Could someone please direct me to the Discord server? The link on the primer page is expired. Thanks!
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Could someone please direct me to the Discord server? The link on the primer page is expired. Thanks!
Here you go!Quote:
Originally Posted by One With Nothing
https://discord.gg/sHGrP5F
Hey sorry, it's been updated to a link that never expires! Thanks for bringing it to my attention!Quote:
Originally Posted by One With Nothing
I'll also take some time after Seattle to update the rest of this primer to more current decklists, since I haven't time to keep things up to date.
Hi just looking for some opinions on which version I should buy into. I'm about $150 away from either buying another Tundra and playing UWr with blood moons and blasts or putting that money towards 2 back to basics, 1 karakas and playing the Jim Davis list. I may have an additional $150 in the future, but right now I just have that. My gut tells me to buy into the b2b because while they can be reprinted, one GP win or a few more top 8's with b2b will probably spike it pretty high, while Tundras seem to be stable for now..
Any thoughts?
b2b is risky.... tundra is a pretty stable investment but i wouldnt build my deck towards moneymaking...if b2b is the better meta call buy it..Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
depending on jim davis really moved the meta with his calls UWr would be the better pick (show and tell underrated and a stable basic mana build you would definitely miss red blast and the main b2b would be blanks)
karakas is a pretty good investment even for both builds
I would definitely get the Tundra. I don't see B2B going up much more if it does, it's not crucial to the deck. I believe UWr is better, and RL vs no RL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/...sts-2018-04-07
2 miracles decks in gp seattle top8 one mentor tempo and one portent miracles.
Both play one or more btb in main.
Portent miracles plays 2 snaps, 1 gideon, 1 clique (61 cards lel)
After hearing how much traumas Stefanogs has created for the storm players via Soothsaying + CB, and then talking to him on beginning of the Day 2 of GP (got introduced via a mutual friend), gonna give Soothsaying another shot.
What were his thoughts on Soothsaying in other MUs?Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
I'm interested with the idea of playing it but also skeptical, it seems too slow verse Grixis Delver and poor verse G/Bx decks, or am I under valuing the card?
Luke had only 5 islands, not 6. The decklist was wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Magicmarvin
Hi everyone!
I'm new both to this forum as well as the deck. My LGS has recently begun running Legacy tournaments after much pleading from several members of our community (including myself).
I've read through the primer as well as various older primers (pre-top banning).
I wanted some advice regarding decklist optimisation. Unfortunately, I'm on a budget and don't have several pieces that I've seen running around.
I own two Tundras but no Volcanics first of all, so I'm aiming for the straight UW list. However, I don't own any Back to Basics and as they've spiked considerably I'd prefer not to purchase them if possible. Some people say that they're critical, others no so much. How sub-optimal is it to run no B2B?
I also don't own any engineered explosives and would prefer not to run them as well.
My local meta is mainly comprised of the following:
Death and Taxes (1 or 2)
Storm (1)
Lands (1)
Sneak and Show (1-2)
Belcher (1)
Grixis Delver Death's Shadow (1) [Budget manabase reasons]
BUG Delver
Burn (Several)
Miracles (Several)
Would you say that Counterbalance would be preferable against this meta?
My current list:
Instant (17)
4x Brainstorm
2x Flusterstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Predict
4x Swords to Plowshares
Creature (6)
3x Monastery Mentor
3x Snapcaster Mage
Enchantment (3)
1x Search for Azcanta
2x Counterbalance
Sorcery (11)
4x Ponder
4x Portent
3x Terminus
Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Land (20)
1x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
6x Island
3x Plains
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Tundra
Sideboard
1x Containment Priest
2x Council's Judgment
3x Disenchant
1x Entreat the Angels
1x Pithing Needle
1x Search for Azcanta
1x Spell Pierce
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Vendilion Clique
I've also considered going up on 1 mana interaction such as Path to Exile or Spell Pierce and running the 4th Snapcaster Mage.
Any thoughts or advice on the main deck/side board?
Thanks a bunch!
:laugh:
With lots of burn and control mirrors i think CB is good. I think you may need a few more white grind cards to have a chance versus the red control decks. Turn 2 CB can take you there but generally redblasts own all your CA cards. I like entreat of the board as it's hard to deal with. However into plays into their flusterstorm post board. Maybe you can afford to run Gideon as well? It dodges both red blast and fluster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enderlbs
Now thats interesting - and makes that decklist make more sense. Any way to get WotC to actually correct the coverage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
He's on this forum, you can just PM him, why go thru me? Long story short, he's favoring Soothsaying over Search. He just likes the interaction of Soothsaying + CB a lot. You're right, other than lucky blind flips, it's most likely too slow against Grixis Delver opponent, the value of running this is more evident against Czech pile.Quote:
Originally Posted by WThomas
Got 2nd in a decent sized 6 round tournament to win a Moat. First place was a Mox Emerald, so I was a little bummed. Moat is nice because I'll actually play with it at some point. Here is the list, might do a report if I'm bored in the future.
// 61 Maindeck
// 6 Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Monastery Mentor
// 21 Instant
4 Predict
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
4 Force of Will
// 20 Land
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
2 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
5 Island
3 Plains
1 Arid Mesa
// 3 Planeswalker
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 11 Sorcery
4 Ponder
3 Portent
3 Terminus
1 Council's Judgment
// 15 Sideboard
// 1 Artifact
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
// 4 Creature
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
// 1 Enchantment
SB: 1 Blood Moon
// 6 Instant
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Abrade
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
// 1 Land
SB: 1 Mountain
// 2 Sorcery
SB: 2 Supreme Verdict
Hi everyone,
I was attending a 90 people tournament this weekend, playing for the first time this deck.
My list:
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Search for Azcanta
4 Brainstorm
1 Council's Judgment
1 Counterspell
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ponder
3 Portent
2 Predict
1 Preordain
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
SB:
2 Back to Basics
1 Celestial Purge
2 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Sudden Shock
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
Below the report of my matches:
1) Grixis Delver
1-2- He don't play well so he is hitting Terminus and other removal spells too easily
1-0
2) Infect
1- Lack of removal and loss counter war against nexus strategy. All other creatures are not a problem but I loose to nexus.
2- Sudden shock is key against Nexus and other creatures.
3- Nexus*3 on his side, lack of counter to protect my swords from multiple vine and his fow. No sideboard cards hit and I made mistakes when sideboarding (should enter +1 clique and +1 pyro)
1-1
3) Lands
1- He is going to 4 life after a great game, I Jace a marit lage (force him to do it in my main phase) but multiple maze prevent me from killing him. Lack b2b maindeck and CB don't work to counter multiple loam and he kill me with molten. I failed to find my removals (council and explo) in time.
2- He is too slow once I surgical Loam, I kill with entreat.
3- Not many time left, I have to hurry, surgical loam again and going for a quick entreat despite his maze, was close from a draw because of multiple maze next turn.
2-1
4) Lands
1- Too quick for me, T1 mox Loam, CB always fails to counter loam even with brainstorm, lack b2b maindeck
2- Same start for him almost, T1 exploration, I fow, T2 loam and he find quickly a mox. I don't have my sideboard cards (disenchant*2, surgical*2, b2b*2) nor explosive and after too many turns I finally put in play b2b but he have a forest and a mox. He ghost quarter my plains and kill me with tracker and molten. I can't find a Sword neither despite many many cantrips.
2-2
5) Grixis Delver
1- Too quick for me, and he manage to counter my Terminus, I can't counter back.
2- He counter again my Terminus but I waited him with Verdict this time after and it's the game.
3- He plays more slowly this time, in play he was left with a pyromancer, making a significant number of tokens (4). I am still high in life at 11. I assemble Jace and Entreat with him having 3 cards in hand the first turn of Turns. I created 3 angels because I was thinking he may have a Fow and a Pierce in hand, so I keep 2 mana open to counter back. In fact no counter and he plays a gurmag, a shaman and another pyro on his turn. He is at 16 and attack me with pyro and tokens putting me at 8. Turn 3 now, I draw Terminus so I am wondering if I play a draw because he have many damage on the table. I evaluate the damage, it should be fine but very close. I attack with 1 angel, and cast gideon after Brainstorm with Jace (was searching for a sword it may be a mistake according to spectators, I should have bounce back the Gurmag). I make a 2/2. He activate shaman eot and on his last turn attack with everything putting me at 3 after blocks, activate shaman I am on 1. My last turn I attack with the 3 angels making the 12 damage.
3-2
6) BUG Nemesis
1- Terminus and Jace are very strong
2- Terminus, more verdicts, pyro and Jace are very strong
I don't really fear HTT, with predict I can recover pretty quickly, this card is key against HTT strategies.
4-2
7) 4c control
1- He beat me down with 2 baleful strix, I explosives them but I am low on life at 10. He manage to make great CA with kolaghan and bringing baleful back, despite me countering the first, he is doing same thing next turn. After he kill my Jace with snap and kolaghan.
2- More counters help, but he is also playing pyroblast so my Jace don't resolve neither. CB are useless, hitting his decays. I manage to finally put a Jace and assemble entreat a few turns later after him double fow my Gideon.
3- only 5 minutes left, draw.
4-1-2
For a first time it was not that bad, but I feel weird about CB. Was good against Grixis but it seems not that mandatory. Some opponent spells I countered with CB was not very relevant to the game.
Gideon was not good enough, I can't protect him, even against 4c control and strix/bolt/kolaghan.
Search is too many times irrelevant, hitting decay most of the time or being useless against many matchups. I feel like I can win without it, even if I really enjoy to play it.
I miss Back to Basics maindeck for Lands. I feel like it's quiet hard to win against loam and ghost quarter strategy without it.
I will try next time to not play CB, play more counters instead (counterspell, fluster) and to also play Mentors instead of Gideon. Also brings maindeck B2B instead of Search, going down to 2 Tundra.
What do you think ?
Was reading the dragon stompy thread and apparently new karn shits all over miracles if it resolves. Frankly, I don't really have much trouble believing this, as it seems to work similarly to Nissa Vital Force. I'm expecting to see this show in in MUD as a probable 4 of (in a matchup that was already pretty poor) as well as potentially in Eldrazi. We have any plan to deal with it besides not letting it resolve / additional copies of council's judgment?
I've just read the thread too, they just said it was good vs Miracles once? I don't see the 'shits all over if it resolves'. Karn is a strong card, I expect it to be played a bit in Legacy, but I don't really see it as being any more threatening than Chandra so if they're cutting her for Karns I'm happy. Countermagic, Council's Judgment (2) and Mentor (3) are my answers to planeswalkers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuuri117
Off the current topic of how to beat Dragon Stompy:
Has anyone tried From the Ashes in place of Back to Basics or Blood Moon? Seems good against the current greedy manabases, albeit possibly narrow. Its also expensive to cast.
I'm curious if anyone has tried using Teferi, Hero of Dominaria in any lists? I am optimistic that he could be a 1 or 2 of in some lists. Perhaps running him with more straight counterspells to better utilize his plus ability, or predicts, since his minus ability seems to jive nicely with the predict miracles build. He also has a game ending ultimate. Thoughts?
Hi, all. I'm looking at taking the following list to SCG Atlanta this weekend for the classic and the side events. Is there anything egregiously wrong with the list, or anything I haven't taken into consideration?
MAIN:
Creatures:
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells:
4 Brainstorm
1 Flusterstorm
4 Ponder
4 Portent
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Counterbalance
2 Predict
1 Search for Azcanta
2 Back to Basics
1 Council's Judgment
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
4 Terminus
Lands:
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Plains
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
SIDE:
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Flusterstorm
2 Path to Exile
3 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict
Some notes: I notice most lists are running a 2-2 split between Tundras and Volcanics. I'm on a 2-1 split pretty much entirely because I don't have a second Volcanic. Is it even worth the side splash for the Blast effects if I only have one (hard to protect) red source? I've geared my sideboard to be generically good against a wide variety of decks, as I'm sure I'll be playing against a lot of different decks at the event. I followed the advice of some more experienced players and shifted the last Snapcaster to the side, as they gain more value in games 2 and 3 once you've configured your interaction to suit the opponent's deck. Between the full 4 Terminus and StP, my removal suite in the main is pretty tight. I included the Verdict in the side for grindy creature matchups. I also included 2x Path to Exile for the same reason, but I'm not sure that's the best use of those slots. I've considered putting 2 Mentors there so I can bring in different threats in matchups that require it. I'd like to hear other players' thoughts on that.
Part of what makes Jace so good is that having him around multiple turns makes it so difficult to lose. He just puts you so much farther ahead if you 0 him twice then he gets blasted compared to plussing Teferi (or any other walker) twice before it dies. Basically, any non JTMS walker needs to do something other than gain straight card advantage (ie: Gideon, AoZ) or not be blue (Chandra, ToD, who our mana cannot support).
No posts in about a week? Might as well suggest some Jank:
Psychic Possession
For grindy matchups. Also sets up miracles every turn and keeps ponder live against a Leovold. Yes it's terrible, but I got nothing else going on!
Why is it greedy/narrow? Back to Basic basically says you cannot commit to running Karakas and/or Search. FtA can actually convert a Karakas/Serarch into a basic land. Let's say B2B or FtA gets countered on stack, Snapcaster can actually flashback FtA, which is another perk. B2B requires opponent's tapping and sometimes an active DRS would allow Grixis deck to squeeze out. Instead of MD B2B, one ought to try MD FtA, your Lands opponent probably won't see it coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle
Most of our discussion has shifted away from this place to our Discord. If you'd like to join, feel free to click this link below!Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
https://discord.gg/hVhkvEW
Have been feeling underwhelmed by V-Clique. While impactful in grindy control mirrors, and can deal with planewalkers, and can speed up a clock vs storm or Sneak and show, It rarely plays out this way. Its horrible vs the control decks playing Strix, It doesn't create a clock like monastery mentor does, and I'm really tempted to make the 2nd Clique I have in the board a 4th snapcaster mage. Thoughts?
Also that discord link is dead.
I mostly agree, Clique is a fine card but rarely seems to pull its weight these days. I'm playing three Mentor in the board, the third was a Clique sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendawg
Here's another invite, shouldn't expire - https://discord.gg/sHGrP5F
I am currently on a Entreat build, with 3 Mentors SB.
I run 2 copies of Entreat MD. Are you happy with just one ? Personnally I had sometimes some troubles to close games with a single one.
Florian
The problem you described is real. However, there're couple things to note: 4-color control with Strix is one MU. Clique is a versatile SB card, people usually don't want to focus that much on a single MU. Just because they run Strix does't mean they'll have it untapped when you flash Clique-in EOT to go after their Planeswalker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendawg
Another thing is the function of Clique vs Snapcaster. They fundamentally serve different purpose. Going back to 4-color control, this is a MU about CA and multiple angles of attack. I get your frustration, just don't think this 1-card swap would give you the edge in this MU.
Long story short, Clique is still effective and disruptive against combo decks.
Anyone put up any results (good or bad) testing Ancestral Visions?
Do we start packing Stony Silence for Steel Stompy?
I think I'd rather go to a card like By Force that also serves as a chalice answer. Though Stony Silence / Null Rod might make sense in UW or if you're looking for a card against storm as well.
Haha and here is my prophecy of Null Rod in Miracle :laugh:
Anyway, 100% of Eldrazi’s and Steel Stompy’s lands are non basic. Back to Basics and a well timed Terminus should do it
Return of the King!Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Everybody is coming back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
Oh look one of my comments is in your sig!
Aura of Silence and Serenity.. for white players MUD has never been a problem
If you had access to a Moat, would it be something you would probably utilize in the sideboard, or would it not make the cut?
Moat is great and you should never pass up a chance to play it, but attacking with Mentors > Moat sadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
So in the board alongside a couple clique with options such as 1-2 Entreat and Baneslayer Angel?
As I often face Eldrazis, and since I am on an Entreat build, I run 1 Moat in SB. In other situations, I guess there are better choices for this slot (eg Humility, PTE...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
If you also run Blood moon / B2B in your SB, beware of the WW in the cost (be sure to play 3 or 4 basic plains)
Florian