Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Roodmistah
Not sure I like the 1x random Vendillion Clique in there. I'd much rather like it being either
-The 4th Spell Snare
-3rd Cspell
-Another DoJ
-Cut it for 60 cards
It just seems like you could be running much more helpful cards in that slot.
I have tested the fourth snare in that slot and it is relivent. It does haunt me sometimes.
Vendillion clique is in this deck and continues to shine because of how it shines with my playstyle. I like the soft counter premises that it has and I also enjoy the random win against many decks in this format because they either can't stop it or they've mutilated themselves to a point in racing for damage that all of a sudden it becomes a tempo race. Catching your opponent off gaurd with eot vendillion when they are tapped out and then following it up with an elspeth is GG most of the time; and this is where vendillion is truly better then counterspell as it acts as a multi tasking threat. The other thing that should be mentioned is that it does have synergy with counterspell and virtually every other card in the deck at some point or another in virtually every match. The worst case scenario is that you side it out against the stronger point removal decks in the format that run cards like fire/ice.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
@Moss:
I played "your" list but with 60 cards, 4 brainstorm and 4 Snare and 8 SB cards against RG and STILL lost to it...How do you win if you f.e. donīt get an early swords/snare?
Your not being clear enough for me to understand what your list is or what "r/g
decks your referring to. Be a bit more specific.
If your talking about burn or zoo both matchups depend on your hand. It's not something you can just wing with any hand.
Burn you have to protect your life total by making them waste their burn spells. Once you protect yourself with snare force backup against POP and fireblast then its time to go for wish pulse and end the game quickly. This matchup is incredibly important to get as many plains and islands as you can possibly handle.
Zoo is a variable archtype. Your removal suit needs to be 2-3 strong in your opener with low cc draw spells. Don't be afraid to take some damage to stp some critters in order to drop that standstill. Make sure to see if they run POP or fireblast. If they run either of those it's going to be obvious that they are more burn heavy; and if this is the case wish for pulse wins easily. Zoo has one distinct problem with their model and that is that they can only draw burn land or threats; so if you stop the threats they can only burn you out. This is where wish for pulse ends the game. Theres also a variety of sideboard options for this matchup but it REALLY depends on what model they are playing.
I wont go into any more in case im wrong about which matchups your talking about but I figure this is a good start.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
crz87
@Rockout: I've been running 2 Wastelands and find it to be color-optimum with 4 Factories and 1 Ruins. I find that 8 cololrless sources is too much and 7 is barely pushing it and optimal. I would rather have 4 Factories than 3 Wastelands since I have detracted from LD as a strategy in Landstill. I also run Vindicates in the maindeck. Are we both doing Vindicate and Wish in one build? I might be the only person testing that list. It has been good sometimes although I feel that a pure wish build maybe better, but having both Vindicate and Wish has not created too huge a problem. In fact, it's made my solutions more flexible in the MD.
hey guys,
I'm relatively new to this deck, the printing of elspeth made me pick up this deck ^^. And I pondered out a list so far with Cwish and Vindicate aswell( I our thoughts, since I like having a flexible deck as Legacy is the most Diverse Format in Magic and I've got no real home meta, so I'm curious about other opinions on such a build, since I'm not 100 % sure about it yet, especially the SB. The list I tryed so far is the same with these changes: -2 Cwish +1 ETutor +1 Vendilion Clique -Tolaria West + Eternal Dragon -1 Plains +1 USea -1 Humilty + 1 EE. I'll explain my choices on the bottom of the list, here we go:
// Lands
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
2 [GUR] Island
3 [R] Tundra
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [UG] Plains
1 [R] Underground Sea
1 [B] Scrubland
2 [TE] Wasteland
1 [EUL] Swamp (1)
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
// Creatures
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
2 [TE] Humility
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
2 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [REW] Wrath of God
3 [MM] Counterspell
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
2 [AP] Vindicate
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [U] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 1 [US] Planar Void
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [TSP] Return to Dust
SB: 1 [IN] Dismantling Blow
SB: 1 [IN] Teferi's Response
I know the Dual/Fetch Constellaion looks odd, but tbh I just got those and no money atm to buy the missing ones, also I'm often lucky with my colored-land drops so I can deal with that :P.
