imho 3 is better because it's slow) and 3 shrapnel but for this one i understand your arguments and it seems to be coherent.

b) God knows how much i like enforcer, it is excellent in raffinity, but the reason is that i prefer confident than thoughcast now... i explain:

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the fundament problem with Dark Confidant is a.) he is subject to removal

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for me it's a quality in this deck, no body will spent a counter against thoughcast but everybody will spent a blast against confident so it's a blast in less for your other creatures like ravager (one of your kill), disciple and a creature with plating (note: Like confident, enforcer is subject to removal like gemmpalm, sword to plowshares; the most played). If no body spent a blast for bob, then you should win thanks to bob's CA;

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he takes up the fundamental turn 2 (2 mana) slot

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No. If you have ravager or plating, play them (but in some match up, if you have a vial, you should play ravager via vial), if you haven't, play confident, where is the problem?

you said thoughcast > confident, i don't agree because:
- you are an aggro deck, confident is a creature so he is in your plan and always a thraten for an adversary
- in the worst case, you don't draw because your opponent blasts him but you save another creature (so a threaten) what it's better (imho) than drawing two cards (not inevitably 2 threatens) for one card. Else, confident does the same (or more) than thoughcast with an extra: a block, a fighter or a lightning conductor.

but you have to run enforcer....
If you analize the evolution of the metagame (with a lot of tarmogoyf now), a 4/4 in turn 4 (because you put it in turn 3 in 10% of the case) is not any more a good thing (for an optimal raffinity's list)
i don't want to repeat but bane of the living said it very well.


c) it's not a disappointment but a regret: you didn't analyze your match up with the deck :(
what are your stats against gob? threshold/goyf? combo? pikula?

@4eak: I am afraid i don't understand some of your choices. For one, the inclusion arcbound worker over atog. I know tog can be a liability, but a decent player won't sac their entire board if their opponent has an untapped plains (almost every deck with white has 4x StP). Even sacing a few extra lands / stars / vials / thopters to bait out that creature hate can do wonders. The only other widely played creature hate is diabolic edict, bolts, and sweepers which are all easy to play around. Also, tog + DotV is nice when ravager is out of reach.

Another thing i fail to understand is the exclusion of darksteel citadel. You should fear EE at 0, and pernicious deed, especially with their increasing popularity. Citadels really help against these cards, as well as possible waste-locks. I don't advocate running 4, but a couple can really help (plus they are artifacts).

Other than those 2 things, that is essentially the build i would run. I really have had bad luck running a 4th color for berserk / naturalize. These are great cards, but 4 colors w/o mantle rarely works out well for me. Cutting the thoughcasts has not worked well for me either...

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Originally Posted by honz

Another thing i fail to understand is the exclusion of darksteel citadel. You should fear EE at 0

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2, Sacrifice Engineered Explosives: Destroy each nonland permanent with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Engineered Explosives.

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Myr Enforcer is the suck against Goblins, who can port/wasteland you, fanatic and gempalm your artifacts, and then just chump block the 4/4 vanilla all day if it actually gets cast. Tin Street Hooligan is never happier than when he sees this fat fool across the table.

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No offense, but this is a terrible argument.

Port/wasteland is way more effective at preventing affinity from casting COLORED spells, such as what you've advocated: Dark confidant. Enforcer is actually much, much stronger is the face of mana-denial (in fact, that is one of the greatest strengths of "affinity").

Secondly, fanatic and gempalm are even more deadly against something like Confidant than Enforcer. Unlike most creatures, Enforcer actually lives through a lot of damage-based removal. This is an asset against goblins.

Third, Hooligan exists to hit the most relevant artifact on the table, and you just said that Hooligan is best used ('never happier') against Enforcer. Are you saying Enforcer, on average, is the most relevant artifact on the table? That sounds like you are actually advocating the use of Enforcer. While I'm advocating the use of Enforcer, I'm certainly not going to imply that Hooligan should be targeting him. Ravager, Vial, Plating, and hell...even possibly a vial or ornithopter would be much better targets.

Hooligan and removal do not make Enforcer less viable. Chump blocking is a somewhat lackluster argument against Enforcer, which remains a card that they are forced to deal with. Chump blocking means I'm winning the game in general. If I'm swinging into Goblins in the first place, then I am the attacker and Goblins is in a losing position.

Moving on:

I'm surprised how people assumed that I don't believe Darksteel Citadel is a viable inclusion in the basic vial affinity shell.

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the list, in particular the mana base: no citadel which is for me the best first land for the turn 1

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Another thing i fail to understand is the exclusion of darksteel citadel.

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Did you all read what I've written? Here, this is what I said:

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As a metagame deck, affinity can be tailored somewhat. For example, in many cases Atog is brokenly good, and in other matchups it can be terrible...

