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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Blazing Archon --> All is Dust / Duplicant is also a nice answer (and a nightmare with Displacer)
Price of progress - all these lists auto lose to burn. Auto lose. - Can't win against everybody. Besides, Burn is such a tiny part of the metagame that I don't care about it. Chalice&Torn will help a lot, since they only play a small amount off Artifact Hate (and no Cantrips), add Chalice @2 which means also "GG vs Price of Progress and the common solution Smash to Smithereens". Some Mox/Talisman can also help to not overload the field with lands.
That's why I dislike the pure colorless build/aggro build because it's so much of a one-trick pony.
Edit: @Bruizar: Chalice works, Wail can't counter instants.
The list is clearly tailor-made for the GW build and it still proves that the development goes in the right direction! It shows also some cards against the common colorless Eldrazi Builds that running rampant now. It should be interesting to see if the Meta will use more of the named Hate-Stuff, if Eldrazi become a real legacy contender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fox
Batterskull decks (piloted as combo)
Before going after x=1 chalice, I'd be quicker to criticize GW eldrazi for its use of mana signets, maindeck displacers, and overloading reanimator hate [RiP in sideboard, multiple Karakas in main].
First, i read all your posts about DnT/Batterskull, i clearly see it not as an issue (besides T1 Vial followed with Manadenial for several Turns). Second I can't understand, that you dislike the GW Idea, because it easily take care of Batterskull and other Equipment and is full with tools that will help vs DnT stuff. (Karakas, Manlands, Talisman/Mox, All is Dust!, World Breaker, Jitte, Displacer). I also won a game vs Smasher equipt with Batterskull (which is more scary than most DnT Creatures), cast World Breaker vs Skull and block/kill Smasher all day long...
And why you don't understand that Displacer is so good and that Rest in Peace is not only here for Reanimator Hate (hint: Gofy, Lands etc.) There is no reason to discuss the idea behind the cards if you understand what matchups can be problematic for Eldrazi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
E.g. played against MUD today with an opponent about to jam down two Wurmcoil Engines. Displacer not only stopped the first Engine, but I also brought in Containment Priest, which swiftly ended the game with the exile combo.
I am glad that you also use this tech. I imagine a similar situation against MUD, they will have a hard time against this Combo (and All is Dust/Ugin is also pretty bad tech vs Eldrazi). Priest also take care of most forgemaster shenanigans.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I think the problematic permanents are widely immune to Wasteland Strangler: What does it help against Emrakul, Griselbrand, Ensnaring Bridge, Humility, Moat, Worship, ... (see some posts above).
We should more go into a direction like the white and GW versions which try to be a generally good deck with undercosted stuff and lots of solutions to "everything".
The Strangler is not that - he needs to first be turned on to do anything and then he is ok against creature, but he is in an undesirable color.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
Minor nitpick, I'd go ESG to be able to cast World Breaker
SSG is castable under moon which is way more relevant if you play colorless.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gkraigher
The deck had only one line of attack, it has no reach, no tricks, just creatures attacking. That is an extremely weak strategy when it isn't protected by counter magic.
I think CotV technically is counter-magic. Most of the creatures also dodge Bolt, CB, and Decay (and unlike MUD beaters the also dodge Disenchant).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gkraigher
Creatures attacking is one of the single weakest strategies in Legacy. And these decks are all in on that one strategy because that's all you have.
Creatures are not all this deck has. It has lock pieces too!
Incidentally, have you consdered that creature decks are currently weak because Miracles and Storm are currently prominent? Eldrazis Shops should have solid MUs against both these decks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gkraigher
You are playing modern, while your opponent is playing legacy. Good luck doing that.
- Eldrazi.dec may be Modern legal right now, but I can't see it staying that way for very long. Most likely this deck is actually too strong for Modern.
- Modern Eldrazi doesn't have Tomb or City of Traitors. running 14-16 sol lands is a big part of what makes Eldrazi Shops more appealing than traditional MUD. Some people think that MUD only needs a little boost in consistency to be tier one. Extra sol lands plus a smoother curve should provide consistency. Other people believe MUD is already sufficiently competitive but needs a wider player base to really make a splash. Disgruntled banned-out Modern players should provide that in spades!
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gheizen64
SSG is castable under moon which is way more relevant if you play colorless.
I think that's a good reason to run SSG, but then again that depends on your game plan. If you use Jitte's SSG might be better, but if you're running World Breakers I think ESG is better due to the cast trigger giving you a hard-out against Blood Moon. Blood Moon is played in Imperial Painter, red Mud variants, Dragon Stompy and Miracles. Out of these match-ups I think the SSG plan is viable against Miracles, but loses against the other decks because 2/2 equipped creature isn't going to help you (Jitte might help against Imperial Painter, but they may as well just blast it or combo you out before you get enough counters to do something about it). That said, World Breaker costing 6 lands and an ESG is a lot to ask.