Also I pondered to add 1 Tropical in a Black Slot to get :g: for EE for 4.
4 factories 2 wastes 1 ruins -> 7 colorless are enough, especially with a Tolaria as 24th Source. I Tolaria West fits here since I have only 1 EE in this build and TW can get you a factory or wasteland for Crucible
SDT > FoF since the top is just much better in this deck since you can ensure more land drops under standstill.
2 Humility 1 EE, sadly can't find a spot for the 2nd EE
Crucible of Worlds -> I think IF it sticks it's 90% of the time a nice long time tool just as SDT and isn't said on our namesake "take your time" ? :P.
Sideboard is just pretty Standard atm I think, I'm not sure which spell to cut in the Disenchant slot, both seem to be very nice but I tend to play Return to Dust since we're not the only ones running ARuins :P. So there's 1 Slot left, and I'm not sure If a Path #2, pate #2 or tormod's/relic # 2, or maybe another Card ? Some cards I also have in consideration: Misdirection, FoF ( only SB as wish target),
Ok, I hope all I should tell is told, and now I'd like to hear some of your thoughts !
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I would like to point out that if you are new to this thread, you should probobly read at the very least the primer before posting as it would save you some time and questions.
I would also like to point out that we should probobly establish finer tuned for people to see and ask questions, instead of just post list and ask for help. Why not just check out better lists and test yourself. Saves us the work of having to answer a multitude of questions.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Well, I cutted Disk, Relic and Clique for Brainstorm and Snare.
R/G means Goyfsligh with Hellsparks and a white Splash for Nacatls.
I won game one but then failed at getting ANY pointremoval in g2+g3.
Iīm just wondering how your feeling is against those decks because you cutted two cards which are, in my opinion, very important to beat it (SS and BS)
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Your build seems to suggest that opposing LD is rare since you're resolving much more 4cc spells. In the right meta (aggro, non-wasteland meta) your deck will do superb. In general, 1EE is too little, and EE is your only way out against Bloodmoons and many other troublesome cards. Unless you're playing Intuition Landstill, don't run less than 3. You can run 2 but I advice not to. Relic is simply amazing and it's funny to see people board in relic against you because unlike what people think, Landstill isn't about recursion. That's ITF for you.
Personally, I've loved and hated Vindicte in wishbuilds. When my meta was more zooinfested without Wastelands, Vindicate was golden, giving me additional threat removal and ability to cut them off their forests so cat and apes were 1/1. But the past 2 weeks, my meta has begun to include TOO many LD decks, therefore Vindicate sucks. Play Vindicate if your meta allows you to hit 3 colors consistently, otherwise it's a dead card.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
@Cr78:
Why are you so worried about LD? Outside of stifle/wasteland the format really doesn't have alot of focused LD.
If you fear it so much run top: It solves all your land needs.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Lol moss, my meta is INFESTED with LD right now. 5/8 or 6/10 decks have LD as their main strategy. I apologizing for bitching on this forums about this unusual meta. I wished my meta was more Landstill friendly. At least my bitching about LD can give advice to those who play against it :P Yupp, Top ensures my Landdrops against such decks.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
If I was in that meta, I'd just run 6-8 basics and Eternal Dragon and proceed to laugh at them. Teferri's Response is a interesting choice in a meta like that. The first time I saw teferri's response I immediately went out and bought a playset. Granted, I've used them it, it's a good way to fight that meta. What part of the country do you like in crz?
