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we look forward to that!
Is it mono-b or B/G or even, B/W? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
B/w is definitely my favorite variant of pox. Been on and off playing it for a long time. I hope that it is that variant so I can get a look at another person's perspective.
What does your B/W list look like? I have seen some Modern BW Pox lists I like, wondering what you play in a Legacy version.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
Deck: pox b/w (61)Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
// Lands
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Karakas
3 Marsh Flats
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
// Creatures
2 Nether Spirit
3 Tombstalker
// Spells
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Mox Diamond
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Vindicate
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Vindicate
I have been playing this one on and off for about 2.5 years now. List hasn't changed much as many of the cards are powerful in their own right.
Deck: pox blade (60)
// Lands
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Scrubland
3 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
// Creatures
// Spells
2 Bitterblossom
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
1 Nether Void
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Vindicate
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
This was an interesting idea I had along the way and it proved relatively strong, feels like it is missing something though. Tested well, but not great.
A blade variant should focus on the best of white, which at this time is Thalia or SFM.
I have considered what one can do with Aether vial in pox and this is a nice direction.
Thalia is the last card I want to play against let alone run in a pox build.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Sfm is fine but in pox the early turns of disruption are so important I don't like the idea of investing turns 2 and 3 on getting a batterskull into play
I agree Thalia is not were you want to be in a deck with no creatures. Stoneforge Mystic could slot in for the second Umezawa Jitte or could be in the sideboard with a batterskull for match-ups were you want to have a faster way to win and/or batterskull lifegain. It would serve a similar function to the Enlightened Tutors (I love the E-Tutor package btw, that was always my favorite Miracles build too)Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
A single Nether Spirit may be a better card for you, endless blocker and another card you can profitably discard besides Lingering Souls.
I have yet to test the second build with the tops because I had the jitte in there. But I will be sleeving pox back up in the coming weeks to see where the deck stands as far as my preference in this meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Again on sfm I am really not a fan of taking those early turns to set up a batterskull. Especially since the only deck I would want it for is vs burn and I already have e tutor plus circle of pro red for that. I think I need to dust off my most since all my threats fly
Sorry for the delay, school is hell.
Like I said, we worked on this list for a long time, and through meta changes. He changed it for the DTT meta, but then hasn't played since August. This is a rough list, since I don't have the exact version handy.
Pox
2 Nether Void
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Sylvan Library
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Mox Diamond
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Swamp
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Bayou
Sideboard
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Choke
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Ensnaring Bridge
This is the last list I have on my email record, so it's gone through revisions since then, but the basic theme is the same. BG Void Pox, and obviously the main card that likely throws everyone off is Sylvan Library. Many times with Pox, you're just topdecking into nothing. You can argue Top is a viable replacement, but you need actual cards to beat your opponents. Many times you have a bunch of life sitting around, and those extra cards can actually seal games.
I think one version of another did have two cursed scroll main, as well. Land base likely needs more basic swamps, likely at the cost of an urborg.
-Matt
So your win condition is just 4 factory main, or making them scoop? I would have to trust your judgment as I've never played a similar list, but that seems super loose. Void isn't going to stop decay from killing liliana or wasteland from killing factory, so how do you actually beat an opponent?Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
There were also 2 Scroll in the lists we were testing later.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
And yes, that was the win condition. Grind the hell out of the them. Sure, Decay does kill Liliana, but ideally you've blown up most of their lands and they've got nothing left. Recall you have Crucibles as well to keep recurring Factories, you worry more about STP.
-Matt
Even then you can play around this if you have Wasteland, Crucible and Factories. Even slower, but still gets the work done.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
You don't have to play Stoneforge Mystic in the first 2-3 turns, you can sequence your spells in what ever order best fits the situationQuote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
It is the same mana you'd use to cast bitterblossom and jitte but it only costs you one card, and it gives you the freedom to play batterskull if you want. I don't think you want to play 4 SFM but 2-3 seems reasonable.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=69791Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
My Legacy Top 8 list from 2 years ago, only win conditions are 3 Bloodghast, 3 Mishra's Factory, Concession(Scoop). Guess which one is my favorite and happened most often :)
I actually liked this build a lot more than my current builds with dark depths but I think the dark depths win is a necessary evil to win games in time.
Concession ???
I don't think it isn't possible to win with that list, it is certainly aggressive in mana denial. I do like the list a lot. I have just found that counter magic and tempo plays can make it really difficult to actually set up your key spells and cantrips plus card selection could make it tough. I missed at first that you are black green so perhaps you having decay can also make a huge difference.
-jedelstein
In regards to your top 8 loam pox list, you have entomb and loam which really find your threats quickly when you are ready to switch gears. So it is quite a different scenario, but you certainly run more threats and they are tutorable and more recurrable.
I have seen black white lists with gatekeeper, sfm and Bob before. I have also seen them with only sfm and bob. Maybe I will exchange for bitterblossom and test that out with 1 skull and 1 jitte. My concern is waiting to drop sfm and having to discard to smallpox or liliana while I am disrupting early in the game. Or casting him and having to tick up liliana with batterskull in hand. That is my personal issue with sfm. But I could be completely incorrect and just need to adjust my play style a bit.
I agree there are more way to find threats but in the end only have 6.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
Discarding SFM is unfortunately going to happen sometimes. Life from Loam helps me keep cards in my hand for longer but you don't have that luxury. I think having more things to profitably discard may help, which was my first suggestion to add a nether spirit. I actually am not sure you need SFM or as I suggested before you could play it in the sideboard similar to your enlightened tutor package. It is a powerful card so it can never be that bad to play him.
-Hardcore: Concession, as in Concede to, or scoop.
volrath stronghold, but then you really should go BWG.
He has Crucible so doesn't need to add green.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
I'd almost rather add blue for Academy Ruins, it allows bringing back equipment but also brings back Engineered Explosives and Pithing Needles.
Once you dive into Esper, I feel like it'd probably be better to just run a Landstill deck instead. Standstill is a better card advantage engine in a blue deck and then you can run reactive cards like Force of Will. I just believe three colors is too many for a Pox deck and the fragility of three color manabases can be exploited too easily when you're sacrificing your own lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein