[Deck] 12 Post

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Originally Posted by Chaam

I've actually just built a mono blue version (replicating mono blue tron in Modern) and will be testing it this week.

My list:

Artifact (12)
4x Expedition Map
4x Pithing Needle
4x Sensei's Divining Top

Instant (22)
4x Brainstorm
4x Condescend
4x Repeal
4x Warping Wail
2x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Force of Will

Creature (2)
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Land (24)
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Vesuva
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
6x Island
1x Eye of Ugin

Sideboard (15)
2x Dismember
3x Flusterstorm
1x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Spatial Contortion
2x Wurmcoil Engine

I'm testing this list currently. Although I want to try out several other versions a) more reliance on Thirst for Knowledge and playing MD Wurmcoils/more artifacts b) ponders/more tappout vs leaving mana open and c) multiple jtms version.

I have trops, Jaces, etc. So this isn't due to budget reasons, I just want to try a more control-y variation that can support MD Forces.

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You are missing a karakas... Wouldn't run the deck without it.

Hi, I will just share my decklist. You can comment or reply based on your opinions.

[26 Lands]
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
3 Wasteland
1 Eye of Ugin
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas

[12 Creatures]
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

[20 Artifacts]
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Grim Monolith
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
2 Coercive Portal

[2 Planeswalkers]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon


SB:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 All is Dust
1 Duplicant
1 Phyrexian Metamorph


Usually I'm having a hard time dealing with Grixis Delver decks and also Infect. but all in all I'm fine.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by cin

Hi, I will just share my decklist. You can comment or reply based on your opinions.

[26 Lands]
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
3 Wasteland
1 Eye of Ugin
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas

[12 Creatures]
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

[20 Artifacts]
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Grim Monolith
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
2 Coercive Portal

[2 Planeswalkers]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon


SB:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 All is Dust
1 Duplicant
1 Phyrexian Metamorph


Usually I'm having a hard time dealing with Grixis Delver decks and also Infect. but all in all I'm fine.

Thanks!

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I don't like the idea of City of Traitors for 2 reasons.
1)without crucible it's only going to provide speed into monolith and sphere early then have to get sacrificed because of the trigger. In 12 post you really want as much land as possible and city just doesn't play well with other lands, especially if you are only drawing City of Traitors.
2)no crucible so you can't even go back and replay them later. City is really better in metalworker style decks where you just need to power out a chalice at 1, then drop a metalworker and from there you don't care about your land producing mana.

If anything I would suggest thespians stage in the city slot since it can act like posts 13-16 and it can tap early for your 1 drops without being sacrificed later.

So wanting to add warping wail to the main to help fight combo etc... Looking toward this..

3x warping wail
2x candelabra of tawnos
3x Green sun zenith
3x pithing needle
4x ancient stirrings or explore (not sure which I want yet)
4x primeval titan
1x kozilek
1x ulamog
1x emrakul
1x ugin
3x crop rotation
3x living wish
3x sensei diving top
1x oracle of mul daya
1x knight of the reliquary
1x veteran explorer
1x dryad arbor
4x cloudpost
4x glimmer post
4x windswept heath
3x forest
1x plains
1x karakas
2x savannah
1x maze of ith
3x vesuva
1x eye of ugin
SB: 1 Peacekeeper
SB: 1 Vesuva
SB: 1 Warping wail
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 1 Magus of the Tabernacle
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Bane of Progress
SB: 1 Platinum Emperion

Played this list yesterday:

//Creatures
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Primeval Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

//Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Crop Rotation
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Warping Wail
3 Show and Tell
3 Terminus
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

//Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Vesuva

//Sideboard
3 Krosan Grip
1 Platinum Emperion
3 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Moment's Peace
1 Glacial Chasm

5 rounds, 2:2:1. Losses against Merfolk (G1 Mulligan to 4) and Aggro Loam, Draw against Elves (1:1), Wins against Miracles and Omnitell. Not the best result, but Terminus was insane! No mana problems, and it improved the aggro MUs a lot (yes, I know, I lost those games, but Terminus was still great). Maybe I will try Peacekeeper in the SB as well, really like that card

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

I don't like the idea of City of Traitors for 2 reasons.
1)without crucible it's only going to provide speed into monolith and sphere early then have to get sacrificed because of the trigger. In 12 post you really want as much land as possible and city just doesn't play well with other lands, especially if you are only drawing City of Traitors.
2)no crucible so you can't even go back and replay them later. City is really better in metalworker style decks where you just need to power out a chalice at 1, then drop a metalworker and from there you don't care about your land producing mana.

