Printable View
To be honest, I boarded the Confluences only once during the entire tourney. It was against Dragon Stompy and I used it to kill two Chalices.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
I'll continue to use it and see what happens.
I wanted to squeeze one Jaya in the mainboard , but I didn't want to reduce the number of the other cards so I just cut one recruiter.Quote:
Originally Posted by SDBobPlissken
Jaya won me a game each against RG Lands and D.Stompy.
Wow, this board has been pretty silent lately. No innovations or testing results out there? I thought people would actually be ramping up testing a little given the LV PT this weekend. Anyway, thought I would clutter up the board with some thoughts...
One thing I've been noticing a lot more of is the new Miracles deck. Particularly online, this deck is everywhere right now. From my experience it's not as bad as the old Miracles (no counterbalance lock) but it still isn't easy. They typically load up with removal and a lot of lists are also now playing Leyline of Sanctity which we have to get around to combo. I've been actually siding out all of my creatures save 1-2 painters and just out controlling them. I've won many games just milling them with grindstone slowly and controlling their threats.
Speaking of leylines, I'm playing leylines in my board lately and I have to say they seem really good right now. It feels particularly good against the MU's we are a little soft to (burn, big red, fast combo) and I have also been seeing a lot of discard and liliana making a resurgence. I also bring it in against the new miracles deck where they are constantly trying to manipulate the top of our deck with Jace, portent and predict. We also can't get Jace ultimated as long as leyline is in play.
Another point, with surgical extraction EVERYWHERE right now, I think we really need to diversify our win cons. Personally, I have taken a page from big red and have gone back to 3 fiery confluence in the board and 2 chandra and the pyrite spellbombs in the main. That along with the few creatures that can occasionally get in for a few points I can usually get there. Chandra behind a bridge is still a house. I am still on Daretti as well and if I can get Daretti tokens, a pyrite spellbomb and a welder going, I can accumulate damage pretty quick. I did actually have an opponent drop a humility on me last week (obviously not knowing the painter interaction) and I actually proceeded to beat him down with Daretti tokens....made me almost consider running humility myself.
Also, I know I was pushing git probe in some earlier posts. And although they weren't bad at times and did give you information, they did not provide enough draw/library manipulation. I was also cutting some number of other very good cards to make room for them. So, that idea has gone the way of the dodo.
Anyway, good luck to anyone who is playing legacy in Las Vegas this weekend. Hope to see some painters in the mix.
After reading your post leylines would actually solve a lot of my problems. I think I'm gonna try to snag some before vegas tomorrow. Are you playing in it? What would you cut for the leylines in this list? I'm thinking definitely cop:red. Any other suggestions please let me know. Do you mind sharing your lust with daretti?
4 mountain
1 plains
1 great furnace
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 arid Mesa
2 plateau
4 painters servant
2 simian spirit guide
1 revoker
2 goblin welder
3 imperial recruiter
1 ethersworn canoeist
2 ensnaring bridge
3 lotus petal
2 Chandra torch of defiance
4 grindstone
1 relic of progenitus
4 pyroblast
3 red elemental blast
4 blood moon
3 enlightened tutor
1 engineered explosives
SB:
2 fiery confluence
3 sudden shock
1 ethersworn canonist
1 trinisphere
1 cop:red
1 magus of the moon
1 ensnaring bridge
1 Rest In Peace
1 containment priest
1 tormods crypt
1 hedge mage
1 faerie macabre
I am still testing with black, but now just for sideboard cards and 1 of kolaghan's command. I tried out scroll rack and bob at one point and both were mediocre.
So far I think WR seems like the most flexible and mono red just seems a little boring to play, but solid. K Command is a heck of a card though.
Hey new to Legacy so this might be a terrible idea, but would Inventors' Fair be a worthwhile card in this deck? the mono red version in particular seems capable of throwing down a lot of artifacts, it helps out a little (maybe?) with the burn matchup, and gives a late game tutor to finish off the combo.