No clear answer before I get in more testing with the various builds, but good point Gheizen.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
I think that's a good reason to run SSG, but then again that depends on your game plan. If you use Jitte's SSG might be better, but if you're running World Breakers I think ESG is better due to the cast trigger giving you a hard-out against Blood Moon. Blood Moon is played in Imperial Painter, red Mud variants, Dragon Stompy and Miracles. Out of these match-ups I think the SSG plan is viable against Miracles, but loses against the other decks because 2/2 equipped creature isn't going to help you (Jitte might help against Imperial Painter, but they may as well just blast it or combo you out before you get enough counters to do something about it). That said, World Breaker costing 6 lands and an ESG is a lot to ask.
No clear answer before I get in more testing with the various builds, but good point Gheizen.
I said "if you play colorless" which implied no World Breakers. If you play World breaker ESG is probably better, but if you run World breaker you also probably don't want to run a spirit guide in the first place :p
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gheizen64
I said "if you play colorless" which implied no World Breakers. If you play World breaker ESG is probably better, but if you run World breaker you also probably don't want to run a spirit guide in the first place :p
Eldrazi Shops is colorless but plays Mox Diamond and 2 sideboard World Breakers though.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
Blazing Archon --> All is Dust / Duplicant is also a nice answer (and a nightmare with Displacer)
Price of progress - all these lists auto lose to burn. Auto lose. - Can't win against everybody. Besides, Burn is such a tiny part of the metagame that I don't care about it. Chalice&Torn will help a lot, since they only play a small amount off Artifact Hate (and no Cantrips), add Chalice @2 which means also "GG vs Price of Progress and the common solution Smash to Smithereens". Some Mox/Talisman can also help to not overload the field with lands.
I answered that list intentionally with maindeck cards to show the deck has outs to most things. After boarding, it gets even better when you have access to Priest, Thorn, etc.
If Duplicant could be tutored with Conduit, it would be nice. But as it stands, Priest does almost the same with Displacer for a way cheaper price.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
On the xSG vs Mox diamond debate:
In general, i think in a deck with so many sol lands, xSG are better than diamonds.
If you have 2 land starter
- Mox and xSG give you the same mana T1, but only the hand with xSG can have 4 mana T2 as you could have 2 sol lands in hand.
On the other hand, with a 3 land starter,
- mox and xSG give you the same mana T1, but mox can also give you 5 mana T2 instead of 4 mana T2. Again, SSG is better on T3 because you are 5 mana potential vs 6 mana potential.
Basically, if you have an X-lander hand, mox diamond give you better mana in the turns 1<turns<X. SSG give the same mana on T1, and better on turn X. 1-landers with moxens are unkeepable, with xSG they are slightly better but still unkeepable in most situations. 2 and 3-landers which are the most common hands, are described above. 4 landers are debatable, but you probably don't keep what is essentially a 2 business spell hand. SSG could be marginally better as it could work as a slow clock, especially if you have a T1 chalice. 5 landers + accelleration is a mull.
When you have multiple accelleration pieces, moxens are way worse than SSG, but both are really bad.
Mox has also the ability to cycle multiple legendary lands. This is more relevant if you run like 4 ugins and 4 traitors obviously. And Crucible of Worlds too. Mox also can give you colored mana which is relevant for Dismember, and in case you run colored eldrazis.
xSG can be emergencly casted as grey ogres and are castable (SSG) under blood moon. It's also good to kill dazes, and isn't effected by spheres effects. They also get better in lists with equipments. It also make Eye of ugin activations easier as it doesn't make you discard sol lands so you get to 7 mana faster in most cases.
Gemstone Cavern as a 1 or 2-of (plus 1 more in side) is also essentially a mox diamond on the draw, but with way less drawbacks if not drew on T1 , and able to give you C as well.
That said, in a pure colorless list, i'd run 3 SSG and 1-2 caverns (plus 1 in sb) in place of mox diamonds. I'd also run a single jitte and sofai to make Warping Wails and SSG a bit more relevant. No crucible either, so possibly factories in place of wastelands. 2-3 Traitors and 3 Ugins to avoid multiples early on which are awkward.
If you run some colored spells/eldrazis and/or crucibles, moxens become more interesting. I'd max on watelands for wastelocks with crucibles. Play some colored spells to make diamond slightly more relevant. 4 Traitors become more appealing, as well as 4 ugins.
Just my 2 cents.
EDIT: i did a mistake in the turn evaluation, as i assumed you always fire up xSG on T1 (which is probably often because you want chalice T1, but not always). It's not only about the first and X turn, the point is that SSG can give you more maximum mana because it doesn't remove you your lands, as well as giving you a +1 mana boost for 1 turn. Which is less relevant than Moxens the more lands you have, and the higher your curve. To elaborate a bit on this, if you have a three land starters, you still can have 5 mana turn 2 with SSG like with moxen, you'll just have 1 less mana T1 (2 vs 3 or 1 vs 2). Which, i think, make for a bit better of case for xSG. With three lands and a ESG for example, this mean that you could even get 7 (world breaker) mana on T3 whereas you'd be need a fourth land.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Played in a small 5-rounder yesterday. Beat ANT, Eureka-Tell, and Infect. Lost to D+T and Abzan Nic Fit.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Wasteland
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Endbringer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Tangle Wire
1 Umezawa's JItte
3 Warping Wail
Sideboard
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Pithing Needle
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Dismember
Observations:
- Was trying out Tangle Wire for the first time in a competitive setting - wasn't good at all, actually. Always felt really win-more.