If anything I would suggest thespians stage in the city slot since it can act like posts 13-16 and it can tap early for your 1 drops without being sacrificed later.

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Hi do you think wastelands here is good? given the fact that the pithing needles on the main deck usually is named for wasteland itself. I think your suggestion for the city of traitors is good. given that I dont have any CoW on this list.

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Originally Posted by Postman

Played this list yesterday:

//Creatures
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Primeval Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

//Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Crop Rotation
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Warping Wail
3 Show and Tell
3 Terminus
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

//Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
3 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Vesuva

//Sideboard
3 Krosan Grip
1 Platinum Emperion
3 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Moment's Peace
1 Glacial Chasm

5 rounds, 2:2:1. Losses against Merfolk (G1 Mulligan to 4) and Aggro Loam, Draw against Elves (1:1), Wins against Miracles and Omnitell. Not the best result, but Terminus was insane! No mana problems, and it improved the aggro MUs a lot (yes, I know, I lost those games, but Terminus was still great). Maybe I will try Peacekeeper in the SB as well, really like that card

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impressive, my list is 95% identical. I suppose you lost with aggro loam 'cause he put chalice on turn 1/2.......
terminus is OP: 7 times over 10 saved my life, 2 times was useless, 1 I had no white mana to cast it. It's a solid confirmation.
Pacekeeper is very nice, but he is good only against infect.......he dies to bolt, decay, StP, everything......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cin

Hi do you think wastelands here is good? given the fact that the pithing needles on the main deck usually is named for wasteland itself. I think your suggestion for the city of traitors is good. given that I dont have any CoW on this list.

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I would much sooner run eldrazi temple just because it produces mana early, can stick around and produces 2 mana for your eldrazi spells.

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

I would much sooner run eldrazi temple just because it produces mana early, can stick around and produces 2 mana for your eldrazi spells.

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I wouldn't run either. Maybe the monogreen/colorless builds have room for a few more lands, but the 2+ color versions definitely do not. By the time you run a full package of cloudposts and glimmerposts, you're at 8. Then usually 1-2 vesuva, 1-2 cavern of souls, that's 11, say. +1 for Karakas, 12. Basics (generally forest + island + wastes) is 15, Eye of Ugin is 16, 4 fetches and duels, 24. Then you've gotta consider Tabernacle, Bojuka Bog and Glacial Chasm, in addition to Sea-Gate Wreckage and Thespian's Stage, all utility lands that can see play in the main or the side.

I just don't see what Wasteland does for us. We have no clock to support it, and there's really not any lands aside from Inkmoth Nexus that I can really see being a problem. Plus, I want to land Needle on Wasteland like 90% of the time, so I'm killing my own card in that scenario.

Eldrazi Temple generates less mana than my other lands, frankly. It doesn't do anything to help accelerate a Titan or any spell other than Thought-Knot Seer (which is a sideboard card in a lot of builds), and really doesn't help all that much for the big Eldrazi comparatively. I'd rather have the utility of a Sea-Gate Wreckage or a Thespian's Stage than the edge cases where a temple does anything for me, frankly.

So I haven't played my mono blue list yet but made some changes and will try the deck out later this week/early next week.

New list:

Creatures (6)
4x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Artifact (12)
4x Expedition Map
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Pithing Needle

Instant (16)
4X Brainstorm
4x Repeal
4x Warping Wail
4x Thirst for Knowledge

Land (26)
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Vesuva
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
7x Island
1x Karakas
1x Eye of Ugin

Sideboard (15)
3x Flusterstorm
3x Mindbreak Trap
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Spatial Contortion
2x Dismember

What do you guys think? Does it have legs? Or do you believe it is just strictly worse than the traditional UG build?