Inventors fair is iffy. Its a good card and definitely has an upside. The problem is that we are already playing with a lot of colorless lands and we don't want to get choked out. Also, it obviously gets shut off by blood moon so "specialty lands" have traditionally not been great in this deck. I wouldn't necessarily fault anyone for trying it though.
@sdbob: sorry I didn't reply sooner. Hope GPLV is treating you well. You have a pretty tight SB. I would probably cut the bridge, cop red and maybe canonist. Canonist is a good card but in my experience is always late to the party.
I'll post my list when I get home.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
What if one has a lower colorless count due to a lack of City of Traitors? I know that loses some of the explosiveness, but trying to compensate by upping the spirit guide and petal counts
Invocation blood moon looks pretty sick
I tried RW painter tonight with 1-2 + bye results. It was pretty meh. Really different without top, Felt underwhelming, but probably also because I played burn round one and just folded to it.
Does Painter have the highest ceiling for pimp now? We got fetches, Tombs, Painter, Grindstone, E-bridge, Blood Moon, Lotus Petal, Mox Opal, Explosives. It's not all that expensive of pimp (reletive), but there's a lot to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by GradStudent
Quote:
Originally Posted by tired_papasmurf
Depends on your definition. I kinda feel like its d&t because feelings are so mixed on expeditions and that deck is available entirely in foil
Yo guys if any of you or anyone you know are potentially in the market for some cool painter stuff let me know. I'm looking to get more into Vintage at the moment as legacy has kinda been stale for me for a while and the top banning was really deflating to my preferred style of Shortcake. Plus I'm trying to get a new surfboard haha. Shoot me a PM if interested.
Also want to add that I'm still going to be working on the deck and playing it online, I just barely make it out to paper events ever.
I think you'll be sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
On another note, has anyone revisited Nahiri as a walker for the deck?
I would still play ajani or Chandra over her.
Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
So I played side events at the gp this weekend. First event didn't go well. Second event added a couple smugglers copter and they were quite good when I saw them. You kinda have to build around them a little more but they are quite good at cycling through your deck while clocking your opponent. Against eldrazi I had a game where he had out chalice on 1 and I had out ensnaring bridge, dudes and a copter. I would draw up to 3, attack and then play a card. Ended up getting there with copter alone. Just something for people to consider.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Been thinking about copter for a little while but haven't had a chance to test. Were you playing in Shortcake, mono-red or BR? My mono-red build is still stuck with Relics, which have been decent but not amazing. I mulligan a lot more than I used to with top. You can win off 5, or even 4, but the wheels do fall off more often than they used. I also find that without the same ability to dig for combo pieces, the softlock pieces like Bridge feel a lot more fragile, and I'm always sweating to close the game without the redundancy of big bombs that other red prison decks run.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
When you say build around copter, how many creatures are you playing? Is Servant/Welder/Recruiter enough? Which matchups have you found the copter best in?
Went 4-2 on sunday in a local tournament (Win A Dual Open - Tübingen/Germany with 36 Players) which was good enough for 7th Place.
I played a Mono Red Version, nearly the same as the one i played at Eternal Weekend Europe for a 7-2 finish.
- 1 Welder
- 2 Top (of course)
- 5 fetch Lands
+ 1 Chandra
+ 2 Relic of Progenitus
+ 5 Mountains
My Matchups:
2-1 Infect
2-0 Canadian Threshold
0-2 UW Miracles
0-2 Sneak and Show
2-1 Grixis Delver
2-0 Elves
Well, I've actually been playing 3 colors for all the goodness. This is what I played this weekend...Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper
// Lands
3 [MR] Great Furnace
2 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
2 [UNH] Mountain
2 [B] Badlands
1 [B] Plateau
1 [UNH] Plains
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
3 [UL] Goblin Welder
1 [MMA] Ethersworn Canonist
3 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
// Spells
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [TE] Lotus Petal
2 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [IA] Pyroblast
2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
1 [KLD] Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 [DK] Blood Moon
3 [MMA] Pyrite Spellbomb
3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
2 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
2 [KLD] Smuggler's Copter
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 3 [C15] Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [MMA] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 [OD] Sphere of Law
SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
I have really been liking the Daretti and since it also turns on smuggler's copter, I am looking to change the numbers around a little and would probably add one of each to shave a pyrite and chandra from the main. I am also thinking about just running r/b and doing something like this...
