[Deck] BUG "Shardless" Control

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

Every time I try to help someone with their list it ends up just turning into my 75 lol, so I don't think I can help much more than to say test it out and see what you do/don't like.

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Where can i find your list?

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

I've been learning more and more that using your removal correctly is probably the reason some people are having problems with not having enough of it. Do what you want, but I feel like more reps will help you learn how the deck truly wants to be played. Anyway, no real report as I don't do well recalling and my notes are never adequate as I focus on the game and my lines of play before taking notes. Here is the skinny on the games I played.

LIST LOCATED AT BOTTOM OF POST.

RD 1: Richard, on 4C Delver

Game 1: First game of the day, I play too greedy. I have 2x Goyf and a clique, he an unflipped Delver. I swing will all for a sure victory the next turn, but leave myself open to delver plus bolt. He flips delver with a ponder and ponders into bolt. My bad. Grind it out, not quick beats. I'm learning all the time.

game 2: I hymned away his second land drop, he plays 2x delver turn 1/2, I deal with his board and waste his land. A turn or 2 later Goyf gets the scoop.

Game 3: I mull to 5 and just can't get there. I did well even with the mull, but still lost.

0-1


RD 2: Ethan, on Miracles

Game 1: I get there with a Creeping Tar Pit for 18 damage, Strix for the last 2 after a Back to Basics shuts off the manland.

Game 2: Early Shardless gets a few points, then Clique, then I clean up the match with Tar Pit. This card is awesome against Miracles, especially when paired up with a Library.

1-1

RD 3: Alex, on Storm

Game 1: He combos off fairly early. A Decay on LED and a hymn slowed him down, but I didn't have enough disruption for it to matter.

Game 2: A lot of work from DRS and Null Rod.

Game 3: An active Force and some hand disruption with a motley crew of beats gets there through multiple EtW combo turns. First one for 12 goblins gets answered by a Golgari Charm as the first card flipped to a blind cascade and then drew a Maelstrom Pulse, which answered the next EtW a few turns later.

2-1

RD 4: Matt, aggro Eldrazi (colorless) This is a teammate. He had played two other BUG lists previously and had beat them both

Game 1: I deal with his little guys while getting a wasteland heavy draw if I recall correctly and keep him off mana.

Game 2: His Chalices are irrelevant and he has no pressure other than a TKS, which I kill with Pulse and then Goyfs win the game in quick fashion.

3-1


RD 5: Andrew, Maverick(?) A sourcer, forgot his handle, but if you read this, Andrew, would you lmk if you were on maverick or what?

Game 1: Thoughtseize rips one of two Knights, but that's all I can remember other than I win this one.

Game 2: I lose in several turns, Maze of Ith helping him along the way.

Game 3: I win, but I don't remember many details other than it seems goyf was the main threat.

4-1


RD 6: Leonard with Merfolk

Game 1: I get multiple goyfs and deal with true names via a timely Deluge.

Game 2: I deal with a lord with a Disfigure, a manland with a Waste, and Null Rod for Vial, which he had a double vial draw. He gets down 3 TNN in this game, 2 of which I deal with via Golgari Charm, the last I used a Deluge. Finish it off with 2 goyfs again.

I'm 3rd seed with 15 points, into the Top 8.



Semi's against Thomas (Admiral Arzar here on the Source), he's on Sylvan Plug, but with Goyfs. Turns out, its better. No kidding...

Game 1: He wins, but I don't remember much other than I believe a billion Zeniths into a billion Goyfs.

Game 2: I wasn't sure what he was on, as it was a strange hand and I saw very little besides a choke and GSZ and Goyf, and I think a Mox Diamond. I played around Choke here and in game 3 with 3 basics fetched early, not popping fetches and using DRS for Blue often. I get goyfs going, he doesn't draw lands and I think I wastelanded also. I answer his goyfs and Sylvan Library and win.

Game 3: Goyfs, played around Choke some more. Don't remember much, just that it was good games and a lot of fun. Thanks!

Semi's: Tyler, Miracles

He played 3 Jace, no Entreats, and Mentor, although I'm unsure how many of them, but it was a really strong list, and he played well.

G1: He resolves a turn 4 Jace. This is unexpected as I have a full grip and didn't play aggressively, gave no information that I didn't have a counter or anything, so I suspected immediately that he played 3 total, but alas, it was too good. I never got rid of it and he locked the board up with CounterTop and a couple of StP, 1 Counterspell, and 2(?) Snapcasters later I scoop as the writing is on the wall and I wanted to not get too downhearted by the situation. Not getting tilted is important.

G2: I win by discard and threats followed by an abrupt decay and a FoW on a Jace.

G3: I turn 1 DRS, counter his turn 1 Top, turn 2 I Shardless into Surgical and grab the top. He gets Jace, I can't deal with it right away and it punishes me by setting up an Entreat that I couldn't combat in a timely manner.

That was it, I don't necessarily remember how I boarded, but I'll leave you with the list.

4 DRS
4 Goyf
2 Strix
1 Clique
4 Shardless

3 Decay
l2 TSeize
2 Hymn
4 FoW
2 Liliana
1 Deluge
1 Library
3 Vision
4 BS
1 Pulse

4 Delta
4 Verdant
1 Misty
3 Wasteland
1 CTP
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Sea
2 Bayou
1 Trop

SB:
2 Surgical
1 Jace
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Deluge
1 Decay
1 TSeize
1 Charm
1 Library
1 Rod
1 Disfigure
1 Needle
1 Cage
1 Spellbomb
1 NoSB

The only thing I would like to change is NoSB being either another Charm or a first Engineered Plague. I'm leaning towards Plague in my local meta, but in a larger one maybe a second Charm is good, I really loved it all day.

-ABC

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Here's my last successful list, but it was metagamed for Denver, which is often combo heavy.

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

Here's my last successful list, but it was metagamed for Denver, which is often combo heavy.

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12 Thoughtseize? You really do metagame against combo!

How do you guys board against the most played decks?

I was thinking of adding 4x Leyline of the void for the reanimator, storm and lands matchups.


So i'm having this plan:

// 15 Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Fatal Push
1 Murderous Cut
2 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Baleful Strix
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle



Reanimator BR
+4 Leyline of the Void, +2 Hymn to Tourach, +2 Thoughtseize
-1 Maelstrom Pulse, -4 Abrupt Decay, -1 Toxic Deluge, -2 leovold

Miracles
+2 Hymn to Tourach, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Garruk Relentless
-3 Baleful Strix, -1 Toxic Deluge

ANT STORM
+4 Leyline of the Void, +2 Hymn to Tourach, +2 Thoughtseize
-4 Abrupt Decay, -3 Baleful Strix, -1 Toxic deluge

Lands
+4 Leyline of the Void, +1 Pithing Needle
-1 Umezawa’s Jitte, -2 Hymn to Tourach, -1 Liliana of the Veil, -1 Toxic Deluge

Eldrazi Stompy
+1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Murderous Cut, + 2 Fatal Push
-2 Hymn to Tourach, -2 Leovold, Emmisary of Trest

Grixis Delver
+2 Fatal Push, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Murderous Cut, +1 Garruk Relentless, +1 Baleful Strix
-4 Force of Will, -2 Hymn to Tourach

Death & Taxes
+2 Fatal Push, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Murderous Cut, +1 Baleful Strix
-4 Force of Will, -2 Hymn to Tourach

BUG Delver
+2 Fatal Push, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Murderous Cut, +1 Garruk Relentless, + 1 Baleful Strix
-4 Force of Will, -2 Hymn to Tourach

U/G Infect
+2 Fatal Push, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Murderous Cut, +1 Pithing Needle, + 1 Baleful Strix
-4 Ancestral Vision, -2 Hymn to Tourach

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Originally Posted by matunos

12 Thoughtseize? You really do metagame against combo!

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Heheheh, whoops...

It's always nice to post your main deck with your sideboard so we can work with total information. My responses will be in red, underneath your sideboard suggestions. Beware, I'm not a fan of having Leyline in the deck. Shardless is the very definition of grind and card advantage. Having Leyline fights against this ideaology. Understand that my suggestions are suggestions made because I'm trying to get you to understand the versatility of our SB cards and what we have available instead of Leyline. The only one I've thought about taking out completely is Library because there's so few times I want to see it in. I have one or two flex spots for my side that I meta game with.

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Originally Posted by Yanneuk

How do you guys board against the most played decks?

I was thinking of adding 4x Leyline of the void for the reanimator, storm and lands matchups.