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Originally Posted by Corazu

I wouldn't run either. Maybe the monogreen/colorless builds have room for a few more lands, but the 2+ color versions definitely do not. By the time you run a full package of cloudposts and glimmerposts, you're at 8. Then usually 1-2 vesuva, 1-2 cavern of souls, that's 11, say. +1 for Karakas, 12. Basics (generally forest + island + wastes) is 15, Eye of Ugin is 16, 4 fetches and duels, 24. Then you've gotta consider Tabernacle, Bojuka Bog and Glacial Chasm, in addition to Sea-Gate Wreckage and Thespian's Stage, all utility lands that can see play in the main or the side.

I just don't see what Wasteland does for us. We have no clock to support it, and there's really not any lands aside from Inkmoth Nexus that I can really see being a problem. Plus, I want to land Needle on Wasteland like 90% of the time, so I'm killing my own card in that scenario.

Eldrazi Temple generates less mana than my other lands, frankly. It doesn't do anything to help accelerate a Titan or any spell other than Thought-Knot Seer (which is a sideboard card in a lot of builds), and really doesn't help all that much for the big Eldrazi comparatively. I'd rather have the utility of a Sea-Gate Wreckage or a Thespian's Stage than the edge cases where a temple does anything for me, frankly.

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The user and I are talking about a colorless build so I'm not sure what your first point is trying to prove.

The pithing needle point against wasteland has already been brought up.

Stage has already been suggested as well. Although Sea-Gate Wreckage as a 1 or 2 of may not be a bad idea. His list does have the ability to tutor it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chaam

So I haven't played my mono blue list yet but made some changes and will try the deck out later this week/early next week.

New list:

Creatures (6)
4x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Artifact (12)
4x Expedition Map
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Pithing Needle

Instant (16)
4X Brainstorm
4x Repeal
4x Warping Wail
4x Thirst for Knowledge

Land (26)
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Vesuva
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
7x Island
1x Karakas
1x Eye of Ugin

Sideboard (15)
3x Flusterstorm
3x Mindbreak Trap
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Spatial Contortion
2x Dismember

What do you guys think? Does it have legs? Or do you believe it is just strictly worse than the traditional UG build?

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I think Repeal took a big hit from the SoI ruling change, with Delver's flip side now being cmc 1. Maybe it's not as big a deal but it makes me sad.

I've been pondering blue myself, as you might have read in my earlier posts, and really the only card holding me in blue is Show and Tell. I do strongly think that Green holds this deck together, but I can see the appeal of blue (I'd probably try and slot some Wastes in there, 1 or 2 maybe in place of an Island or 2, also Sea-Gate Wreckage is a house - although with Thirst for Knowledge maybe not as necessary). I do feel like on paper it looks weaker than UG, because Crop Rotation is big, but you do have 4 expedition maps. It's certainly worth a test.

Also I think you want some Thought-Knot Seers somewhere. They're so good.

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Originally Posted by Corazu

I think Repeal took a big hit from the SoI ruling change, with Delver's flip side now being cmc 1. Maybe it's not as big a deal but it makes me sad.

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Woow didn't know that. This really sucks ass. Why the f*** would they do such a thing?? the stupid flip cards suck anyway, now they are making them suck even more... Agreed repeal took a hit, not only repeal, but engineered explosives as well. I've been exploding delvers with EE for some time now, makes me sad too. :cry:

If you are trying to run a monoU list i think you'd need to run the full SnT package. It's the best blue card in the deck, why drop it? I've been experimenting with monoU impulse build, but after going back to a version of rock lee's UG i rarely lose a game. i think UG is strictly better. RIP my FoW (which i acquired recently and are now getting a reprint - suck my balls wizards...).

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Originally Posted by Corazu

I think Repeal took a big hit from the SoI ruling change, with Delver's flip side now being cmc 1. Maybe it's not as big a deal but it makes me sad.

