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Liliana is still a problem, especially for this type of deck with low amount of creatures to be able to attack her. Coupled with Shardless Agent to spam the board, then yes I could see this as a problem matchup. Supreme Verdict could help out here, and maybe even some Geist of St Traft too. There's a lot of potential cards that could go in this matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgs
Shardless BUG is really a problem for UWx blade control decks. With red though, you have access to blood moon. BUG runs little to no countermagic, taps out every turn, and runs zero basics usually. Moon beats their deck.
qftQuote:
Originally Posted by thearchitect
Guys, play Restoration Angel.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect
Re: Young Pyromancer
Unlike Pdingo, I have been testing the card (-1 Fire/Ice, -1 Lavamancer from the Columbus list, slightly different lands). It's a completely different card in this deck than it is in the grixis one. We're really just looking to get 1-2 tokens out of him, at which point we'll probably have bodies to carry our equipment for the rest of the game. He's been pretty effective so far at what I want him to do. That said, I haven't had enough testing to decide if he's worth the slot just yet.
I found Venser to be even more versatile to Resto in the 4cc slot. Being able to reset just about anything and everything is a huge boon for this deck. i've seen Venser do a ton of solid work in Joe Lossett's Miracle deck, so it seems fitting that this control deck also be able to utilize those same tricks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
I think the main reason you want to run red in this list, isn't Bolt or P.Blast, but blood moon. I would def. play some in the board.
Otherwise, I don't see the reason to a basic mountain. (Play another basic island, if no blood moon)
Resto is also not bad. Having a 3/4 flyer you can flash play without tapping out is really nice against a lot of decks. And sometimes you get to do cute things with it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
But also play blood moon.
You can cast Blood Moon on turn 2 or even 1 with Sneak&Show, Imperial Painter etc. but we can't cast it earlier than turn 3. By then they can strip it away with discard. When I was playing esper that was my biggest problem against BUG. By the time I play my answers my hand turns to dust.
I don't like restoration angel, Its way too mana intensive for its intended purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect
I would need at least 7 lands to make it work perfectly.
I think riptide is better in this scenario.
Venser is probably the best.
@Koby,
The basic Mountain has been, hands down, the most debated card in the deck. It was being contested by Riptide Laboratory or the 3rd Waste because it is considered a colorless source in most cases. The reason why I finally decided to include it in the main was mainly because of the application of Pyroblast vs. Wasteland decks. I didn't want to rely on Volcanics alone vs. RUG and Shardless BUG. Having a single source of red mana against DnT is also a big temptation for their Ports so they tend to focus on it more than they should (AKA: they try to keep us off Grim Lavamancer or respond Bolt to a mom activation). Overall, it did not disappoint me because in the end, it is still a very solid choice when building towards a Jace, regardless of if the land produces a 3rd blue or a 2nd white (superfluous).
Regarding the Dust Bowl in your list, I have never liked that card in practice. I would rather play a single Wasteland if it was my only out to nonbasics rather than a single Dust Bowl. You rarely (I personally never) get a second activation out of it, and the first one is very difficult to accomplish. I used to play a Dust Bowl in almost nearly all of my control decks until the point where I realized that I had not used it in over a year in any competitive scenario. However, I can recall numerous occasions where I wish I could destroy a nonbasic land without having to pay 4 mana to do so.
On the topic of Restoration Angel, I have been entertaining that thought for a few weeks now as well. I was initially comparing her to Geist, and rightly so as they have a lot in common. They are both unaffected by common removal like Bolt and Decay. Restoration has more synergy with the rest of our deck simply because she has Flash, and can hold her own against any other critter. Even when compared to Venser, the slot she mostly competes with, I think she has more potential as well. Bouncing permanents or spells can be devastating in very specific scenarios, but usually it feels like I am overpaying for a 2/2 flash body. Let's look at some of the practical applications of Restoration Angel in (my) Lightning Blade:
-Instant removal for most attacking creatures, and some that might even prove problematic. Creatures that come to mind include:
Nimble Mongoose
Delver of Secrets
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Phyrexian Revoker
Geist of Saint Traft
-Additional reach in response to Planeswalkers such as Liliana, Elspeth, and Jace (AKA: Why Bolt is so good in a control shell).
