I would have thought that Stony Silence was unrecoverable for MUD! You must have really been in a spot to not get any aggro out after that. Thanks for the report.
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I would have thought that Stony Silence was unrecoverable for MUD! You must have really been in a spot to not get any aggro out after that. Thanks for the report.
I felt the report was weak, seeing as it had very few details: only describing the victories, and excusing the losses as bullshit. LoL.Quote:
Thanks for the report.
That aside, i feel like the deck should be maxing out on the mangara/thalia slots... The card I look at to do this is flickerwisp. The card is weak without vial; yes it holds equipment, but so does anything with flying. The only real uses of flickerwisp are protecting creatures/renaming revokers/mangara combo... I would rather increase redundancy for what, I feel, is the 'core' of the deck.
Coming from the list in the report:
-4 flickerwisp
+1 thalia
+1 mangara
+1 judge's familiar
+1 revoker
The legends are removal magnets, and revokers/familiars help tempo.
I'd argue the Flickerwisps are redundancy. They'll vial in to bounce a Thalia or Mangara, but better than Karakas does. Like Mangara, they're another way to get stuff out of the way. Like Mom, they'll let you attack around a creature (by removing for a turn). Its versatile, and its probably the best card in the deck.
But if you get in anything near a representative sample of games without it, I'm keen to hear how it goes.
If I had a nickel for every player who thinks Flickerwisp is not pulling its weight just by looking at it, I would, well...have a pocket full of nickels at least. I am not pointing a finger at you Freakaccident, but it is true that I have come to view people who do not like Flickerwisp as either inexperienced with it or lacking in imagination or something. Defending its inclusion has become something of a joke to successful D&T pilots. Those of us who use it usually feel that it is the perfect card for the deck. Even without an active Vial, it does so damned many things. I mean, you just about never see good players cutting even one of them from their lists. There must be a reason. My opponents who feel the business end of it seem to feel that I got lucky to have the perfect [narrow] card in a niche situation. Yeah, but after the umpteenth perfect niche situation in a row you eventually have to admit that it is actually quite broadly effective in this deck. Not absurdly powerful like Delver, but exactly what this deck needs.
My favorite use of Flickerwisp is taxing lands at my EOT to remove on of their sources. Also, resetting O-ring to Legend rule Jaces. Also, resetting Jaces. Also, (etc)
I decided to dust this deck off after a while and played some matches against my friend, who was playing miracles.
The results were not great. I ended up losing 4 games in a row and feeling like terminus just completely outclassed everything I could muster. Aside from slowing him down a little bit using Thalia and ports / wastelands, it didn't feel like there was much else I could do. Mangara never showed up in any of those games, and we obviously don't have brainstorm power to make him more consistent.
Anyone have any advice for this match up? What are some good sideboard choices versus miracles?
U/W miracles is actually, in my experience, a good match-up for death and taxes if you know how to play it. The key against that deck is to revoke his Sensei's divining top. Side in pithing needle if you have it and absolutely run x4 revokers (second target is Jace, but top has absolute priority unless there's a jace on the board). Once the top is revoked, terminus becomes much less of a threat. The secret against it is not to overextend: as long as you are applying some pressure, keep your creatures in hand rather than trying to go for a fast finish: you'll recover much better from a sweep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinwei
Your best cards against miracles are: Revoker, Aether Vial, Thalia & Mangara (even better with Karakas and Vial backup), Wasteland & Rishadan Port (cut white mana when you can), and Flickerwisp. Swords to plowshares are mostly useless and Serra Avengers and Batterskull don't really shine. Side them out for more Phyrexian revokers or Pithing Needle, Judge's familiars, SoLaS and Oblivion Ring(s).
Hope this helps
New to the forum, first off, so this is my first post on this thread.
I just wanted to mention that I've been testing out, rather than Judge's Familiar, Dryad Militants in my main. So far they've proven to be a fairly significant card in my personal opinion, especially since they shut off Cabal Therapy flashbacks against Dredge and much more importantly, Nic Fit, which I've been discovering is a fairly hard matchup, especially with the slow emergence of the Scapewish variant. In my local meta, I've been loving them, and at yesterday's NELC, I wasn't too disappointed in drawing them, nor did I ever find myself saying "Man, I wish I would have swapped these for Familiar today."
