Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drude1
Nice report guys.
A few things...
first, looking at your matches, it seems like an early moon in most of your games would have been really really good. I think you guys are under-valuing Blood Moon in some MUs. Blood Moon was an all-star for me at the last open against U/R Delver. Most lists only run 1-2 islands and if you shut off their fetches they can't shuffle or fill their grave as well for their cruises. It's obviously your best card against 3 color delver or stoneforge packages. Yes, the Moon isn't fantastic against reanimator or other heavy artifact mana strategies, but it never was and these match-ups are dealt with via our SB.
You may be right. However, we wanted the firewalkers for UR and cutting off Plateaus wasn't an option because of the WW requirement . Blood Moon got the axe against UR for me. I just didn't see it as much as I would like in the matches where it would really shine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drude1
Second, could you guys expand a little on your choice of kor firewalkers? I guess you guys were all in on cutting Moons in the red match-ups and bringing in the walkers. They don't seem bad, but it seems like you need them in multiples. The fact that they are taking up four slots in your SB suggests you guys were really worried about seeing a lot of burn or UR Delver. I know UR delver is really popular, but in general it doesn't seem like a bad MU for us anyway. I guess if you really don't like tutors then loading up on hate bears isn't a bad strategy. I personally think the tutors are still good though for combo pieces or silver bullets, especially with tops. glad to hear that containment priest was good. I added one to my SB but again with tutors I still want to be able to fetch RiP, etc so will probably still stick with just one. What was your guys' plan against decks with Eldrazi,etc in them? Seems harder to win without a consistent way to answer the Eldrazi triggers and it's harder to win with beat-down/alternative strategies without Jaya.
Neither of us had byes and we firgure we would have to slog through a lot of Burn and UR. We were both concerned about the matchup and had considered using 4 dragons claw. However, Firewalker is amazing against both UR and Burn and in testing it turned out to be far better than claw. Even 1 can extend the game long enough to lock them and allow you to win. Multiples is pretty much game over. For decks with Eldrazi, the plan was to hide behind the bridges and drop a Koth with some blast backup and ride that. I had the additional crypt in the board to keep the dream of comboing alive. Zack (Ringo) didn't seem to thrilled with that plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drude1
Finally, I know that sudden shock is a house against stoneforge/delver strategies, but considering two of Ringo's losses were against tribal decks, wouldn't a couple sweeper effects be better out of the board? I tested sudden shock against elves and it was awful. I'm also just more worried about the tribal MUs than delver ones. Elves and Goblins are both difficult MUs.
Sweepers like pyroclasm could have been fine. However, we were very concerned about the swiftspears. I would be open to trying out sweepers instead though. Goblins wasn't really on our radar and I will admit, I hadn't tested against it at all. With Bridge, Containment Priest, and having Moons shut off early Cradles, I think we may have looked past the Elves match-up a bit. I will admit. this could be a weakness. More testing with Priest would be needed to see if she can have the effect we were shooting for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drude1
Sorry to sound like I'm total digging on you guys, I don't mean to. I will say I do like the idea of a 20th land but I still need the 5 accel pieces as Blood Moon is still a high priority for me. I also like the hedge-mage and can totally get behind that.
This was my thought. With all the white in the SB I went with 3 Petals and 2 SSG. Zack (Ringo) cut the SSG because of the 20th land. It seemed to be fine for him. Like you, I was not ready to drop the 5th piece of acceleration which is why I dropped the 3rd Welder. However, I am still not confident I made the correct decision. Keep in mind we are not saying our list was 100% right. We are just letting you see what we tried out and how it worked out for us. This wasn't something we had tested for months in advance of the GP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drude1
As for cutting a revoker, I am TOTALLY on board with this, and honestly am considering cutting this card entirely. It's okay against Miracles but basically always gets killed. It has some value in other MUs as well (elves, sneak and show, vial decks) but I think I would almost rather have a main deck containment priest against all of these MUs. The priest would also have great affect against dredge and reanimator. It's obviously a nombo with the welder/painter interaction, so I probably wouldn't actually play it main, but I just have not been loving revoker AT ALL.
