Elspeth seems best. Tokens that can beat up Lilly, flying Batterskulls, tokens to eat the edict effect, isn't a one-time effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
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Elspeth seems best. Tokens that can beat up Lilly, flying Batterskulls, tokens to eat the edict effect, isn't a one-time effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Elspeth has, without a doubt, the biggest board impact. However, she is a proactive 4 CMC permanent with a difficult mana cost. I believe that if you want to dedicate a slot to a 4 CMC permanent, Restoration has a metagame advantage over Venser for the reasons I listed in my previous post. However, let's not discount the other possibilities such as a 4th Snapcaster Mage, the inclusion of Grim Lavamancer, additional counterspells or removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
I am reluctant to try Lavamancer due to its inherent dissynergy with Snapcaster, on the other hand it's a must answer for BUG and you can deploy it on turn 1... I'm wondering if the Punishing Fires package would be a better fit in that case.
It does come up from time to time, but my experience had been that it usually isn't a problem. Between eating fetches and having your own stuff killed, I usually find that it's not that difficult to keep at least 1 StP or Lightning Bolt in the yard for you to Snapcaster back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgs
I haven't played in a while due to almost selling all my magic.
So fill me in guys, do you still see some esperblade decks around or has shardless BUG finally buried my favorite deck under the ground?
Esper Stoneblade doesn't see much play anymore. Most of those players moved onto the Deathblade deck (take Esper, add green for Deathrite Shaman).Quote:
Originally Posted by AEnesidem
Yeah, blade is far from dead. It's just a slightly different flavor than it used to be
Actually, I've been getting kind of irritated at Deathblade (4-color), and am looking to get back to my EsperBlade list. However, it seems as though no one is playing it. I can't find an updated list or any real discussion on it. This thread has gone UWr as far as I can see. Can someone help me see why? I play UWr Miracle, and imho would prefer that to the UWr (patriot)blade. Heck, I feel like I would rather play UWr Delver than this...
-ABC
Lightning Bolt is more consistent and cheaper than Abrupt Decay against creature decks, and SFM/Clique/flash creatures are better agaisnt control in turn. UW/r Stoneblade is just in a good spot right now for the metagame. All the graveyard hate is relying on DRS, which with 7 1cc removal makes sure there is no disruption to the graveyard for Snapcaster Mage to regain all its advantages. Deathblade relies too much on having DRS alive to fuel its powerful spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
I agree on all points, but other than "it's just in a good spot in the metagame", I haven't heard a reason for PatriotBlade to be played over Esperblade...I'm not arguing for DRS, I'm trying to find an Esper build, or a reason for the UWr build over it that doesn't lack substance.
-ABC
being in a good spot in the metagame is a good enough reason on itself. esperblade obviously isn't that well positioned right now because there are better goodstuff decks out there who outplay it on some levels .Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
the red splash offers better answers to DRS, planeswalkers etc... all of which are highly present in the metagame. i can see the logic behind it and i don't think that argument needs reinforcement. red is better suited for the conditions our metagame presents to us and black isn't.
now, the reason why i stick to esperblade is because i don't have volcanic islands (and find deathblade to be a horrible deck) and because some very strong players here still consistently perform well with the deck here.
Okay, I can settle for that. I still would like to play it again, as I think I'm a stronger player with it than with Deathblade, and while I do have access to red, I am very much a non-red player. I hate it. It's why tonight while I was getting a deck ready and thought I was putting together a Miracles list, I ended up with some bad esperblade build, said screw it, and threw it all back in the box. I like Esper, I've always enjoyed esper, and I guess I'm going to go back through this thread until I find a build I can start from and make my own with a few tweaks here and there.
-ABC
If the metagame presents a lot of decks that are aggro - play the red splash for more removal.
If the metagame presents a lot of decks that are combo - play the black splash for more disruption.
Red also gives you better ways to hate on other blue based decks, which Black lacks outside of spot discards. Even then, black discard can come up short against active Jace, SDT, or Brainstorms.
HAHA what more do you want? A deck is good in the meta is a deck that should be played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
If you want an esperblade list worth playing, this is the list good players have had success with here in Belgium. I have had some success with this deck too:
3 underground sea
3 tundra
1 scrubland
1 karakas
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
2 marsh flats
2 island
1 swamp
1 plains
4 snapcaster mage
4 stoneforge mystic
2 vendilion clique
3 jace, the mind sculptor
4 brainstorm
2 ponder
3 force of will
3 spell pierce
3 lingering souls
4 swords to plowshares
3 thoughtseize
1 inquistition of kozilek
1 batterskull
1 umezawa’s jitte
2 nihil spellbomb
1 surgical extraction
1 sword of feast and famine
2 perish
1 darkblast
1 supreme verdict
1 path to exile
1 force of will
2 duress
2 flusterstorm
1 meddling mage
The guy who piloted this deck to success plays this deck almost exclusively and top 8's almost every event he goes to if i have to believe my friends. It's true that i've never been at an event where he wasn't at the top tables. The list is very streamlined and dropped all the one-of clunkyness. That also means that you have less room for error though as you don't have a big reset button in Supreme verdict or a catch-all in engineered explosives.
The only thing is, i don't really have shardless BUG decks at my local metagame and haven't been to bigger events lately (which are crowded with BUG) so i have no idea how it performs against BUG. I guess it performs ok and has a winning chance because there was quite some BUG present at the event he topped and he is still playing esperblade.
Win another local 14 person event with the list I posted last page.
3-1 Swiss (scooped to Miracles instead of forcing the draw)
Beat:
Round 1 GW Maverick (2-1)
Round 2 Esper Stone Blade (2-0)
Round 3 Tin Fins (:cool:) (2-0)
Round 4 Miracles (1-1) scooped to Top 4
Top 4 Esper Stone Blade (same as round 2) (2-0)
Finals Miracles (2-0) same as Round 4
REB and Bolt are really good against fair strategies. /obv
same here actually. I tried both when I was playing this deck a lot, and venser has always been better then restoration angel, that my testgroup ultimately qualified as a cute card. In the worst case scenario, you can pitch venser to FoW if you have him early, when resto is just awkward until you can brainstorm it away or until can can actually play it. Also, I like the show and tell hate he provides against some variants. For the angel, I only ever used her as a 3/4 beater, flashed in eot to kill random plainswalkers. Sometimes you get to rebuy a clique or a stoneforge effect, and sometimes you block a flipped delver with it (not that it's good in that matchup, but it happened). So in the end, Venser was just more useful overall, more versatile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
What more do you want?Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower
well when you run red with bolts and grims, you don't really need to attack random planeswalkers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
Sorry to call you out on this, but Venser is much more "awkward" than Restoration Angel. He really only shines against SnT. 4 CMC is unrealistic vs. most non-SnT combos as a line of disruption. As for all the other fair matchups, he is either a very conditional "catch-all" or an over-costed body with a turn 4 tempo effect, which is lousy to say the least. You get to do silly things with him once you manage to pair him up with a Karakas, but that's all very late, narrow, and intensive. Clique is a real threat and has a relevant ability in every matchup, the fact that it couples with Karakas is a bonus and clearly not why we play the card. Take away Clique's ability and legendary status and she is still great in this deck. Flash, Flying, and 3 power for the cost of 3 is key here. Looking back at how you described Restoration Angel, I fail to see how your test group came to its conclusions because it obviously has value in this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower
Concerning the RUG matchup, she doesn't only deal with a Delver, but a fully able Mongoose profitably. At 4 CMC she will take away the pressure from 8/12 of their threats which is more than reasonable for its cost. Resto Angel hits a blind spot vs. RUG that they have to FoW/Daze because otherwise, they cannot deal with her 1 for 1 outside of outsizing her with a Goyf or a scarce Dismember. I think she is very relevant to this matchup, or at least, more so than Venser by any means.
@KobeBryan,
You can't exactly take down a Lily or a Jace by digging out a Grim Lavamancer, it is too late at that point. Besides, it's not like Grim Lavamancer, once active, prevented PW's from being fruitful. If your argument here is that Lightning Blade decks packing Grim Lavamancer are already equiped to deal with Planeswalkers consistently, I urge you to reconsider.
I don't feel like the pros of Grim make up for his cons. "Beating Deathrite Shamans" isn't all that relevant for a deck packing 7-8 1CMC removal spells and 3-4 Snapcasters. DRS is a non-issue for this deck, and that is in part why it is so successful.