- Revokers were bleh as usual, still don't really feel like the deck needs that in the maindeck.
- Endbringer was great and people should play more of him.
- Simian Spirit Guide was also great, and I think 3 is about the right number. You want a little extra help to power out 3ball and Chalice on turn 1, but you don't need to overload on it.
At this point, I've tried nearly every single sphere or artifact lock piece, and they have all been disappointing except Chalice, Trinisphere, and Warping Wail. I am starting to think that maybe I should just be less interactive and play Matter Reshaper, if only because it falls on the right spot on the curve. I know he kind of sucks. But a thing that happened often was that if I had only one Sol land in the opener, I got stuck with turn 1 Chalice/Endless One/Mimic and didn't have a good turn 2 play. I'd be happy to try out -2 Tangle Wire, -2 Revoker, +4 Matter Reshaper going forward. This makes the deck a lot more like a normal linear aggro deck, but maybe that's ok.
I like this idea better than slowing the deck down for colored reactive cards like World Breaker and Eldrazi Displacer. Having reliable T1 spheres is basically this deck's only saving grace against combo, and having to cut Sol lands like people are doing and play Talismans (which are -1 mana net the turn you play them) instead of accelerants like SSG seems like it makes that angle much, much worse.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gheizen64
On the xSG vs Mox diamond debate:
In general, i think in a deck with so many sol lands, xSG are better than diamonds.
If you have 2 land starter
- Mox and xSG give you the same mana T1, but only the hand with xSG can have 4 mana T2 as you could have 2 sol lands in hand.
On the other hand, with a 3 land starter,
- mox and xSG give you the same mana T1, but mox can also give you 5 mana T2 instead of 4 mana T2. Again, SSG is better on T3 because you are 5 mana potential vs 6 mana potential.
Basically, if you have an X-lander hand, mox diamond give you better mana in the turns 1<turns<X. SSG give the same mana on T1, and better on turn X. 1-landers with moxens are unkeepable, with xSG they are slightly better but still unkeepable in most situations. 2 and 3-landers which are the most common hands, are described above. 4 landers are debatable, but you probably don't keep what is essentially a 2 business spell hand. SSG could be marginally better as it could work as a slow clock, especially if you have a T1 chalice. 5 landers + accelleration is a mull.
When you have multiple accelleration pieces, moxens are way worse than SSG, but both are really bad.
Mox has also the ability to cycle multiple legendary lands. This is more relevant if you run like 4 ugins and 4 traitors obviously. And Crucible of Worlds too. Mox also can give you colored mana which is relevant for Dismember, and in case you run colored eldrazis.
xSG can be emergencly casted as grey ogres and are castable (SSG) under blood moon. It's also good to kill dazes, and isn't effected by spheres effects. They also get better in lists with equipments. It also make Eye of ugin activations easier as it doesn't make you discard sol lands so you get to 7 mana faster in most cases.
Gemstone Cavern as a 1 or 2-of (plus 1 more in side) is also essentially a mox diamond on the draw, but with way less drawbacks if not drew on T1 , and able to give you C as well.
That said, in a pure colorless list, i'd run 3 SSG and 1-2 caverns (plus 1 in sb) in place of mox diamonds. I'd also run a single jitte and sofai to make Warping Wails and SSG a bit more relevant. No crucible either, so possibly factories in place of wastelands. 2-3 Traitors and 3 Ugins to avoid multiples early on which are awkward.
If you run some colored spells/eldrazis and/or crucibles, moxens become more interesting. I'd max on watelands for wastelocks with crucibles. Play some colored spells to make diamond slightly more relevant. 4 Traitors become more appealing, as well as 4 ugins.
Just my 2 cents.
I like the Gemstone Cavern as well as the Spirit Guide - How about this:
4x Ancient Tomb
3x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Gemstone Caverns
1x Karakas
4x Wasteland
3x Warping Wail
4x Eldrazi Mimic
3x Endbringer
4x Endless One
2x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Thorn of Amethyst
Sideboard
1x Dismember
4x Faerie Macabre
1x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Warping Wail
This is closer to a Dragon Stompy manabase if you count the Waselands as spells (20 lands, 4 SSG) - maybe we should play Trinisphere. The Thorns have been a bit lackluster to me.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
3-0'd Friday Legacy tonight. Technically it was 2-0-1 splitting the final round, but we played the match out for fun and data and I won 4 of 5 games. He was playing Burn. So much for that deck being an "auto-loss." >_>
I also beat Elves and Esper Deathblade.
