Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
Smashing with rhinos seems fun 😊
A few questions: why 0 grave titans? It fills a similar role to sigarda but its better imo (no gsz tho).
Knight errand seems better than sun champion (cheaper + pumps creatures).
Ajani seems weak? I might be wrong but I'd rather play something else
Skillerhino is very strong.
Sigarda is good against spot removal and lily. Grave Titan can't be GSZ'd for.
Knight errant is good but i want something to just win the game and thats what suns champ does.
Ajani has been quite exceptional. make 4/5 drs or 7/8 skillerhinos is amazing. not to mention finding for gas and in most matchups, the ult gives you more than enough time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
Apart from GSZ, Sigarda can't be hit by spot removal, which is a thing. Also, evasion. Besides, why bother with Grave Titan when a cheaper creature also fills the intended roll? That's the danger of cool stuff, which this deck is incredibly susceptible of.
100% agree with this man even though i feel i am currently guilty of it. :D
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
Skillerhino is very strong.
Sigarda is good against spot removal and lily. Grave Titan can't be GSZ'd for.
Knight errant is good but i want something to just win the game and thats what suns champ does.
Ajani has been quite exceptional. make 4/5 drs or 7/8 skillerhinos is amazing. not to mention finding for gas and in most matchups, the ult gives you more than enough time.
100% agree with this man even though i feel i am currently guilty of it. :D
You have a point about the titan..im not convinced on those walkers yet.
No love for titania? With fetches and arbor she can be devastating
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
100% agree with this man even though i feel i am currently guilty of it. :D
Dude, I cheat Griselbrand/Iona/Emrakuls into play with this deck so you're probably not as guilty as you could be :tongue:
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
You have a point about the titan..im not convinced on those walkers yet.
No love for titania? With fetches and arbor she can be devastating
main variables are meta and play style. i like the pw and they havent been bad so im gonna play them.
Titania requires set-up and devoted spots like sylvan safekeeper
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
Dude, I cheat Griselbrand/Iona/Emrakuls into play with this deck so you're probably not as guilty as you could be :tongue:
Ok, maybe im not on your level yet albeit i saw a bug nic fit pw list splashing red for p fires and nico bolas. My junk wiggled a bit on sight.
SIDE NOTE: I am 4 forces from bug fit to complete the nic fit base set on mtgo.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
That is pretty kinky. Makes you wonder if the list ran Ugin as well.
Seriously, part of me died a little bit when I realised I couldn't cheat Ugin into play via Summoner's Egg. The child in me wanted to do it so badly.
Edit: Speaking of the danger of cool things - Meren of Clan Nel Toth. 4 CMC Bolt & Decay-proof, Zenithable CA engine (especially when you have some experience counters) or a 4 mana lightning rod that has to survive until your endstep to do anything (ie. for that price we'd rather have a Rhino)?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Hey lads, long time no post. On the Meren discussion, on what page are you guys at: including on current builds or dedicating a specialized brew (with more creatures, intent, and fleshbag marauder)? I think her will be a one off in any build we already have, but maybe she's powerfull enough to be a 2, 3 of in a build dedicated to abuse her.
Enviado de meu XT1225 usando Tapatalk
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Just had an epiphany in regards to making combo matchups a bit easier game 1, and I think going for a quick Therapy into Vet followed by the Kitchen Finks infinite life combo from Modern can seal the deal against most lists ... or at least buy enough time to further stabilize in the case of Show&Tell and Elves. Funny thing about Legacy combo decks is that most don't win as (infinitely) big as Modern decks :P
Something like this for Junk ... maybe?
4x Veteran Explorer
3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Siege Rhino
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Thragtusk
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Primeval Titan
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4x Cabal Therapy
1x Thoughtseize
4x Pernicious Deed
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Path to Exile
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Diabolic Intent
3x Sylvan Library
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
2x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Taiga
2x Forest
2x Swamp
2x Plains
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath's Stronghold
You would still have to worry about OmniTell, PainterStone, and RIPHelm, and the pieces themselves only provide minor utility individually.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
And how long would you want to spend assembling that combo vs. TES/ANT..? 3+ turns..? Oh, wait...