Revoker seemed weak. I didn't want to see it in many of my matches. Going forward, I wouldn't take up a second slot with it until the meta shifts back. I think the Miracles MU is fine without the second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drude1
Has anyone ever gotten Assemble the Legion into play in a major tourney? I still think it has potential but if I wasn't playing tutors I don't think I would bother.
Nope! I felt I was 1 card short in the SB when going against miracles in the Grinder. Assemble was a last-minute addition. Didn't see miracles Saturday or Sunday though so I was unable to test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drude1
Finally, did anyone actually play with Daretti in New Jersey? How did that go?
He was a last minute cut. He wasn't stellar in play-testing. +ing him for 0 felt awful and I would have rather had Koth every time. I would test him more going forward though. Not writing him off completely after just a week of tests.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drude1
Nice report guys.
A few things...
first, looking at your matches, it seems like an early moon in most of your games would have been really really good. I think you guys are under-valuing Blood Moon in some MUs. Blood Moon was an all-star for me at the last open against U/R Delver. Most lists only run 1-2 islands and if you shut off their fetches they can't shuffle or fill their grave as well for their cruises. It's obviously your best card against 3 color delver or stoneforge packages. Yes, the Moon isn't fantastic against reanimator or other heavy artifact mana strategies, but it never was and these match-ups are dealt with via our SB.
U/R Delver in our testing didn't seem soft to Moon in the slightest. Perhaps that was because fetching the basic Islands was reasonable, but often the deck just burns out and beats you down. I remember several G1s in testing where Blood Moon actually slowed down our own development to the point where you get trapped with too many cards in hand for bridge, or not enough mana to execute any plan fast enough. Durdling with Blood Moon did not seem to be a good plan for them, so I assumed boarding it out would be best. Perhaps I should recheck this assumption. However, based on that assumption, U/R Delver was nigh unwinnable with Dragon's Claws, COP:Red etc. in testing against anyone who showed respect to Painter's Servant and tried to remove it, typically resulting in dying after some beatdown, and cruise into burn and more creatures.
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Second, could you guys expand a little on your choice of kor firewalkers? I guess you guys were all in on cutting Moons in the red match-ups and bringing in the walkers. They don't seem bad, but it seems like you need them in multiples. The fact that they are taking up four slots in your SB suggests you guys were really worried about seeing a lot of burn or UR Delver. I know UR delver is really popular, but in general it doesn't seem like a bad MU for us anyway.
Firewalker is a Dragon's Claw that can block and kill every creature in U/R except Delver. The first one usually either comes down t1 or t2 if under pressure, and then stabilizes and stems the bleeding, while REB/Pyro/Ratchet Bomb/EE deal with Delver, and Sudden Shock/Ratchet Bomb/EE deals with Pyromancer. Your own red spells, combined with the blocking, usually results in gaining a ton of life for the next few turns, until you either can combo, find more Firewalkers and them down once you have control, or find Ensnaring Bridge and sit back and gain a ton of life until you want to attack with the Firewalkers. The combo, in my experience, has been really hard to execute against this deck, given all the burn and removal, so having a viable beatdown plan is something that Firewalker brings to the table. One KF early is usually enough on its own, barring exceptionally creature heavy hands, like double/triple delver of secrets. EDIT: Also, of note, because this came up a couple of times, but when on the aggro plan, you can call red with Painter and sneak Firewalkers through flipped Delver. I did this in two games for the win in NJ. Also, be wary of blocking into Skullcrack against Burn, this is one of the few ways they can remove KF. With that said, not really sure you can play around that all that often.
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I guess if you really don't like tutors then loading up on hate bears isn't a bad strategy. I personally think the tutors are still good though for combo pieces or silver bullets, especially with tops. glad to hear that containment priest was good. I added one to my SB but again with tutors I still want to be able to fetch RiP, etc so will probably still stick with just one. What was your guys' plan against decks with Eldrazi,etc in them? Seems harder to win without a consistent way to answer the Eldrazi triggers and it's harder to win with beat-down/alternative strategies without Jaya.