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I actually used Teferi's Response 2 weeks ago for fun, and it shores the LD matchup like crazy. I was going to run 2 in the SB again last week but decided against since I thought my friend was going to play Elf Survival and Zoo, but they ended up playing Team America and Pox lol. So sad.
I stay in Houston, TX, USA. We've got a nice Legacy scene finally in the last year or so. The meta is not too representative of the current one. Our meta hates playing counterbalance, but there's always the ANT player and a couple of Zoo players, mostly aggro, some enchantress once in awhile, and me the control player. I might pick up a homebrew Control Slaver deck for next week or maybe play 6 StP in Landstill MD with 2 Wishes and more basics.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
crz87
my meta is INFESTED with LD right now
Sacred ground anyone?
Karmic Justice stinks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NQN
R/G means Goyfsligh with Hellsparks and a white Splash for Nacatls.
I won game one but then failed at getting ANY pointremoval in g2+g3.
No Perish?
No Path to Exile?
No Powder Keg?
No additional Humility//Moat//Abyss//whateverniceagainstcreatures ?
IMHO, you're losing a lot of slot in MB and SB due to CWish and other nice-to-have, while seems that you have lost the focus on the core business: keep the part of the table in front of you clean!
I also tried fancy cards, but what is needed here is steadiness.
Nothing else
Eg. Vindicate.
Vindicate is powerful, while a pithing needle is more versatile (and also recyclable through ruins), and The Disk could quite do same things, for colorless mana.
Vindicate REAL ADVANTAGE: it destroys also PWalkers and Lands
Question: do we need to destroy lands or PWalkers?
I don't think... so I use a needle, more versatile, recyclable and tutorable.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I boarded 3 Paths, 1 Perish, 1 Blue Blast and 2 Ajanis alongside with 4 swords 2 Wish 3 EE MD... Itīs not that I donīt play enough removal ;) Well, actually I believe I just got unlucky and wanted you to prove me right so I can forget that tournament :P
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I've run Vindicate for a pretty long time now, and I'm over it.
Vindicate is perfectly fair. He trades 1 to 1, costs 3, is a sorcery.. Landstill shoudn't use fair cards. Standstill is unfair, and so is Elspeth. All the removal is unfair, except for Vindicate. I'm running a Cunning landstill with MD Crucible now, and with succes. (5-0-1 in the last tourney, with 1 ID when I was 4-0. Won against UGR Thresh, Dragon Stompy, Zoo, ANT and Merfolk). Cunning Wish is even better at doing Vindicates job. It removes creatures at instant speed, kills 2 nasty Arti/Enchantments, and does some other pretty amazing stuff as well. I rarely used Vindicate to destroy lands, only when it had no other use (vs ANT or so). Now that Vindicate is Cunning Wish, the decks feel so much stronger.
@ The guys who run both Wish and Vindicate: It is overkill. I've tested it. Just run 4 StP, 3 WoG (or 2 and 1 Humility), 3 EE and you should be fine.
@ NQN: With that sideboarding, you either was unlucky or made horrible mulligan and play errors..
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NQN
I boarded 3 Paths, 1 Perish, 1 Blue Blast and 2 Ajanis alongside with 4 swords 2 Wish 3 EE MD... Itīs not that I donīt play enough removal ;) Well, actually I believe I just got unlucky and wanted you to prove me right so I can forget that tournament :P
:eek:
If you believe in Karma, to balance the "luck" you had, you're probably going to win the lottery AND to date with Megan Fox
Or..... you're Donald Duck, but that's another story.... :tongue:
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VonDoom
Sacred ground anyone?
Karmic Justice stinks?
No Perish?
No Path to Exile?
No Powder Keg?
No additional Humility//Moat//Abyss//whateverniceagainstcreatures ?
IMHO, you're losing a lot of slot in MB and SB due to CWish and other nice-to-have, while seems that you have lost the focus on the core business: keep the part of the table in front of you clean!
I also tried fancy cards, but what is needed here is steadiness.
