Now you know why I was repping a 4 Wish/3 Tide build.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupREME-10
@Spigore
You play 2 in your SB? How often is it fantastic?
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Now you know why I was repping a 4 Wish/3 Tide build.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupREME-10
@Spigore
You play 2 in your SB? How often is it fantastic?
It's a powerful card in the early turns. Reflecting targeted discard and Hymn is a very good play.
Against fast zoo I used to board it in, against big zoo I never did.
I prefer boarding in Dismember since it's not dependant on your opponent playing bolt effects and your opponent having <2 lands untapped. Even now, with every zoo-list playing KotR, they even have more access to untapped lands.
Imho EOT wishing into key spells should only be done if you're in a tight spot and your opponent forces you to combo next turn. If any opponent counters your Wish, he's a moron. :tongue:
To me, I thought wish always gave me the cutting advantage over the opponent, getting me dedicated cards in tight situations. However, when starting to keep track (and the meta changed as well) of the wishtargets, I ended up only getting counterspells, ravenous trap or BSZ.
I took out the wishes, together with Serapus started tuning a wishless list and never looked back.
It's pretty much depending on your playstyle. Wish is clunky, mana intensive but does give you an answer to the game progress.
Well I am certainly interested in making this deck better; so with that in mind, show me what your or Serapus are running for Cunning-less lists. Maybe I will splerge for Christmas and do some purchases to give me more options.
Thanks in advance.
Has anybody tested Surgical Extraction as wish target? At least as 1 of? I'm prettey tempeted to!
I was testing peek as a 1 of MD together with 3 opt. I liked it. The information about oppo's hand is sometimes unvaluable. However, it's a flex slot for me. Probably i'll cut it in favour of the 4th wish and test surgical. 2 opt - 1 peek is too clunky?
Finally, has anybody tested disrupt seriously? Any comment about that?
Ok, I've already been here and I'm gonna be a douche again.
Let's say I'd like to (re)build a Storm combo deck . Could you guys tell me
a) why to play this over ANT, which seems to be neckbreaking back these days.
b) how much can this deck reallistically get to a top8 in a tournament, given perfect play*. I know this question is kinda trollish, but I'm coming from a competitive approach. Pet deck are cute and all to be played, but you have to work your ass for the money when paying an entry fee. Plus, I've read Silent Requiem some time ago advicing not to pick up the deck if looking to win seriously, and this kinda sounds clear to me. And I'm not sure Snapcaster Mage, even if to be recognized to be an estabilished improvement for the deck, is enough. I mean, this deck is frozen on 2007-2008.
*I'm no storm combo novice at all, so I'm not telling that to brag.
I ask these questions because I've always had a soft spot for this deck, but its fizzle-rate and inconsistency always made me abandon it when in goldfish. Still, I can't find anything truly "fresh" and out-of-meta combo as of now to play, so I'm banging my head against this wall again.
Also, very interested in that Wish-less list as well, if possible. Thank you anticipately.
Wishing into Surgical Extraction is wicked good for 2 more storm count so long as you have the 2 life to spend. You also get to fleece the opponents graveyard, hand and library as you add to that count. Oh and with Snapcaster Mage in the deck you can S-E again, nice to remove a load of control cards if your in that type of war and trying to reload your hand as a pre-empt to giong off.
Anyway, S-E has options and I like it.
made an account just to say this on the topic of surgical extraction:
played ANT over the weekend....here's turn 3 on the play of a defensive game 2. He duressed me twice and pondered twice during his turn, leaving me with only brain freeze, cunning wish, and land. I EOT brain froze him for 15 and got Tendrils in the graveyard. During my turn I, I laid land, wished for Surgical naming Tendrils of Agony and he scooped.
TL,DR: Surgical Extraction FTW (should be 3-4x IMO in SB)
@Cid
I'm playing 2 Disrupt maindeck and I like it really well. It's a very versatile card, can net you an early turn if played right. Last Saturday vs Burn it countered a turn 2 Fireblast, after a Lavamancer and Chain Lightning,which he couldn't pay (yes I know, not the best Burn player I've met)!
It's best use is ofcourse vs discard or opponent EOT Brainstorms. In counterwar, it has to be timed right to be a real hard counter!
@Piceli
A) ANT is the agressive combodeck. Solidarity stalls as far as possible then goes for lethal. Ofcourse the pro thing about Soli is the all-instant-speed!
B) Solidarity is NOT the right deck for this meta at the moment. A lot of decks are running Stifle and an insane pack of disruption. However as far as I can tell, it's the player who can give the cutting edge to Solidarity.
If you're in it to win it, you should create yourself a DTB, not Solidarity. I love playing Soli and I accept the fact of losing some games. Some decks are hard to beat, but none of them are an auto-loss!