The Eldrazi plan was to cast Priest, and find Bridge, and beat them down with dorks or perhaps getting Koth. Assemble the Legion is probably fine here too. While it's true that Jaya is great against Sneak, Priest seems faster and actually stops the problematic cards from seeing play. It's totally possible that one of the slots in the board should be the 4th Ensnaring Bridge, if this is the plan. There's also a singleton Tormod's Crypt, if for some reason you get stalled out on attacking and can't find Koth, i.e. Griselbrand in play but Revoker'd and Containment Priest etc. if you have to combo.
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Finally, I know that sudden shock is a house against stoneforge/delver strategies, but considering two of Ringo's losses were against tribal decks, wouldn't a couple sweeper effects be better out of the board? I tested sudden shock against elves and it was awful. I'm also just more worried about the tribal MUs than delver ones. Elves and Goblins are both difficult MUs.
I added an EE thinking the same thing on Day 2 EDIT: SSS, my 2nd day at the GP, did not Day 2 in the main event, haha. Didn't really get to try it out much though. The elves matchup in the GP was a total blowout, the guy had it all and killed me on turn 2 in both games, including G2 AD mid glimpse combo on Containment Priest, into Natural Order. This match up needs more testing though. I think Priest is good at stopping their setup and Arbors, but maybe is more valuable when in response to Natural Order. That is not how I played it Game 2 though. As for Sudden Shock, I like 2 MD and 1 in the board, with 2 "sweepers" in Ratchet Bomb and Engineered Explosives. I considered running Bloodfire Dwarf, but I think the card is too slow, probably. Maybe 2 Pyroclasm is just the way to go, though. In any case, I wouldn't cut Sudden Shock. As I mentioned a page or two ago, I think the value of unconditionally removing its target is too important in this deck, where you can get so quickly overrun and tempoed out.
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Sorry to sound like I'm total digging on you guys, I don't mean to. I will say I do like the idea of a 20th land but I still need the 5 accel pieces as Blood Moon is still a high priority for me. I also like the hedge-mage and can totally get behind that.
No, thank you for responding and having some interest in it! We're posting to discuss it and pick it apart, and hopefully make it better. It's entirely likely this build is warped to a perceived metagame that may have already shifted, but hopefully it's an interesting experiment in how far you can take the prison strategy and white splash into the SB. If U/R Delver etc. continues to be strong, then maybe this shell could worthy of some further fine-tuning and testing from the community, or perhaps it's just awful (though I really think it's actually quite good.) If nothing else, at least it was useful in determining that Containment Priest is absolutely bonkers good for a lot of our traditionally terrible combo matchups. Hedge-mage was absolutely insane for me, and never worse than Manic Vandal. The lack of a "may" on MV has been an issue a few times in the past for me. Usually cards like Hedge-Mage don't come down that early, and so it's pretty easy to always have 2 Mountains or 2 Plateau's by then if you haven't Blood Mooned.
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As for cutting a revoker, I am TOTALLY on board with this, and honestly am considering cutting this card entirely. It's okay against Miracles but basically always gets killed. It has some value in other MUs as well (elves, sneak and show, vial decks) but I think I would almost rather have a main deck containment priest against all of these MUs. The priest would also have great affect against dredge and reanimator. It's obviously a nombo with the welder/painter interaction, so I probably wouldn't actually play it main, but I just have not been loving revoker AT ALL.
I would consider this, but the card is really flexible, and it has saved me against Jitte by recruiting it so many times. I don't know if I can part with it entirely, haha.
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Has anyone ever gotten Assemble the Legion into play in a major tourney? I still think it has potential but if I wasn't playing tutors I don't think I would bother.
Finally, did anyone actually play with Daretti in New Jersey? How did that go?
Cast Assemble against Stoneblade, after G1 I thought he was on Miracles (Early Moon, basic lands, fast combo). Card did not do well there, but wasn't really intended for that matchup. I never saw a Daretti in testing that I didn't wish was Koth or SDT or Goblin Welder instead, and so much of the gameplan against the field involved Ensnaring Bridge that Daretti never seemed to do anything but tick up and not draw any cards. Just my impression though, I'd also be eager to hear people's thoughts on him.
I think some questions for tuning the Firewalker list going forward are:
2 or 3 Containment Priest? 2-4 Kor Firewalker? 3-4 Imperial Recruiter? 1 Ethersworn Canonist? These all seem inherently connected, bearing in mind they have to come into play fast to be good.
1 Assemble the Legion? Is this better against Miracles than EE? Than 2nd Koth? What other matchups is this good against?
4th Ensnaring Bridge? If we want it so often, should we be able to go to 4 after board? What about SBing Enlightened Tutors?
Pyroclasm and/or EE or Ratchet Bomb?
And also, if anyone feels like looking into some hybrid with the shortcake Enlightened Tutor lists, I'd love to hear what you come up with. I think a semi-transformational SB with them would maybe be worth looking at.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I think one thing that both Zack and I didn't really touch on is our progression from where we were both at to how we met in the middle with very similar lists. My progression went like this:
I have been a fan of the Rw Shortcake list with E. Tutor to have a flexible SB and some extra utility in G1. After testing online against UR delver and hearing everyone talk about how big UR Delver would be, I grew concerned and tried Warmth in the SB. Even with Warmth and E. Tutor to get it, I felt too slow against Burn and UR. Next, I blindly took Zack's suggestion to add the 4 Dragons claws. At this point, I dropped E. Tutor because I felt like it lost a lot of its utility with our SB having 4 slots in the SB dedicated to just two MUs. At this point my white splash was for containment priest and I had gone to the more mono-red SB with Tormod's Crypt. I think it was Wednesday when we did some extensive testing with the match-up and realized that Claw wasn't doing enough. Zack was sitting by himself goldfishing for at least an hour trying to figure out if WW was possible in the deck. It turns out that most of the time, it worked out well. This is the point where we added in the Firewalkers which made E. Tutor nearly useless.
Zack came from the opposite end: He started with a Mono Red list and eventually move to the heavier white splash for priests and firewalkers.
I did miss the utility the E. Tutor provides in SB games, but I am happy I made the switch for the weekend. The deck still ran well and I never felt helpless. Hopefully this clears up any questions you may have regarding our choices for the weekend.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Blood moon is T1 or bust against U/R delver. Game one, if you're lucky, they'll grab a volcanic and you can shut them off of blue T2. Games 2 and 3 they will grab their island and it's a dead card, they can easily win on one blue source. Their most important card in the matchup, bolt, is still on either way. It is a weak card in an already tough matchup.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pinkfrosting
Blood moon is T1 or bust against U/R delver. Game one, if you're lucky, they'll grab a volcanic and you can shut them off of blue T2. Games 2 and 3 they will grab their island and it's a dead card, they can easily win on one blue source. Their most important card in the matchup, bolt, is still on either way. It is a weak card in an already tough matchup.
Totally disagree. Access to only one blue a turn can make a big difference. You may also be able to blow their island up with a blast. Again, not being able to shuffle or fill up the grave with fetches is also a big deal. I played against u/r delver four times at SCG Minneapolis and won every match on the back of blood moon. Don't get me wrong, I would definitely cut the magus and maybe 1 moon in this MU, but it's still good.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Although I didnt play in the gp, I've spent all day writing and rewriting lists and theorizing over the current direction to take the deck. An important thing I realized that will help everyone come up with good lists is to ask yourself 'what cards in the main/board will I play no matter what' this will help you make stronger flex decisions based on what metagame you expect and how to adjust to a playstyle.
For example, here is my 'set in stone'
19 land (normal shortcake configuration)
4 recruiter
4 painter
2 welder
1 magus
1 jaya
2 ssg
4 stone
4 moon
4 pyro
2 reb
2 petal
2 tutor
2 top
1 bridge
Another fast mana either petal or ssg
Another search either top or tutor
That leaves 4 flex slots. For the longest time these have been welder 3, revokers 1,2 and bridge 2 because of sneak attack, liliana, and goyf.
After my thinking and whatnot, the field is all blue tempo and controllish lists without goyf or liliana. That makes revoker an easy cut(as some of you have already picked up on). I'm going to make mine much faster and just put pressure from the start before delve cards can maximize their value. I'm making my flex a daretti, welder, blast 7, and ee to fully hate blue game 1. And making the mana and search the 3rd petal and etutor. The sideboard kind of builds itself from there.
