[Primer] R/G Lands

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Pitty, would have been nice to see more Lands in the top 8. What was your list?

---

I saw a couple of more guys playing Lands, but they were in the same bracket as I was. My list:

Spells (16)
4 Crop Rotation.
4 Punishing Fire.
4 Life from the Loam.
4 Gamble.

Other Spells (10)
2 Manabond.
4 Exploration.
4 Mox Diamond.

Lands (34)
1 Forest.
1 Karakas.
1 Ghost Quarter.
1 Glacial Chasm.
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.
1 Verdant Catacombs.
1 Windswept Heath.
1 Wooded Foothills.
2 Tranquil Thicket.
2 Taiga.
3 Maze of Ith.
3 Dark Depths.
4 Rishadan Port.
4 Wasteland.
4 Thespian's Stage.
4 Grove of the Burnwillows.

Sideboard (15)
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
1 Seismic Assault.
1 Bojuka Bog.
2 Choke.
2 Trinisphere.
4 Sphere of Resistance.
4 Krosan Grip.

Did a Trail on friday. Won against Omnitell on the following plays:
G1: he bashes my head in.
G2: I have a early Sphere out, and wait untill he taps out. Then on my turn I cast Choke. He concedes soon afterwards.
G3: I put Trinisphere on the board of his SnT. I then K-Grip his Omniscience. He concedes immediately.

My second round was against Painter-Stone, which I lost just 'narrowly'.
G1: a quick Blood Moon makes me Crop Rotate into Dark Depths in response. I win.
G2 and 3: not much luck, as he has everything and combo's out.

The main event started with a draw against Espher Stoneblade, win against Nic Fit (Extracting my DD in G2!), loss against Miracles and Shardless BUG. After a No Show-opponent, I descide to play one more round, and faced a homebrew Eva Green with Vials. He also played Extraction. As it was extremely hot at the venue, and some of my mates also dropped, we went into town for beer and food. Just want to add a last remark: all of my opponente were really nice guys. Unfortunately for me, they were also extremely lucky (having the answers on the right moments, or -like my Russian opponent- digging with two Brainstorms into Liliana after he forced me to make Marit Lage)

Hi, Alex here

My list for Lille was all very standard. I think the chalice wasn't needed and should have been another choke. The only time it really came up was playing against storm for the win and in for top 8. I Gambled with 3 non-land worthless cards in hand and 2 untapped mana. It was either a sphere or the chalice and I took a minute or two to decide but went for the sphere. My thinking was that I was miles away from winning myself and I would need every crop rotation and gamble that came along so chalice would have ruined my game as much as my opponent.

The Sphere worked out nicely in that round. My opp had everything needed to win apart from 2 mana in his pool when he cast his infernal tutor.

I also highly recommend the Bosejiu. It was the first time I tried it and it allowed me to go 2-1 in my miracles matches, one of witch was the eventually win of the GP who I beat in round 6.

Worst moment of the week was my opponent blind flipping a Clique of Counter Balance when I cast a Choke. I lost that game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skuttlespike

Hi, Alex here

My list for Lille was all very standard. I think the chalice wasn't needed and should have been another choke. The only time it really came up was playing against storm for the win and in for top 8. I Gambled with 3 non-land worthless cards in hand and 2 untapped mana. It was either a sphere or the chalice and I took a minute or two to decide but went for the sphere. My thinking was that I was miles away from winning myself and I would need every crop rotation and gamble that came along so chalice would have ruined my game as much as my opponent.

The Sphere worked out nicely in that round. My opp had everything needed to win apart from 2 mana in his pool when he cast his infernal tutor.

I also highly recommend the Bosejiu. It was the first time I tried it and it allowed me to go 2-1 in my miracles matches, one of witch was the eventually win of the GP who I beat in round 6.

Worst moment of the week was my opponent blind flipping a Clique of Counter Balance when I cast a Choke. I lost that game.

---

Congrats again, Alex.
Just one quick question (besides an appeal to post a report of your gp! ), why's the Karakas maindecked instead of Bog? Saw David Long do the same thing and couldn't figure out why.

Also returned from Lille. Won my second trial on Friday and went 6-3 on Saturday. Here's my little report:

the list:
Spells
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
4 Life From The Loam
4 Gamble
4 Crop Rotation
4 Punishing Fire
2 Manabond
1 Worm Harvest
1 Sylvan Library

Lands
1 Forest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Grove Of The Burnwillows
4 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Rishadan Port
4 Thespians' Stage
2 Dark Depths
1 The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Maze Of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm

Sideboard
3 Sphere Of Resistance
2 Trinisphere
2 Choke
1 Primeval Titan
1 Dark Depths
4 Krosan Grip
2 Stranglehold

I found Stranglehold to be a nice addition against Miracles, because turning off their fetches is one of the strongest things that I can do in the matchup. I playtested a lot and feel that this list has a positive % after SB against Miracles, maybe it's the best configuration without splashing other colors and extensive changes to the deck. Strangelhold can be optionally sided in against other matchups, but it's not that important as in case of Miracles.

trial 1
Sneak Attack loose 1-2.
I win the first game after being attacked by Emrakul (used maze and then saced most of my permanents), recovered and destroyed his manabase. Game 2 I Krosan Grip 1 Blood Moon but later get 2 more moons and die before finding enough Krosan Grips. G3 mull to 5, get Blood Moon and die soon after.

trial 2
Miracles win 2-1
A very long game in which I tried everything, but my opp gathered SDT, Counterbalance and Force of Will + 2cc on his top. Even the worms could not pass. Games 2-3 sideboard worked perfectly and I won just in time before Sudden death.
1-0

Reanimator win 2-0
He had a slow hand in G1 and his manabase was destroyed before he tried to entomb anything. While sideboarding I almost did a terrible mistake, thinking he's on some delver deck, because in G1 I saw only U-sea, fetches, FoW, Daze, Brainstorm, Ponder, Thoughtseize and Swamp. If not that swamp I could have sided my crops and Karakas out, but realized that in time. G2 I keep a solid hand with Maze and Karakas and win without problems.
2-0

Esper blade win 1-0
Nothing special, I played my game, my opponent thought he played his. I don't risk and win the first game in extra turns.
3-0

Miracles with Mishra's factory win 2-0
In first game I manage to keep my opponent below 2 mana. In second game Sideboard worked properly.
4-0

Team America 2-1
First game goes without trouble. In second game I decide not to play around daze, as these are usually sided out. So my Punishing Fire targeting Deathrite gets dazed and eaten, after that I get Null Rod, wasteland and 2 flipping delvers. And I don't have time to recover. In game 3 I safely destroy all his manasources and win.
5-0, some BoM points as prizes which I use for Mishra's Toy Workshop that my friend dreamed of. Then Rich Hagon wants to interview me. It was shown on stream somewhere between the top8 games. Personally I don't like it, I was a bit confused by the situation and couldn't tell about all the things I like in the deck. It can be found here if you scroll to 3:52:20 http://www.twitch.tv/magic/v/6953315

Main Event. Played with the same 76.
Rounds 1 and 2: byes.

Round 3: Burn, loose 0-2.
"Win the byes only to face Burn" I thought and was really frustrated. Some time ago I decided to cut Zuran Orb, because there are so many Miracles around and who would play Burn these days... Should I say, that I loose without a chance?
2-1

Round 4: Death and Taxes, win 2-0.
No complications, just burned all his creatures.
3-1

Round 5: Infect, loose 0-2.
I have a slow start and keep alive only due to Maze of Ith. But he plays Vines of Vastwood during Main phase before I can find Chasm. Game 2 a very difficult decision: I have loam, Grove and exploration and play gamble for Punishing Fire. For 3 or 4 turns he is saving the elf by pumping it or Forcing the Fire. In the end I die to it. Should have searched for Chasm or Maze.
3-2

Round 6: Jund depths, win 2-0.
Classical "wins the one who has loam". I have exploration and start Loaming but he Crops for Bojuka and then finds Loam. I topdeck Sylvan Library and find 2 wastelands with which I cut his green sources. Than I find crop for Bojuka and the second Loam. G2 I find a good moment for cropping for Dark Depths in my turn when he taps for Abrupt Decaying my Mox without enough mana for his stage. A risky move, but he does not have an answer on his turn and I win.
4-2

Round 7: UWR Blade, win 2-1.
We have a 30 min game one where I can't resolve a single Exploration or Manabond and in the end die to TNN. G2 and 3 sideboard cards do not leave a chance for him. I win in extra turns.
5-2

Round 8: BUGw Shardless, loose 1-2.
First game was nothing special. In game two I mulligan twice into some shit, get my gamble FoWed, my loam Deathrited and my Punishing fires Maddling maged. Game 3 I decide to keep a hand with Maze, Grove, double waste, Port, fetch and gamble. He plays a t1 Shaman, I gamble for P-fire. Fire shaman, get FoW, then get Meddling Mage on Fire and eventually loose.
5-3

Round 9 my opponent does not show up. 6-3, which is 3-3 in games, not the result I wanted.