Just my thoughts on that.
I hear ya, but I just think that Judge's Familiar has more pertinent matchups in the meta I've been playing in: RUG Delver and combo specifically. I'd want Dryad Militants in my board, not in the main. And the trouble with that is that Rest in Peace is much much better at accomplishing what it needs to than Militants, enough so that I don't mind that it can't be Vialed in, costs an extra mana, and can't carry an equipment or attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooksy01
I think in the end both Familiar and Militant are valid maindeck one drops that this deck has needed for a while. In my meta, I have a fair bit of Nic-Fit and dredge to deal with, so for me, I've been making the Militant call. That being said, I have no problems switching it up depending on the meta.
Agreed. If storm decks and Canadian are popular in a meta, then familiar is probably better. However, most storm decjs nowadays rely on their yard to loop with ill gotten gains and past in flames, so either is quite valid, imo. I will say this about militant :it beats for 2 consistently without dying to be used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooksy01
Thoughts on Orim's Chant/Silence as a way to de facto beat Miracles and improve the Storm matchups?
I am not inclined to make any major adjustments to fight Miracles frankly. I am well above fifty percent facing that deck as things are. The uwr version is a bit easier than the uw one as long as nobody starts including stuff like Pyroclasm in the side.
I am similarly unenthusiastic about including extra storm hate. Dread of Night is effective at handling Thalia but not Canonists or Revokers. I do pretty well in this one also, especially now with Familiars.
Storm has been shifting towards Abrupt Decay rather than rely on Dread of Night, since as you said, it can only kill Thalia/Mom in singular. Since they are shifting towards answers that address permanents and boarding out discard, Silence effects turns the tables on them. It also gives you an out to turn 1-2 combo plays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Yes. I have faced that! I got hammered too. Of course the guy cast ALL FOUR Abrupt Decays by turn six or something. Me, with a good, but mortal hand ran out of disruption by then and he somehow still drew into the necessary gas to go off without difficulty. I was positively flummoxed. But if those had been Dread off Night I would have been just as dead. Let me be clear on this. Dread of Night is viciously effective against D&T for that deck, especially if they get two of them. It costs 1, can be cast preemptively on turn 1, kills all kinds if stuff all at once, and sticks around to fuck you some more. It is a true hoser.
By contrast, a two-mana, two color spell that goes 1-for-1 is hardly something I am going to alter my plan over. True, they can cast it EOT and go off, but I certainly expect no less from a good pilot. It can't be countered by spells or abilities, but it can be countered by Mother of Runes' protection. I would say that Abrupt Decay weakens their matchup considerably against D&T.
After weeks of playing Combo, I dusted off D&T for the local. 34 players turned out - biggest Legacy tournament ever in Brisbane, Queensland!
Maindeck (60)
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
8 Plains
4 Aether Vial
4 Mother of Runes
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Flickerwisp
4 Mangara of Corondor
1 Batterskull
Sideboard (15)
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
1 Honor of the Pure
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Cataclysm
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Round 1 - Elves - Win 2-0
Jitte came down on Turn 3 in the 1st game and Turn 3 in the 2nd game. Thalia and Serra Avenger suited up and mowed down the hordes.
Board: -4 Mangara of Corondor +1 Umezawa's Jitte +1 Cataclysm +1 Honor of the Pure +1 Oblivion Ring
Round 2 - UR Delver - Win 2-0
In Game 1 he piled on the pressure with a flipped Delver and 2 Goblin Guides. I dropped to 12 quickly, but had my Turn 1 Aether Vial charged up to three counters and a Mother of Runes on the board. Flickerwisp reset Delver and blocked a Goblin Guide, Mother gave it protection, and then Stoneforge Mystic found Batterskull and Jitte for the win.
In Game 2 he kept a very burn heavy hand. Eventually I drew out his burn and landed a Stoneforge Mystic for Batterskull, and a subsequent Serra Avenger picked up a Jitte to end things quickly.
