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Tutorable and easily castable. Great for the burn match up, hilarious vs shardless when they have deathrite or a suspended ancestral. Vs burn when they suspend a rift bolt is quite hilarious. The fact he is a 7/8 is respectable as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by caprino
Hello to everybody here (-: Long time i didnt play Legacy, cause began to play a lot duel commander
I decided to play legacy first time after GP Lille
Thoght a lot and test a lot Warping Wail in monoG post. Didnt understand, what problems does this card solve in monoG post. So.I changed in my List from GP only new eldrazi
Main:
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 vesuva
6 forest
2 fetchlands
3 maze
1 dark depth
1 thespian stage
1 bojuka
1 taber
1 chasm
1 karakas
1 eye
1 emrakul
1 new kozilek
1 new ulamog
2 all is dust
2 Ugin
3 needle
3 candelabra
3 top
4 map
4 stirrings
4 crop
1 Exploration
2 Explore
Side:
1 trini
4 blue trap
4 sphere
2 surgical
1 oblivion stone
3 Krosan Grips
2-1 against Miracles
2-1 against bug Delver
2-0 against Lands
2-1 against ANT
i think that the deck is vey solid right now. I didnt have much time to test vs new eldrazi decks, but against other metagame the deck in my opinion is good
Side in and side out Vs miracle, bug, delver deck, ant, d&t.. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by drude1
What it does in Mono-G:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxmatii
1) Cheap removal for problem creatures that Maze of Ith doesn't solve because the attack step isn't the issue, notably: Deathrite, Bob, Pyromancer, Revoker, Stoneforge [to strand Batterskull in hand], Lavamancer, flip Jace, etc.. And there's plenty of other x/1 or 1/x creatures worth exiling too. Hell, I'd estimate that this hits at least 2/3 of the most commonly played creatures in Legacy.
2) Gives us a chance to answer Infect creatures in response to precombat Vines.
3) Real, maindeck-worthy countermagic!!!! In Mono-G!!!!! This is the most important mode, since it greatly improves our game 1 vs Storm and OmniTell. Also counters: Natural Order, Reanimate, GSZ, Terminus, Entreat, Hymn, Cabal Therapy, Ancestral Visions, Time Spiral, and plenty of other relevant cards. It's especially relevant because people don't usually expect countermagic from non-blue decks, so they often don't think to play around it.
4) Flash in token in response to Lili -2.
5) Flash in token as surprise blocker. This has saved my life a surprising number of times.
6) Flash in token EOT for quick burst of mana if you're just short and can't depend on topdecking land
7) Flash in token EOT for surprise attacker to take out planeswalker or opponent at 1.
8) Flash in token vs Dredge, then immediately sacrifice to exile all Bridges.
Seriously, this has become one of my absolute favorite cards in the deck. Each mode independently is pretty good, although not necessarily worth a maindeck slot. But put them together? The flexibility makes it a one-card toolbox that allows Mono-G to interact on a whole new level. There are only a handful of matchups that I don't want the full 4x for (RUG Delver, Eldrazi Stompy, Merfolk, Solidarity, Lands. Can't think of any others offhand.)
Can someone in a UG build comment on Repeal's usefulness currently?
I've cut them for Warping Wails now.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
welcome back to legacy, my friend!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxmatii
draw effect are always nice.....but in general, if your build doesn't include FoW, I'd drop Repeal for Warping Wail.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
If you have Force repeal is better I think (it depend also on the number of blue pitch you have).
I think I'd agree with this, and since I've cut repeals (and trimmed down to 3 Show and Tell) for Warping Wail, I'm now considering/removing Force of Will from the sideboard entirely. Can be very some very awkward hands with it and I think there's enough other hate cards to shore up those matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
do you think is more solid list u / g or g / r? thanks
I prefer U/G right now since that's what I've played and I like the S&T plans, it lets us have ways to claw back into games that we might be out of. I've not played anything else, but looking at the G/R list it looks like a lot of fun and I might give it a whirl eventually. I miss casting Bonfires, my first list was the UGr list that Rock Lee had. Although it's consistency was a lot lower, nothing like bonfiring for 51 damage on the draw step :PQuote:
Originally Posted by caprino
But I can't really compare the 2, it's going to be a lot of personal preference since the decks play differently enough due to the different cards (R/G is going to be more focused on purely ramping mana and Candles, whereas U/G tends to lean on trying to Show and Tell a titan to get going). But also it will depend on the meta you're facing.
Do you have a list u/g thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Corazu
This is what I'm running tonight. It's largely based on Rock Lee's latest list, although I fiddled with the numbers to keep the Candlebras and a couple Pithing Needles in. Need to figure out what cards feel right and what numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by caprino
Main Deck (60)
Creatures (8)
4 Primeval Titan
2 Platinum Emperion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells (26)
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
3 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Brainstorm
3 Warping Wail
3 Show and Tell
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands (26)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Wastes
2 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
Sideboard (15)
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Flusterstorm
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Krosan Grip
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Thought-Knot Seer
One note, is that I would run the 2nd Ugin that he is running, but I don't currently have a second one and since I'm changing so much of my list already to update it, I want to get a feel for the other changes as well (plus I don't want to pay $45 for an Ugin right now, chance he goes down a bit when he rotates even though he's an eternal staple). So I kept Ulamog in that spot. The one thing I noted as I go over this list is the only reason I'm running blue now is for Show and Tell ((big, good reason to), Brainstorm (which frankly I've been getting a bit disenfranchised with - we don't utilize it amazingly well with only 4 fetches and a couple other shuffle effects) and the 2 Flusterstorms out of the side (probably would be 3 but I've only got the 2 so the Mindbreak Traps are filling the other slots). So I'm wondering if a swap to R/G, G or G/W might be worth it. The main problem for the G or R/G decks that seem to want to jam a lot of Candles..I only have 2 and they're really expensive to get a 3rd or 4th now.
Anyways, this is what I'm running tonight, I'll see how it goes, may or may not tweak a bit for the bigger legacy event next weekend.
UGW :DQuote:
Originally Posted by caprino
but I'm also considering a strong blue-based list, with Fow maindeck.
write me a list with the main fowQuote:
Originally Posted by Morden
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19560&iddeck=148881Quote:
Originally Posted by caprino
this is very charming in my opinion, though I don't like some cards.
why Jace, Vryn's Prodigy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
I don't think a list with FoW maindeck would really be any good, I'd think you lose too many core pieces to have enough cards to support FoW main, and in a lot of matches it's just a dead card anyways. I've cut them completely from the sideboard now since I only have 7 blue cards main and a maximum of 15 blue cards after sideboarding, which is just not enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
I've actually just built a mono blue version (replicating mono blue tron in Modern) and will be testing it this week.
My list:
Artifact (12)
4x Expedition Map
4x Pithing Needle
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Instant (22)
4x Brainstorm
4x Condescend
4x Repeal
4x Warping Wail
2x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Force of Will
Creature (2)
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Land (24)
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Vesuva
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
6x Island
1x Eye of Ugin
Sideboard (15)
2x Dismember
3x Flusterstorm
1x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Spatial Contortion
2x Wurmcoil Engine
I'm testing this list currently. Although I want to try out several other versions a) more reliance on Thirst for Knowledge and playing MD Wurmcoils/more artifacts b) ponders/more tappout vs leaving mana open and c) multiple jtms version.
I have trops, Jaces, etc. So this isn't due to budget reasons, I just want to try a more control-y variation that can support MD Forces.
Because Jace, Wunderkind Von Vryn, is stupidly amusing with his combination of Delver damage reduction, recasting spent counterspells like Force (note - Jace's ability is not flashback, so you can use ACCs) and he also loots you to your best cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by caprino
He's pretty decent all-round.
it's not my list (and I would not insert Jace in my own), but it's a nice card: cheap, good blocker, gives flashback to cantrip or s&t. Honestly I prefer trinket mage, changing a little the listQuote:
Originally Posted by caprino
only 2 main creatures?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaam
as a deck archetype you find it competitive with the destination for now?