Overall I liked the list and I don't think I would change anything if I had a chance. My mistakes were my enemies. However the fact that they were much more complicated and difficult to realize than what was on camera at the top tables of day 2 is a bit disappointing me.

p.s. Was very happy to meet Rivfader!

Thanks, I'll try put together something but the heat made it very hard to remember things.

To be honest neither Karakas or Bog did much work over the weekend. Karakas was sided out almost every game and the Bog came in 2 or 3 times but never showed up.

The idea was there was a lot more omnitell about than graveyard decks. Karakas isn't the best but if they do just jam an Emrakul off a show and tell then it's great. I think maybe a Ghost Quarter may have been better in hindsight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skuttlespike

Thanks, I'll try put together something but the heat made it very hard to remember things.

To be honest neither Karakas or Bog did much work over the weekend. Karakas was sided out almost every game and the Bog came in 2 or 3 times but never showed up.

The idea was there was a lot more omnitell about than graveyard decks. Karakas isn't the best but if they do just jam an Emrakul off a show and tell then it's great. I think maybe a Ghost Quarter may have been better in hindsight.

---

I run Qhost in what I think of as a floating slot useable by anything really. I like the card, I think it's strong and it fights for space with Karakas and Bog. All three can fit in the space and it is best suited to the Meta as to what you choose.

Also been to Lille, and got to meet door as he was friends with my round 2 adversary, nice to meet you too!
It would have been sweet to bump into Chatto as well, but in a 1500 people crowd, chances aren't that big...
The list I played was quite conventional, except I played Boseiju main, and an Iona in the side.

I played the friday trials, and these went great, as I got to kick some delver / stoneblade ass and dodged Miracles and Omnitell all day long.
My first trial took me to round 4 to be paired against the mirror. Nice Spanish adversary, but alas, in the end I lost 1-2.
Another trial took me to round3, where I played against 4cLoam of Christophe Alsheimer (who eventually top8ed).
I loose 1-2, and I feel like this is a bad matchup for lands (DRS, Knight, Swords, Chalice, Scooze, Lotv).

In contrast with the Trials, the GP itself went rather bad, as I was 0-3 after 3 rounds, ending all prospects of day 2.
Still I play the remaining rounds, and ended the day with 5-4.

For the interested, a little report.

Round1: RW Painter (1-2 loss)
Game 1 I have exploration, T2 token, and T3 kill. Already saw Goblin Welder and Spellskite, so I knew what I was up against. Round 1 Painter wtf ... , but at least won the first game.
Game 2 I loose to T1 Bloodmoon.
Game 3 is really going back and forth. He plays Bloodmoon, I Abrupt Decay it. I make Marit, he Oblivion Rings it. He recruits and plays Magus of the Moon which meets Punishing Fire. I make my second Marit, he lands Ensnaring Bridge.
I have the Krosan Grip for it, but lack one mana to cast it (due to making Marit twice). Three turns later he has his combo while I haven't found my mana.

Round2: Miracles (0-1 loss)
Game1 he plays T2 counterbalance and T3 top, I respond with cropping into Boseiju (maindecked it for the GP).
An early entreat pops two angels, but loam provides me with double maze to deal with it.
I get Marit, he gets Jace. Marit kills both chumpblocking angels over some rounds, while Jace keeps bouncing Marit.
In the end I Boseiju'd myself to 1 life when Jace ultimates me and I scoop.
Game2 I don't really remember, but we go to time with countertop on the table while Monastery Mentor left behind an unfavored boardstate.

Round3: 4cLoam? (1-2 loss)
Game1 starts with T1 chalice 1 with me on the draw (I hold exploration, gamble and crop)
However I draw into loam though and recover through a DRS, eventually Pfiring DRS and manadenialing my opponent.
Game2 starts ugly again with Lotv. I can't find Grip and get run over.
Game3 is blurry, but I think Scooze took the game.

Round 4: Miracles (2-0 win)
Game 1: This player feels less experienced than the previous, and I can manadenial him out with wastes and ports, idem during game 2 where Choke ends the game.

Round 5: D&T (2-1 win)
Game 1: He develops his board to quickly with Thalia slowing me down.
Game 2: My turn for manadenial and boarddeveloping through loam and exploration, and needing many Marits to win through multiple swords and vialed Flickerwisps.
Game 3: Here Tabernacle was crucial in holding back my opponent, until I gained control.

Round 6: Omnitell (1-2 loss)
This is a bit blurry, but I remember a sphere slowing him down and Krosan Gripping his Omniscience one game.

Round 7: RUG Delver (2-0 win)
Game1: finally a delver opponent! I take some quick beats and bolts, but eventually 2 mazes lock up the game before Marit pops up.
Game2: An accelerated loamengine with wasteland and Tabernacle leaves my opponent with no permanents.

Round 8: Shardless (2-0 win)
Game1: he has no answers to a relative fast token.
Game2: I don't see any hate and I make a token dodging Liliana and Wasteland for the kill.

Round 9: Omnitell (2-1 win)
Game1: On the play I have a superhand, involving manabond, both combopieces, loam and some lands. I combo out T2 and kill T3.
Game 2: I play a sphere that's countered, but I have another in my hand. My opponent plays a City of Traitors as his third land and plays S&T T3, so he has the mana to pay for Emrakul as well.
Game 3: I start with Iona in hand, which sees play through my opponents T2 S&T into Omniscience. He's on a two turn clock now to draw Emrakul, and he scoops.

So, after a long day, some honour restored in a 5-4 endresult, but ofcourse I am a bit disappointed.
In any case, congrats to Alex Mortimer for a sixth place!
And also congrats to Belgian Landsplayer Branco Neirynck, who took 38th place!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lavafrogg

What I learned tonight: Since we also bring in Boseju, all of our spells are uncounterable with a trinisphere in play so counterbalance can suck a big one. This lets you life from the loam every couple of turns to keep the action up.

---

Worth noting Boseiju only works for instants and sorceries - it wont help Manabond or Exploration resolve.

Ive been thinking about a black splash for Chains Of Mephistopheles and Nethervoid in the board. With all the cantripsthese days Chains should be an all star. Nethervoid is a similar function to 3sphere, but even more stringent. It doesn't allow us to add colourless to a spells cost for Boseiju. But on the other hand, Boseiju lets us push a loan through without having to pay any extra!

I like a R/G build for these cards better than RUG because they are singletons which can't be recured. In R/G at least we can gamble for them.

If your going to go down that path, I think you need to split your mana to 2 Taiga and a Bayou. I like an Urborg in the flex land slot but I am not sure I like Void due to its high mana cost.

Chains, I love chains. Not sure it's better than 3shpere though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crimhead

Worth noting Boseiju only works for instants and sorceries - it wont help Manabond or Exploration resolve.

---

True, but I would still try and bluff it through at least once in each matchup, see if they're awake at the wheel. CB is still a may trigger, after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crimhead

Worth noting Boseiju only works for instants and sorceries - it wont help Manabond or Exploration resolve.

Ive been thinking about a black splash for Chains Of Mephistopheles and Nethervoid in the board. With all the cantripsthese days Chains should be an all star. Nethervoid is a similar function to 3sphere, but even more stringent. It doesn't allow us to add colourless to a spells cost for Boseiju. But on the other hand, Boseiju lets us push a loan through without having to pay any extra!

I like a R/G build for these cards better than RUG because they are singletons which can't be recured. In R/G at least we can gamble for them.

---

Void would be awesome! Not sure if it would work with the high cmc.

@ rivfader: were you the guy with a tattoo on your shoulder? I saw a Lands-player, thought about swinging by after my MU, but the Lands-player was gone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chatto

@ rivfader: were you the guy with a tattoo on your shoulder? I saw a Lands-player, thought about swinging by after my MU, but the Lands-player was gone.

---

No, I'm tattoo-free, that wasn't me :) Next GP, we should arrange a players meet.
As you're from Nederland, you sometimes play in Belgium?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Antonius

True, but I would still try and bluff it through at least once in each matchup, see if they're awake at the wheel. CB is still a may trigger, after all.

---

Good point - you can announce you're saying qwith Boseiju and they might just skip the trigger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Antonius

True, but I would still try and bluff it through at least once in each matchup, see if they're awake at the wheel. CB is still a may trigger, after all.

---

Worth noting Boseiju is only colorless mana--you can't even use it to cast exploration or manabond.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rivfader

No, I'm tattoo-free, that wasn't me :) Next GP, we should arrange a players meet.
As you're from Nederland, you sometimes play in Belgium?

---

Hahaha, ok! Well, I don't play that often (being a family-man and all), but my mates and I are always up for a little roadtrip! Perhaps, if I can get the band together :smile:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valtrix

Worth noting Boseiju is only colorless mana--you can't even use it to cast exploration or manabond.

---

We were discussing the combination of Boseiju plus a Sphere of Resistance or a Trinisphere. extra costs can be played with colourless, so you can use Boseiju to cast Crop Rotation or Gamble. It doesn't work on enchantments, but a less alert opponent might not bother to counter the spell (including the optional CB trigger).

What are people's experience with a W splash for SB cards?

I have been thinkering with the idea of playing some Thalia's and Canonist's in the SB, maybe even Teeg and Pridemage, like I did when I played the more controlish version of lands. I was considering playing a Savannah in the Main and maybe even one in the board as well, but I am not sure what the right configuration would have to be - or if it is even worth it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rook1e

What are people's experience with a W splash for SB cards?

I have been thinkering with the idea of playing some Thalia's and Canonist's in the SB, maybe even Teeg and Pridemage, like I did when I played the more controlish version of lands. I was considering playing a Savannah in the Main and maybe even one in the board as well, but I am not sure what the right configuration would have to be - or if it is even worth it?

---

Certainly a viable plan. Personally I expect better mileage from disrupting artifacts like Chalice of the Void, Sphere of Resistance and Trinisphere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rook1e

What are people's experience with a W splash for SB cards?

I have been thinkering with the idea of playing some Thalia's and Canonist's in the SB, maybe even Teeg and Pridemage, like I did when I played the more controlish version of lands. I was considering playing a Savannah in the Main and maybe even one in the board as well, but I am not sure what the right configuration would have to be - or if it is even worth it?

---

I found it less effective than it seems. Storm players can side in Dread of night if they know you are on Thalia. Also sometimes you don't have white mana during turns 1-2, which sucks when you open with a good hand with hate. Beating provided by Thalia is not effective, because in 99% you will finish the game with a 20/20 token. And you can have only one Thalia on table, while spheres are cumulative.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rook1e

What are people's experience with a W splash for SB cards?

I have been thinkering with the idea of playing some Thalia's and Canonist's in the SB, maybe even Teeg and Pridemage, like I did when I played the more controlish version of lands. I was considering playing a Savannah in the Main and maybe even one in the board as well, but I am not sure what the right configuration would have to be - or if it is even worth it?

---

Canonist would be better in the control build becuase it can be recured with Academy Ruins. Those builds also used to side in Bobs, which gave more relevance to the extra 2/1 body you get with Thalia.

Come to think of it, bears are better in the RUGx builds anyway. R/G is better at making the 20/20, so a beater back up plan has less value. Without the (significant) potential to win with bears, Thalia is just a harder to cast Sphere which doesn't hose creature spells and is easier to remove. Even RUG lists have cut down on creatures in the board considerably since the new legend rule. Also R/G is more streamlined and thrives on having a faster clock, so diluting the main deck with a Savannah should hurt it more than the slow builds (and I certainly wouldn't devote precious SB space to colour fixing)!

It's worth testing I guess, and I should note I may be biast as hate bears really aren't my style.

On the subject of hate bears:

While I agree that the white splash isn't worth it for Thalia or Canonist because Sphere effects without color requirements are better, I have been testing a Bayou main for four Dark Confidants in the side. If you run them with Chalice of the Void, you can board them in against both removal heavy decks with Swords and Lightning Bolt and against combo decks. The extra card seems way worth it in these matches. Board could look something like this:

4 Krosan Grip (maybe 3/1 split with Abrupt Decay, since you're splashing black, but you don't wanna overload on black cards for fear of missing mana requirements)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Confidant
2 Trinisphere (in this Omnitell meta, though I'd switch them to Spheres in a Storm meta)
1 Dark Depths

Whenever your board in Chalice, the only viable option is to board out all one-mana spells besides Exploration, but that's okay if you have Dark Confidant because it can replace Gamble as your consistency card. I wouldn't board this way against Delver decks, and probably not Midrange since Chalice won't have as much of an effect against decks with loads of answers, but I definitely would board into Confidants and Chalices against combo and Miracles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gigapatrick

I have been testing a Bayou main for four Dark Confidants in the side. If you run them with Chalice of the Void, you can board them in against both removal heavy decks with Swords and Lightning Bolt and against combo decks. The extra card seems way worth it in these matches. Board could look something like this:

4 Krosan Grip (maybe 3/1 split with Abrupt Decay, since you're splashing black, but you don't wanna overload on black cards for fear of missing mana requirements)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Confidant
2 Trinisphere (in this Omnitell meta, though I'd switch them to Spheres in a Storm meta)
1 Dark Depths

---

I don't think I could stand a black splash without including Chains Of Mephistopheles and/or Nethervoid. Losing Ghost Quarter and Karakas would be hard to swallow too. Keeping the board down to 15 is the hardest thing for me when I take Lands into battle.

Edot - unrelated, what are people's thoughts on the 4cc Loam MU? I think we'll be seeing a lot of this deck looking forward!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crimhead

Edot - unrelated, what are people's thoughts on the 4cc Loam MU? I think we'll be seeing a lot of this deck looking forward!

---

I played the Devastating Dreams build of that deck. I think it's not too bad. If you can resolve an Exploration I think you are heavily favoured. I think you are also heavily favoured with a Mox Diamond in play.

The issue with the 4c loam decks is their creatures either die to Punishing Fire or are answered by Maze of Ith. Our loams are better since we have access to Exploration. Again, dealing with Chalice on turn 1 can be a problem.

To all: can we please stop posting in that other thread? It's such a pathetic discussion. Some of those 'I'm better because we're REAL Lands-players' will stick to their guns, just let them. Our Ancestor is the same, we just run along different paths.

To me we're Brothers-in-Arms. It saddens me, and to a certain degree irritates me, that some of our Brothers find themselves to be better. I had a great respect for the most of them, but that respect rapidly fades away.

It's a shame really, but what can you do? Don't try to make a blind man see, or a deaf man hear: you will fail. Let's just let it be, and hope that our Brothers-in-Arms will just relax a bit.

(Not posting there, because of high emotions on their part)

Fair, I should walk away. Thanks for the level headed post.

In other news, Origins became legal here today, grabbed my Vortex's. Should be fun. I have also been having issues with Reanimator locally too. The opponent always seems to have a strong enough hand to just squash me like a fly. He gets some nasty thing that bounces my shit when he casts a spell and locks me. The amount of times I have put the Witch down and just seen her flicked away... I can't beet that fucking deck.

Hey there
Just thought I would post my Lille list. Went 5-3 Day one and then in the Big Sunday Win duals event I went 6-1 for a Trop and Taiga.

Day one losses to
BUG Delver (round 1, I was overhot and overtired, others will be able to attest to that rooms joke temperature, I beat this guy the day before and was really pissed at my mistakes)
Merfolk (also played this guy in a trial the day before and lost as well. he knew what he was doing)
D and T (this guy had absolutely no idea. Luck played a large part in this loss)
TBH I was very disappointed in my performance and felt i really should have Day2. I felt my list was very good for the event.

BOM win a dual loss
Dredge. I played absolutely shockingly poorly. Didn't mulligan to a crop hand G2 and kept a solid hand that was fine against an unknown deck. But in game 2 I know he is on dredge. Just spectacularly bad from me.

List

4 Crop
4 Gamble
4 Pfire
4 Loam
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
2 Manabond

4 Stage
4 Waste
4 Port
4 Grove
2 Taiga
1 Forest
3 Fetch (different names guys, play around Needle please)
3 Maze
3 Depths
1 Chasm
2 Thicket
1 Tabernacle
1 Karakas
1 Bog
1 Ghost Quarter

Side
4 Grip
4 Sphere of resistance
3 Trinisphere
3 Choke
1 Boseiju

Yep. That is 61 cards. For this tournament I felt I needed to hedge against the random dredge and reanimator opponents with both bog and Karakas main. It also frees up alot of very needed space in the side if we are to fully combat Miracles and Omnitell. the Bog is also randomly good against all those Gurmag DTT decks we predicted. The 8 tutors main should, in my view, mean it is not too much of a problem having 61 cards.

Sideboardwise I think this is pretty great. Bringing 14 cards in vs omni certainly helps. Trinisphere off Show and Tell followed up with a Grip or Choke does some spectacular work. With DTT still around after the ban announcement I would recommend this side to all.

Anyway hope this is interesting to someone, happy to answer any questions on the two days and my list and thoughts about matchups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chatto

To all: can we please stop posting in that other thread?

---

I play both versions, so I can't really do that! The decks have a lot in common, and sometimes the most effective way to describe or discuss something is to compare and contrast it to something else similar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I will concede this deck is then harder of the two common lands decks to learn, I think Combo is harder to pilot though since its reduced late game options makes for catching up in the late game hard if you slip behind. You get punished harder if you fuck up with Combo Lands and most of your choices of compounded into the opening two turns. If you read the game state wrong, you will pay for it harder then RUG would because you don't have something like EE to save you.

This deck is better than the others? I would argue that they both offer a strength the other doesn't possess. Combo Lands is faster, it's tutors are cheaper, it can get Loam online faster and it is able to pull faster wins. It falls far short of RUGs catch up potential, it's somewhat inconsistent since it has to bet on Loaming what it needs and it has to build in redundancy because of that. It can play a totally Graveyard free game though. The flip side is that RUG can run one of silver bullets that just win games. It gets Zuran Orb, EE, artifact recursion and a much more dependable tutor in Intuition. It also gains a stronger inevitably factor as the game goes on. A basic and a Gofy are more of a headache for Combo then it is for RUG. Granted, Maze is in both decks so... Yea.

---

Thanks - you've answered the question I've been trying to figure out how best to ask! I mostly play RUGx, and every time I try RG it feels like the deck is biting me in the ass. Obviously it's me, not the deck.

But you hit the nail on the head. Often my hand and board (and hence the game state) looks similar or identical with either deck, but with RG my deck doesn't "come to my rescue" like I'm expecting it to. This has caused me to mis-evaluate the situation I think, and I've paid the cost!

I still need to get the hang of RG, but at least you've helped me pinpoint precisely where I need to improve. I'd love to read a tutorial on RG specifically aimed at RUGx players, but this will be a big help when I reread, rewatch, and relisten various helpful resources.

I hope it's okay that I'm posting here about this. I'm not trying to compare the decks for any reason other than to help me become adept at both. I ported the quote from the other thread because it's currently a shit-show over there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sibelius

3 Fetch (different names guys, play around Needle please)

---

Is this necessary? We have three fetchable lands, so reusing fetches isn't such a big deal. Regardless, aren't we more likely to dredge the same one back than to draw another?

Besides, I'd almost rather bait the Needle! If it's on a fetch it's not on Stage. Similarly having multiples might bait an extraction against a weaker opponent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sibelius

3 Fetch (different names guys, play around Needle please)

---

If someone needles my Wooded Foothills I will chalk that up as a HUGE win for me. It means they wasted a card that should have been naming a card that did something.

Its normally not the right play or even a good play but its not worth puting yourself in a situation where needle or surgical could end up hurting you when it is so easy to avoid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz

Its normally not the right play or even a good play but its not worth puting yourself in a situation where needle or surgical could end up hurting you when it is so easy to avoid.

---

Currently I run three or four with different names. But I wonder if we'd gain more by baiting these plays when they are wrong vs evading them when they are right?

@ Crimhead: I was referring to the 'bitchfight'. For what it's worth, I also see a lot of common cards (but not neccesarily the same strategy), and, of course, if you are playing or have questions for a particular branche: by any means, post in the appropiate thread! But this thrashtalking is just not doing anyone good. My apologies if I wasn't clear enough. Everyone's who wants to discuss about Lands (whichever one you choose) is welcome!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz

Its normally not the right play or even a good play but its not worth puting yourself in a situation where needle or surgical could end up hurting you when it is so easy to avoid.

---

Again, if someone wants to use an entire card on my fetchlands - which aren't critical to my gameplan - I am okay with that.

Surgical my fetches? Great. That means they didn't use that card on my Punishing Fires, Loams, Stages or Dark Depths. Please, use your card on my noncritical pieces.

