[Deck] GW/x Maverick

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Originally Posted by CorpT

I don't think you can say that Aven is required or optimal. The fact that someone who supports Sigarda also supports Aven makes me question all of their suggestions.

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As much as I am a dedicated fighter against "ad hominem", in this case you are talking about the very likely most succesful Maverick pilot in the world. So if you come out comparing sheer finishes w/ or wo/ Mindcensor, you always have to keep in mind that Marius' contributions to this deck are among the most influential ones.

Feel free to cut Mindcensor if you don't like it. For my part, I think two is ok but it's just such a house when flashed in turn2 that it outright wins games.

Regarding Angel vs. Troll: having played both sides of Maverick and the decks said cards are good against, let me say that Hexproof is WAY more annoying than uncounterability. In practice Thrun is always counterable anyway since in 4 out of 5 times you're "casting" him via Zenith=4. So it's basically flying vs. regeneration. The later ain't all that important in the face of basically the only removal hitting it being Perish anyway. Regenerating in combat is fine, but right now I think I'd go with the flying.

I mean, what do you really want in the mirror? Connecting with Jitte before your opponent has a Flyer+Mother of Runes online. With everybody cutting Mindcensors, the Angel becomes even more valueable then as it's also unaffectedby Maze of Ith.

Give it a try, it's got potential to be even better than Thrun. The casting cost wouldn't really bother me. It's not like costing 1 more mana is such a huge deal for this deck anyways.

EDITED:

I'm pretty sure this thread has had discussions on Aven Mindcensor before. As a generalization, it seems that American players do not find it to carry it's weight when compared to other cards. Whereas European players like the extra hate bear. Yes, Aven is really good within the first few turns of the game, but after that it loses value because Maverick can operate like a well oiled machine off of three or so lands. Yes you can flash it in, in response to our numerous triggers like Knight and it can make our Mystics into squires but the truth of the matter is more and more decks have been cutting the Stoneforge plan and moving to 2 Jitte main. Your bird is only really good for GSZ and Knight activations, both of which the deck can play without.

As for Aven against our worst matchup. Yes, it's good but can you reliably cast it on turn 2? It requires you have it in your hand with 2 lands and a Noble Hierarch. This is where consistency comes into play as a turn 2 Aven is much more significant than a turn 3 Aven. American players are choosing to run Thalia over the bird because it can be cast consistently on turn 2 as well as Ethersworn Canonist. Between Ethersworn, Teeg, and Thalia our match up against combo is good enough to sway the tide and allow us to win without making the other match ups we have worse. Without the Aven Mindcensor we can run more threats that deal more damage or more utility creatures that allow for plays that win us the game.

The reason I even brought up the Fauna Shaman build is because that is what I am currently testing. I want to see if Adam Cai's innovation is worth the slots and as I don't personally like Thalia or Aven Mindcensor why not try out Fauna Shaman because a Survival of the Fittest sounds better than running multiples of a card I'm not really impressed with. Me personally, I would rather have another Scryb Ranger in the deck if I was playing the normal GW Maverick version. This is due to its flexibility with both Dryad Arbor and Noble Hierarch and it's ability to be both an attacker and blocker as well as having protection from blue.

A Scryb Ranger with Sword of Light and Shadow definitely feels like assembling Tron against Esper.

Julian, the Americans got their own Maverick-God Koby, I said this earlier that he is Europe's Koby but they did not listen.

Ive been some testing with this angel this afternoon aswell and I gotta say he is better than I thought and a 5/5 flying is really mightey.

Eh I'm not sure I like being held up in that high of regard. I just play tight and get lucky.

There's about 6-10 flex slots in the deck right now, and Aven Mindcensor has its place in rotation among them. I think it's more metagame dependent than a matter of optimal decklist - for that we've done a lot of work to streamline the mana base and creature selection.

I think that the 4th Pridemage may have a place in the American metagame right now. It's starting to become a race to Jitte and that is where having expendable removal becomes great. I'd also like to add the 2nd Sylvan Library back in preparation for black removal decks. This is anticipatory however, and I certainly understand playing only 1 still (I remember rationalizing it too about 5 months ago).

Going back to Thalia builds, I feel that Elspeth would be better in the sideboard right now as it gives us the best chance to not have dead cards stuck in hand.

When I first saw Temporal Mastery I thought that Maverick would be the most plug-and-play deck to use (especially the non-Punishing lists)

I felt this way because Maverick does not draw more then top decks AND this deck has all the activated abilities / fatties to make it really hurt.

I'm kind of surprised no one is talking about it in here.

Is it not that great to add 1 Tropical Island and 2 Temporal Mastery in this deck?

For potentially additional land drops, Elspeth activations, knight swings / activations ...

You have the Nobles to back up the U sources. ...or am I just chasing hype?

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Originally Posted by Freggle

...or am I just chasing hype?

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Pretty much. It hurts mulligans, it does nothing betweens Turn 0 to turn 3, and reduces the threat density of the deck.

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Originally Posted by Koby

Pretty much. It hurts mulligans, it does nothing betweens Turn 0 to turn 3, and reduces the threat density of the deck.

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Agreed. As cool as it sounds to go: T1 land, Hierarch -> T2 rip Temporal Mastery... It's not actually really doing much for you, and it absolutely blows to have in your opener.

If I have mom gsz and noble hierarch, with jitte in hand, who takes the turn 1 drop?

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Originally Posted by VITASOY

If I have mom gsz and noble hierarch, with jitte in hand, who takes the turn 1 drop?

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Depends on the other lands in your hand, whether you're on the draw or play, and what matchup you're against.

Noble Hierarch would be played ahead of GSZ however.

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Originally Posted by VITASOY

If I have mom gsz and noble hierarch, with jitte in hand, who takes the turn 1 drop?

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Assuming you have enough lands in hand it might be correct to lead with Mother. Turn 2 play Noble and GSZ for Arbor. Turn three play and equip Jitte on to Dryad Arbor and swing. But this is all hypothetical and match up dependent.

I've been following the thread for a long time and slowly buildin my Maverick, though in MWS i've been playing it for a year. One thing im not sure atm, is to use or not to use maze of ith and Teeg MD, sometimes they win you game one, but half of the time they are useless and will be sided and with something usefull in hand the loss in game 1 wouldve been prevented. So what is your thought concerning this atm?

Oh, and been playing that Sigarda MD and SB, and i dont think it has MD potential, since if you have it in opener, its a dead card for quite awhile, but from SB its been really usefull, have you guys allready playtested it?

It seems amazing to me that anyone would call Aven Mindcensor undercosted. He costs three mana. Three! If they spend one (or less) mana to kill it, that's an incredibly huge tempo swing. Knight is the same thing except much harder to kill and has a huge body. How big is Mindcensor again? Oh right, he's a Coral fucking Eel. He's actually worse than Glowrider because Glowrider actually stops combo from going off most of the time, and has synergy with the rest of the deck, especially played next to Thalia.

And that's assuming you want something just against combo. Hell, he's worse than Mana Tithe for that, which again combos with other cards in your deck and hits every other deck beyond trying to occasionally dead a fetchland (with middling success; I know I've found a relevant land in my top four probably at least half the time I've played against people running this guy.)

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Originally Posted by Telkku

I've been following the thread for a long time and slowly buildin my Maverick, though in MWS i've been playing it for a year. One thing im not sure atm, is to use or not to use maze of ith and Teeg MD, sometimes they win you game one, but half of the time they are useless and will be sided and with something usefull in hand the loss in game 1 wouldve been prevented. So what is your thought concerning this atm?

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I can't imagine not playing them. They're silver bullet tutor targets for common matchups. For only taking up two slots in the deck, they're incredibly powerful.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

It seems amazing to me that anyone would call Aven Mindcensor undercosted. He costs three mana. Three! If they spend one (or less) mana to kill it, that's an incredibly huge tempo swing. Knight is the same thing except much harder to kill and has a huge body. How big is Mindcensor again? Oh right, he's a Coral fucking Eel. He's actually worse than Glowrider because Glowrider actually stops combo from going off most of the time, and has synergy with the rest of the deck, especially played next to Thalia.

And that's assuming you want something just against combo. Hell, he's worse than Mana Tithe for that, which again combos with other cards in your deck and hits every other deck beyond trying to occasionally dead a fetchland (with middling success; I know I've found a relevant land in my top four probably at least half the time I've played against people running this guy.)

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What IBA said.

Maze of Ith is a silver bullet for 50% of the decks in the field. Gaddock Teeg is a silver bullet for 5% of the decks in the field. I think one's a lot easier to justify than the other, although obviously the value of Teeg varies depending upon the expected composition of the metagame you plan on running him in.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

Knight is the same thing except much harder to kill and has a huge body.

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Not that I disagree with you about knight being better, but how is he harder to kill, aside from the fact that he has a bigger body? He does have evasion. Or are you trying to say that he is harder to kill because he has a bigger body? Just a bit confused by your phrasing.

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Originally Posted by baghdadbob

Not that I disagree with you about knight being better, but how is he harder to kill, aside from the fact that he has a bigger body? He does have evasion. Or are you trying to say that he is harder to kill because he has a bigger body? Just a bit confused by your phrasing.

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He's harder to kill because he has a bigger body. He doesn't really care about red removal or Jitte, for instance.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

It seems amazing to me that anyone would call Aven Mindcensor undercosted. He costs three mana. Three! If they spend one (or less) mana to kill it, that's an incredibly huge tempo swing. Knight is the same thing except much harder to kill and has a huge body. How big is Mindcensor again? Oh right, he's a Coral fucking Eel. He's actually worse than Glowrider because Glowrider actually stops combo from going off most of the time, and has synergy with the rest of the deck, especially played next to Thalia.

And that's assuming you want something just against combo. Hell, he's worse than Mana Tithe for that, which again combos with other cards in your deck and hits every other deck beyond trying to occasionally dead a fetchland (with middling success; I know I've found a relevant land in my top four probably at least half the time I've played against people running this guy.)

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

He's harder to kill because he has a bigger body. He doesn't really care about red removal or Jitte, for instance.

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Gotcha, I was just a little confused by the "and" in your sentence.

For those who dropped SFM already. How many copies of Jitte/Swords are you running main deck?

PS: That Sigarda girl (what an awful name, christ...), is better suited in Nic Fit, that can ramp better than GW Maverick. Zenith X=5 is pretty bad, because Thrun already does the job.

PS: That Sigarda girl (what an awful name, christ...), is better suited in Nic Fit, that can ramp better than GW Maverick. Zenith X=5 is pretty bad, because Thrun already does the job.[/QUOTE]

I dropped Thrun month ago, it just didn't help me that much more. Pros with Sigarda are that ( not usual but still ) if opponent plays plays Sneak and Show and show and tell's Emrakul, i can just block it without saccing anything (of course i have to have it in hand, but still) and of course you beat Pox with it and i've been facing kinda lot Pox. I don't think its MD card, but nice in SB.

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Originally Posted by Telkku

... and of course you beat Pox with it and i've been facing kinda lot Pox. I don't think its MD card, but nice in SB.

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After game 1 I'm pretty sure the Pox player sides in Perish anyway.