My wishless list comes basically down to a few things;
- No permanent removal mainboard
- More countermagic
- 1 Twincast
- 2 Snapcaster Mage
- 4 (!) Opt
My problem with disrupt is make a deck that controls and combo in a midway fashion. Understand? I mean what is you control/ back up configuration when for running disrupt?
I'm not best placed to answer, perhaps someone will offer a better response in due course. Storm is all new to me. When I last played the best combo was a turn one Necropotence or Specter off a Ritual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
Few recognise Solidarity, and this gives you a huge advantage as they wait for Candle Sticks and Spiral; no one has a dedicated sideboard plan against you. They also see 'combo deck' and rush or compromise their plays to beat your clock. Your goal is not to combo as soon as possible, but to drop lands and wait with the knowledge you can go when need be.
I play RUG / Team America competativly, as I'm pretty bad with Solidarity (but getting better). Some games I just cannot win with Solidarity (TA and UW Ctrl are a headache), but I recon the decks good enough to T8 events I've attended (+40 persons for dual / force playsets, so good / fair competition).
Almost anything is viable for T8 in Legacy. Maverick is a bunch or 2/2 hate bears you turn sideways, Lands does precicely nothing, and Dredge has more similarities wih Monopoly than Magic. All have a fair chance, but like Solidarity, you can argue there are better decks.
ANT always looks like one of the top 2-3 decks, its a good choice (but people plan for it).
Hey everyone,
I've read this entire thread (which took me something like 5 days....definitely a lot of content here!) and I had some ideas. I played Solidarity back when Legacy was still called 1.5, before Mental Misstep, before Vengevines, before Remand and Twincast, even before Solidarity was a deck to beat and one of the big 3 of the metagame. I was drawn back to it at SCG St. Louis when a friend of mine showed me a new list with Snapcaster Mage, and I was hooked.
The community's already discussed how Snapcaster Mage (itself) greatly increases the consistency of the deck, and has maybe touched a little bit on how that greater consistency also increases the fundamental turn of Solidarity. Let me say first and foremost that I completely agree that Solidarity is at it's most powerful when drawing cards on the draw step and waiting until it absolutely has to go off to combo, but the greatest thing I think that Snapcaster Mage brings to the deck is that it's much, much easier to get 2+ High Tides off at the start of the chain, greatly increasing the turn 3 percentage. I think that Snapcaster Mage is the one thing that will return Solidarity to greatness, both by increasing the raw speed and also increasing the resilience to discard and to Counterspells. I run the full 4.
Doing so also turns Brain Freeze into a really consistent weapon. In the past you would Brain Freeze yourself to turn on Flash of Insight. With a Snapcaster Mage in hand (or on the stack), Brain Freeze IS a Flash of Insight. It's also a play you make all day long, given the ease of finding a Snapcaster Mage to flash Brain Freeze back when you're going off. And because of that, I've had more and more success with Visions of Beyond. I know it was tested and discarded earlier in the thread, but I think it may have been premature. I'm just fine if in the early game it just cantrips to find me land, especially when late game it's pretty consistently Ancestral Recall. The fact that it gives you extra percentage points against a sketchy matchup in Dredge is just icing. Mid-combo, rather than drawing opts, you're drawing Ancestral Recall, and the extra card advantage, combined with the card advantage that you gain from Snapcaster Mage, really improves the deck a lot. I'm currently waffling between 19 land/3 Visions and 18/4.
Thoughts? Has anyone had any testing with Visions of Beyond post Snapcaster Mage?
Vision of Beyond is a card I tried and I was quite disapointed, I only tested it during goldfishes though. But the fact remains that I want this card to be good so bad, that it gives me some satisfaction to see that at least someone seems to use it efficiently.
If you have a deck list to share I'd be more than happy to test it at my local store.
Do you think that a Vision of beyond solidarity deck could run a Snap/Snappy mage/Intuition package?
Reading your post I was foreseeing something like that:
4 snapcaster mage
3 snap
3 intuition
3 brainsfreeze
4 force of will
4 vision of beyond
3 meditate
3 high tide
4 reset
2 turnabout
4 brainstorm
3 cunning wish
2 open slots (2 impulse?/ 1 blue sun zenith and something else?)
12 islands
6 fetches
SB
at least 1 meditate, 1 turnabout, 1 blue sun zenith, 1 high tide, maybe the 4th brain freeze...
I think Intuition is pretty much completely unnecessary. Snapcaster Mage is so good on its own, and it does everything we need in the deck as it is that I just can't see diluting the deck for Intuition. But your list is close to mine, though I couldn't ever see playing anything but a full 4 Impulse.
So.. I'm not sure why it took me so long to realize this.. But using echoing truth on your snapcaster's mid combo is absolutely awesome.
