[Deck] Dredge

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Originally Posted by joeltheeditor

So any advice as to how to play around relic or any tricks you think a novice Dredge player may miss?

I agree with siding out the breakthrough against GY hate. For the same reason would you ever look at siding out firestorm? I would think not because you can pick to old discard a card or two and against decks that its relevant it seems to be pretty relevant.

What about Surgical Extraction? Is my best bet really to ditch Macabre in hope of only giving my opponent a 2 for 1?

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Surgical extraction is usually like extirpate:you dont care unless he hast more of them. 1 extraction does nothing. If you can,leaving open coliseum +mana helps if they try to hit dredgers.
Also, I really would not side out all breakthroughs. After you found a solution to their hate it is much easier to get back in the game with, exspecially if you were slowdredging.

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Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus

Also, I really would not side out all breakthroughs. After you found a solution to their hate it is much easier to get back in the game with, exspecially if you were slowdredging.

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Assuming you have it in your opening hand right? If you're going to dredge it away then there is no point. Plus if you didn't completely side out all breakthrough except for like 2 or 1, then the chances of opening it aren't very good.

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Originally Posted by Que

Assuming you have it in your opening hand right? If you're going to dredge it away then there is no point. Plus if you didn't completely side out all breakthrough except for like 2 or 1, then the chances of opening it aren't very good.

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Drawing it in One Or two drawsteps Or opening it.i only board out one Or two copies.

http://www.majorspoilers.com/wp-cont...rd-644x900.jpg

Will this see play in the LED versions of Dredge? Seems bad in non-LED dredge though because of the red color and the relatively little benefit you get from flashback.

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

http://www.majorspoilers.com/wp-cont...rd-644x900.jpg

Will this see play in the LED versions of Dredge? Seems bad in non-LED dredge though because of the red color and the relatively little benefit you get from flashback.

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It is an deep anal. and a careful study wrapped in one. I think lion's eye diamond just had an orgasm.

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Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus

@dredgekid I read all of your posts, don't worry.At least against GW and Combo I would never ever cut Breakthrough. The ability to race ooze is very important. In other matchups it depends on playstyle. I just like to therapy for hate ,then power through a breakthrough and end the game on the spot. Also I would run Iona main in a Combo infested Meta, but again thats just playstyle.
Agree on the macabre thing BTW,those are awful.

@ Joel
Definately cut the 4th grudge and put in the 4th chain. You need to have it in your opening hand after all. Also cut the macabres for 3 purify/purge.I would add a second Elesh Norn too,for the maverick matchup.

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I'm running firestorm main. that fights ooze well.

I don't believe this card is real, but since there's a chance it could be, this card would definetively give me headaches to fit into all the versions of deck I own... But I think it would fit.

If that card is real, Dredge will shit all over this format, because you can safely cut Cephalid Coliseum and just run 11 Gold Lands + Lion's Eye Diamond or you can run 11 Gold Lands and the 8+ cantrip configuration with this instead of Brainstorm. That's +4 Careful Study with a free set of Deep Analysis for Lion's Eye Diamond, good lord.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

If that card is real, Dredge will shit all over this format, because you can safely cut Cephalid Coliseum and just run 11 Gold Lands + Lion's Eye Diamond or you can run 11 Gold Lands and the 8+ cantrip configuration with this instead of Brainstorm. That's +4 Careful Study with a free set of Deep Analysis for Lion's Eye Diamond, good lord.

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Ehm, what?

Why would you want to 'safely cut' CC? As if it was a necessary evil the deck has to live with. Actually, it's one of the strongest cards in the deck for being both a Land and an uncounterable draw effect. There's no way LED pushes it out with this card. I'd rather cut all Breakthroughs or Careful Studies than CC and then again, probably not for this card.

And who runs Brainstorm?

Definitely though, LED loves it. But still, they won't cut CC.

Dredgers:
4x Golgari-Grave Troll
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Golgari Thug
1x Darkblast

Lands:
4x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Cephalid's Coliseum
3x Tarnished Citadel

Discards/Draw:
4x Careful Study
4x Faithless Looting (replacing Breakthrough)
4x Putrid Imp
4x Lion's Eye Diamond (replacing Firestorm)

GY Goodies:
4x Bridge from Below
4x Narcomoeba
3x Ichorid
2x Dread Return
4x Cabal Therapy


On the sideboard you just run 4x Tireless Tribe to combat hate with Grudge. On faster matchups/hate light you can just keep the LED. Seem very consistant, LED will probably always turn into draw 2 as long as you're dredging. And having another Careful Study intead of Breakthrough gives you more consistency, to get dredge rollling.

Plz never in the life cut breakthought!! Never, if you want to test that card cut CS with is almost the same...

If I were to squeeze this new card 'anal study' in my current LED version, I would trim a little bit of everything.

One of my Cephalid Coliseum would be replaced by a rainbow land to cast it easier. Cephalid Coliseum has been weak right now anyway with stifle and wasteland being pretty common duo. Then I would switch out my three deep anals for three 'anal studies'. Finally I would cut one careful study and one breakthrough for the last 'anal study' and put in another rainbow land as my land count is kinda of low in my LED version.

That is IF this 'anal study' really exists.