// Lands
3 [MR] Great Furnace
3 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
2 [UNH] Mountain
2 [B] Badlands
1 [UNH] Swamp
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
3 [UL] Goblin Welder
3 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
// Spells
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [TE] Lotus Petal
2 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [IA] Pyroblast
2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
4 [DK] Blood Moon
3 [CN2] Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
2 [MMA] Pyrite Spellbomb
2 [PS] Diabolic Intent
3 [KLD] Smuggler's Copter
1 [A] Red Elemental Blast
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 [KLD] Chandra, Torch of Defiance
SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 3 [C15] Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 1 [RTR] Slaughter Games
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [MMA] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
In testing, the diabolic intent have been pretty good with the extra daretti as well. They allow you to go get anything (including a blast to protect the combo) and there is a huge benefit to putting something into your hand vs on top of you library, especially with all the predicts running around these days. 3-4 color delver lists are also gaining popularity as well so I am adding a magus back into the mix. I will miss the canonist and the white enchantments from the board but that's about it.
Thoughts on Grim Lavamancer? Going off the GP Vegas results, that seems like a reasonable play against DNT and Delver
EDIT: Also better with copter as it crews and then copter throws fuel into the yard for lavamancer
You will struggle to have ammo for Lavamancer available when you need it. Copter is just an additional piece to the puzzle.Quote:
Originally Posted by finksfinksfinks
What it comes to pinging, I started testing Walking Ballista as tutorable removal. I was talking to another painter dude in GP Copenhagen when he mentioned that it is a consideration. The thought has amused me since then.
Actually, does anyone have advice for the DNT matchup? I've been hearing it's bad, but not much more
Depends on your list. Obviously bridges and creature removal are good. Fiery confluence is typically a blow out. What colors do you play?Quote:
Originally Posted by finksfinksfinks
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Mono Red. I'm trying out Gamble with extra welders and smuggler's copter to dig deeper into the deck.
I played another local event with the list in the link below (slightly streamlined, -1 Pia and Kiran, +1 Enlightened Tutor, -1 other card I think [Ethersworn Canonist]) a month ago, going 3-1 including a third win vs DnT making that seem like a very positive matchup (3-0 in matches, 6-1 in games). Like I wrote I really liked Fiery Confluence and Ghirapur Aether Grid in the sideboard, changing the numbers but 1-2 of each. The grid seems great vs decks like DnT and Infect if you play a Mox Opal mana base. I also played the Ballista being discussed which serves double purpose in this list as a win condition with Salvagers and just generally very valuable buyback through a Salvager.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1009836
Hey guys,
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but DrewliusMaximus, who started this thread and pioneered so much of the deck, passed away this morning after his long battle with leukemia.
Drew was a great friend and his presence will be sorely missed.
If any of you are interested in contributing to his GoFundMe page to help his family with the costs, PM me and I'll send you the link.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
Holy shit that's terrible. He was a huge inspiration to me and a big reason I decided to first get into the deck. For the newer painter players, like Esper said, Drew was a huge part of the old thread, when it was literally only a handful of people in the entire world working on the deck. I was lucky enough to join the squad towards the tail end of this right before the Imperial Recruiter reprint and I definitely remember bouncing ideas off each other and working on writing the new thread together. Painter was an unknown deck basically that you never saw in any events, and a big reason why it made its way to prominence was because of Drew's time and dedication to the deck.
Just wanted to say thanks for all the work he did and that he'll be missed
Didn't know the guy but respect what he has done. He leaves a legacy...
Would you say it's worthwhile to run gravehate mb so combo is actually viable G1 vs. emrakul decks?
Sorry to hear about the loss of Drew. My condolences to his family and anyone who knew him.Quote:
Originally Posted by finksfinksfinks
As far as grave hate goes I have been packing a one of relic in the main. I feel that game1 vs emrakul decks is all about bridge and Chandra. Against Omni I play a main deck canonist.
I have been testing out two crystal ball in the main in place of too. It's not bad once it's out but at 3cmc it can be slow. I like that it allows you to put the garbage on the bottom of your deck. If only it was cmc 2 and not 3. C'mon WotC let's get something playable.
Thoughts go out to Drews family and loved ones. We shall continue to carry the torch forward.
Ran my old 75 I've done well with prior to top and only switching 3 top for 3 relic and 1 welder for 1 ethersworn.
4-0d local tonight beating good players on deathblade, storm, 4c leovold and burn.
Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
If you're playing local and keep losing to the same guy, I could see putting in one or two. If you mean to a big tournament I would say it's not worth it and you should just hope to win games 2 and 3 when you know you'll need it.Quote:
Originally Posted by finksfinksfinks
I agree, personally with Chandra in the picture that should really be your game plan once you realize you can't mill your opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by tired_papasmurf
Sad to hear about Drew, I started playing way after all the contributions he made to the deck.
I also agree in general although I can also get behind people playing relic. I think deathrite is the second most played card in legacy right now and relic essentially neuters that card. It also cantrips so it's never a dead draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by tired_papasmurf
Honestly, I do bring in 1-2 grave hate cards against emrakul decks but I usually also side out a few copies of the combo pieces to bring in more alt win cons. Otherwise you are basically trying to put together a 3 card combo against a deck with counter magic.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
To me relic is all about the flexibility. Why play spellbomb to kill deathrite when it can't do anything in the first place. It also plays well in lots of matchups where we are lacking in tools. Storm, sneak, reanimator, loam, dredge, the list goes on. Dealing 2 damage is not what we need to be doing.
Spellbomb helps solve problems we don't have
Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
Spellbomb seems good against DnT for killing around Mother of Runes, at least.
I'll agree grave hate seems more useful, though. Is there a consensus between using Tormod's crypt v Relic? I've seen lists with both
Also (sorry for double-posting) How do we deal with Chalice on 1 preboard?
Jaya handles chalice.
Seth
Jaya is number one but chalice decks also tend to be soft for moons and bridge. Last time I prepared with a maindeck Fiery confluence, which is marvellous against many decks in general.
EDIT: Red stompy is atill a shitty matchup to my liking. Moons are worthless and they have chalice. Nowadays they might even play 4 x Confluence in main, which is bad news.
Regarding pyrite vs relic, I think they are both good but they very different things. Relic is great against everything you mentioned but it doesn't do Jack against delver, stoneforge (or any of the other d&t creatures), Bob, young pyro, pridemage, elves, etc, etc. The other benefit of pyrite is that it's recursive with welder or daretti so you can kill larger creatures or so multiple damage to Planeswalkers or to the dome.
I would definitely play relic over crypt if you are planning on main decking it. As a one of I would play crypt just because you can recur it with welder.
I agree confluence is still really really good. But without that in the main (or something else, like Daretti!) against chalice decks you have to have an alt win condition, like Chandra.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Went 4-0 today at my LGS.