So i'm having this plan:

// 15 Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Fatal Push
1 Murderous Cut
2 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Baleful Strix
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle



Reanimator BR
+4 Leyline of the Void, +2 Hymn to Tourach, +2 Thoughtseize
-1 Maelstrom Pulse, -4 Abrupt Decay, -1 Toxic Deluge, -2 leovold
Hymn should be in your main. If you don't believe you'll need there in the first place, it might not need to be in your list at all. Against Reanimator, I wouldn't use Hymn at all. The opponent could be sitting on everything, but not their enabler, which would put their card into the grave. Thoughtseize is ok because you can pick the card. Against BR I would side out AD and bring in cards that pick off their cards, Surgical Extraction, Nihil Spellbomb, ScOoze. Pulse is good and Deluge is ok. You kill their fatties with both of these, which AD doesn't. You can take out cards like four mana planeswalkers and some number of Visions. Don't take too many Visions out though. You're lowering your blue card count for Force.
Miracles
+2 Hymn to Tourach, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Garruk Relentless
-3 Baleful Strix, -1 Toxic Deluge
You need a Null Rod for your deck. I typically side out Strix, some number of Hymns and a Lili, in that order to make room for Needle, Rod, Clique, K. Grip, Plague/NoSB, and depending on their build, some nber of Fatal Push. Deluge answers their action plan of Mentor, Hymn is worse to top deck into, Strix is ignorable and doesn't offer anything real to the fight, and Lili takes out your cards as well. This is something to notice because they have a lot of CA as well with Top, BS, Ponder, and Predict.
ANT STORM
+4 Leyline of the Void, +2 Hymn to Tourach, +2 Thoughtseize
-4 Abrupt Decay, -3 Baleful Strix, -1 Toxic deluge
Out AD, and four mana 'walkers, Deluge, and some number of Visions. I wouldn't bother with anything that takes your until turn three at the earliest to cast because you very well may never get there and it's terrible to find them before you can even cast them. You need disruption and a clock, so don't take out creatures. I bring in Null Rod, Clique, TS, and depending on their build, Spellbomb and ScOoze. G. Charm is cute if you think they will go for Empty. They may bring in AD to kill hate cards or Goyf to cut the clock.
Lands
+4 Leyline of the Void, +1 Pithing Needle
-1 Umezawa’s Jitte, -2 Hymn to Tourach, -1 Liliana of the Veil, -1 Toxic Deluge
Out with some number of AD, all Deluge, Pulse,and Forces out. Needle, Rod, TS, ScOoze, Clique, and K. Grip. Extraction is Ok to bring Having some AD in is ok because they will bring in Chalice, Grip is iffy, it sort of depends on what you feel you want to answer with it, like their mana accel, Needles, Chalices. Once again, having creatures to close this out fast is good, while disrupting them with whatever. Force really isn't going to help too much in post games. Pulse is dead. Deluge is dead. I've come across Lands that will bring in hate bears and hasten their clock, but that's rare.
Eldrazi Stompy
+1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Murderous Cut, + 2 Fatal Push
-2 Hymn to Tourach, -2 Leovold, Emmisary of Trest
Honestly, this match up is easy. Forces out and depending on your four mana 'walker, that one out too. In Jitte, Push, another Deluge, or Plague/NoSB, or Library. Keeping in Deluge is ok because if they're inexperienced they will try to run you over and play out their hand and will be blown out by Deluge. This match is in our favor, so long as you understand your roll and play smart.
Grixis Delver
+2 Fatal Push, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Murderous Cut, +1 Garruk Relentless, +1 Baleful Strix
-4 Force of Will, -2 Hymn to Tourach
Out Force. Strix is good, You may never get to Garruk mana, and I like Charm over another Deluge. Even Plague would be better than Deluge. Reason being is that it sucks nuts to have Deluge Dazed or Pierced or even Forced.
Death & Taxes
+2 Fatal Push, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Murderous Cut, +1 Baleful Strix
-4 Force of Will, -2 Hymn to Tourach
Strix isn't something I would have here, so I would keep any copies in the side. Null Rod, Needle, Push, another wipe or Plague/NoSB, Clique, TS, Charm, K. Grip would be cards I look at.
BUG Delver
+2 Fatal Push, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Murderous Cut, +1 Garruk Relentless, + 1 Baleful Strix
-4 Force of Will, -2 Hymn to Tourach
Some have argued about keeping Force here and out with Hymn, and other arguing the literal opposite. I haven't come across this deck at all, but I would like to see Push, ScOoze, Clique, and G. Charm. Killing their DRS, or Forcing it seems good. Regenerating a Goyf that's been AD are plays I can see happening. Checking Goyf and gaining life is good, not to mention you can regenerate the ScOoze. No need to wipe here. They play the same creature package, essential, but you run more creatures. I would also remove your four mana 'walkers.
U/G Infect
+2 Fatal Push, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Murderous Cut, +1 Pithing Needle, + 1 Baleful Strix
-4 Ancestral Vision, -2 Hymn to Tourach
This is a fifty-fifty match up. As long as you can produce a clock and disrupt is good. Out with Pulse, four mana 'walkers, maybe some number of Goyf or Visions. I've sided out both and came up positive in both cases, so I'm not sure what's preferred. In with K. Grip, Needle, Push, TS, Clique, Jitte, G. Charm, Plague/NoSB. Hymn is amazing here. You're cutting out their few creatures, or their pumps. They play out of their hand a lot.