I've been pondering blue myself, as you might have read in my earlier posts, and really the only card holding me in blue is Show and Tell. I do strongly think that Green holds this deck together, but I can see the appeal of blue (I'd probably try and slot some Wastes in there, 1 or 2 maybe in place of an Island or 2, also Sea-Gate Wreckage is a house - although with Thirst for Knowledge maybe not as necessary). I do feel like on paper it looks weaker than UG, because Crop Rotation is big, but you do have 4 expedition maps. It's certainly worth a test.

Also I think you want some Thought-Knot Seers somewhere. They're so good.

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What is the sol ruling?

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

What is the sol ruling?

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SoI, Shadows over Innistrad. It comes with rules update regarding DFC's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hopo

SoI, Shadows over Innistrad. It comes with rules update regarding DFC's.

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Yeah. I got it eventually. after sifting through a ton of Sol Ring rulings.

Thanks.

Basically what it comes to delvers, it makes Repeal worse but EE better. It's a damn shame for Repeal but maybe the EE boost is enough to compensate.

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Originally Posted by Hopo

Basically what it comes to delvers, it makes Repeal worse but EE better. It's a damn shame for Repeal but maybe the EE boost is enough to compensate.

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What's your line of thought here? because you can blow up their delvers along with other 1 cmc? Maybe, if you don't have maps or tops in play? In this case you can't do it on your T2, cause you have to pay 1 and 2 to activate...

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Originally Posted by Hopo

Basically what it comes to delvers, it makes Repeal worse but EE better. It's a damn shame for Repeal but maybe the EE boost is enough to compensate.

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EE just gets different, not better or worse.
Con: Delver's cost is now X=1, which also the same CMC as all the trinkets we play.
Pro: You can now take down a delver, monastery swiftspear and deathrite shaman with the same engineered explosives.

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Originally Posted by MechTactical

What's your line of thought here? because you can blow up their delvers along with other 1 cmc? Maybe, if you don't have maps or tops in play? In this case you can't do it on your T2, cause you have to pay 1 and 2 to activate...

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It's bad for us and a stupid change in general. Why is it stupid? Because you'd think they'd print the CMCs on the transformed side if the mana cost is equal on both sides. Is the new Avacyn 5 mana or 6? I don't remember, let's flip it over!

Minus my griping, being able to Repeal a Delver for one mana and replace the card was a huge gain for us and a huge tempo loss for them. It also paired nicely with the very same Engineered Explosives that otherwise seems better in this situation: leave it on zero and watch as the Delvers somehow never flip, leaving them to attack with Fugitive Wizard. We run a lot of CMC 1 ourselves, and only Sensei's Divining Top can protect itself. All in all I don't think I'm very happy with the change.

I wanted some advice, in a few days I have a pretty important tournament, for me it would be the first time that I would bring Eldrazi turbo, which version do you recommend to take? are highly uncertain, write lists thanks

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Originally Posted by MechTactical

If you are trying to run a monoU list i think you'd need to run the full SnT package. It's the best blue card in the deck, why drop it? I've been experimenting with monoU impulse build, but after going back to a version of rock lee's UG i rarely lose a game. i think UG is strictly better. RIP my FoW (which i acquired recently and are now getting a reprint - suck my balls wizards...).

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I think I'd disagree here, he's correct to drop the Show and Tells in mono-blue. The primary target for Show and Tell is Primeval Titan, of late, you also have Platinum Emperion as an aggro stopper which can be Show and Telled, but it's not the main target for it. Without Primeval Titan, Show and Tell is rather lackluster, since the Eldrazi you'd rather hardcast for their cast triggers.

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Originally Posted by caprino

I wanted some advice, in a few days I have a pretty important tournament, for me it would be the first time that I would bring Eldrazi turbo, which version do you recommend to take? are highly uncertain, write lists thanks

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The correct answer here is to test the lists out yourself and see which one you prefer, and which one works best in your meta.

On a short time period I'm not sure what the best version would be, I'd lean towards UG personally but that's heavily biased of course. If you can give more information as to what sort of meta you might be expecting, it might be easier to pinpoint a color combo, if not a more specific list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caprino

I wanted some advice, in a few days I have a pretty important tournament, for me it would be the first time that I would bring Eldrazi turbo, which version do you recommend to take? are highly uncertain, write lists thanks

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There is no definite answer to this, as a lot of it speaks to your meta, what you prioritize as a player, and your own experience with the deck. For instance, there are multiple U/G lists. Rock Lee's decks are heavily tuned to his meta and tend to focus more heavily on synergy and how pieces fit together. TimHarding has, in the past, opted for a more toolbox approach to problems, running Trinket Mage and a whole bunch of artifacts that answer problems. Is one better than the other? I don't know. Maybe? But it depends on what you prioritize.

TheBoozeCube and I both run very similar mono-green lists, but I prioritize Sensei's Divining Top and he doesn't. Otherwise, our lists tend to be within 6-8 cards of each other. Is one better than the other? I don't know. Maybe? But we prioritize differently which speaks to our differences as players. I am also currently testing one list that runs Forcefield in the main and one that runs multiple main-deck Sphere - cards like Sphere of Resistance, Thorn of Amethyst and Lodestone Golem - in the main, and I've even tested Animist's Awakening and am thinking about Shield of the Ages. Any or all of these ideas might completely suck, but I haven't played enough games with any of them to say for sure. Ehhhh splashes white. Rock Lee has also splashed white for cards like Swords to Plowshares and Terminus. We've splashed red for Bonfire of the Damned and Fire / Ice before. I Bonfired one of my opponents at my LGS for 20 on his turn before, and the only other time I've laughed that hard was running Minotaur Tribal with Didgeridoo. (Aside: if that intrigues anyone, message me and I'll give you a list!)

The uniqueness of our deck - that is to say, the mana engine - allows for all sorts of possibilities, as it is one of the only Legacy decks where mana cost is not an immediate deterrent. It is a challenging deck to pilot correctly, regardless of configuration. I have played basically every single variant and every single splash anyone has come up with on these boards since I've been here. The best advice I think anyone can give you is to get on Cockatrice and/or XMage, put together various configurations people have posted here, and figure out what seems to suit you best as a player. Since Cockatrice and XMage are free, you can put anything together and if you find something you like, you can then make the investment in paper or on MTGO.

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Originally Posted by caprino

write me a list

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That's not how this works, there's several lists over the last 5 pages alone. I'd recommend taking a look through them and then trying to compile a list and ask questions based on it, keeping in mind largely what types of decks you're expecting to encounter.

We're here to collaborate with each other on testing and tuning lists, trying out cards and bouncing ideas off each other. We're not here to build lists for you, it's ok to come in here and ask questions and for advice, but frankly all you've written in your posts is "give me a list", I've avoided saying anything about it before but I can't now. We're here to teach you to fish, not give you one.

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Originally Posted by caprino

I was looking for some advice to start playing this type of deck ... I did not make me write a list for me

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No, but it's the content of almost every one of your posts.

Here. Four lists just from me, not counting anyone else. Pick one.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...098#post923098
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...111#post928111
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...738#post932738
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...214#post934214

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

No, but it's the content of almost every one of your posts.

Here. Four lists just from me, not counting anyone else. Pick one.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...098#post923098
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...111#post928111
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...738#post932738
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...214#post934214

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thanks..I can write anything else because it's just that this kind of game deck ... I'll let the report in the days after the tournament

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

Going to be streaming some mono-green Post live on Cockatrice in a few minutes. Set sail for fail!

http://www.twitch.tv/zotmaster

EDIT: Mostly bad beats today, played a lot of random combo. Here's the list I'm currently testing, though.

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
5 Forest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Expedition Map
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
3 Crop Rotation
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Warping Wail
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Oblivion Stone
2 Forcefield
1 Wastes
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Thought-Knot Seer

Forcefield seems like it could really have a place right now. It has a lot of game against Eldrazi Stompy, Infect, and Monastery Mentor garbage, and it's another safety valve against Lands. Against a lot of other combo, though, it is considerably less good. Still, I'm keeping it in for now.

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I found very interesting the latest list ... I wanted to ask the 3 Thought-Knot Seer in side you put them in against that matchup?

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Originally Posted by caprino

I found very interesting the latest list ... I wanted to ask the 3 Thought-Knot Seer in side you put them in against that matchup?

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Anything combo. You can usually rip out a pretty important piece, whether it's Storm, Omni or Sneak. Thought-Knot can be especially strong if you bring it in off a Show and Tell: when you put the trigger on the stack, you still have priority, which means you can immediately jam Krosan Grip to get rid of something like a Sneak Attack or Omniscience.

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

Anything combo. You can usually rip out a pretty important piece, whether it's Storm, Omni or Sneak. Thought-Knot can be especially strong if you bring it in off a Show and Tell: when you put the trigger on the stack, you still have priority, which means you can immediately jam Krosan Grip to get rid of something like a Sneak Attack or Omniscience.

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Thought-Knot Seer is great for Omni-Tell. I would have had my opponent with it had he not been running (and had in hand alongside his Emrakul that I took) a Burning Wish (which let him grab Enter the Infinite from the sideboard). It was just too much to ask for me to also have Warping Wail in my hand to counter that.

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Originally Posted by caprino

I found very interesting the latest list ... I wanted to ask the 3 Thought-Knot Seer in side you put them in against that matchup?

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Why 2 ulamog and 2 oblivion stone..and 0 all is dust?

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Originally Posted by caprino

Why 2 ulamog and 2 oblivion stone..and 0 all is dust?

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I can't speak for him, especially on the Ulamog - but Ugin generally fills the All is Dust role, and Oblivion Stone also serves purpose in that regard. OStone helps now specifically against Eldrazi, which Ugin (or All is Dust) do nothing against, since they're colorless.

Ulamog is a good effect, having a 2nd when you have room (which monogreen does more than the 2 or 3 color builds) is not bad, especially since the first one can be stripped from your hand with little way to get it back into the deck to be drawn/tutored again.

For all of you who are on the Gw build. Did u consider 'Retribution of the Meek' for the eldrazi mu's?

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Originally Posted by Corazu

I can't speak for him, especially on the Ulamog - but Ugin generally fills the All is Dust role, and Oblivion Stone also serves purpose in that regard. OStone helps now specifically against Eldrazi, which Ugin (or All is Dust) do nothing against, since they're colorless.

Ulamog is a good effect, having a 2nd when you have room (which monogreen does more than the 2 or 3 color builds) is not bad, especially since the first one can be stripped from your hand with little way to get it back into the deck to be drawn/tutored again.

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Mostly this. While All is Dust is either 1 mana cheaper (or 3 with Eye), Ugin sticks around and almost always wins the game out of that spot. With a very small number of exceptions - like Griselbrand or Inkwell Leviathan - Ugin takes care of everything AiD does with the added bonus of continuing to wipe out your opponent's attempts to rebuild.

Oblivion Stone and Ratchet Bomb are my current ideas in trying to address threats like Eldrazi, Infect, or Monastery Mentor and Young Pyromancer tokens. Stone is probably stronger overall, but Bomb can kill tokens immediately.

Ulamog is my most commonly tutored-for Eldrazi unless I just happen to have Emrakul mana. Exiling two is always powerful and leads to a huge, immediate change in the board state.

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

Mostly this. While All is Dust is either 1 mana cheaper (or 3 with Eye), Ugin sticks around and almost always wins the game out of that spot. With a very small number of exceptions - like Griselbrand or Inkwell Leviathan - Ugin takes care of everything AiD does with the added bonus of continuing to wipe out your opponent's attempts to rebuild.

Oblivion Stone and Ratchet Bomb are my current ideas in trying to address threats like Eldrazi, Infect, or Monastery Mentor and Young Pyromancer tokens. Stone is probably stronger overall, but Bomb can kill tokens immediately.

Ulamog is my most commonly tutored-for Eldrazi unless I just happen to have Emrakul mana. Exiling two is always powerful and leads to a huge, immediate change in the board state.

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I prefer to run a split between Ugin/Dust. In addition to the differences above, the fact that they are different cards has value: Meddling Mage, Pithing Needle, Cabal Therapy, Surgical Extraction, etc.. I split to hedge my bets.