We're still keeping the full list under wraps for this weekend, but I can tell you we've settled on a colorless Shops list without Moxen or Spirit Guides.
The real test will be Sunday. We're testing more tomorrow and we'll be playing 7 rounds of Swiss on Sunday. I'll update when the dust has settled.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delvis
3-0'd Friday Legacy tonight. Technically it was 2-0-1 splitting the final round, but we played the match out for fun and data and I won 4 of 5 games. He was playing Burn. So much for that deck being an "auto-loss." >_>
I also beat Elves and Esper Deathblade.
We're still keeping the full list under wraps for this weekend, but I can tell you we've settled on a colorless Shops list without Moxen or Spirit Guides.
The real test will be Sunday. We're testing more tomorrow and we'll be playing 7 rounds of Swiss on Sunday. I'll update when the dust has settled.
Can you disclose your sideboard at all?
I went 3-1 last night we my list and my only lose was to elves. I'm curious how you sideboarded against elves.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I said "Fuck it" and bought back into MTGO with my GW build since I'm fully convinced the deck is the real deal. I'll also track all all pre- & post-board wins as well as total match %.
Went 2-3 on the first run, but got also unlucky since I got 2 bad match-ups. Losses were against Burn, Lands (ugh) and Shardless BUG (made some mistakes here). Wins were against Deathblade and LED Dredge.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CovenantElite30
Can you disclose your sideboard at all?
I went 3-1 last night we my list and my only lose was to elves. I'm curious how you sideboarded against elves.
I cut my Thorns for more removal. It was the only thing that really was available to me based on my sideboard. Keep in mind it was my first time piloting the deck.
One of my testing partners showed up halfway through the round and gave me advice on the matchup after it was over. He basically said, kill all mana dorks on site. Shut off whatever seems most likely with Revoker. Keep them from doing broken stuff and your creatures will eventually outclass theirs.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Went 3-1-1 but drew on the 5th turn due to slow playing opponent. I had tks + reality smasher + jitte, he was on 1 eith no board and 1 card in hand.
2-0 omniscience
2-0 delver
1-2 goblins (wasteland and rishadan ports are problematic)
2-0 burn
1-1 stoneblade
Build was suboptimal due to mail not arriving. World breaker is a beast, never leaving him out of the 75 again.
Considering serum powder as i mulled 5 times alone in the first 2 matches.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CovenantElite30
Can you disclose your sideboard at all?
I went 3-1 last night we my list and my only lose was to elves. I'm curious how you sideboarded against elves.
I sided in 2 gutshots for dnt/elves/infect/lackey/mimics/dark confidant. If you play urborgs, consider perish
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
I sided in 2 gutshots for dnt/elves/infect/lackey/mimics/dark confidant. If you play urborgs, consider perish
I play 3 Warping Wail main which seems to be very good verses those matchups. I play 1 all is Dust in the sideboard and won me a game vs elves. I'm considering going to 2.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CovenantElite30
I play 3 Warping Wail main which seems to be very good verses those matchups. I play 1 all is Dust in the sideboard and won me a game vs elves. I'm considering going to 2.
I play 4 Warping Wail, 2 Dismember main and 2 All is Dust sideboard.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
From the Ashes is a disgusting card against us. Almost won twice vs Miracles post-board before it wrecked my shit each game.
Finally faced some S&T. G2 was really satisfying:
Opponent plays T2 S&T into Griselbrand, I put in Displayer with activation mana up next turn. He draws 14 of Grisel and plays another S&T. Since I expect Sneak Attack shenanigans, I do the right thing:
http://i.imgur.com/WTmmz1k.jpg
No sneaky noodle monsters, just a perma-exiled Griselbee and a dead opponent next turn. It's nice to see my opponent doing all the work for me. :laugh:
Krosen Grip has been solid so far. I'm thinking about adding a third Containment Priest due to its usefulness in various unfair match-ups or just going ham with Displacer in matches where you don't have anything else to board in. Not sure what to cut - maybe I'm going down to 2 Ratchet Bombs again.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
First, i read all your posts about DnT/Batterskull, i clearly see it not as an issue (besides T1 Vial followed with Manadenial for several Turns). Second I can't understand, that you dislike the GW Idea, because it easily take care of Batterskull and other Equipment and is full with tools that will help vs DnT stuff. (Karakas, Manlands, Talisman/Mox, All is Dust!, World Breaker, Jitte, Displacer). I also won a game vs Smasher equipt with Batterskull (which is more scary than most DnT Creatures), cast World Breaker vs Skull and block/kill Smasher all day long...
And why you don't understand that Displacer is so good and that Rest in Peace is not only here for Reanimator Hate (hint: Gofy, Lands etc.) There is no reason to discuss the idea behind the cards if you understand what matchups can be problematic for Eldrazi.