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Originally Posted by Krimson Viper

Stuff

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Hey thanks for your response!
Really helpfull!

Gonna try some stuff out. My list below.


My original plan for reanimator was like getting a leyline out and then play hymn's, thoughtseize/duress and liliana to exile all his cards.

Gonna work on an improved sideboard plan.


This is my current list

// 23 Spells
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge

// 16 Creatures
2 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
2 Leovold, Emmisary of Trest

// 21 Lands
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island

// 15 Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Fatal Push
1 Murderous Cut
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Null Rod
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle

Has anyone tried testing out Grim Flayer? It likely doesn't have a place in the deck with Eldrazi being as popular as it is, but it seems like a decent budget alternative to Tarmogoyf or potentially a more aggressive replacement to Baleful Strix (if your meta is light on Eldrazi). It also has pretty good synergy with Shardless Agent and lets you dump lands from the top of your deck as you get later in the game.


http://magiccards.info/scans/en/emn/184.jpg

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Originally Posted by m12167

Has anyone tried testing out Grim Flayer? It likely doesn't have a place in the deck with Eldrazi being as popular as it is, but it seems like a decent budget alternative to Tarmogoyf or potentially a more aggressive replacement to Baleful Strix (if your meta is light on Eldrazi). It also has pretty good synergy with Shardless Agent and lets you dump lands from the top of your deck as you get later in the game.


http://magiccards.info/scans/en/emn/184.jpg

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It could be a budget replacemant for goyf, but i wouldn't cut baleful strix for it.

Strix is a blue card for FoW / it immediately draws you a card and is a "delayed" removal.
It's great against delver and eldrazi wich grim flayer isn't.
strix could also block a griselbrand

have you tested grim? where do you think its good?

It just doesn't do enough. Where do you want a fifth Tarmogoyf? And in that matchup, I'd be surprised if Flayer were better than Quirion Dryad or Scavenging Ooze. If you want the filtering, how is Flayer better than Sylvan Library or Jace, Vryn's Prodigy?

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Originally Posted by Yanneuk

have you tested grim? where do you think its good?

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To be honest, the only reason I even considered it was that I'm waiting on two Tarmogoyfs to come in from overseas and had already sold my English copies. So in my case I ended up playing 4 DRS, 4 Shardless, 2 Goyf, 2 Strix, 2 Flayer, 2 Leovold for my creatures, definitely not something I would normally do. That being said, I ended up top 8ing a 39 person 2k. The digging proved useful at all points of the game, and I definitely used it to set up some clutch cascades. Flayer doesn't necessarily bring the beats as hard as a goyf does, but the trample was helpful sometimes to get in the last few points of damage.

So who thinks leovold is now a mainstay/staple in Shardless BUG?

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

So who thinks leovold is now a mainstay/staple in Shardless BUG?

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Leovold is a beast against any deck that plays blue AND also against elves (come on play that Glimpse of Nature :-) ).
It's just too good not to include.

I'm playing 2

It's also good against DnT and certain draws against Lands. I'm taking stock of who is/isn't and who will continue to what results. Idk if it's a staple yet, but agreed that it's really good in most things it can be run in.

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I'm honestly curious, where can I find info about Leo's True Name BUG? I have a feeling I'm going to be coming across it a lot at the CFB $3k and I'd like to get as much info about it as possible. What its shell looks like, sideboard, and sideboard strategies.

There are vids on YouTube of Reid testing it where you can learn lots from his explanations. Dark Bant is the tag iirc.

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People also keep forgetting "Whenever you or a permanent you control becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, you may draw a card."
When someone wastes you => draw card
When someone thoughtseizes you or whatever => draw card

People do miss the trigger on occasion, sure...

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Good looking out. And I'm not going to lie, I've missed the "You" in that ability a lot. A. Lot.

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Originally Posted by Krimson Viper

Good looking out. And I'm not going to lie, I've missed the "You" in that ability a lot. A. Lot.

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Before letting anything resolve I've been in the habit of reading almost every card to make sure it does or doesn't say target on it. There's also some strange examples that target such as carpet of flowers. Intuition targets as well. Also if you play vintage forbidden orchard targets. Milking leovold for all its value forces you to be more aware of all the cards interactions, it's easy to miss some. There's also some examples where you shouldn't draw like if you have one card in hand and your opponent hymns you.. or maybe there's a chains of Mephistopheles out? ;)