It's also a meta call. Ugin is better in a vacuum, but Dust is better against Elves (faster, kills Craterhoof if you can survive to untap), Sneak & Show, Reanimator, and occasionally Enchantress (sometimes run Suppression Field, which makes a cast + immediate activation more expensive).


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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

I prefer to run a split between Ugin/Dust. In addition to the differences above, the fact that they are different cards has value: Meddling Mage, Pithing Needle, Cabal Therapy, Surgical Extraction, etc.. I split to hedge my bets.

It's also a meta call. Ugin is better in a vacuum, but Dust is better against Elves (faster, kills Craterhoof if you can survive to untap), Sneak & Show, Reanimator, and occasionally Enchantress (sometimes run Suppression Field, which makes a cast + immediate activation more expensive).

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Exactly. I changed an Oblivion Stone to an All is Dust after having too many Phyrexian Revokers neutralize my board wipes. All is Dust will always do what you want it to if it resolves, while Ugin and Stone do not.

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Originally Posted by cherson

For all of you who are on the Gw build. Did u consider 'Retribution of the Meek' for the eldrazi mu's?

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I've never even seen that card before. Looks good, though. How much of a drawback do you think its inability to kill Mimics would be?

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Originally Posted by Corazu

I think Repeal took a big hit from the SoI ruling change, with Delver's flip side now being cmc 1. Maybe it's not as big a deal but it makes me sad.

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Wow, this is the first that I've heard of this rule change. It makes me sad, because I have always been a fan of some number of Repeals in this deck, mostly for bouncing flipped Delvers but also for keeping up the blue card count for the sideboard Force of Wills that I have yet to abandon. Now I must find a suitable blue replacement for the maindeck. Stifle/Trickbind?

Is this rule change in effect right now or only when SoI gets released?

Yep, i've been finding Ostone a lackluster myself, pithing needle, phyrexian revoker or just abrupt decay. i still run one in the board for the eldrazi menace, but not sure i'm going to keep it in. Silent arbiter goes a long way in that match-up and several others -> elves and such things... i'm liking him more and more - tutorable, fits the curve, plays nicely with the new kozilek (when on rare occasions you get both on the field), chumps tarmo easily, bolt proof, abrupt proof, ... what's not to like about him?

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Originally Posted by k_omega

Exactly. I changed an Oblivion Stone to an All is Dust after having too many Phyrexian Revokers neutralize my board wipes. All is Dust will always do what you want it to if it resolves, while Ugin and Stone do not.


I've never even seen that card before. Looks good, though. How much of a drawback do you think its inability to kill Mimics would be?

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I do the same for the exact the same reasons. I currently play two ugin and one all is dust.

Concerning the Meek card, I couldn't test it so far but depending whether you are running top or not one should be enough, maybe two depending on how strong eldrazi will be in the near future.

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Originally Posted by Morden

impressive, my list is 95% identical. I suppose you lost with aggro loam 'cause he put chalice on turn 1/2.......
terminus is OP: 7 times over 10 saved my life, 2 times was useless, 1 I had no white mana to cast it. It's a solid confirmation.
Pacekeeper is very nice, but he is good only against infect.......he dies to bolt, decay, StP, everything......

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Lost to aggro loam because almost every card in his deck is at least good against me :frown: Wasteland, Lilly, KotR, Decay, Chalice...Really don't like this MU.
Will have to work on the Elves MU as well. Reclamation Sage is not my best friend these days...How do other players fight Elves?

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Originally Posted by Postman

Lost to aggro loam because almost every card in his deck is at least good against me :frown: Wasteland, Lilly, KotR, Decay, Chalice...Really don't like this MU.
Will have to work on the Elves MU as well. Reclamation Sage is not my best friend these days...How do other players fight Elves?

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I understand, Aggro Loam in general is a bad matchup.
elves is quite easy if you play ugw: mainboard I have 1 StP, 2 Swan Song (very very important also against combo, they are my only chance to win g1), 2 platinum emperion (yes, it dies to sage, but they have to find it or a GSZ, or waste a natural order....not the best card, but it gives you some turns), 3 terminus, 1 ugin (without wasteland is easy to have tons of fast mana).
Post side 1 glacial chasm, 2 trinisphere.