I am glad that you also use this tech. I imagine a similar situation against MUD, they will have a hard time against this Combo (and All is Dust/Ugin is also pretty bad tech vs Eldrazi). Priest also take care of most forgemaster shenanigans.
For the record I don't dislike the GW idea, but there are strengths and weaknesses to be aware of, and always ways to tune the list. The point of that post was that someone was saying something to the effect of "GW tron is bad, stop trying to bring it over from modern" and then they implied things like DRS, Wasteland Strangler, and Relic are stronger than chalice on 1 in GW list. At that point I offered GW cards in the list that deserve a closer look before considering cutting chalice.
I don't think I'll ever be sold on the mana signet/Talisman of Unity slots the GW lists run, and this is probably the main place I'd look to improve the deck. The displacer feels more like a sideboard card, but we'd need someone to take notes on maindeck displacer's effect on a relevant sample size of G1 matches - something I've not seen is focusing on blinking TKS at end of opponent draw step, to limit what opponent can do in a main phase, and that feels like the real strength of this card. The yard hate is probably a little on the overkill side (I get what you're saying about RiP vs goyf/lands, but it feels like layers of redundancy if you're choosing what they can play at sorcery speed).
For all chalice'd Eldrazi lists [colored and colorless], I think I've been pretty consistent with advice to not use artifacts that require activation. I think the upside of 2-4 Null Rods is too high to pass up. Your opening threats (lock pieces) need to occupy the 2-drop slot; expect the first to be countered, and make the deck capable of repeating that play the next turn or slamming the TKS. If this aspect of chalice eldrazi decks is left intact, the rest is personal preference/meta-calls. Legacy Eldrazi doesn't net gain win % by focusing on consistently dropping a smasher turn 2.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
From the Ashes is a disgusting card against us. Almost won twice vs Miracles post-board before it wrecked my shit each game.
Finally faced some S&T. G2 was really satisfying:
Opponent plays T2 S&T into Griselbrand, I put in Displayer with activation mana up next turn. He draws 14 of Grisel and plays another S&T. Since I expect Sneak Attack shenanigans, I do the right thing:
http://i.imgur.com/WTmmz1k.jpg
No sneaky noodle monsters, just a perma-exiled Griselbee and a dead opponent next turn. It's nice to see my opponent doing all the work for me.[emoji23]
Krosen Grip has been solid so far. I'm thinking about adding a third Containment Priest due to its usefulness in various unfair match-ups or just going ham with Displacer in matches where you don't have anything else to board in. Not sure what to cut - maybe I'm going down to 2 Ratchet Bombs again.
What's your sideboard look like?
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
@CovenantElite30:
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All Is Dust
1 Karakas
3 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
1 Krosan Grip
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
From the Ashes is a disgusting card against us. Almost won twice vs Miracles post-board before it wrecked my shit each game.
Finally faced some S&T. G2 was really satisfying:
Opponent plays T2 S&T into Griselbrand, I put in Displayer with activation mana up next turn. He draws 14 of Grisel and plays another S&T. Since I expect Sneak Attack shenanigans, I do the right thing:
No sneaky noodle monsters, just a perma-exiled Griselbee and a dead opponent next turn. It's nice to see my opponent doing all the work for me. :laugh:
Krosen Grip has been solid so far. I'm thinking about adding a third Containment Priest due to its usefulness in various unfair match-ups or just going ham with Displacer in matches where you don't have anything else to board in. Not sure what to cut - maybe I'm going down to 2 Ratchet Bombs again.
From the Ashes?^^ I still like my 1off Wastes at Side :tongue: also glad to play Mox+Talisman to avoid some landdestruction, but yeah we will see more stuff like that, if Eldrazi conquer the meta, ironically it will also affect lands (which are favoured to us).
I also thought about a third priest, the combo is so good (and manawise easy), it wrecks a lot of matchups.
Wasn't it a problem to cast Grip with only 5 sources (under moon)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fox
I don't think I'll ever be sold on the mana signet/
Talisman of Unity slots the GW lists run, and this is probably the main place I'd look to improve the deck. The displacer feels more like a sideboard card, but we'd need someone to take notes on maindeck displacer's effect on a relevant sample size of G1 matches - something I've not seen is focusing on blinking TKS at end of opponent draw step, to limit what opponent can do in a main phase, and that feels like the real strength of this card. The yard hate is probably a little on the overkill side (I get what you're saying about RiP vs goyf/lands, but it feels like layers of redundancy if you're choosing what they can play at sorcery speed).
Displacer is strictly maindeck stuff and the reason to play this build (he is stronger than World Breaker). My first step was 1 Displacer Main, 1 Displacer Side, but i quickly went to the full GW build. I won several game one Game on the back of the guy, i even tutored him with Eye of Ugin in some cases. I also faced one Death & Taxes player with Displacer Main!