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I understand where you are coming from but I believe that is a different deck. Also, infinite combos on mtgo are not a thing if they don't kill.
Meren seems fine. I will try as a 2 of initially. The value and Fact it dodges decay and bolt is huge.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
What do you guys think about boarding out Recurring Nightmare in an Abzan Fit (the list). I seem to rarely need it. It oftentimes seems like a win more thing too. Also I find it very seldom.
I was thinking of two option: Either highlight it with more ways to tutor it or just exchange it with some other glue for the deck.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dadadot
What do you guys think about boarding out Recurring Nightmare in an Abzan Fit (
the list). I seem to rarely need it. It oftentimes seems like a win more thing too. Also I find it very seldom.
I was thinking of two option: Either highlight it with more ways to tutor it or just exchange it with some other glue for the deck.
No pulse or paths ?? 2 e wit is a lot. Only 1 bayou?
Nightmare is either mainboard or not in the 75 imho since you are already doing a lot of graveyard stuff.
I think nightmare is only really good in the bug pod lists.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
No pulse or paths ?? 2 e wit is a lot. Only 1 bayou?
Nightmare is either mainboard or not in the 75 imho since you are already doing a lot of graveyard stuff.
I think nightmare is only really good in the bug pod lists.
Duals partially bc budget partially bc wasteland (i like a relatively stable manabase)
I really don't like pulse (i think it takes more skill and discipline to play that card than i currently posess) but i think often about including it. I will try it.
I like to imagine the two abzan charms fulfill the role of paths (while being flexible in matchups where i don't need a path, also no basic for opponent).
What do you think makes nightmare such a strong card in bug pod lists?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I would guess because Birthing Pod chains dump more stuff into the grave that recurring for value is more of a sure thing with the BUG pod lists, than with GSZ based lists.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Another reason Nightmare is so good in BUG Pod because of Baleful Strix. There are lots of situations where the graveyard isn't very crowded, and having a strix around lets you start pulling ahead.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
BUG nic fit pod is just value. you literally value your opponent out of the game like shardless but with creatures and cute sht.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Suppose I'll post my GP Seattle writeup. I had no byes, and barely missed day 2 by going to time on the last round (so 6-2-1, officially 6-3 as I conceded, but had we continued playing I most likely would have won for 7-2 and day 2). Not terribly bad given that I hadn't really even looked at legacy for a few years prior to registering to the GP last month.
The deck (List is mostly this):
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Scavenging Ooza
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Minister of Pain
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Glen-Elendra Archmage
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Birthing Pod
3 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
2 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
SB
4 Force of Will
2 Thoughtseize
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Envelop
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Notion Thief
1 Krosan Grip
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
R1 Rug delver (L 1-2) - Won game 1 even though I made a really stupid mistake (Nimble Mongoose has shroud even without threshold...). Game 2 Stifle + Wastelands meant I didn't get to play. Game 3 I got locked pretty hard by winter orb (not something I expected). Was close to stabilizing after an Engineered Explosives, but I was low and he topdecked a bolt.
R2 Burn (W 2-0)- The player was pretty new. Didn't seem to be running searing blaze, made mistakes such as immediately showed me his hand when I cast Cabal Therapy.... (didn't actually matter though, as I knew one card and had the flashback ready anyways).
R3 Reanimator (W 2-1) - G1 lost really fast to a turn 2 Griselbrand. G2 and G3 I managed to get GY hate with counter backup. G3 I landed a quick Nihil Spellbomb. He actually ended up reanimating my Deathrite, which was entertaining. 2-1
R4 BUG Delver (W 2-1) - Recurring nightmare did some work.