I do like the dwarf mage guy since fetching plateaus vs miracles doesn't effect anything, so good find on that. I just wanted to post this as food for thought going forward.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Is your sideboard changing substantially? I'm pretty familiar with the list, and model your maindeck numbers in my painter list pretty closely, so I imagine what comes out of the MD for matchups would be relatively close. Is your experience with U/R as negative as it seemed to us before board (borderline unwinnable)?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Well I did quite horribly at GPNJ I wont bother writing up a report, but i will point out some key things i noticed throughout all 9 rounds that i played.
I finished 3-5-1 (Drew against Pod Nic Fit)
Daretti- He is very strong being able to weld and loot is quite good. Also i was able to Ult him once over the weekend and it did amazing work with Welder and Top.
Assemble the Legion- I landed this against Miracles and True-Blade. And it was a blowout as they had no real answers to deal with it. Miracles attempted to Councils Judgement it but i had Painter on blue and was able to counter
Revoker- I found myself wanting a 2nd one all day as i was stuck in a draw bracket after the first round.
Koth- I found myself bringing him in more then i have in the past
Bridge- Only needed it in one round and that deck was so out of left field it didnt matter (GB Devotion, Main deck Abrupt Decay t2 on my grindstone into Surgical extraction locked me out of the game and 4 SB Golgari Charms)
Welder- I think two in the Maindeck seem to be fine for the moment. The third was just one too many i feel.
Ratchet Bomb - An absolute must against UR delver unless you have EE then you dont need it. But one of the two is necessary in the current meta.
Moon/Magus- Neither were Great all weekend but that has to do with the Meta.
Jaya- Still a House if you land her and can untap with her.
As far as why i had so many losses I played only against 3 normal meta decks all day the other decks were just not normal things to see. I dont feel i made any real misplays unless you consider being aggressive with keeps as a misplay then hat is what i am guilty of.
Rd1 Nic-Fit Draw
Rd2 True-Blade Win
RD3 UR Delver Loss
RD4 GB Devotion Loss
RD5 Mud Loss (not the normal List killed me with Triskellion)
Rd6 Miracles Win
Rd7 I cant Remember and I cant find my Notes
Rd8 Miracles Loss
Rd9 True-Blade Win
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I'll probably post more on my mediocre showing at the GP later but I wanted to weigh in on Daretti. Every time the card has resolved I've won the game except for twice. It's been wonderful to get rid of extra lands, blood moons, etc, I used it to get through a chalice of the void. I love the card.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
UR Delver is a deck that can run Blood Moon so I side my moons out but I'll keep Magus in since he can be a chump blocker or something.
Side note: Containment priest really pisses me off. It's funny how when I deal with it in Reanimator I don't mind much since I can go faster than the player. Yet....I get very annoying when I play painter and my opponent resolves their priest.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I don't want to give anything away... but you guys should ask Zack (Ringo) about 3 very special purchases he made this weekend. They made me VERY jealous.
Maybe if we are lucky he will post pictures of them!
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cab0747
I don't want to give anything away... but you guys should ask Zack (Ringo) about 3 very special purchases he made this weekend. They made me VERY jealous.
Maybe if we are lucky he will post pictures of them!
I'll guess one of three things:
Beta plateaus
Fbb plateaus
Summer mountains
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
So didn't have the greatest time at the gp.
Went 4-2-1 before the drop.
Wins against punishing jund, scapewish, burn, turbo depths.
Lost rounds against nic fit, show and tell.
Drew against uwr (possibly counter top) control.
In both the main event and SSS main board spellskite was a house against burn as well as helping protect a few key creatures for timely swords draws by death and taxes in super Sunday.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sleight
In both the main event and SSS main board spellskite was a house against burn as well as helping protect a few key creatures for timely swords draws by death and taxes in super Sunday.