...In a vacuum, you’d want to start with the above shell. Darksteel Citadel and Atog are also very viable components of a basic shell, but their inclusion may require more justification. Again, given a specific metagame, adjustments should be made. Cards outside the card pool I’ve mentioned have yet to be properly justified....

...The other staples:

These remain somewhat interchangeable with other components of the basic shell.

Darksteel Citadel—Depending on the metagame, this can be a solid choice. In a vacuum, this card is subpar. It would definitely be quite possible to see 3 of these in affinity given the right metagame.

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I'm not saying don't run Darksteel Citadel; I definitely see the need to run it in many cases. However, Darksteel Citadel does require justification (and this is to achieve). So, if you anticipate heavy wasteland and deed, then definitely go for Darksteel Citadel. With that said, there are several cases where Darksteel Citadel is unnecessary. The fact is: not every metagame requires Darksteel Citadels.

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4 plating (imho 3 is better because it's slow)

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Plating is the second strongest card in the deck. Taking a plating out is fairly close to taking a ravager out of the deck. If you are going to be spending mana in this deck, it should be on this card. You want to see this card every single game, it is an automatic 4-of...

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you said thoughcast > confident, i don't agree because:
- you are an aggro deck, confident is a creature so he is in your plan and always a thraten for an adversary
- in the worst case, you don't draw because your opponent blasts him but you save another creature (so a threaten) what it's better (imho) than drawing two cards (not inevitably 2 threatens) for one card. Else, confident does the same (or more) than thoughcast with an extra: a block, a fighter or a lightning conductor.

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It is clear that Affinity needs card draw.

Confidant is a creature, and he can beat down. Generally, Confidant never gets the chance to attack because a.) removal and b.) blockers. Confidant can fill the role of an attacker, but most of the time does not--if he is attacking, generally, you were in a winning position to begin with. Because of this, I've found the card to be a one-sided howling mine that: costs 1 more than Thoughtcast, is highly subject to creature removal, and requires 3 turns in play to match thoughtcast's CA.

Thoughtcast always draws. It is not subject to removal. More importantly, Thoughtcast draws NOW. Immediate draw means immediate game winning threats. It means I get that Arcbound Ravager now, or it means I get my Shrapnel blast or red mana source. The difference between drawing now and drawing later is absolutely huge in an aggro deck like affinity.

I know that Dark Confidant, left unchecked, can win games. The point is: he is too easy to keep in check. Having him removed isn't like having another creature removed: you relied upon that card slot to draw cards. Removal simply becomes even more relevant against affinity when you run Confidant instead of thoughtcast.

Additionally, we have to realize, if Confidant is left unchecked, then generally everything else on the board is left unchecked, and in that case, you were already winning. Confidant's CA is a win-more ability. Thoughtcast will win you games that you shouldn't be winning because it draws you card now rather than later.

Affinity needs to win the game as early as possible. Dark Confidant belongs in a control/disruption deck that seeks to extend the game. Card roles assign deck roles: confidant's role is not aggro, it is aggro-control. In order to abuse this card, your games need to be longer. An aggro-combo deck like Affinity should not be using this card.

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I am afraid i don't understand some of your choices. For one, the inclusion arcbound worker over atog.

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Removing arcbound worker is simply wrong. He is a fundamental first turn play. Please address what I've written on the arcbound worker. Additionally, I didn't say not to run Atog either if you noticed. However, when I do run Atog, I never take arcbound workers out for them.

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Other than those 2 things, that is essentially the build i would run. I really have had bad luck running a 4th color for berserk / naturalize. These are great cards, but 4 colors w/o mantle rarely works out well for me. Cutting the thoughcasts has not worked well for me either...

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I agree that running green is incorrect in this deck. As for the naturalize, please remember that we can easy run these in the side with Glimmervoids and Stars.


peace,
4eak

@4eak: I'll admit, you're making some good points about Thoughtcast. I'm going to try to tweak my manabase and go back to the 3-color build. I'm not buying your arguments about Myr Enforcer, though. I found them to be pretty consistently weak.

Hello everybody!

I just wanted to ask a quick question, which may be a little out of context...
So imagine you had access to gems like skullclamp (4), sol ring (1) and tinker (1).
Would you put them into the deck? (naturally only casually)
If so, how many and what would you be cutting?

Lets assume this slightliy modified basic shell list suggested by 4eak:

24 Creatures
4x Disciple of the Vault
2x Arcbound Worker
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Myr Enforcer
4x Ornithopter
2x Atog

18 Spells
4x Aether Vial
4x Thoughtcast
4x Cranial Plating
3x Shrapnel Blast
3x Chromatic Star

18 Land
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Great Furnace
3x Blinkmoth Nexus
2x Glimmervoid
1x Darksteel Citadel

Would it be possible to cut a land for sol ring?

Of course I would also like to comment on the discussion a little, apart from my question, which I know is irrelevant to the actual deck.