-Complements Clique with flying equipments
-Synergy with every existing creature
-One-time protection from creature removal, notably Abrupt Decay
-Casting Restoration Angel doesn't require you to tap mana during your main phase.
-Immunity from Decay and lone Bolts.
Why play red? The main reason to play red is definitely Bolt and REB, and not Blood Moon. Bolt, StP, and Snap is too much cheap and versatile removal for the format right now. Red Blasts are the best red spells in Legacy and have some very powerful applications against the top tier decks of the format. Those two red cards are essential to consistently retain control over the board until Jace hits the field and degeneracy begins. Bolts and REBs are cancerous while Blood Moon is merely the nail on the coffin.
-Additional reach in response to Planeswalkers such as Liliana, Elspeth, and Jace (AKA: Why Bolt is so good in a control shell). - With the red splash, planeswalkers are usually not a problem at all. I wouldn't worry too much about these cards.
-Casting Restoration Angel doesn't require you to tap mana during your main phase. - Am I missing something? How do you not need to tap?
I certainly worry about a turn 2/3 Liliana bascked by Bolts or Abrupt Decay which snipe every attempt to attack her. I think Liliana is a legitimate threat against this deck in that she alone can pressure our hand size and any deployed creatures. Her ultimate is nasty too.Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
Resto Angel has flash, and can be cast at the end of our opponent's turn...
Oh thats what he meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Restoration angel does not even need its blink ability to be playable. Its a 3/4 over 3cmc flyer that you don't have to tap out for. In the right build, one that only ever taps out mainphase for jace, its just what is needed. And yes in quiet rare situations you can save a clique from a decay, or blink a snapcaster and for value.Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
Not all UWx stoneblade decks are draw go decks but the Red splash lists that look like Queerios or Kobys are. Every card besides Jace, is an instant or does not requiring tapping out (mystic is usually not a turn 2 play for these builds).
That said, Venser is also not bad either (and really shines against combo) but he is not very useful after his ability. He dies to any bolts or opposing grisly bears. Resto is immune to bolt. It Can kill, not just bounce, a brainstorming jace, and profitably block a lot of the creatures mentioned earlier.
Well there's synergy with Karakas, but it's hard to rely on in this deck. I have very often used Jace -1 on each of the blue creatures in my list for added effect. Sometimes, Fateseal is not useful (vs fetch for instance), Brainstorm is locked without a shuffle effect, and we're at near parity on board. Times like these are were I want to -1 Jace and regain another shot with an EtB effect. Even protecting against a Liliana -2 is really good too!
Blade player: "I am having trouble with Liliana, Shardless BUG, and RUG."
Me: "I was able to fix all of those problems with Restoration Angel."
Blade player: "No, that card isn't as good as this other card in a vacuum."
Resto is interesting but the real question is how many to run. A one-of hardly seems redundant enough when compared to Venser, who can at the very least pitch to FoW and has a bounce with offensive uses as well
I see why you have a bit of a problem with the planeswalkers. I just saw your list. I run the 3 grims MD so I never felt any pressure from any planeswalker, except maybe elspeth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
I liked having Lavamancers in the main as well. It made it really hard for opposing Planeswalkers to really stick around for long and of course, he just murders DRS.
That's a very narrow way to interpret the last few posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
Given a limited amount of slots for a 4cc, you can fill those slots with:
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Restoration Angel
Venser, Shaper Savant
If you have room for multiple, then go ahead and test them out.
I think there are at max 2 slots available with the recent drop of Blade lists. I prefer Venser because it's more versatile and can actually Remand spells. Restoration Angel is a solid defensive creature and I want to play it more. My reservation about it is that it has limited use and potentially only a one-shot (cast and does it effect, no rebuy with Karakas). Venser, on the other hand, has more potential synergies and overall objective usefulness. Both deal with Liliana, both can save our own creatures.