I couldn't imagine playing this deck without Crop Rotation or Primeval Titan, but let me know how this list does!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaam
yeah, I agree with you. But there are some things that really worry me recently:Quote:
Originally Posted by Corazu
1) growing number of burn deck: at least in my meta, modern is getting abandoned. Thus, a lot of burn player are coming to legacy, since the passage is cheap. Price of Progress is hell: glacial chasm can stop it for some rounds, but actually the ONLY solution to win against burn is S&T into platinum emperion. not enough for me.
2) blood moon/back to basic/magus of the moon MAINDECK: finding a "funny" opponent with this card mainboard (for some reason) means game loss generally.
3) chalice of the void: with new eldrazi this card is becoming more present in the meta. It's not gg if it enters the battlefield, but it's very annoying.....no cantrip, no crop rotation, no candelabra, we have to hope in the topdeck or digging the library with a sensei already in play. Not a wonderful situation.
I will keep playing with no FoW at the moment, but I think putting 3 of them maindeck and build a deck around them is not a crazy idea. Beside all the points above, fow is always good against fast combo decks, quite annoying for a classical 12post list.
Chalice and Blood Moon are both answered by Krosan Grip, which, while sideboard, will give you enough game for 2 and/or 3 if you need them. Chalice is annoying but not absolutely back-breaking, the Eldrazi deck is pretty fast though so it's not a great matchup game 1. I haven't played it since I added Emperion to the list though so it might not be as bad as it was before since they have little in the way of interacting with it once it hits the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
Blood Moon is annoying, but the only deck that plays it mainboard that is making any sort of waves right now is Painter's Servant, the matchup I don't think is that bad, I lost to it but I really didn't have a good idea of what was going on so I didn't necessarily play optimally enough and my list at the time didn't have Krosan Grips in the 75. Blowing up the entire board with an Ugin is fun though.
Burn, I haven't seen in ages. I feel like Eldrazi is a potentially cheaper deck for people leaving modern anyways, it's certainly a better deck than Burn is, especially in larger tournaments. I haven't given the matchup much thought, but yes Emperion is likely the only solid answer right now. Even with that said I'm not sure if I would actually bring Force of Will in, losing 2 cards seems really bad in that match, even for a price of progress. I'd think Flusterstorm would be good enough for the most part. If you sideboard chalice, a chalice on 2 will work fairly well too - Smash to Smithereens and Ancient Grudge both get countered by it, so it protects itself. And chalice on 1 almost locks them out (I'd prioritize on putting it down on 2 though).
Do you write for Hipsters of the Coast? If so, I'm a fan of your articles!Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Have tried the ugw build which was a ton of fun and also the mono green build but wanted to try comething a bit more unique with the mono green build. Here is my current experiment. I call it living posts!!! I didn't want the living wishes to really get the posts but more utility or a vesuva to copy posts. Mirror pool is a test card and has proven useful so far. Veteran explorer has been amazing and couldn't see playing gsz without it. That is why the phyrexian tower is there to sac veteran but as I said still testing.....
3 Living Wish
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Veteran Explorer
4 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
1 Plains
3 Vesuva
4 Explore
1 Moment's Peace
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Savannah
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Mirrorpool
1 Phyrexian Tower
SB: 1 Peacekeeper
SB: 1 Vesuva
SB: 1 Maze of Ith
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 1 Magus of the Tabernacle
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Bane of Progress
SB: 1 Platinum Emperion
When I was maindecking FoW x3, in the cruise/dig era, I targeted 17 blue cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corazu
3x Force of Will
3x Repeal
4x Brainstorm
2x Ponder
1x TrinketMage
3x Show and Tell
1x Fact or Fiction
Against fair decks, I would aggressively FoW cards in Game 1. Usually with the plan to board them out with 3 matchup specific cards. Obviously a FoW build has to be significantly different, no stirrings/warping wails main. One thing from that era I didn't like was having to go shields down on colored sources to cast the ponders. I was contemplating trying impulses in that slot so you could EoT them.