It's not that they won't "get me" but rather that it didn't do anything meaningful to the course of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz

Its normally not the right play or even a good play but its not worth puting yourself in a situation where needle or surgical could end up hurting you when it is so easy to avoid.

---

True, and one of the reasons I play three different fetchlands. But I never had them extracted: they always went for Stage or Depths. I honestly don't think fetchlands are the prime targets :smile:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crimhead

Thanks - you've answered the question I've been trying to figure out how best to ask!

---

Glad to help. Sadly I feel it is unlikely that too many people will be posting a cross over primer. I know the ins and outs of RUG because I face it frequently and had a short stint testing it before I settled on Combo. There is a guy locally who plays RUG, a guy that use to play Jund Depths and then myself. So everyone here knows how to play against Lands, regardless of the stripe in question.

My own personal experience with the Control build was mirrored in frustration. I like it, I have all the parts I need to build it, but I dislike the slowness of Intuition over Gamble as an engine. I do love the Artifact recurring the deck can do, as proven by my drive over and over to try and make it work here. (A lost cause I have now given up on.)

I do not want to talk for others here, not sure what pulls anyone to a given deck, but speed and graveyard independence are this decks selling points to me. That and watching one Ghost Quarter strip 3k off the other side of the table never gets old.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chatto

True, and one of the reasons I play three different fetchlands. But I never had them extracted: they always went for Stage or Depths. I honestly don't think fetchlands are the prime targets :smile:

---

Agreed, I run a split anyway because it doesn't offer any downside to do so and it might offer some small upside in a game here or there. It might never come up, but it ain't hurting to plan for the moment it might have.

10th place at SCG Chicago tonight had singletons of Engineered Explosives, Academy Ruins, and Riftstone Portal in the main.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scott

10th place at SCG Chicago tonight had singletons of Engineered Explosives, Academy Ruins, and Riftstone Portal in the main.

---

Second time he finishes with an unconventional build. For me it's especially the sideboard that puzzles me, with 3x Grafdiggers Cage and 4x Deathrite Shaman.

Hey All, I've recently completed trading out of modern into RG Combo Lands, utterly adore the deck. Thanks to everyone for the primer, it really is a great help when getting started.

To date I've only played in 2, 30 player store events, and a bunch online, I'm hovering around the 50% win rate, which I'm thrilled with, I'm sure it'll improve with time.

I'm having real issue seeing the value in Manabond, whenever I draw it, I either have a grip full of spells I want to cast, or a hand with no combo pieces, and no way to get Loam going. It feels far to high variance for a deck that wants to go late game, and destroy all the happiness in our opponents lives(for 45 minutes).

To this end, I've recently swap out the Manabonds for a pair of Worm Harvest, and have been loving it. Am curious to hear experienced players opinion on this change.

Hey Horrain, welcome to the thread.

Keep the manabonds maindecked, basically you want loam for the digging/carddraw, but you need exploration/manabond to translate it into boardadvantage (and manabond has the most powerful synergy with loam this deck has to offer). You don't have to let manabond trigger, so you can skip the ability a turn to play whatever nonrecurring spell you have left in hand. Especially game1, since those spells are all 1cc (crop rotation and gamble). Things are different game2, since you'll board in stuff you might want to sandbag in your hand, so depending on the matchup you board the manabonds out.

Just keep playing with them for a little longer, you'll get accustomed to play around it's drawback.

Sounds like at the moment you have yet to get Mulliganing down. The amount of times I have had a Manabond on the table without a Loam active is rather low. See Manabond is like your Exploration 5 and 6. It's a necessary part of the deck because it let's you break stride and start abusing your gains. Having one if those two Enchantments on the table really does make a hell of a difference.

The reason you want 6 of them though is because they are secondary to the game plan. You really want Loam or Gamble first. A hand without one of those two cards needs to be strong in other effects to be worth keeping. (Say Grove and Fire against Elves) Having 6 of the Enchantments let's you try and draw into one since they really change the way the deck handles. Since you can't fish them out of the grave it's best to have a greater chance of drawing one in the opening set up turns.

The Wurms though are a fine panic button if Miracles is common in your Meta. Making threats they just can't stop over and over again is fun. They are good to have around but not worth you Bonds. Try the flex slot and sideboard if you like them.

I almost always sideboard out Manabond. In fact I'm down to only one in the starting 60 and I don't regret it.

Welcome to the world of RG Lands. :)