Oo Faithless Looting Oo

4 off Faithless Looting, Careful Study, Breakthrough and Firestorm makes me think if we still need Coliseum or permanent outlets like Putrid Imp... just WOW :eek:

Seems too good to be true, but we will see if this card is real....

Assuming Faithless Looting is legit, I'd build LED Dredge like this:

// Lands - 13
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
2 Tarnished Citadel
3 Cephalid Coliseum

// Dredgers - 12
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
1 Darkblast

// Discard - 8
4 Putrid Imp
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// Draw/Discard - 10
4 Breakthrough
4 Faithless Looting
2 Careful Study

// GY-Goodies - 17
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return
4 Bridge from Below

I'm not convinced I would prefer LED Dredge even with Faithless looting. But, the card has been a sweet buff to LED Dredge in my brief testing.


EDIT: I'm actually trying out what I believe is akin to what Final Fortune suggested.

// Lands - 12
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Tarnished Citadel

// Dredgers - 13
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
1 Darkblast

// Discard - 2
2 Phantasmagorian

// Draw/Discard - 12
4 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough

// Draw - 3
3 Winds of Change

// GY-Goodies - 18
4 Bridge from Below
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return

Brainstorm just never worked out in this strategy. With Faithless Looting, we might as well try dropping CC (horror of horrors), and then we pickup Winds of Change. This mulligans somewhat better than my usual DDD approach, 12 of your 15 draw spells discard down.

It has the consistency of DDD, and a lot of drawing power to flip over your deck. In the games I've played so far, I have flashbacked Faithless Looting a non-trivial number of games (which is neat, although not the reason to play the card).



peace,
4eak

I think I'll test it in regular german konkurs dredge, replacing Tireless Tribe for it. I wouldn't cut coliseum for it, coliseum is uncounterable draw, this is reason enough, imho. I wouldn't cur all Breakthrough at once, either, but a few mingh be possible, since there will be so much draw. I'd cut lands for it, if need be. And also DR.

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Originally Posted by Izor

Ehm, what?

Why would you want to 'safely cut' CC? As if it was a necessary evil the deck has to live with. Actually, it's one of the strongest cards in the deck for being both a Land and an uncounterable draw effect. There's no way LED pushes it out with this card. I'd rather cut all Breakthroughs or Careful Studies than CC and then again, probably not for this card.

And who runs Brainstorm?

Definitely though, LED loves it. But still, they won't cut CC.

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I approach Dredge from more of the breathweapon/4reak or Manaless Dredge school of thought, and my problem with Cepahlid Coliseum is that it's fundamentally a turn 3 card if you play DDD where Careful Study, Breakthrough and now "Careful Anal" can all be played turn 2 to stream line the deck and make it consisetently faster.

Basically, all I want to do with this deck is T1:DDD, T2: Dredge, Land, Draw Spell gg? and "Careful Anal" is what gives you the draw density to do that where Brainstorm fell flat.

Faithless Looting seems pretty good.

I'd make a LED list like this:

Lands [12]
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Tarnished Citadel
2 Cephalid Coliseum

Dredgers [12]
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug

Draw [10]
4 Breakthrough
3 Careful Study
3 Faithless Looting

DR Targets [1]
1 Flame-kin Zealot

Outlets [8]
4 Putrid Imp
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

Goodies [10]
4 Bridge From Below
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return

Dudes [7]
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid

Sideboard [15]
4 Nature's Claim
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Memory's Journey
2 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ichorid
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

But Gui has a point... perhaps the standard LEDless list replacing Tribes with Faithless Looting seems pretty strong. Still, I'd love a reason to play LED again >:D

Why would Tribe get replaced in LEDless by Faithless Looting? More, why would LEDless want the card at all? Functionally, it is a harder to cast Study, and the argument that it has flashback doesn't matter because in an arbitrary game we won't have three lands.

FL really bridges a gap between the two variants of dredge. Forcing us to use LED, it still requires we incorporate the 11 gold lands of LEDless so it can act as a turn one Careful Study consistently.

To start tests with Looting, I'd use Feldman's list with these changes:
-4 Tireless Tribe
-4 Careful Study
+4 Lion's Eye Diamond
+4 Faithless Looting

That makes the most sense for me. Some number of FKZ, Sphinx, and/or Sun Titan could be included too.

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Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk

Why would Tribe get replaced in LEDless by Faithless Looting? More, why would LEDless want the card at all? Functionally, it is a harder to cast Study, and the argument that it has flashback doesn't matter because in an arbitrary game we won't have three lands.

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I'd replace Tireless Tribe for +4 Careful Study any day. Tribe blocks like a boss, but who needs blocking in a combo deck?

Hong Kong vs. USA @ Worlds Team

Tsz Yeung Lam (Hong Kong)
World Championships 2011

Tsz Yeung Lam's list: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...lds11/teamsfm3

MD:
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
4 Stinkweed Imp

4 Breakthrough
4 Bridge from Below
4 Careful Study
4 Cabal Therapy (missing @ the MTG site, but it's a bug or an error making this card not appearing in the decklist)
1 Darkblast
2 Dread Return

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
2 Darkslick Shores
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Tarnished Citadel


SB:
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Extirpate
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Mindbreak Trap
4 Naturalize
3 Stony Silence


The SB looks interesting... What are your thoughts on this?