Yard Hate Overkill - think about it, this deck can't play cantrips, so have more copies against important matchups is not bad. RiP will also work vs Lands, Storm, Gofy.decks, Aggro Loam (nice Knight) and it has enough impact to use it not only vs Graveyard Combo. Containment Priest is good vs Elves, Sneak & Show and will win you (if paired with Displacer) Matchups like MUD, Mirror and some other stuff with a lot of big dudes.
Talisman/Mox is needed for mana, you want to cast World Breaker, All is Dust and maybe Ulamog - all without Cloudpost (sometimes i miss the lands from my early build) and you want to be able to still do some stuff vs Wasteland/Port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
@CovenantElite30:
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All Is Dust
1 Karakas
3 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
1 Krosan Grip
My is very similar, you can see it at my signature (and some other sideboard cards)
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
From the Ashes?^^ I still like my 1off Wastes at Side :tongue: also glad to play Mox+Talisman to avoid some landdestruction, but yeah we will see more stuff like that, if Eldrazi conquer the meta, ironically it will also affect lands (which are favoured to us).
I also thought about a third priest, the combo is so good (and manawise easy), it wrecks a lot of matchups.
Wasn't it a problem to cast Grip with only 5 sources (under moon)?
Displacer is strictly maindeck stuff and the reason to play this build (he is stronger than World Breaker). My first step was 1 Displacer Main, 1 Displacer Side, but i quickly went to the full GW build. I won several game one Game on the back of the guy, i even tutored him with Eye of Ugin in some cases. I also faced one Death & Taxes player with Displacer Main!
Yard Hate Overkill - think about it, this deck can't play cantrips, so have more copies against important matchups is not bad. RiP will also work vs Lands, Storm, Gofy.decks, Aggro Loam (nice Knight) and it has enough impact to use it not only vs Graveyard Combo. Containment Priest is good vs Elves, Sneak & Show and will win you (if paired with Displacer) Matchups like MUD, Mirror and some other stuff with a lot of big dudes.
Talisman/Mox is needed for mana, you want to cast World Breaker, All is Dust and maybe Ulamog - all without Cloudpost (sometimes i miss the lands from my early build) and you want to be able to still do some stuff vs Wasteland/Port.
When you lose 4+ lands while they lose nothing, a single Waste isn't going to do it either way.
Grip comes in for various match-ups even without Blood Moon, like MUD or against equipment. I don't want to increase the numbers since 9 green are still not that much for multiple copies.
Displacer isn't SB stuff. It took me quite a bit of playtesting before seeing it's true potential and impact in various match-ups.
I don't know how 3 RiP is "Yard Hate Overkill" - that's pretty standard for white decks that don't run cantrips or tutors, e.g. D&T. Containment Priest serves a different function - hating on cheaty GY strategies is just an added bonus.
Edit: Sneak and Show quickly becomes my favorite match-up due to what ridiculous wins one can pull. Pure bliss:
Locked under Blood Moon with no outs? Better cast Metamorph to copy their Emrakul and wreck them!
That's second time Metamorph did me a favor by copying enemy fat (first time was Tidesprout Tyrant vs. Reanimator). Most of the time, it's just another Reality Smahser or TKS. Not the best thing ever, but I'm slowly warming up for it.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I really don't see Blood Moon as a problematic permanent for Eldrazi. Yes, it's a good card, but no it doesn't guarantee a win. Price of Progress is much more dangerous if you ask me.
@Barook: Can you share your thoughts about Conduit of Ruin? I boarded them out every single match and was never happy to see one but I see you're still running them. What are your targets beyond World Breaker and why wouldn't you just run extra World Breakers instead if it is your only target?
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
I really don't see Blood Moon as a problematic permanent for Eldrazi. Yes, it's a good card, but no it doesn't guarantee a win. Price of Progress is much more dangerous if you ask me.
@Barook: Can you share your thoughts about Conduit of Ruin? I boarded them out every single match and was never happy to see one but I see you're still running them. What are your targets beyond World Breaker and why wouldn't you just run extra World Breakers instead if it is your only target?
They're okay. They're castable under Blood Moon (unlike Endbringer, for example). World Breaker is still expensive, so I don't want to run too many copies. The ramp ability of Conduit is relevant sometimes.
If you feel like it, you can test something different, like Endbringer or whatever. Conduit isn't 100% set in stone unlike TKS, Smasher and Displacer.
Speaking of Displacer, he was MVP in the first Maverick match-up I just played. It's a trooper. Maverick doesn't seem like a good match-up, considering Knight fetching up multiple Wastelands wrecks us. Displacer can still hold back the onslaught like it's nothing. G3 my opponent had a board of Knight, Ooze, Mom and Jitte while I was clinging to my lands with Displacer and RiP on the board. I got wasted 4 times and my opponent still hit a brick was since his 1/1 and 2/2s couldn't do shit against my 3/3 and any attempt in attacking with Jitte resulted in flickering. I was close to brink of death before he timed out (he played at a glacial pace), just as I was about to stabilize at 1 life.
