Leyline of the Mask wont do anything against combo, it stops their kill not their engine. Might be an issue for type 2 combo decks, but certainly not Legacy's...
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Leyline of the Mask wont do anything against combo, it stops their kill not their engine. Might be an issue for type 2 combo decks, but certainly not Legacy's...
This, especially considering the removal cards for hate bears (bounce) and Counterbalance (Grip) both hit this card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grollub
The white Leyline has potential to be awesome, until now white was pathetically bad against combo, and while this card alone doesn't make you win the game, it gives you enough time to play more effective cards that previously were too slow to matter in those matchups.
Does the print of Reverberate mean that wizards is willingful to "almost reprint" cards in the reserved list if required?
I think the best comp on Mask Leyline is True Believer, same effect on a hatebear. It sees no play in place of Teeg and Canonist. Part of that is casting cost (WW is tougher for most decks than WG or 1W) but it's also partly because many of the decks you'd want that effect against are eminently capable of wasting a 2/2. Putting the effect on an Enchantment or an Instant for that matter (see Gilded Light) changes the equation quite a bit, putting it on an enchantment that can begin the game in play is huge, because it gives non-blue decks a chance against the dreaded T1 kill.
I don't think opening it vs. combo is a "win" anymore that opening Leyline of the Void is a "win" against Dredge or Loam or Lands. But it sure does help, and at the very least likely buys you a few turns so that you can actually play in the game. I think it will see at least Void levels of play in Legacy, and possibly more given the lower number of alternatives and the sheer variety of spells and effects it neuters, from Chants to burn to discard to edicts to Gifts Ungiven to various planeswalker abilities - looking at you fatesealing Jace2.
From a pure "hose combo" perspective, Rule of Law would have been a better leyline, but this is definitely more interesting, and much less likely to be broken.
By the looks of it, yes. We did get a "fixed" Maze of Ith and Survival of the Fittest with legs.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJones
It's quite possible that it simply gives you trollshroud instead of regular shroud, so it can play nice with targeted card drawing, lifegain, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
"Fixed" maze of ith is terrible, Kor Haven has a better ability (it doesn't trigger CipT triggers of your opponent's creature and can be used on your creature) and cost 1W instead of 4. This at 3 would have been already unplayable in legacy considering haven saw no play, at 4 it will see play probably only in standard. Seriously, the snowed land that deal 4 damage is probably better.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...3ta850j_EN.jpg
This looks interesting as a singleton Trinket Mage target.
I hope so. I just sold a bunch of my staples to help pay for learny-books.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJones
http://img707.imageshack.us/g/img0216br.jpg/
Look what Salvation found.
So it's been spoiled to give Troll Shroud, so it's pretty much better than Ivory Mask in every way.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRock
It won't break the format or anything, but I'll throw away my Ivory Masks and replace them with these Leylines as soon as they come out.
I am with you on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
While we're at it, lets have a petition to get Ivory Mask banned. Maybe its price will spike up to $40 when it speculated to be reintroduced to Legacy.
Fixed Howling Mine? Again, this is another pretty freaking interesting card in stax shells because you get to utilize 2 draws before the opponent, and you already have a shitload of soft card advantage and tempo advantage what with the land destruction and Tangle Wire and whatnot.Quote:
Temple Bell - 3
Artifact
Tap: Both players draw a card.
The Leyline is definitely worth playing. One of White's largest problems was having great little hate bears galore, but it plain had to sit over there and look sad while people went off first or second turn. Canonist, True Believer, and pals were only good if you could dump them before the combo player just went nuts on you.
This buys a turn or more while they dig up a bounce spell. It might be all you needed to get the hate going. Glowrider is a gigantic pain in the butt if he gets out there and this leyline buys enough time to start up things like that. I love this Leyline just for that alone. Troll Shroud is a nice bonus.
I know I am seriously considering moving on and jumping off the combo ship. All this new hatred is getting silly.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahcmai
In fact I am thinking of jumping of the whole ship. It happens to me sometimes, but now the frequency is shorter and shorter with every set spoiled.
I would certainly not be sorry if more people played interactive magic in Legacy. Nor would WoTC.
Nowhere else to complain so I'm doing it here. What is with some of this horrible art. WTF is that on Voltaic Key, because it certainly doesn't look like a key. Ya know, I was thinking they wanted core sets to have true fantasy flava, and that is the opposite.
http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...e71e7js_EN.jpg
I wish Triskelion had the old pimpbot art.
[/complaining]
I used to play mask a lot versus combo years ago when it first came out, and frankly with the faster version I'd strongly consider using it. Using it with some large threats and back up hate does make the game more difficult for certain deck types and the card is flexible enough that it's not a dead slot against a variety of decks. It's use is going to be very meta dependent coupled with what decks out there use white and how they stack up.
