[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

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Originally Posted by Sims

How has Peacekeeper been? It's something I've wanted to test as a board option in some decks, to delay Vengevines until I can find an appropriate answer, for instance, but i've been worried about tying up mana and the like. Hasn't really been a problem for you?

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Tying up mana isn't really the problem, it's being able to protect it. Peacekeeper won't work in decks running green, because both UG Madness and Merfolk often play Submerge. But in a deck like Uwb Dreadstill, it's solid.

It's not easy to decide which decks you want to bring it in against. Right now I would say Merfolk (but not W or R splash), UG Madness, Mono Green Survival, Goblins, and Dredge are all on the list, but lots of testing will tell for sure.

I may try to squeeze 2 Vindicate in the SB for all the random decks in my meta, because I don't know what I would take out of the maindeck for something like Rushing River.

Hibernation anyone? I couldn't think of running any less then 3 in this given meta SB. Also I think that everyone needs to be maindecking 4 Spell Snares at the moment. The card is wayyyy too good now with all these Survival decks running rampant.

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Originally Posted by Roodmistah

Hibernation anyone? I couldn't think of running any less then 3 in this given meta SB. Also I think that everyone needs to be maindecking 4 Spell Snares at the moment. The card is wayyyy too good now with all these Survival decks running rampant.

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Whiplash Trap is decent too, although more narrow. It only bounces Vengevine, that way they can't just replay everything next turn (and it only costs U!). However if you're splashing black, Perish is generally more useful, especially against GW.

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Originally Posted by keys

Whiplash Trap is decent too, although more narrow. It only bounces Vengevine, that way they can't just replay everything next turn (and it only costs U!). However if you're splashing black, Perish is generally more useful, especially against GW.

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Normally I would agree with you. In this case, Hibernation also gets rid of Survival and gets their Vengevines where they really don't want them to be, their hands. Hibernation is vastly superior against Survival than Perish. Although it is worse in almost every other case. (It also would've been good again that Enchantress deck :P)

Yeah, Perish is complete garbage against Vengevine recursion unfortunately atm. Hibernation like lord said not only handles Vengevines back to their hand, but it also slays out their Survivals...Mongrels etc etc. It's a complete board hoser. Also clears the way for Standstill to destroy.

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Planeswalkers [2]

2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
Creatures [5]

3 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
1 Daze
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Spell Snare
4 Standstill
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
Spells [31]

4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
Lands [22]

SIDEBOARD
3 Peacekeeper
1 Pithing Needle
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spell Pierce
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Wrath of God

So this is the list on which I think I've decided. I cut one Brainstorm for a fourth Spell Snare because it's just so good against so much of the meta and pulled Daze down to 1. I feel like Daze is generally too good to cut, but it definitely seems to be the weakest of the cards in the deck (which is seriously saying something). Also, contemplating replacing WoG in the 'Board with Hibernation, but Wrath is good in a lot of non-Survival MUs.

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Originally Posted by Roodmistah

Yeah, Perish is complete garbage against Vengevine recursion unfortunately atm. Hibernation like lord said not only handles Vengevines back to their hand, but it also slays out their Survivals...Mongrels etc etc. It's a complete board hoser. Also clears the way for Standstill to destroy.

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True, but they don't draw Survival every game. Those other games you're going to get beat down by flying [non-green] Mongrels and Rootwallas (or Goyfs and Knights in the GW version, which is the better of the two IMO). Those are pretty easy to replay [and retrigger Vengevine].

@Beware: I like your Uw version. I'm not sure about the Wraths, either. You might benefit from +1 Nought/Trickbind. I would probably up the fetchland count and add the 4th Brainstorm as well... it's just too good.

I don't really see the point of more fetch lands. The deck thinning is never as relevant as people seem to think and 4 provides the right amount of fixing just fine.

Brainstorm is great, but the fourth spell snare is just better in this meta.

The thing about a third Dreadnought is I would only be comfortable with 2 more Trickbind (6 total Stifles). Then I am back at square one trying to figure out what to cut and have weakened the control element by cutting counterspells. I'd rather have a StifleNought always with counter backup instead of more of them and be forced to throw one in front of the bus.

I'm not 100% on the WoG either (haven't gotten a chance to test that), but it seems like it could be really good against Fish and Zoo in the Jace slot. Something like Hibernation is good, but it just seems too narrow.

The extra fetchlands are wanted for SDT/Brainstorm. You could drop 2 Islands or a Tundra and an Island.

Like keys said fetches + brainstorm/SDTare just too good to pass up. The thinning is relevant in longer games and if you run counterbalance you NEED fetchlands to abuse it to the fullest like if CB triggers you look at the top 3 and the cmc isn't there you can shuffle it up with a fetchland, peek at the top 3 again, then maybe counter the spell because you just looked at 6 different cards probably.

The plan against VV survival is extirpate, pithing needle, and spell snare alongside FoW and daze of course. Or a super fast clock in dreadnought because they aren't like traditional survival where they pack silver bullets like uktabi orangutan to fetch up and turn 2 dreadnought against them is basically GGs most of the time.

I'll do some testing with some more fetches, but I don't really think I can fit another 'Nought and two Trickbinds nor can I condone the use of a fourth Brainstorm instead of a fourth Spell Snare.

Pretty new to the boards, but have been spending time reading this thread and some others, and was wondering why not use enlightened tutor over the trinket mages in the the deck, as it gives us moat SB and other 1 of that we can more likely grap as well as it finds counterbalance.