This has been my experience as well. I decided to go back to Mono-R recently. I didn't play in the GP but before I found out that I couldn't go, I played in a GPT which I top 8ed, and in that trial 2x main Spellskite did wonders for me, I also ran 3x pyrokinesis in the side to deal with U/R delver, and tribal decks, and that combo took down my match against U/R delver. Spellskite does a good impression of a wall. He even drew a solo Pyrokinesis from my opponent in game 3...
That said I'm not exactly sure where this deck should be right now... but I am planning to play in SCG Open DC in January so I'll be testing some stuff out before then.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
What do you think of this card in our SB? Nyx-Fleece Ram
It can be used against aggro deck (great blocker) and helps somewhat against burn decks. Can be tutored, can be recruited.
As for the current direction of the deck. I agree with most everything said here. Blood moon is still effective. But its no longer superb esp in the current meta where many decks also have it in their sideboard. I am almost incline to reduce it to 2 or 3 and have the balance in the SB. I am also incline to only have 1 revoker. Not sure if it stays in the SB or main though.
I am also deciding to play with 3 or 4 tutors and adding cards like RIP/Oblivion ring/EE/Rachet Bomb in the main as a sort of catch all. Although Tutor is card disadvantage, the card you get and cast successfully should be able to hose the deck you are facing. The difficult part is deciding what to cut to have all these in without diluting the painter strategy.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
hi.
Kapn spoke about a dwarf / mage creature... does someone know what he's speaking about ? what's this mysterious card ?
by the way, I still have problems against the dark dephts deck. I know that moon or bridge are good cards that kill him, but post side he can side-in around 12 cards - pyroclasm, discard, ancient grudge, ratchet bomb, REB... So it's really hard. IHe can destroy nearly a card per turn on my board.
Do you have ideas to fight against that ?
thanks
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bonk
hi.
Kapn spoke about a dwarf / mage creature... does someone know what he's speaking about ? what's this mysterious card ?
thanks
Duergar Hedge-Mage.
Also, yes! Picked up 3 FBB French Plateaus for super cheap at the GP, along with stuff like Japanese Goblin Welders, Korean Grindstones, and Ensnaring Bridge. Most of my deck is now foreign non-foil (I hate foils) of the oldest edition of a card available. Still have to get off these stupid Judge Foil Imperial Recruiters though, but I suspect a possible reprint in the next Khans block, since the flavor will never be more appropriate and the set is rumored to be mono colored. I'll post a picture sometime, if anyone else wants me to, but I don't want to clog up the thread with non-game related bullshit too much.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bonk
hi.
by the way, I still have problems against the dark dephts deck. I know that moon or bridge are good cards that kill him, but post side he can side-in around 12 cards - pyroclasm, discard, ancient grudge, ratchet bomb, REB... So it's really hard. IHe can destroy nearly a card per turn on my board.
Do you have ideas to fight against that ?
thanks
Sounds like he's playing some version of Jund Depths, not Lands/Loam. If it were Lands, your follow up to Blood Moon should usually be something like Phyrexian Revoker naming Mox Diamond. Does he run Punishing Fire? In either case, grave hate like Tormod's Crypt is good here too, though Blood Moon alone usually shuts off Punishing Fire/Life from the Loam by making Burnwillows a Mountain.
Against all that removal and discard, my advice for comboing off after Moon and Bridge is that his discard will be a lot harder to cast, and usually not able to hit BB for Hymn. In this scenario, hold Grindstone and Painter until you have at least 6 mana so that you can play them all the same turn and combo. This shuts him off most things removal-wise except Lightning Bolt. If you know you have the set up coming, you could also cast Goblin Welder the turn before to draw removal, or have insurance against it. Against Ratchet Bomb, you only really care if it's set to 2 to remove Painter in the combo, so again, Goblin Welder is good.
Also, after a Moon, even if he destroys a lot of your board somehow, you should just play non-combo creatures to the board a couple at a time and attack him. You should be faster than his digging out of it, as long as you're not getting 2 for 1ed every single time. You'll also be putting pressure on his removal spells, so when it comes time to try to combo, in theory he should be pretty lacking in removal.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
hello ringo. thanks for answering
his version isn't a loam version. it's a combo version, the one from prague eternal, the one from the experimental deck section. it's very fast. So its really hard after side cause of all his hate.