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[DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
So, hopefully everyone's watched Mengucci's Legacy video series. He's playing a pretty typical Colourless Aggro (Thorns, SSG, Reshaper in main - which looks awful in his MU vs. Miracles, though he defeats Miracles with the late-game power of Eye which is pretty awesome, no Wastelands, Factories instead) and it seems to work pretty well overall.
http://www.channelfireball.com/video...rless-eldrazi/
Also, after MD.Ghost's suggestion and after seeing Displacer work amazingly for a few people this weekend in a Modern GPT (different format, but the card was still very impressive in their UW Eldrazi lists that both Top 8ed) I think MonoBlue is going to be shelved (although I think it can be reasonably strong) for a UW version with a more diverse sideboard. Here's where I'm at for now:
Creatures: (24)
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
Non-Creature Spells: (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Mox Diamond
2 Warping Wail
Lands: (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Adarkar Wastes
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
Sideboard: (15)
2 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
2 Rest in Peace
2 Drowner of Hope
2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
1 Karakas
I love the sideboard options I've got here, though I do at times miss Revoker (semi-replaced by Disenchant, which I kind of want to be an ORing but instant speed is relevant vs. Moon), Jitte (could cut Dismembers for it, I guess, or even shave Flusterstorm). I also am tempted to cut one Displacer for one Dr. Owner, but I've heard it hyped so much by everyone that I'm cautious to do so. I also am considering putting basics over the Tundras - I was looking towards 2 Island 1 Plains over the three Tundras, since I beat Painter cleanly recently via Mox Diamond > Skyspawner > Smasher.
Also, Skyspawner has been generally excellent and I've never been sad to see it. I think it's the real key to the blue splash, along with Drowner (in my opinion) being greater than Endbringer.
Thoughts on this list?
EDIT:
Also Colourless Aggro 5-0ed a League. Notably has no acceleration, MD Endbringers and 3Balls, SB Leyline of the Void, Mindbreak Traps, Winter Orb (I know it's been mentioned, but yeah that's sweet), Contortion and has chosen Revoker over Reshapers in the main.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/376596#online
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I think WU can be a viable alternative to the GW build (which main appeal is World Breaker). You lose the flexibility of World Breaker, but gain some better creatures in exchange.
I'll keep on testing and refining the GW version, but I see potential in the WU build as well. Rasputin Dreamweaver might become a consideration again, too.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
I think WU can be a viable alternative to the GW build (which main appeal is World Breaker). You lose the flexibility of World Breaker, but gain some better creatures in exchange.
I'll keep on testing and refining the GW version, but I see potential in the WU build as well.
Rasputin Dreamweaver might become a consideration again, too.
Is the point of Rasputin to give you a Dark Ritual every turn? I must be missing something
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
civet five
Is the point of Rasputin to give you a Dark Ritual every turn? I must be missing something
It generates infinite mana with Displacer.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
It generates infinite mana with Displacer.
Oh duh, the flicker is instant, not Eot.
But still, I'm struggling to see where the value is in setting up Displacer-Rasputin to go infinite without something to sink the mana into reliably - Rasputin doesn't benefit from all of our accelerators (and has dissynergy with the accelerator you want to have when you go infinite - Eye of Ugin). Once we do go infinite, wouldn't the best possible thing be Eye of Ugin --> Emrakul or something like a Trike in hand to kill them on the spot?
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
civet five
Oh duh, the flicker is instant, not Eot.
But still, I'm struggling to see where the value is in setting up Displacer-Rasputin to go infinite without something to sink the mana into reliably - Rasputin doesn't benefit from all of our accelerators (and has dissynergy with the accelerator you want to have when you go infinite - Eye of Ugin). Once we do go infinite, wouldn't the best possible thing be Eye of Ugin --> Emrakul or something like a Trike in hand to kill them on the spot?
Aside from getting infinite tap downs for the opposing team, both Eldrazi Skyspawner and Drowner of Hope can generate infinite creatures to overrun your opponent next turn. Might be too cute, though.
Edit:
When I don't have to fight the shitty interface or play like a braindead idiot, I can 5-0 with my GW list, too. Matches were 2x Sneak & Show, Maverick, Grixis Delver and Oops! All Spells.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I won a bye tournament today for a bye at the Swiss Legacy Championship (20 people).
The list was close to all the white lists:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Karakas
4x Plains
4x Wasteland
4x Warping Wail
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Eldrazi Mimic
2x Endbringer
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Prismatic Lens
4x Thorn of Amethyst
Sideboard (15)
2x Containment Priest
2x Disenchant
2x Dismember
2x Ratchet Bomb
3x Rest in Peace
1x Stony Silence
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2x Umezawa's Jitte
Prismatic Lens is due to not having any talismans...
The rounds:
Reanimator (Matej) 2-0 Chalice and Displacer help
Lands (Tobias) 2-0 Both games i have Displacers and I draw a Wasteland for his Glacial Chasm
ANT (Pascal) 2-1 Chalices and a Sphere and MVP hought-Knot Seer
I am paired down and have to play...
4Color Loam (Dominique) 2-0 Hi Thought-Knot him and see a hand of Liliana (which I take), 2 Chalices and 3 Abrupt Decays -> I then play a REality Smasher-> I got to Warping Wail his 1st turn Dryad Arbor and he never drew a land after i Watelanded his Bayou
At 4-0 I draw and get first place as the ones at 10 points also drew.
Quarter against BUG Delver (Raphael) 2-1
Semis against ANT (Pascal again) 2-1
Final against a Big Red -Monored Sneak Attack (Thierry) 2-1
Decklists are here: http://forum.swissmtg.ch/viewtopic.p...9&p=6179#p6179
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Aside from getting infinite tap downs for the opposing team, both
Eldrazi Skyspawner and
Drowner of Hope can generate infinite creatures to overrun your opponent next turn. Might be too cute, though.
Yup, that's a possibility too, but it's also a 3 creature combo for a bad Twin kill that requires you pass the turn. With the same 6 mana you can just cast Drowner of Hope, tap down some blockers, and then blink him to get more tap downs.
I think building a deck specifically around Rasputin Dreamweaver and Eldrazi Displacer has merits as they are both tough to kill creatures and all-but-immune to Abrupt Decay and Bolt, but if you go to all of the work to assemble it you want to pretty much end the game on the spot. Thinking of it from the perspective of 12Post, you would want to stay alive long enough to get the mana + Eye of Ugin to hardcast Emrakul. Otherwise, its just another 3 card combo in Legacy.
I am really bullish on the GW and W builds; Displacer-Priest is probably all the deck needs to clear the way.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hofzge
The rounds:
Reanimator (Matej) 2-0 Chalice and Displacer help
Lands (Tobias) 2-0 Both games i have Displacers and I draw a Wasteland for his Glacial Chasm
ANT (Pascal) 2-1 Chalices and a Sphere and MVP hought-Knot Seer
I am paired down and have to play...
4Color Loam (Dominique) 2-0 Hi Thought-Knot him and see a hand of Liliana (which I take), 2 Chalices and 3 Abrupt Decays -> I then play a REality Smasher-> I got to Warping Wail his 1st turn Dryad Arbor and he never drew a land after i Watelanded his Bayou
At 4-0 I draw and get first place as the ones at 10 points also drew.
Quarter against BUG Delver (Raphael) 2-1
Semis against ANT (Pascal again) 2-1
Final against a Big Red -Monored Sneak Attack (Thierry) 2-1
Decklists are here:
http://forum.swissmtg.ch/viewtopic.p...9&p=6179#p6179
How relevant was Displacer vs BUG Delver and Big Red?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
civet five
I am really bullish on the GW and W builds; Displacer-Priest is probably all the deck needs to clear the way.
Both the Mono C and White-based builds put up results. I'm firmly in the white camp since Displacer deals with so many problematic cards. Containment Priest and Karakas being highly synergistic hate pieces is just the icing on the cake.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
How relevant was Displacer vs BUG Delver and Big Red?
Both the Mono C and White-based builds put up results. I'm firmly in the white camp since Displacer deals with so many problematic cards. Containment Priest and Karakas being highly synergistic hate pieces is just the icing on the cake.
how was it in general with 20 lands + only 3 mana rocks?
i notice no ancient tombs and no city of traitors
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
We could do something like WUG midrange if we use corrupted crossroads. Toying around with barook's list and adding blue to it i got something like this:
Creatures: (19)
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 drowner of hope
2 world breaker
Non-Creature Spells: (1)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 mox diamond
1 talisman of unity
1 talisman of dominance
2 all is dust
3 Warping Wail
1 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of light and shadow
Lands: (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 corrupted crossroads
1 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Adarkar Wastes
1 brushland
1 Karakas
Sideboard: (15)
3 Containment Priest
3 Rest in Peace
2 karakas
3 thorn of amethyst
1 all is dust
1 warping wail
2 dismember
You sacrifice some land utility for better creatures. Think it might be worth the tradeoff?
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zyren
You sacrifice some land utility for better creatures. Think it might be worth the tradeoff?
Test it. That's the only way we can learn. 12 white actual sources post-board to support both Priest and RiP, as I run the same amount.
Between Moxen, Crossroads and Cavern, I don't think colored mana should be an issue. My question is if dropping the Factories for blue Eldrazi is worth it. I like how they dodge sorcery speed removal.
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Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
civet five
Oh duh, the flicker is instant, not Eot.
But still, I'm struggling to see where the value is in setting up Displacer-Rasputin to go infinite without something to sink the mana into reliably - Rasputin doesn't benefit from all of our accelerators (and has dissynergy with the accelerator you want to have when you go infinite - Eye of Ugin). Once we do go infinite, wouldn't the best possible thing be Eye of Ugin --> Emrakul or something like a Trike in hand to kill them on the spot?
All you need is a thought knot seer and draw / exile their decks. Emrakul isn't required.