I'm definitely going to play test it.
it might not be your concept of a key, but theres a lot of definitions to what a key is. One of them is "something that permits access", and the item in that picture seems to be magically granting access to some device, ergo looking perfectly like a key to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMogg
"I stand corrected," said the man in the orthopedic shoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by DownSyndromeKarl
So how about this one:
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/s...VoltaicKey.jpg
Pretty sweet, huh. By my definition of key it fits the flavour perfectly. :tongue:
haha, that's bitchin. I'd totally proxy that for VintageQuote:
Originally Posted by MMogg
http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...3sjjcb7_ES.jpg
HOLY GOD! Spanish disentomb has a bad translation, and it says that you return the creature to the battlefield. Better than reanimate. :lol:
LMAO nice find!Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJones
Is this yet another set with nothing for Legacy?
I think that the following cards have legacy potential (excluding reprints):Quote:
Originally Posted by Smmenen
Ajani's Pridemate
Knight Exemplar
Leyline of Sanctity
Serra Ascendant
Squadron Hawk
Leyline of Anticipation
Preordain
Stormtide Leviathan
Bloodthrone Vampire
Demon of Death's Gate
Liliana's Caress
Phylactery Lich
Reassembling Skeleton
Viscera Seer
Chandra's Spitfire
Leyline of Punishment
Manic Vandal
Autumn's Veil
Fauna Shaman
Garruk's Packleader
Leyline of Vitality
Brittle Effigy
Crystal Ball
Steel Overseer and
Temple bell.
Not all of them will make the cut, and some sleepers only need wizards to print more support in later expansions to make them good.
I'd go with a much smaller list:
Reassembling Skeleton (maybe, depends if theres a deck that wants this effect, but its ability is definitely "on power level")
Squadron Hawk (Death and Taxes wants to pair this up with Stoneforge Mystic to basically invalidate/overload point removal)
Crystal Ball (possibly the card that puts Stax over the top? Or possibly just another not quite this time)
Leyline of Sanctity (will see a lot of sideboard action)
Autumn's Veil (more sideboard stuff)
Preordain (Ponder 5-8, which means BS 9-12, which means use in a fairly limited number of decks)
Fauna Shaman (makes Elf decks marginally better)
And I think that's about it. However, from a core set, thats freaking amazing. Good job wizards.
Yes, Yes it is another set with nothing for Legacy. But, it is hella good for limited stand alone play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smmenen
Leyline of Sanctity
Preordain
Reassembling Skeleton
Autumn's Veil
Leyline of Vitality
Crystal Ball
Temple bell
Gotta go with that much adding Time Reversal and Redirect. Time Reversal is flat better than Diminishing Returns in some cases. It's a finesse card.
Redirect might be finally decent enough of an ability on a card with a casting cost that makes it playable. I plan to test it out though. I liked Divert well enough, but it lost it's appeal after a few turns, this one's good for longer. Might be worth it.
I'm surprised you put Leyline of Vitality on that list, you know the trick with it? I figured that was fairly innocuous so far.
I figured it was good in Zoo against Zoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahcmai
MMogg, I love you more and more.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMogg
Aww... sigged!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksandr
Voltaic Key's art probably has roots in early Magic the Gathering Lore. What the art probably is is a key comprised of various smaller power stones, which grants access to some Thran (or other powerstone driven civilization) device. At least that is my interpretation. I mean the original did come from the Urza's Saga set, so it stands to reason that it has something to do with the Thran since that was the civilization that all 3 of the main characters of that entire block (Mishra, Urza, and Yawgmoth) were obsessed with in one way or another. Even though I don't know whether Mishra actually made an appearance in the actual storyline of the Urza's block, but he was a fundamental character in shaping the background of the block.
Keeping in mind that the M11 art is also the art that appears on the version from the Phyrexia vs. the Coalition version of the card, making it even more likely that the art represents a key made from Power Stones.
Skeleton, I just don't see. I'd rather have Bloodghast.Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
I also don't see Squadron Hawk. I get that drawing one is like drawing four if it enters the battlefield, but it still costs eight mana to play all of them. Why not just play Spectral Procession and get three 1/1 flyers for three mana? Procession (although it was excellent in Standard) never made the cut in Legacy, so I don't see the attraction with Squadron Hawk.
Crystal Ball seems more like just another "not quite this time."
I agree that Leyline of Sanctity will see sideboard play, but I'm not sure about Autumn's Veil. There are better option out there.
Preordian doesn't seem great in the current Legacy. I don't see many decks that are running more than eight cantrips, and it doesn't measure up to Brainstorm and Ponder. Back in the day, Threshold lists would run up to 12 cantrips to help ramp up their Nimble Mongoose and Warebear. Those cards have fallen out of favor.
I don't think that Fauna Shaman makes elves better. I'm not sure what I would replace it with. It can't fetch a creature the turn it comes into play and it can only grab one creature at a time.
I think Shaman helps with games that go long, when you can trade in a Llanowar for a Joraga, or find a Viridian Shaman to hit a Chalice@1 or something. I understand the unfavorable comparison with Pact in that situation, but you can use Shaman on a turn when you're not ready to go off after playing your hate, but want to next turn, and its also a dude who's pumped by archdruid et. al. I don't think it's MUCH of an improvement to the deck, but I do think its a very minor one. However, there's also at least a reasonable probability that its not, so... meh.
Squadron Hawk > Procession because if you're just sticking equipment on something, you'd rather keep backups in your hand than put them all on the table and then wear down their removal by using equipment to make a bad card into an evasive threat every turn.
Squadron Hawk is better than Procession because of Brainstorm, and because it thins your deck, and because of equipment(like mentioned above). In terms of Brainstorm, adding it to the Brainstorm/Fetchland synergy allows you to essentially, use Hawk/Brainstorm as an Ancestral Recall.
You play Hawk, grabbing two Hawks, Brainstorm them away, and then crack your fetchland, shuffling them away. You just got 3 new cards and a 1/1 flyer for 3 mana. Sounds pretty good to me.
Honestly, in my opinion, Squadron Hawk should only be played as a 3-of, due to hand size issues as well as the Brainstorm thing; oftentimes you will only want to grab two Hawks. Of course, it might go to four Hawks because in lategame situations you might want the extra flyer, but...we'll see.
All I'm saying is: I hope I rip like 6 of them for my sealed prerelease tomorrow ;).
I suppose that makes sense about the Hawk. Extra cards is always nice with brainstorm. I suppose that with Stoneforge Mystic and fetchable equipment, it could also work in D&T. As for the Shaman, it still seems bad to me. However, I have to admit that I have not yet tested it in my survival elves deck. It might end up being better than I think.
Overall, I'll still say that M11 has very little to offer in terms of quality cards for top-tier decks (at least for the new cards).
Squadron Hawk also eats Cabal Therapy like no ones business. I am not liking the hawk in any build I can think of for Death and Taxes. For one thing you would have to decide on something to take out of the deck that is comparable, and the only slot that is even close to being comparable is that of Serra Avenger. And in all honesty Serra Avenger is so amazingly superior to the Squadron Hawk that it isn't even up for a debate. There really is no place for the hawk in the deck that I can see.
On the other hand there are people debating the inclusion of Sword of Vengeance in Death and Taxes. Personally I am not thrilled with the card, but I suppose it COULD work.
Squadron Hawk might eat Cabal Therapy like no ones business, it also enables Cabal Therapy like no ones business.Quote:
Squadron Hawk also eats Cabal Therapy like no ones business. I am not liking the hawk in any build I can think of for Death and Taxes. For one thing you would have to decide on something to take out of the deck that is comparable, and the only slot that is even close to being comparable is that of Serra Avenger. And in all honesty Serra Avenger is so amazingly superior to the Squadron Hawk that it isn't even up for a debate. There really is no place for the hawk in the deck that I can see.
On the other hand there are people debating the inclusion of Sword of Vengeance in Death and Taxes. Personally I am not thrilled with the card, but I suppose it COULD work.
Squadron Hawk sounds more fit in UW Tempo than in Death and Taxes. I think it would be interesting to see a UW Tempo build that cuts Fathom Seers and runs Squadron Hawk and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
I have to admit, outside of a Dredge deck... this is probably one of the best cabal therapy enabling engines that Wizards has come up with in ages. So that is true. However that said it does die to the very thing it enables, but in truth you have a very slim chance to come up against an opposing cabal therapy the very instant that you cast a squadron hawks. That said, I still think the hawks is significantly sub par to various other options available in white.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
I mean the hawk is basically the white version (without the trigger cost) of the Elf that searches for its compatriots when it is played or whatever it is. And that if I am not mistaken puts them directly onto the field. Yet that see's next to no play at all and is I think a 2/2. So really how much more play is a card that puts them into your hand when you cast the card creates 1/1's (even though they are flying 1/1's) and is a great deal more vulnerable to hate cards going to see?
This is a reprint. Hasn't done anything despite being legal for 3 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJones
it is basically a strictly worse nantuko husk or vampire aristocrat is it not? And how much play do either of those see in the format? They don't even get played in the Gate, a deck which could potentially abuse the sac outlet....