Nothing else
Eg. Vindicate.
Vindicate is powerful, while a pithing needle is more versatile (and also recyclable through ruins), and The Disk could quite do same things, for colorless mana.
Vindicate REAL ADVANTAGE: it destroys also PWalkers and Lands
Question: do we need to destroy lands or PWalkers?
I don't think... so I use a needle, more versatile, recyclable and tutorable.
Vindicate destroys those problem permanents where as needle just stops them and puts a big sign on your board named "Grip me for the win" and permits you to put a EE on 1,. Also Needle can't act as a critter removal, although (€:vindicate) is slow and clunky compared to PTE / Swords. And color screwing your opponent is a nasty but legitimate way to control him/her IMHO.
@ Elf_ascetic : As you maybe read I work on a wish + vindi list, and I already agree with you, that you waste some space as some spots are occupied multiply, I tryed to avoid that in finding other wish-able cards, but this is still my problem with this build, and I probably go back to vindicate OR wish too.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
@ NQN: With that sideboarding, you either was unlucky or made horrible mulligan and play errors.
Well, my opening seven in g2 were:
3 Basics, 1 Fetchland, 2 Brainstorm 1 Top On the Play. I Think this is a keep.
WHen I died I had 4-5 lands in play and 3 Mishras left on the table.
g3 I had nearly the same but without top so I tried to mulligan this time. It all ended up with me unable to cast either Ajani nor Pulse.
I played AT LEAST 30 times against Goyfsligh at tournaments and since Iīm playing LS over 1 1/2 year now I donīt think I made relevant mistakes at all :)
PS: I strongly believe Iīm more of a Donald Duck...Whenever Iīm lucky, misfortune strikes back twice :/
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
maggot870
Vindicate destroys those problem permanents where as needle just stops them and puts a big sign on your board named "Grip me for the win" and permits you to put a EE on 1,. Also Neelde can't act as a critter removal, although it's slow and clunky compared to PTE / Swords. And color screwing your opponent is a nasty but legitimate way to control him/her IMHO.
Critters are not so a big problem, if they're tiny, I've 3 nice EEs for them, if they're big, I've 4 nice StPs for them.
As I pointed out, the "only" problem is "how to remove opponents PWalker"
These nice guys from Wizzy just printed for us Planar Cleansing.
Test it before discarding, just 1x.... it will get you rid of all these vindicates :tongue:
As the Elf_Ascetic wrote, we use only unfair cards, 1x1 gives no advantage at all... it's too fair :mad:
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VonDoom
Critters are not so a big problem, if they're tiny, I've 3 nice EEs for them, if they're big, I've 4 nice StPs for them.
As I pointed out, the "only" problem is "how to remove opponents PWalker"
Vindicate? EE? Pithing Needle?
Quote:
These nice guys from Wizzy just printed for us Planar Cleansing.
Test it before discarding, just 1x.... it will get you rid of all these vindicates :tongue:
Vindicates at least get around Force Spike effects.
Quote:
As the Elf_Ascetic wrote, we use only unfair cards, 1x1 gives no advantage at all... it's too fair :mad:
Yeah... umm... you know, 6 mana is no advantage at all, you know? Sure it will net you a 1 for 1 at least, but the fact it's 6 mana blows.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Vindicate gives you the kind of leverage you need when you're trying to make the iffy counter decisions that happen all the time with a control concept. The fact that it can hit all permanents means that you can parse very carefully the must-counter situations and hold counters for the points at which you'll likely lose the game if you don't have a counter in hand. The fact that it also hits lands just puts it over the top in a deck where handling the opponents land-based threats can be essential.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
P.S. It is feasable to run vindicate in the relic slot in the Team Awesome Wish Still list I presented.
Crz87: In an ld infested meta just run my model, but switch the crucible to the main and the relic to the side. This should help you tremendously if it's pure ld. If its a loam meta then dont change anything.