4 mountain
4 arid Mesa
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
1 great furnace
1 plains
2 plateau
4 painters servant
2 simian spirit guide
2 goblin welder
1 ethersworn canonist
3 imperial recruiter
1 phyrexian revoker
4 blood moon
4 pyroblast
2 red elemental blast
4 grindstone
2 ensnaring bridge
2 Chandra torch of defiance
3 lotus petal
1 engineered explosives
3 enlightened tutor
2 crystal ball
Sideboard:
3 sudden shock
2 fiery confluence
2 containment priest
1 ethersworn canonist
1 trinisphere
1 ensnaring bridge
1 magus of the moon
1 Rest In Peace
1 tormods crypt
1 circle of protection red
1 duergar hedge mage
Round 1 vs alluren
G1: I'm playing mountains and he his fetching non basics. I end up landing a turn 3 blood moon and he scoops.
G2: Game was long and grindy. I end up revoking his jitte after it did a lot of work. He's able to deal with my Chandra. He finally gets there after many turns of draw go with his combo.
G3: we both mull to 5. I pyroblast his early brainstorm and end up with a 3ball and canonist on the field. He finally hits his third land drop but it's too late as I have two canonist on board at that point and he does from beat down.
Round 2 vs 4 color delver
G1: turn 1 grind stone. Turn 2 painter fought through force with a monkey blast. He collective brutality my hand and sees I have enough to activate next turn and scoops.
G2: I have tomb tomb painter painter grindstone and something else in hand. I turn 1 painter and he forces and then casts surgical. Ouch. However that was pretty much all of his resources. I have a revoker on deathrite and end up confluencing his deathrite after he removes my revoker. I start with the anemic beat downs plus Chandra +1 ability. He's at 1 life and casts jace which is met with a pyroblast and he scoops.
Round 3 vs Omni sneak and show
G1: grindy match up. I knew what he was playing beforehand as he knew mine so I knew what to grab. This game was really grinds. Eventually the board state is me with a revoker on sneak attack, canonist, bridge, welder, and some recruiters. I was able to get him down to 2 life but now I'm facing a down griselbrand and an emrakul along with omniscience. I get a crystal ball into play and start digging, putting the garbage on the bottom. I have a painter on blue on the board also and he finally doesn't have an answer for the 3rd blast I throw at griselbrand and I swing with all my dorks for the win.
G2: Another grindy game. I side out 3 stones, 4 blood moon, a goblin welder, and explosives for 2 containment priest, 1 bridge, 1 crypt, 2 confluence, 1 canonist, 1 hedge mage, and 1 trinisphere. I am able to land a turn 2 priest and end up resolving an ensnaring bridge. I eot tutor for a canonist and somehow manage to get a Chandra to stick. After all the anemic beat downs I am able to finish him off with Chandra's +1 ability. These two games brought us to time.
Round 4 vs UWr new miracles
G1: we keep trading resources and I have a moon out to shut off his fetching. We trade blows with snapcaster and welder for many turns. He terminuses once I get a recruiter out. I land a Chandra after finally exhausting his resources along with a canonist. I get there with Chandra. I was also gridnatoning him a lot. He probably only had about 20 cards left in his library.
G3: I blast his early brainstorm which turned out to be key because he wasn't able to put the two terminuses back on his library. I have a moon, bridge, we trade turns and I keep milling and activating crystal ball end of turn. I land a grindstone and cast painter with enough to activate but don't to play around swords. He hardcasts terminus next turn with the miracle trigger. I don't have a blast so I activate grindstone in response and win.
Not a bad showing after putting the deck down for a bit since the top ban. My sneak and show opponent and 4 color delver opponent both misplayed forcing my grindstone. Against the delver player this was after he surgicaled my painters. He said he did it because he plays a lot of blue. I guess the sneak and show player did it for the same reason. Canonist was amazing for me and I'm glad I put one in the main and had an extra in the side. Crystal ball is surprisingly really good. I don't think going more than two is correct though as it can get clunky. I highly recommend that others try it out. It's great in the late game and so far no one is countering it. It's no top but it allows you to look at the top two and put the garbage on the bottom. It allows you to dig faster than top did in this deck if you are looking at junk on top of your library. Funny how out of all the games I played I only popped the combo off twice for the win.