I have been testing it in the Uwb deck that rich posted with no spell snares and use spell pierce over it (just works better for my meta) and there have been games were i have counterbalance in play and go grap my moat/jace and stick it on top to counter there 4 mana spell, or a standstill for there daze/counterspells. Is trinket mage kept in as a 3 mana top target as well as being a tutor effect?

Also been running vindicates in the SB and are simply amazing in some match ups like the vengvine deck with taking out there survival and such.

I will post a list up later but i still tweak it to much to have a main list.

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Originally Posted by [PMP]Krevvy

Pretty new to the boards, but have been spending time reading this thread and some others, and was wondering why not use enlightened tutor over the trinket mages in the the deck, as it gives us moat SB and other 1 of that we can more likely grap as well as it finds counterbalance.

I have been testing it in the Uwb deck that rich posted with no spell snares and use spell pierce over it (just works better for my meta) and there have been games were i have counterbalance in play and go grap my moat/jace and stick it on top to counter there 4 mana spell, or a standstill for there daze/counterspells. Is trinket mage kept in as a 3 mana top target as well as being a tutor effect?

Also been running vindicates in the SB and are simply amazing in some match ups like the vengvine deck with taking out there survival and such.

I will post a list up later but i still tweak it to much to have a main list.

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Trinket Mage is vastly superior to E tutor in this deck because it's card advantage instead of disadvantage, and our primary targets are 1cc or less anyway (Nought, Top, EE, Needle, Crypt, etc.). The extra body is helpful at protecting Jace, or circumventing edict effects. Nought costs two cards, so the extra draw is necessary to match your opponent when games draw out. Part of the philosophy of the deck is that a 12/12 trampler will normally outclass your opponent's threats, so you don't have to devote too much card space to controlling creatures (and Moat seems worse than Peacekeeper in the right build, due to the popularity of Wonder and other fliers). Essentially, E tutor slows down the deck too much to be a benefit.

As you said, additional 3cc spells are also welcome because Krosan Grip can really ruin our day.

Hope my thoughts are concise enough... and welcome to the forums :)

I've been playing this deck for a while, but have taken a break lately and played Landstill and some other decks. It seems to me, at least by showings,been playing the that this deck needs some help. I've been playing the list from BoM, and its been working alright. How do we fare against Vengevine?

I'll try to get a list written up and going and post hopefully today or tomorrow with some more ideas. I'll also read through some of the more recent posts when I'm not in class :P
-Matt

White really helps with that MU since it gives you Peacekeeper and StP. Also, I believe spell snare should be an automatic 4-of in this meta.

I've decided Standstill is the worst card in Uwb Dreadstill. It's useless in so many matchups. Since my last posted list, I've made the following changes:

-3 Standstill
-3 Mishra's Factory
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculpter (3 was 1 too many, Rich had this right... don't like seeing multiples)

+2 Predict (extra draw to make up for what I cut)
+1 Dark Confidant
+1 Daze (up to 2 now)
+1 EE (needed another answer to resolved permanents)
+1 Wasteland
+1 Plains

Now none of my draw requires that I have a favorable board. Confidant is simply insane, the full playset was inevitable. The basic Plains moved into the maindeck from the SB, and now I'm playing a single Vindicate in that spot.

I guess the deck is CounterTop Nought now.


3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant
3 Trinket Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
2 Daze
2 Predict
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
2 Jace, the Mind Sculpter
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
3 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard:
3 Peacekeeper
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Perish
3 Spell Pierce
1 Vindicate
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus

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Originally Posted by keys

I've decided Standstill is the worst card in Uwb Dreadstill. It's useless in so many matchups. Since my last posted list, I've made the following changes:

-3 Standstill
-3 Mishra's Factory

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for me cuttin standstill is the right way to go.

Standstill can sometimes be a miss, like when playing against Merfolk who resolved an Aether Vial early. Other times, it is invaluable and one of the best cards in the deck.

The problem surfaces that Predict is, quite frankly, an awful card. For all this talk about Standstill being a dead card while losing, people often fail to realize that Predict is simply not good enough to save them from losing situations either.

I'm starting to have more and more doubts about this deck in the current meta. Basically, as soon as I see Aether vial for instance, I cant help but to think "gg". Goblins, merfolks, white weenie are all frequently played decks and I seriously feel I have no chance vs these decks unless I am very lucky pre-board. Post-board odds are considerably better than pre-board but that means we have to win 2 games in a row, all the time. Sure, we can use peacekeeper pre-board but that means countertop lock must be established or the keeper will get plowed by removals otherwise reserved for nought.

I'm considering just going back to normal countertop deck for a while...

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Originally Posted by Jackehehe

I'm considering just going back to normal countertop deck for a while...

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To what... Goyf? Goyf means you have to play green... which means Peacekeeper/Perish sucks... which means your merfolk and Survival matchups suck. And if you don't play with Goyf, you won't be able to win fast enough with just Jace + Clique.

Nought is good in this meta. Tribal often plays without creature removal. It's a quick clock against a lot of decks that will try to win faster or otherwise grind you out.

@ Rico Suave: Is Predict really worse than Standstill when it comes to drawing cards? My friends and I have discussed this a lot. What we've realized is that one of the cards you get from Standstill is usually dead, so the net draw is about the same, and Predict's conditional requirement is less demanding on the deck. Landstill (with 4-6 manlands) and tribal aggro strategies (with Vial) are just far better at exploiting Standstill.

In any case, Confidant is better than both-- that's why I'm playing 4 of them and 2 Predict.