R5 Sneak and show (W 2-1) - G1 was a bit unfortunate for him, he was a bit unlucky searching for the second piece, and Cabal Therapy did enough disruption to get him pretty low. Eventually he managed to find a show and tell for Griselbrand, but I just outclassed him with a Grave Titan, and he didn't have the life to recover. G2 lost to a T1 Griselbrand, G3 the SB did enough work and won pretty easily.
R6 Reanimator (L 0-2) - Lost a long G1. Might have been winnable if I was better at the matchup. G2 I probably should have mulliganned, I kept a hand with only one piece of hate and it wasn't enough.
R7 Miracles (W 2-0) - G1 was long and complicated, he had active tops all game, but I was able to land a Birthing pod through Top+CB, and then disable CB with Reclamation Sage (and another one later with Decay). Would have actually lost if I didn't EE on zero the turn before winning, (he had EOT entreat for 5). G2 I Krosan Gripped his only top, and he laid down a blood moon that I hadn't been watching out for in my fetches. Was able to beat his followup Jace with Redcap+Phantasmal+Therapy Flashback, and slowly ground out a win with a couple Deathrites and a Strix.
R8 Burn (W 2-1) - G1 was lost pretty quickly. G2 was won on the back of a jitte. G3 was stabilized with Deathrite, then locked up with self Cabal Therapy for Thragtusk then Recurring Nightmare.
R9 GBW rock? (Goyf, Liliana, Confidant, Thalia, Stoneforge, Discard, Wastelands, etc.)(Draw) - G1 couldn't deal with a goyf fast enough and got wastelanded and such. G2 Had a rough start, but got a good enginereed explosives followed by Birthing Pod, then worked up to Thragtusk to close out. G3 went to time: I avoided a quick equipment-based loss with Therapy, then was beaten down to as low as 1 from thalias/deathrite drain, while he drew 4 or so extra cards from an unanswered Confidant. Managed to stabilize by Explosives then Deed, but time was called. I'm pretty much certain I would have won had the game gone longer, as I had secured a Birthing pod and turned Redcap into Thragtusk, and top showed me I would have drawn a Recurring Nightmare the next turn (Which would almost certainly secure the win in a few turns even through his Batterskull and any answers he could draw). I ended up conceding though; a draw means nobody gets in, he didn't really look like he was ready to concede, and there was a judge sitting there so debating would have been hard. I keep on thinking back on it and it still feels really awkward, I don't really know what to do in that situation. The next day I won FTV Angels and cubed, so I suppose things kinda worked out.
Overall seems to be a perfectly viable deck, I could most likely have performed even better if I had more experience with the format and the deck. If I made changes I'd start with swapping out the Notion Thief and possibly Jace from the SB: neither really did much even when I sided them in. The main seemed pretty solid, I wouldn't make significant changes there for a while.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Did anyone try Daxos's Torment from Commander15 in Junk Rhino builds? I looked very promising on paper during spoiler season - a 5/5 hasty flyer for 3B which "dodges" sorcery removal and kills Jace on the spot.
I tried him as a 2 of and think of going up to three with 3 Rhinos and 1 Sigarda of the top end cards, going down to 21 lands. Between him and Rhinos the deck is capable of closing games veeeery fast.
Other enchantments in the deck are 2 Deeds, 1 Library, 1 Recurring Nightmare and 1 Courser of Knuphix (used mostly to awaken Torments with GSZ)
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
No. Staring at a 4 mana enchantment that does nothing N turns in a row sucks the big one. Might just as well smash face with a Rhino and close out the game. Sure, the enchantment might do 5 to the face the first turn (if it connects) but the Rhino creates a 6 life gap between you and your opponent when hitting the field, even if it gets hit by instant speed removal.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
While this is true, the N turns do nothing is not to be taken so lightly.
(Ideal scenario) Play Torment, next turn play another Torment = then you are only 5 life points away from winning a game.
Also, a 5/5 haste creature does a lot to save you from a Jace lock, which happens every game against miracles (from my limited testing).