I write the brew corner column, my fiance writes the hope eternal column. I brewed this back when Battle came out for her and she really liked it, then we decided to come back to it after the spoilers of Oath and she is loving this new version. She wrote an article today about the deck in question. It is fun playing around with weird cards and taking old archetypes to new levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
This list is very interesting. I like it a lot. Let me know how the testing goesQuote:
Originally Posted by militiaman89
So I ran this last night in an 8 man, 3 rounds. I didn't have the 2nd Emperion because my buddy couldn't come out, so I put a Kozilek (Butcher of Truth) in its place instead - it ended up being a bit more relevant than if it had have been an Emperion just due to the matchups (I sided Emperion out in every single one).Quote:
Originally Posted by Corazu
[0-0-1] Round 1 vs Shardless BUG - Draw(1-1-1):
This is a buddy of mine, we always have very grindy matches when we play...I really think it's about as 50/50 a match as anything. Constantly looking to improve my play choices, mull choices etc here. Hymns and Lilianas are hard to beat. I don't recall much of it, just that game 3 we came down to time and there was no way we were getting anywhere...he probably had the game locked up unless I pulled out a miracle though, so in hindsight I should have just conceded because a draw is a loss (prizing based on x-0, x-1).
Sideboarding for this match:
-1 Candle
-1 Platinum Emperion
+2 Relic of Progenitus
Notes: I pulled the Candle because he plays (and sideboards in) a few abrupt decays, and I didn't think I really needed it, where a Relic would be better. Platinum Emperion just dies to Liliana, he's there to shore up aggro matches anyways.
[1-0-1] Round 2 vs Jund - Win (2-0):
This is the match I most remember. Game 1 I had not much going on, built a board with 2 Cloudpost, Tropical Island and a Forest I believe, along with a Candle. Nothing else really going on in hand, had a Crop Rotation in hand as well. Liliana came down on 3 and I'm able to get a needle or anything on board to deal with her, she goes off on turn 6, and he gives me a choice of Tropical Island, Cloudpost, Candle vs Cloudpost, Tropical and one other land (forest I think?). I keep the Candle pile, he wastelands the Cloudpost, which I Crop Rotate away to get another Cloudpost. He lands another Liliana and starts ticking up, I'm playing off the top of my deck but between Warping Wails casting on Liliana +1 to make Scions, holding off Tarmogoyfs while I'm at low life, and drawing the MVP card that is Sea-Gate Wreckage (drew me 3 cards under Liliana!) I manage to cast a Titan to stabilize with a couple glimmerposts (I believe I had picked up a Vesuva before this to copy cloudpost). The titan died to Liliana -2 (she was at 6 so it was a bit of a decision for him). I then proceed to rip a Kozilek off a Top spin, cast him drawing 2 Titans, of which I then cast another one. I was at 1 life at the worst, managed to go up to 20 when he conceded.
Sideboard:
-1 Platinum Emperion
+1 Relic of Progenitus
Notes: Would prefer 2 Relics, and would have sideboarded the same as vs Shardless BUG but Candle was the only reason (well, along with Sea-Gate) that I was able to recover. So I left it in.
Game 2: Show and Tell Titan on Turn 3 and ended up going for Emrakul a couple turns later. It wasn't close.
[1-1-1] Round 3 vs Omnitell - Loss(0-2):
I had glanced at this guys match earlier when I was playing round 1, and I had seen an Emrakul on board but not Omni, so I just figured he was playing Sneak and Show. That made for a very rude surprise when he cast Show and Tell. I crop rotated for Karakas in response, and Warping Wailed the Show and Tell. It got Forced, and I put in a Kozilek off Show and Tell. He flipped over an Omniscience. I then wanted to flip the table.
Sideboard:
-1 Platinum Emperion
-1 Kozilek
-1 Ugin
-3 Show and Tell
-2 Pithing Needle
-1 Ancient Stirrings
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Sensei's Divining Top (I think)
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Mindbreak Trap
+3 Krosan Grip
+3 Thought-Knot Seer
+2 Chalice of the Void
Game 2 I had Candle with Crop rotation available, Primeval Titan and Thought-Knot Seer in hand. He Gitaxian Probed me and saw everything (except Titan wasn't in my hand at that point). He went for Show and Tell, I dropped Thought-Knot Seer and took his Emrakul, but he had Burning Wish to go grab Enter the Infinite. Unfortunately I didn't have Warping Wail, so I died again. Thought-Knot Seer definitely makes this matchup better though. I just need to mulligan better against this deck. (It's still going to be a bad matchup though).
Ultimately, I'm fairly happy with the cards in the list. Emperion got sided out every match, but that's just because I didn't face any of the matchups he'd be in for (DnT, Elves, Storm, Eldrazi, Delver decks). I'd be happy to continue testing him. I think I miss the 3rd needle, I've always been big on them because they're so versatile. They definitely help vs Liliana, in addition to natural mode of Wasteland. I'm unsure about Candelabra, I feel like 2 is better, but I also am unsure if I really have the room - when they're good they're good, but I've also won without them a lot. I know they're much more necessary in the mono-g or R/G versions, since you don't have access to Show and Tell, and that's another thing I'm considering, whether I might be better off switching to R/G to get access to goodies like Kozilek's Return. The only thing really keeping me in blue is Show and Tell (which is a good card and a good reason to be blue), and Brainstorm isn't terrible although frankly not as necessarily powerful as it could be. It smooths out possible hand draws, helps you hide from discard - maybe I'm underrating it just because I'm so used to it I'm not noticing it's effects, and am blinded more by the scenarios where I can't shuffle away and get locked with garbage which happens more often than I'd like.
Testing Tonight against Eldrazi
http://www.twitch.tv/ehhhhhhh
i'll be streaming this weekend with my mono green / white build
write liste in this post thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Ehhh
1 Emrakul, the Aeons TornQuote:
Originally Posted by caprino
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Crop Rotation
2 Expedition Map
3 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Savannah
4 Primeval Titan
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Dark Depths
2 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Warping Wail
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Veteran Explorer
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Pithing Needle
2 Moment's Peace
4 Windswept Heath
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Rest in Peace
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Krosan Grip
2 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Dawnstrider
2 Moat
1 Ethersworn Canonist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
I have to agree, or at least concede that recent developments are very interesting. It seems, Colorless Eldrazi has done in short time what cloudpost hasn't been able to do in several years - namely, break into the format. I had to take a respite from post because, quite simply its very frustrating to play when nearly every other deck sans miracles is smaller, cheaper and faster and post just doesn't pay off. Most of the best new tools are represented in this list of yours, and has some overlap with recent successful lists by experienced players, as well as some old favorites of this thread. I need to look at how these colorless matches have been playing out, alas, unsupported format is ...unsupported. Not sure I agree with everything here, crusher could easily be replaced with something more classic post, ostone, ugin, or all is dust maybe.
ahaha nice, i'm testing impulses as we speak. Replacing AS and adding stifles. impulsing into FoW (or surgical post board) is quite nice, but i'm not sure this is the way to go...Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Nice list...no candelabra?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehhh
So i ran the living wish version which provided a huge amoubt of utility. The card that surpised.me the most was peacekeeper out of board which blanked a infect opponent and won the game. The deck felt extremely powerful but clunky at times. I was considering adding in warping wails but wanna here what people have to say about them. In terms to the living wish version i would shave on the gsz which clogged up my hand alot and i could assemble my posts fast enough. Im not sure what would help with it, i did use explore but is exploration a possible solution? Also the list i posted i did a quick switch for 1 veteran explorer for a knight of the reliquary as a gsz target which definitely diversified my threats and added an additional search engine. Im tempted to go back to ugw posts just for the raw power of show and tell and terminus. I played that version last week and went 3-1 at a local. With the uwg version i beat u/r delver, storm (somehow didnt even have flusterstorms, reanimator and lost to another u/r delver player. I will keep switching between versions and brewing with living wish its really incredible.
I played astral slide in legacy for a while and it ran living wish with peacekeeper in the board. Great for the elves match up as well as infect. I had a lot of fun with it. Peacekeeper can really throw an opponent off and keep you safe while you assemble an engine.