And using Snap, even more so.Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfstorm
Well, i've had a nice run including some 4 or so smaller(30-40'ish players) tournament wins, including a last chance GPT, same amount of top8's, and at latest today nicely split 2'nd place on a 90'ish player tournament. So given "perfect play" and more so perfect metagaming, and some luck with the pairing lotteries, one can realistically win tournaments with this deck...Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
today's matchups;
"gwr-zoo", relatively easy, basic goldfishing under a clock.
2-0
animator, though most seem to think this as a bad matchup, it totally depends on the sideboard. eg. how many disrupts,diverts,flusterstorms and twincasts&whatnot you can stuff into the 75 cards. (still have positive record against this decktype)
1-2
Dredge, had a read on opponent playing combo (saw a LED&gemstone mine on his side of the table between previous rounds.) Thus the force of willing a t1 putrid imp just feels bad. (but nevertheless correct play). after disrupting some breaktroughs and wish-diverting deep analysis we actually get to play some real magic.
Second game is tight as he forces me to use remands and counters everyturn instead of giving me a turn to setup. Manage to win finally as I get the third land on t5 or so.
2-0
UGB-jaces,hymns,snapcasters,tarmos etc... diverts&disrupts simply shine in this matchup. Oh yeah, and opponents who tap out for jace.
2-1
UR-painter-show&tell emrakul.
2-1, Best way to win this matchup is the sheer inconsistency of a deck that plays two combos when it just could play 1. Due to the inconsistensy, manage to keep the combo on check, while setupping for the kill. (show&tell is so slow, and it gives me and additional island into play! so good.). although I have to admit, the multible blasts are annoying.
UGB- hymns, snapcasters,tarmos, stiffles etc... no jaces.
I heard that the decks manabase features 6 duals and 7 fetches+ 4 wastelands.
That kind of manabase just asks to be mulliganing all day long, and luckily so he does.
Disrupts&diverts would have been golden, but luckily the mulligans on the other side were enough.
2-1.
I won't bother you with the decklist, I'll just say next tournament there will be atleast 6 1cc counters in form of diverts, disrupts and flusterstorms somewhere in the deck&side...(as the force of wills simply got to go against snapcaster decks, and the 1cc counters give the edge needed against animator&such...)
The sad part about it all is I have been using snap's ever since snapcaster was printed, I just always thought of it as a answer to problems than a combo piece >_<.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Requiem
Congrats Nuorukain, thanks for the report as it is good to see the deck still winning.
I am far from the pilot I need to be to win events with this deck, so I have a question for you.
What is the best way to play through Emrakul ? I find it an issue still.
Cheers
From my experience there are 2 effective ways of dealing with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupREME-10
1st- Generate enough mana for a lethal Zenith. You can BrainFreeze them first, and when Emrakul is revealed, you Zenith them for the rest of their deck.
(If you have another BrainFreeze, you can cast the 2nd one when the 1st Emrakul is revealed. This way there'll be even less cards in their deck for you to Zenith).
2nd: You BrainFreeze them. When it hits an Emrakul, you Wish for a Surgical Extraction and hit it. All copies go away, and he shuffle his Library, but your BrainFreeze copies keep resolving, and you can continue to combo without fear of Emrakul.
ty,Quote:
Originally Posted by SupREME-10
there's a Finnish National Legacy Champs (or something) next weekend,
I'm aiming to seriously win that thing, but unluckily there are not many autowin-matchups on the way.
It'll always need a quite a bit of luck to win the whole thing anyway, even if all the matchups were 70-30,
you'd still need to be lucky... and not many matchups have those odds...
But to the question;
Playset of remands and the additional land drop they give you with their show&tells usually gets you far..! ;)
But seriously, the emrakulls that have hit the board or are still on the deck?;
later; you just need the additional resources to go off at ease against 4 emrakulls&counters,
thus avoid the "tight spot"-comboing as much as you can. Also sideboard out atleast all additional brainfreezes
(if not all of them), as they won't be too good alone...
But then again, as scatman said, the wish&surgical is also valid, but then again it slightly depends on the build.
for eg. atm I'm running 1 Brainfreeze main, thus I'll rather use the wish for a BSZ for "enough" of cards to
just Remand the single brainfreeze enough times and zenith the opponent out while the emrakul triggers are staying nicely on the stack...
the earlier; I don't just see them dropped into play fast enough to be afraid of them. Though I have joked about playing Curfew
just because...! (1cc untargeting bounce that gets me my snapcaster back? -like blue diabolic edict!)
Also, there is always the option of playing tropical island for the hunting pack
I do play that also, as imho it improves the fast aggro matchups enough for it to have a slot,
BUT it also gives you an alternate way to dodge weird losing situations. (hunting pack for 5-6 in response to something nasty
is often the easiest path to victory..)
(Oh, and btw, what they say about the long learning curve with this deck is imho not a joke. Started playing with it once in a while
somewhere 2005 +/- a year... 2011 was a year I played almost solely that in legacy, and now 2012,
I think I can almost say I'm competetive with it. Not perfect nor exceptional, just good...)