Concerning Thougtcast vs. Dark Confidant: I believe valid points have been made for both sides. To me Confidant is too fragile. The fact that he is a creature maeks him obviously easier to deal with. As far as I can tell puddn sees the following advantages: a "block, a fighter or a lightning conductor."

Concerning Dark Confidant as a lightning conductor: So he died instead of a future threat. How will you get that future threat, now that your draw engine is gone? >Top Deck mode?

Concerning Dark Confidant as a fighter: Have you actually used him to beat down on your opponent other than in a winning situation? Just curious, I haven't tried him out, but I would imagine there to be too many blockers to risk losing my draw engine, or many other viable attackers.

Concerning Dark Confidant as a block: This actually seems like an option. I see this happening in 2 situations: 1) You are losing: You are probably just stalling the inevitable. 2) You are in a damage race: Sounds like a good option, not much to argue here.

Actually he is black, so we do not go into a third color,that is a plus too.

Still, that does not beat the advantages which Thoughtcast brings to the table in my book. I cannot outline the advantages any better than 4eak has...

So much for now.

EDIT: I am really curious about Bane of the Living latest build. You are suggesting Dark Confidant instead of Thoughcast as well, but you give no reasons. But you make it sound like you have made real progress. If possible it would be very welcome, if you could share your experience!

I don't know about tinker, but skullclamp + sol ring would definitely be included in the deck. -1 mox + sol ring, -2 atog -2 chromatic star +4 clamp.

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Originally Posted by Observer

Hello everybody!


EDIT: I am really curious about Bane of the Living latest build. You are suggesting Dark Confidant instead of Thoughcast as well, but you give no reasons. But you make it sound like you have made real progress. If possible it would be very welcome, if you could share your experience!

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I know that Bane (Nate) would have a different opinion then myself about dark confidant in Affinity. This is my take on the whole debate. I do not like splashing blue for thoughtcast in Legacy for Vial Affinity at all. I believe the format is too fast for the card and splashing blue does not add anything useful in your sideboard.

Dark Confidant is a very solid creature in Affinity and would probably replace my 3 Myr Enforcer slots in my current build if I decided to go with Bob. I feel that Dark Confidant is a better option than thoughtcast, I believe its slow in a lot of matchups currently which isn't worth playing. I do for aggressive speed when I play Affinity.

I believe thats the best strategy to go with in such as fast format, especially with all the combo and ichroid decks cropping up. I'm currently still splashing green for main deck Berserk as I'm a really big fan of that card.

What do some of the other players think?

Hi, I'm a new member but have been reading for a long time. I was hoping for some more sideboard discussion with this deck. I have not played much Legacy beyond a paltry local scene but I am going to play at the championships in GenCon and I am between this and Threshold. It seems like this deck should be Threshold except for the problem of Tarmogoyf, and I played this deck a ton during Mirrodin Block so I am more comfortable with it. I am not sure what I'm up against, though, which make things like Cabal Therapy tricky. I am pretty confident in my main board, I feel like Bob isn't very good in this deck because he isn't guaranteed card draw like Thoughtcast and I like Fling as a finisher over Shrapnel Blast, but I wouldn't play more than 2. I also feel like Darksteel Citadel is very important. The only thing I am unsure of is Mishra's Factory vs. Blinkmoth Nexus. Anyway, my main board is

4 arcbound worker
4 arcbound ravager
4 disciple of the vault
4 frogmite
2 myr enforcer
2 atog
3 ornithopter

3 cranial plating
2 fling
4 thoughtcast
4 aether vial
4 chromatic star

2 mishra's factory
2 glimmervoid
4 darksteel citadel
4 seat of the synod
4 vault of whispers
4 great furnace

my sideboard is currently:
3 tormod's crypt
3 engineered plague
3 pithing needle
3 pyroblast
3 cabal therapy

i think those are definitely the cards to have in the sideboard, but i'm not sure on the numbers. i'd like to have 4 of them all, really. how important is tormod's crypt right now? it seems like the most likely cut, and pyroblast and cabal therapy seem very much like they could due to be 4's. most importantly i just don't know what to take out. i'd like some advice on sideboard strats against goblins, zoo (nothing?), threshold, various forms of combo, rock-style decks and board control / classic style decks (wombat, etc) and also what to name with cabal therapy against the various combo decks (iggy pop, solidarity, etc).

Thanks! Love the forum.

Aldaryn

I wish you the best of luck at the Legacy Championship at GenCon. I wish I was able to make it down there for the tournament. I believe Affinity is a decent choice, but with all the combo decks going around the sideboard needs to be built in order for you to have at least a fighting chance after game 1.

I'm not a fan of Threshold at the moment b/c I feel it has lost a lot of its power when it comes to dealing with the more popular decks in the format. If you want to play a control deck, I believe Landstill to be the best overall choice right now. Affinity does beat Threshold, even with Tarmogoyf now. Tarmogoyf gives them a better fighting chance, but the matchup still favors Affinity in a landslide.

I wish you the best of luck and hope to hear a report on how GenCon went for you. Take Care.

Thanks. What would you recommend for the combo decks? I don't know how any of them work as far as their spell-ramping engines, but I'm assuming they are all based on storm cards (empty the warrens, brain freeze, tendrils of agony). So would you recommend Stifle in the sideboard? Or should I be attempting to stop them earlier than that? What cards should I be naming with Pithing Needle or Cabal Therapy?

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Affinity needs to win the game as early as possible

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Wow! 0_o?
So you want to race combo without atog (i didn't see him in your list) and no berserk? no sense
So you want to play quickly against aggro-control deck like UW/UWB Fish and ******** decks? Are you sure you can win against them with no hand at turn 3/4? FoW, counterspell, maybe daze, sword to plowshare, bolt, fire ice, etc..
I don't think that your list is with your strategy coherent

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4 plating (imho 3 is better because it's slow)
Plating is the second strongest card in the deck. Taking a plating out is fairly close to taking a ravager out of the deck. If you are going to be spending mana in this deck, it should be on this card. You want to see this card every single game, it is an automatic 4-of...

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it's just a detail, not an essential point. Today maybe i play 3 plating, maybe tomorrow i'll play 4.

So your draw engine is only 4 cards, you can use each one time without the certainty to draw a threats, and each thoughcast isn't a threat for the opponent.
Then confident is a threat, he can do more than thoughcast, and bob x4 + chromatic star x4 is enough to be a good draw engine.
I'm going to answer to Observer:

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oncerning Dark Confidant as a lightning conductor: So he died instead of a future threat. How will you get that future threat, now that your draw engine is gone? >Top Deck mode?

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I don't play only dark confidant in my list ;)
to start i draw 7 cards like you with the same number of threats, if DC is killed it's ok i put my other threats and it gives me time to draw an other DC or to make more pressure

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Concerning Dark Confidant as a fighter: Have you actually used him to beat down on your opponent other than in a winning situation? Just curious, I haven't tried him out, but I would imagine there to be too many blockers to risk losing my draw engine, or many other viable attackers.

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DC + plating is good! With 4 DC + 4 chromatic star i have no fear about my draw engine

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Concerning Dark Confidant as a block: This actually seems like an option. I see this happening in 2 situations: 1) You are losing: You are probably just stalling the inevitable. 2) You are in a damage race: Sounds like a good option, not much to argue here.

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yes it's an option, not a very good but an option. Vial + DC in instant to block is a good surprise too


other essential points:
- worker is needed x4! no negociation possible
- Artifact lands are essential to develop your affinity engine, and in all the metagames you need citadel x4

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Originally Posted by Observer

EDIT: I am really curious about Bane of the Living latest build. You are suggesting Dark Confidant instead of Thoughcast as well, but you give no reasons. But you make it sound like you have made real progress. If possible it would be very welcome, if you could share your experience!

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I play Chrome Mox in my build with a lower land count. It lets me do things like accelerate into Engineered Plauge or drop turn one Plating/Bob.

Turn one Bob is amazing and surprizingly so is turn one Plating. You want to get it online before Daze sometimes.

Chrome Mox is great in the Black Red build since you only have the two colors of cards to imprint and cast, making it more usefull and hitting double black for plating much more easy.

Mox is one of the reasons I opt to run Shrapnal Blast over Fling. I dont like that fling sets you up for 2 card disadvantage. Fling also needs Ravager/Tog to shine when Blast only needs something brown and isnt needed as a finisher.
Reactive reach is amazing.

Confidant is way better than Thoughtcast for a number of reasons. It eats a Swords to Plowshares for you, which Thoughtcast cant do. This seems bad since you might not get to draw cards but Thoughcast can likely get countered regardless. If your opponent shoots down Confidant your Disciple and Ravager race out of the floodgates unscathed.

He's another reason to have Vial in the deck. I always felt Aether Vial was lacking in the deck with only 3 tog 4 rav to max it on. We dont have matrons and Ringleaders to fix the vial with appropriate goblins so we rely on what we have each game. Confidant is vial friendly and can get your card advantage online uncounterably which cant be done with Thoughtcast. Confidant doesnt need affinity to be played cheap and that can be an issue when your restarting the game (Deed) or not chaining artifacts well. (no vial/thopter ect)

Confidant also wears Plating which is such a big deal its not funny.

The only possible downside to playing him is taking seven from Enforcer but if your still playing these your in trouble anyways. Dont even get me going on how bad Enforcer is.

Always play Nexus over Factory. Flying makes a world of difference when your playing equipment that gives a guy +8/+0.