Board: -2 Mangara of Corondor -4 Phyrexian Revoker +1 Umezawa's Jitte +1 Cataclysm +1 Honor of the Pure +2 Oblivion Ring +1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Round 3 - BGW Pox - Win 2-0
We trade resources back and forth and get into topdeck mode. Except he's topdecking threats and I'm topdecking land and Aether Vials. Deathrite Shaman and Liliana of the Veil team up with Mishra's Factory to significantly dent my life total, but I rip a Thalia and Stoneforge Mystic in quick succession, surprise the Mishra's Factory with Thalia off Vial and Stoneforge up a Batterskull. Then I start drawing gas and he starts drawing lands, and I take a close game.
In the second game I Pithing Needle a Deathrite Shaman and Revoker a Liliana. He attempts to Swords my Revoker and I tank, eventually deciding to Vial in Flickerwisp in response to the Swords to flicker his Liliana so I can fly over and kill it next turn (I figured if I save the Revoker he gets the Liliana activation, which was his plan). He's taken completely off guard by this play, and I am helped by a topdecked Stoneforge Mystic the next turn. Batterskull makes the party a short one.
As an aside, Deathrite Shaman is nuts. Nuts, nuts, totally nuts. Such a good card.
Board: -4 Mangara of Corondor, -4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, +2 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Rest in Peace, +1 Elspeth, Knight Errant, +1 Pithing Needle, +2 Oblivion Ring, +1 Umezawa's Jitte
Round 4 - Black MUD - Win 2-0
He plays an Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Chalice for 1. I waste his Ancient Tomb. He plays a Swamp and doesn't hit a land for the rest of the game. Thalia and Jitte make sure he doesn't get too many more turns to draw into it.
In Game 2 he explodes with Turn 1 Ancient Tomb, Grim Monolith, Metalworker, which I calmly Swords to Plowshares. This sets him back a lot and allows me to establish board position with Revoker naming Metalworker, Batterskull and Jitte. Stoneforge Mystics bravely sacrifice themselves in front of a rampaging Wurmcoil Engine and Batterskull suits up with the Jitte to make it a lifegain race. However, it swings my way when I runner-runner two Serra Avengers and start flying over with Jitte. He pulls the trigger with Kuldotha Forgemaster only to find that he sideboarded out his Platinum Angel (I had 4 Jitte counters to kill it in response to the Lightning Greaves equip) and gets Wurmcoil instead, but he's still losing the race badly. I kill a Metalworker with Jitte and flicker out my Revoker and in response he Forgemasters for another Metalworker. I have lethal on the board and so when Revoker comes back I name Lightning Greaves, knowing he needs to Forgemaster the next turn for the win and he can't do it if it doesn't have haste.
Board: -4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben -2 Mangara of Corondor +2 Oblivion Ring +1 Pithing Needle +1 Elspeth, Knight Errant +1 Cataclysm +1 Phyrexian Metamorph
I don't drop a game and end up on 12 points after 4 rounds and in equal first place, scooping $55 in store credit.
I'm sure some of my plays weren't optimal, and it makes me sad that I haven't played the deck more. I vow that I will play with it until I don't make the money!
Thoughts: I didn't sideboard E-Tutors at all... maybe they should go.
How does this deck fare against combo (i.e. Storm, Charbelcher, High Tide, Omniscience, Reanimator, Dredge . . . anything that can win explosively turn 1 or turn 2), UW Stoneblade/Miracles, and RUG Delver? Matchups in general?
Reason for asking? I just like the Mango Crackers combo, but I've already dedicated some time in building my Nic Fit list, so I don't want to build another deck that has the same great matchups and the same terribad matchups, ya'know?
Rug delver is not even a matchup for us. Just play rest in peace, cruise to victory. Combo is somewhat harder for us. But easier than nic fit. Also, nic fit is a bad matchup for us. So if you want to kill us, play nic fit.
So I am thinking of picking Legacy back up, and as per usual the deck I am thinking of utilizing is Death and Taxes. I would be posting over on MTGSalvation about this, if I hadn't gotten banned for a stupid reason. But I am wondering if Death and Taxes is still viable and effective in the current meta or if I should instead be considering some other deck.
Really depends on your local meta... if you play against a lot of Omnitell/Storm/High Tide, it's a terrible decision. Goblins, Maverick, Blade Control, great decision. UWx Miracles, get ready for a grind.Quote:
Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin