Yup just realized this. That's how much of a genius I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
EDIT: So yeah, I now have 1 whole point.
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Yup just realized this. That's how much of a genius I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte
EDIT: So yeah, I now have 1 whole point.
Thanks guys. When in doubt, I play t1 sphere of Resistance like always.
1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek
3 2/2s lose to 2/2, 3/3, 5/3, and 6/4 even with a 6 damage headstart. WW 6-0
2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus
You can’t cast liege. WW 6-0
3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold
No 4 drops allowed.. WW 6-0
4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile
artifacts.... LL 0-6
5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage
I explained why I went to double a tangle to beat double burglar rat WW 6-0
6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem
Me
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan
PseudoMirror WL 3-3
8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought
Artifacts LL 0-6
9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought
Artifacts LL 0-6
10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance
Pseudo mirror WL 3-3
11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought
Built to beat FOD, but not dreadnought :( LL 0-6
12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair
Unmask my shamans is good, but FoD my shaman doesn’t do much. WL 3-3
13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker
More dreadnoughts LL 0-6
14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask
Unmask beats me. You can FOD 2 shamans and clumping with a dryad lets you win the race LL 0-6
15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven
WL 3-3
16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze
Targeted discard instead of untargeted. WL 3-3
Expected people to play FOD or burglar rat instead of dreadnought, not both :(. Unfortunately couldn’t find a rg sphere creature.
13W 0D 17L for 39/90
3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold
1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek WW - A meek token effort, but you are still the best TO.
2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus WL - I should get there on the play before you can overwhelm me with your token army.
4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile WW
5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage LL
6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle , Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem LL - Let me guess, you sent the reply to yourself.
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan LL
8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought LL
9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought WL - Hero goes wide quite fast and outraces Dreadnought on the play unless you use Force of Despair/Unmask, which lets me safely cast Muse.
10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance LL
11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought WL
12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair WW
13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker WL
14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask DL
15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven LL
16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze LL
10w1d = 31 points
Dreadnought was obvious, but it turns out the best way to beat Dreadnought was not Windborn Muse.
The priests don’t die, you get one shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phasmoid
I stand corrected, my bad. Strange wording though. Why use own instead of control then?Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
It was meant as anti discard/exile tech.
11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought
I saw too many possible T1 decks so played Force.
For the land I was choosing between Dryad Arbor, Crystal Vein (beat Sphere) and Karakas (minor value vs Legendaries). My first choice was Dryad Arbor. Then for some reason I thought Arbor would die to Force anyway, so I dismissed it. I missed Tylert's line of just Unmasking the Force first... I also thought T2 Dreadnought would be too slow against some decks. Sphere + 2 Dreadnoughts seemed like a thing, so I went for Crystal Vein instead. Arbor would have been much better!
1. Asthereal (TO): Ouch, sorry your own round rules bit you here. 3x Memnite would have been better than Chancellor... WW 6-0
2. jhhdk: OTP Unmask on Stylus wins. OTD you play Tower + Stylus, I play Dreadnought, and if you play Arbor I Force them to slow you down. WW 6-0
3. Wrath of Pie: OTP I play T1 Dreadnought, you play tapped land, I attack for 12, I Force your play and attack for 12 again. OTD you play tapped land, I play Dreadnought, you go to 18 playing double Hero. (Edit: Apparenty 1 Hero attack represents 20 damage so I have to Force this). I Force and attack you to 6. You go to 4 casting Muse. I can pay 1 tax but not both, and they fly over me. WL 3-3
4. alphastryk: Nice tech vs Dreadnoughts. If I Unmask Path, 2 Dreadnoughts beat 1. If I Unmask/Force a Dreadnought, you Path mine and the other wins. LL 0-6
5. Phasmoid: OTP I play T1 Dreadnought and Unmask your Expert. OTD you can play Expert first, but with party size 1 I can just discard Force & Unmask then play Dreadnought. WW 6-0
6. Reeplcheep: 12/12s are big. WW 6-0
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Force of Despair stops your turn 1 kill. I thought you would be smashing with Chancellor of the Forge goblins, but that's only 16 damage and this is better! WW 6-0
8. dte: Came prepared for this. If you play Dreadnought first I can Force for free and then play Dreadnought. If you play Sphere first, I have a land to pay the Tax to Force/Unmask 1 and then sacrifice Crystal to play mine. Our remaining Dreadnoughts stare. DD 2-2
9. PJim: Mirror. OTP I Unmask your Force and play Dreadnought, which stares at yours (or I could Unmask your Dreadnought and lose mine to Force). OTD you do the same. DD 2-2
10. RoosterCocoa: OTP I Unmask Tinder Wall and make Dreadnought, racing Elf. OTD Defiance takes out my hand. WL 3-3
12. maxx!: OTP I Unmask your Force and play Dreadnought. OTD you Unmask my Dreadnought and Force can't stop Nether Spirit. WL 3-3
13. Serguei: OTP I play Dreadnought. You go to 18 and play 1 Dreadnought (to not lose to Force), and I Force it. Dreadnought attacks you to 6. You play 2nd Dreadnought going to 4. I pass. If you attack, I take the damage and attack back to kill you (tramples through Revoker). You can play Revoker but you cannot ever attack with anything so we draw.
OTD you play Dreadnought, I Force and play Dreadnought, you play 2nd Dreadnought (16 life). I pass. You play Revoker (14). Now you have tempo on me and can just barely survive a Dreadnought attack by 2 life, so if you attack I have to trade and then lose to Revoker. DL 1-4
14. Tylert: OTP I Unmask Force and play Dreadnought. You play Arbor (summoning sick). I attack for 12. You play Dreadnought. I pass. If you attack with Dreadnought I take it and swing back to kill you. So we stare.
OTD you Unmask my Force and play Arbor. I play Dreadnought. You play Dreadnought. This time I'm forced to trade if you attack, then Arbors win. DL 1-4
15. mattamort: OTP I Unmask Force and play Dreadnought to win. OTD you can play T1 Tidehollow. 2 ETB triggers (token & exile card). If you create the token first, I can Force to kill both and draw, so you stack the exile on top. If I Force now, 1 dies but the 2nd lives and takes Dreadnought from my hand. If I let the ability resolve, you take Force, then Tidehollow #2 takes Dreadnought. WL 3-3
16. silkster: OTP I Unmask Fiend and make Dreadnought. OTD you play T1 Fiend. Same problem as mattamort. You can stack the triggers so even if I Force somewhere I can only kill 1, then you exile Dreadnought and kill me with the other. WL 3-3
51 points (15 wins, 6 draws)
Not playing Dryad Arbor cost me a lot more points than the 1 draw I got from Crystal Vein!
The other decks I had were:
Total discard: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Priest of Gix, Sadistic Hypnotist/other discard creature
Goblin smash: Pendelhaven, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Chancellor of the Forge (16 haste tokens but not a T1 kill like Doomskar Titan!)
Sphere: dte's deck
Discard: Crystal Vein, Chancellor of the Tangle, Elvish Spirit Guide, Thought-Knot Seer
I thought with all the broken possible things to do on T1, I needed to play Paper (Force of Despair) but the meta played Scissors instead (2x Dreadnought).
This is WD for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serguei
When I go first, you can't force me to trade.
F: Dreadnought
S: 1 Dreadnought only. I Force it [S=18]
F: Attack for 12 [S=6]
S: 2nd Dreadnought. [S=4]
Now I can't attack. But you can't attack either. If your Dreadnought attacks, I take 12 and kill you. So you must keep it on defense to draw.
Owners and controllers are by default the same, but the controller can change while the owner cannot.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhhdk
(More specifically, putting a permanent owned by an opponent into your library is not good game design, so that's the real reason.)
Opponent has a Tabernacle of The Pendrell vale double sleeved.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhhdk
You are playing an unsleeved monoU Reality Acid stompy deck with tel-Jilad stylus in play. You just were eating a bag of Doritos and coke. You cast Annex Targeting the tabernacle, and then put the tabby on the bottom of your library with stylus. You must unsleeve the tabby to not have marked cards, and then you crack a Prismatic Vista. You then riffle shuffle your deck at least 7 times and ask your opponent to cut the deck. She justifiably storms out to key your car.
I can't decide what is the best part of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance
1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek You can't kill me fast enough and can't kill both of my elves. WW
2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus OTP I make you discard your hand, OTD you can either play Stylus or Arbor on T1 before I discard your hand, either way you cannot stop my elves. WW
3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold I discard your hand before you can play a creature. WW
4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't beat Dreadnought. WL
5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage OTP I discard your hand, OTD You make me discard Tinder Wall and Collective Defiance and Glistener Elf can't beat Shadow Guildmage. WL
6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle , Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't play anything. WL
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan OTP I discard your hand, OTD I die turn 1. WL
8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't beat dreadnought. WL
9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't beat dreadnought. WL
11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't beat dreadnought. WL
12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair OTP I lose if I discard your hand, so I play Glistener Elf. You have to Force of Despair it because otherwise I will kill you too fast for you to play Nether Spirit. However, I then play Tinder Wall next turn and can block your Nether Spirits forever, so we draw. OTD if you Unmask my Tinder Wall, I get you to 9 poison counters before you can play Nether Spirit, and then neither of us can attack. If you Unmask my Glistener Elf, I play Tinder Wall and block your Nether Spirits forever, so we draw again. DD
13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker OTP I discard your hand, OTD I can't beat dreadnought. WL
14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask OTP I discard your hand, OTD you Unmask my Tinder Wall and then I can't beat dreadnought. WL
15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven OTP I discard your hand, OTD you Sculler my Glistener Elf and my Tinder Wall. WL
16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze OTP I discard your hand, OTD you take my Glistener Elf and my Tinder Wall with Mesmeric Fiend. WL
17W 2D 11L = 53
lol I completely missed Phyrexian Dreadnought. I was aiming for a multiple discard deck that dodged Force of Despair, which worked as intended. However, I would have just done better by playing Dreadnought instead of Glistener Elf. I would have gotten WD against alphastryk, WW against Phasmoid, WD against maxx!, and the same against everyone else for 6 more points.
I was hoping someone would play Torpor Orb to hose the round rule. Hilariously it enables Dreadnought either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa
It removes permanents that your opponent stole from you with Control Magic and effects like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhhdk
maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair
1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek
OTD Force is live and kills your team. OTP I Unmask my own Nether Spirit, get hit for 6, then I get a 2/2 and a 3/3. I can hold back my Nether token to block and attack with my real copy as many times as it takes to win. 6-0
2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus
I don't think I can win this one. OTP I can Unmask Stylus, but I can't beat Liege. If I Unmask Liege (or kill it with Force whenever it drops), then I lose to infinite Dryad Arbors. If I try to Force your Arbors when you first play them, you respond with Stylus. Maybe I'm missing a line but this looks like 0-6
3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold
I can Unmask and/or Force one of your guys but not both. Windborn Muse races me in the air, and Hero kills me even faster. 0-6
4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile
Path to Exile! 2 Dreadnoughts! 0-6
5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage
Welcome! I think OTP I can Unmask Shadow Guildmage and play my land. You either make me discard Nether Spirit or I play it the slow way, and my 2/2s beat your 1/2s. OTD if you play Shadow Guildmage then I can FoD and end up the same as OTP. If you lead with Acquisitions Expert instead, then I just discard Nether Spirit and my land to the two triggers, and Unmask your Guildmage on my turn. 6-0
6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem
OTP I Unmask BTE and you can't do anything. OTD I can Force your BTEs, but not your Golems, and the Golems kill me before I can make enough mana to cast Nether. 3-3
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan
OTP I Unmask Tinder Wall. OTD if you make the whole team then I force, and if you take a slower line like Tinder Wall, pass, then I just force EOT. 6-0
8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought
I can't beat 2 Dreadnoughts even without the Sphere. 0-6
9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought
OTP I Unmask Dreadnought. OTD you Unmask my Force and then stick Dreadnought. 3-3
10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance
This is tricky. I actually can't attack through 2 Tinder Walls. OTD you can Collective Defiance me, but I'm not sure you want to. I'd get my Spirits before you get your Elves. If you just play Tinder Wall, pass, then to avoid a draw I would have to FoD. That lets you play your Elves, and then I have to play Nether the slow way. OTD I'm barely fast enough to have blockers in time (9 poison counters), but I can never attack. OTP I can take the same line and get my Nether Spirits into play at 6 poison counters, but I don't think that helps. If I attack with both, I lose the race. If I attack with just the token, a 2/3 Elf eats it for free and I'm just in a worse spot for no reason. If I attack with the real Spirit, you can just take it and start attacking back (pump whichever Elf my token blocks). So I have to stay back. There are a few other lines (like OTP I can Unmask Elf), but I think they all lead to draws. 2-2
11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought
OTP Unmask gets Dreadnought. OTD you can Unmask my FoD and then stick a 12/12. 3-3
12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair
This is me :]
13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker
I can't beat 2 Dreadnoughts. 0-6
14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask
OTP I can Unmask Dreadnought and still have enough time to slow play Nether Spirit. OTD I lose. 3-3
15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven
OTP I can Unmask your Cantor, and FoD doesn't stop my Nether Spirits. OTD you can stack the Sculler triggers so that you only have 1 in play when the first trigger resolves, and then you either take Force, or I respond to the trigger with Force and you take Nether, then the second Sculler takes Nether. 3-3
16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze
OTP I Unmask ESG and then you just have two 1/1s and lose to slow Nether beats. OTD your 2 Fiends can always get my Nether Spirit no matter how I sequence. 3-3
6+0+0+0+6+3+6+0+3+2+3+0+3+3+3 = 38
I massively misread this meta. Only 1 T1-discard-your-hand deck, no Vengevine, lots of grindy slow decks, no Dark Rituals, and a bunch of Dreadnoughts. My deck looks bad and silly. I wish I had played any of the other decks I had in mind.
Yep. I didn't even consider Dreadnought because it seemed too weak. It doesn't kill you on turn 1, it doesn't discard your hand on turn 1, it doesn't make infinite tokens on turn 1, and it's weak to the decks that do. Oh well! Bad read for meQuote:
Originally Posted by FTW
TitanSmashmaster Results for Round "Double Trouble"
1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek
Titan smash! 6-0
2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus
Titan smash! 6-0
3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold
Titan smash! 6-0
4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile
Titan smash, then Dread 3-3
5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage
Titan smash, then discard 3-3
6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem
Titan smash, then golem 3-3
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan
That's me with nongoblins!
8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought
Resistance is futile 3-3
9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought
You use the force :( 0-6
10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance
Titan smash, then you defy 3-3
11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought
You use the force :( 0-6
12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair
You use the force :( 0-6
13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker
Titan smash, then dread 3-3
14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask
You use the force :( 0-6
15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven
You use the force :( 0-6
16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze
Titan smash, then discard 3-3
Total: 39 points
@PJim: Although we submitted almost identical decks and ended up with about the same total, we disagree on a lot of results.
How do we WL here?Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
Whoever goes first Unmasks the Force and plays Dreadnought, then Dreadnoughts trade.
Or we could Unmask each others' Dreadnoughts.
Looks like DD 2-2
Hero of Bladehold attacks for 20 (4 1/1 tokens + 2x battle cry: 4/4 + 4/4 + 3/1 + 3/1 + 3/1 + 3/1 = 20).Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
OTD if Wrath plays T2 Hero, we have to Force or it races Dreadnought. Then Muse stops attacks and flies over to win.
WL 3-3
OTP we can avoid the trade to draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
T1 Dreadnought / 1 Dreadnought. Dies to Force of Despair [S=18]
T2 Attack to 6 life / 2nd Dreadnought [S=4]
T3 Pass / Revoker [S=2]
If S attacks with Revokers, Dreadnought eats them.
If S attacks with Dreadnought, take 12 and kill with Dreadnought.
S can't do anything, so we stare and draw.
OTD we miss the attack and cannot avoid the trade.
DL 1-4
OTP we can force a draw here too.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
T1 Unmask the Force. Dreadnought / Dryad Arbor x 2 (summoning sick)
T2 Attack for 12 / Dreadnought [T=8]
T3 Pass
If T attacks with Dryads, Dreadnought eats them.
If T attacks with Dreadnought, take 12 and swing back for lethal.
T has no winning line so cannot take any action here, and we can stare for the draw.
OTD we miss the attack and cannot avoid the trade.
DL 1-4
Thanks for adding that! It makes the copy+paste that much easier when players miss rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
Yeah learning, that Stylus is not really discard protection has been a bitter pill to swallow.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa
Amazing that I had not picked up on that in previous seasons where the card has seen play.
It never occurred to me that wording was to ensure opponents cards didn't end up in my library.
Now I need to find another way to add resilience for next season too. Bummer.
Otherwise Stylus would be crazy powerful in 4CB.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhhdk
In legacy, I played it before SDT was banned in an artificer's intuition deck as a one-of with avarice totem, it was not crazy but fun.
Conjurer's bauble might be what you're looking for. Single use, but protect a bit vs discard/counters/LD. I've used it, it works vs combo.
I fixed some issues with the "if I still have 20 life:" section.
OTP jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus
vs
OTD me: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage
You have to start with a land, since otherwise I win in the same way as when I'm OTP. I play T1 Acquisitions Expert. You can't play Liege or both lands on T1, so you will have 2 cards to discard. If you discard Dryad Arbor, then you can't play a threat or interaction, in which case my 1/2s win. That means you can’t keep both Liege and Tower, so you won’t be able to play Liege, so Liege might as well be 1 of your 2 discards. If Stylus is your other, then your 1/1s lose to my 1/2s, so instead Tower must be your other. In particular, you must have played Dryad Arbor on T1.
If you do nothing, then I
play Shadow Guildmage and let it stop being summoning-sick and keep my land and 1 Shadow Guildmage open to ping in response to you using Stylus
.
That could deal 1 damage to me, but shuts down Stylus, and then my 3 other creatures beat your 2 creatures without me taking any other damage. You attacking T2 just gives up 1 or 2 creatures for nothing, so you play Stylus T2. On my T2, I play Shadow Guildmage and attack with both of my 1/2s. Since one of your creatures was tapped to cast Stylus, you can’t kill either of mine and take at least 1 damage. You presumably block with your creature card and use Stylus before combat damage, but I also handle the cases in which you don’t. On your T3, I single-block if you attack, and you presumably use Stylus, but I also handle the cases in which you don’t uses Stylus. Starting on my T3, as long as the one Shadow Guildmage is not my only available blocker, I keep my land and one Shadow Guildmage open to ping in response to you using Stylus on your creature _card_. Stylus on itself or a token doesn’t help you, so during that time, the most Stylus can do is make me take 1 damage to kill 1 of your creatures.
If you used Stylus at most once before my T3, then:
You have at most 3 creatures. If you have 3, then 2 were summoning-sick on T3. In particular, I took at most 2 damage from your attacks. I start attacking with one Shadow Guildmage while my 1/2s stay on defense. Each counterattack costs you 2 creatures, so you can’t do more than 1 damage to me with counterattacks until one of my 1/2s attacks. Thus, you must block, which is a trade. Starting my next turn after that, one of my 1/2s attacks while the other stays on defense. Each counterattack costs you 1 creature, so you can’t do more than 1 damage to me with counterattacks until my last 1/2 attacks. Thus, you must block, which is no worse for me than a trade. Starting my next turn after that, my last 1/2 attacks while my Shadow Guildmage would block if you attack. Shadow Guildmage otherwise stays open as it did while I had other available blockers, so you still don’t have a window for Stylus to do more than making me take 1 damage to kill 1 of your creatures. That means I take no more than 2+1+1+1 = 5 damage, so my last 1/2 wins.
If you used Stylus both opportunities before my T3, then:
2 of your 3 T3 creatures were summoning-sick, so you attacked with at most one. If you attacked then I blocked. In particular, I took no damage, so I am 1 life ahead. If you attacked and I blocked, then that was a trade of 1 Shadow Guildmage for 1 of your creatures, creating the same situation as if that Shadow Guildmage attacked and you blocked and then did nothing on your next turn. Thus, I suppose you didn’t attack. I start attacking on T3 with one Shadow Guildmage, while my 1/2s stay on defense. Each counterattack costs you 2 creatures, so you can’t do more than 2 damage to me with counterattacks until one of my 1/2s attacks, and doing any damage to me before then costs you more than 1 creature. Thus, you must block, which is a trade. Starting my next turn after that, one of my 1/2s attacks while the other stays on defense. Each counterattack costs you 1 creature, so you can’t do more than 3 damage to me with counterattacks until my other 1/2 attacks, and doing any damage to me before then costs you at least 1 creature. Thus, you must block, so we trade again. Starting my next turn after that, my last 1/2 attacks, at which point things depend on my life total / your remaining creatures . I can’t have taken more than 1+2+3 = 6 damage, and if I have taken any damage, then you have at most 1 creature left. Thus, I still have 20 life or you have at most 1 creature left.
if you have at most 1 creature left:
If you attack, then Shadow Guildmage blocks, but otherwise Shadow Guildmage stays open like while I had not yet attacked with my last 1/2. Shadow Guildmage blocking does not give you a window for Stylus, so the most you can do on offense is make me take 1 damage. Thus, my 1/2 wins with me having at least 13 life left.
if I still have 20 life:
If my 1/2 reduces you to 1 life while I still have more than 1 life, then Shadow Guildmage pings you, winning for me. If you double-attack or attack when you have only 1 creature, then Shadow Guildmage blocks, blocking a _card_ if possible, and pings whichever attacker it didn’t block if you’re double-attacking. Other than those two sentences, as long as your Dryad Arbor _card_ is on the battlefield, Shadow Guildmage stays open like while it wasn’t my only available blocker. You double-attacking is the only way Stylus might do more than make me tap Shadow Guildmage and take 1 damage to kill 1 of your creatures. However, using Stylus then must be _before_ combat damage. In that case, Shadow Guildmage survives, the unblocked attacker dies, I only take 1 damage, and my land and Shadow Guildmage untap before you can re-play your creature. I would’ve taken 1 damage anyway from a single-attack, so using Stylus that way doesn’t help you. If you double-attack and don’t use Stylus, then Shadow Guildmage kills both of your creatures with me still only taking the 1 damage I would’ve from a single-attack, after which my 1/2 wins. I start at 20 life, you start at at most 19 life (due to my T2 attack), and I attack before you, so in a single-attack race, I am always ahead in life. If my 1/2 reduces you to 1 life, then Shadow Guildmage pings you for a win. Thus, you must use Stylus or block while you are at at-least 2 life and I am at at-least 3 life. If you single-block or use Stylus before you block, then I kill 1 of your creatures without losing either of mine. In such cases, I can take 1 damage from Shadow Guildmage and 1 damage from an attack due to Shadow Guildmage being tapped, but those don’t kill me, so Shadow Guildmage holds you off while my 1/2 wins. Thus, your only remaining chance is double-blocking without first using Stylus. At that point, if your Dryad Arbor _card_ is still on the battlefield, then I choose the damage assignment order so that the card is ahead of the token. If you use Stylus, then both of your creatures die while both of mine live, which is a win for me. If you don’t, then my 1/2 trades with your Dryad Arbor _card_, after which Shadow Guildmage pings your token. That is also a win for me.
(My edit only changed this post’s first sentence and the “if I still have 20 life:” section.)
I fixed some issues with the "if I still have 20 life:" section of the previous post, and updated my results post and the spreadsheet.
Me and mattamort disagree on our result. Me and Tylert agree on our result, but disagree as to why that's the result.
My results post includes my responses to them.
Yeah, I think I Forgot that you have double expert.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phasmoid
So OTP I just need to unmask expert. Dreadnought will smash through your blockers.
OTD, I can show FoD and unmask to expert's triggers and win through your blockers with my trampler.
We went too far. A 12/12 trampler is just too good :)
Matta hasn't responded yet, but your land indeed dies to the removal, so I'm pretty sure your analysis is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phasmoid
I'll be posting standings & bannings soon and hope to open the round in a few hours.
Standings for round 4:
1. alphastryk: 72 - 4,8
2. dte: 62 - 4,1
2. Serguei: 62 - 4,1
4. Tylert: 60 - 4
5. RoosterCocoa: 53 - 3,5
6. FTW: 51 - 3,4
7. PJim: 50 - 3,3
8. mattamort: 49 - 3,3
9. silkster: 48 - 3,2
10. Reeplcheep: 39 - 2,6
11. GoblinSmashmaster: 39 - 2,6
12. maxx!: 38 - 2,5
13. Wrath of Pie: 31 - 2,1
14. Phasmoid: 28 - 1,9
15. jhhdk: 24 - 1,6
16. Asthereal (TO): 1 - 0,1
Which leads to these bannings:
Ancient Tomb
Path to Exile
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Phyrexian Revoker
Sphere of Resistance
Standings for the season after round 4 look as follows:
1. Tylert: 16,3
2. Serguei: 15,9
3. dte: 15,7
4. silkster: 15,6
5. FTW: 13,6
6. maxx!: 13,2
7. mattamort: 11,7
8. GoblinSmashmaster: 11,5
9. PJim: 10,7
10. alphastryk: 10,7
11. Wrath of Pie: 10,4
12. Reeplcheep: 8,5
13. RoosterCocoa: 8,5
14. jhhdk: 7,2
15. Asthereal (TO): 5,6
16. H: 4,8
17. Phasmoid: 1,9
So Tylert leads the pack, with Serguei, dte and silk in pursuit.
ROUND 5 OF SEASON 10: DEVIANT LEGACY BANNATHON has started.
This round we play Persistence: All creatures have Persist (When this creature dies, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.).
Effects that prevent counters being placed on creatures don't cause creatures to fail to return to play when their Persist ability resolves.
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 5, so you can start sending me your decks.
DEADLINE: Wednesday the 16th of June at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Swamp, Dauthi Slayer, Black Knight.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S10R05 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition. :smile:
Is modern horizons 2 legal this round? Or do we have to wait for next season - I can't remember
quote: "The Modern Horizons 2 set becomes legal for sanctioned Constructed play on its official release date, Friday, June 18, 2021".Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
So it will be legal for next round of this season (and to be honest, this is not a bad thing... Oh boy some of these cards are overpowered for this round :)
Can Asthereal confirm my resubmission worked this time?
Thanks for finding that - I knew it was out there somewhere. Would have made a big difference this round!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
Yup, I got both PMs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
Confirmed. MH2 will be legal next round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
Deadline has passed, and by the looks of it I'm missing FTW and silk.
H will probably be sitting out because of holiday again, but if you have time, you're of course welcome to send 4 cards my way. :wink:
Anyway, I'll give you guys a few more hours while I do work stuff.
And we're as complete as we'll be, I think.
Welcome to our newest player, shiftyhomunculus! I hope you do well & have fun!
DECKS FOR ROUND 5 OF SEASON 10: Deviant Legacy Bannathon
This round we play Persistence: All creatures have Persist (When this creature dies, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.).
Effects that prevent counters being placed on creatures don't cause creatures to fail to return to play when their Persist ability resolves.
The entries:
1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Mishra's Factory, Giant Killer, Swords to Plowshares
2. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Mishra's Factory, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
3. Reeplcheep: Crystal Vein, Arcbound Ravager, Clockwork Beetle, Leyline of the Void
4. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Unmask, Subterranean Hangar, Shriekmaw
5. dte: Tarnished citadel, Death's shadow, Tinder Wall, Lodestone golem
6. Phasmoid: Phyrexian Walker, Swamp, Culling the Weak, Mana Skimmer
7. jhhdk: Forest, Tinder Wall, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
8. Tylert: Leyline of the void, Rishadan port, Mutavault, Chronomaton
9. shiftyhomunculus: Tropical Island, Young Wolf, Daze, Nature's Claim
10. RoosterCocoa: Subterranean Hangar, Phyrexian Obliterator, Faerie Macabre, Murderous Rider
11. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Wall, Narnam Renegade, Collective Defiance
12. mattamort: Leyline of the void, Unmask, Peat bog, Bitterblossom
13. Serguei: Peat Bog;BitterBlossom;Unmask;Surgical extraction
14. PJim: Leyline of the Void, Maze of Ith, Icatian Store, Karn Liberated
15. silkster: Tinder Farm, Narnam Renegade, Goblin Bombardment, Leyline of Sanctity
16. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance, Crashing Footfalls
17. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Badlands, Bloodhall Ooze, Duress
Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
You can also enter your scores in the Google Spreadsheet for the season which you can find here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
17. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Badlands, Bloodhall Ooze, Duress
I couldn't really visualize this meta beyond Goblin Bombardment combos, so rather than trying to play a non-Leyline deck that beats both Leyline & Persist stuff I just played Leyline.
1. Asthereal (TO): Duress takes out StP. Ooze stops growing at 3/3 unless you cast Giant Killer. Chop Down can't kill it but Factory can't attack through it, so you just draw by doing nothing (or cast Giant Killer and tap me out while Ooze grows to infinity). DD 2-2
2. Wrath of Pie: Leyline shuts off the combo. Duress takes Bombardment. Ooze grows to 20/20 and beats through Factory + Wolf. WW 6-0
3. Reeplcheep: Leyline shuts off your recursion and my Ooze grows to 20/20 over your guys. WW 6-0
4. alphastryk: OTP I play T1 Ooze. Ooze kills on turn 6 before turn 7 Shriekmaw, so you must Evoke on turn 4 to draw. OTD you can Unmask Ooze pitching Leyline and win with Maw. DL 1-4
5. dte: Leyline prevents Golem. You make a blocking Tinder Wall and start suiciding your life for Shadow, which races Ooze. LL 0-6
6. Phasmoid: OTP Duress takes Culling the Weak and Ooze wins. OTD you get T1 Skimmer but I get T1 Ooze before you tap me out, and Ooze races your Skimmer. WW 6-0
7. jhhdk: Leyline stops your combo, Duress takes Bombardment, and Ooze races those threats. WW 6-0
8. Tylert: Edit: My Chrono is faster than yours but I can't take advantage of it with Mutavault there. OTP my Ooze holds off your attackers, but OTD you can force the trade and win with the manland. DL 1-4
9. shiftyhomunculus: Welcome! I was wondering if anyone would play Claim to beat Leyline! OTP I play Ooze. You Nature's Claim Leyline immediately to stop Ooze from growing and so I can't Duress it. Ooze attacks as a 1/1 [19 life vs 24]. Now you can play 1/1 Wolf with Undying+Persist combo. But if you attack, I take it and attack back winning the race (I have 5 more life), so you must hold back trying to block me. I don't attack either and we stalemate.
OTD you play T1 Wolf, I cast Duress trading with Daze, you Claim my Leyline and attack me to 23, then I play 1/1 Ooze. Again I'm ahead in life (23 vs 20) so although I can't beat your creature you would lose by attacking, so you hold back to draw. DD 2-2
10. RoosterCocoa: OTP Ooze is 1 turn too slow before you stabilize with T5 Swift End at 4 life, then eventually kill me with Obliterator. LL 0-6
11. maxx!: Leyline stops the combo. Renegade can't race Ooze, but Deathtouch can draw. DD 2-2
12. mattamort: OTP T1 Ooze races Bitterblossom (you need at least 2 attacking tokens just to race BB life loss, but you're at 3 life vs 17 life at that point and lose to BB). OTD you must Unmask Ooze to not lose, so I Duress Bitterblossom to draw. WD 4-1
13. Serguei: Same as mattamort. OTP T1 Ooze races Bitterblossom. OTD you must Unmask Ooze to not lose, then Duress takes Bitterblossom to draw. WD 4-1
14. PJim: Duress takes Karn and Maze draws vs Ooze. DD 2-2
15. silkster: Your Leyline stops my discard, but mine stops your combo and the tapped land beats you on tempo to stop my Ooze. OTD you play tapped land, I play Ooze, you play Narnam, and Ooze is 2/2 before Bombardment lands. You can't beat me but you can stare with Deathtouch vs my 20/20. DD 2-2
16. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline stops your combo. Even OTD Ooze is 5/5 before Rhinos can attack, so 20/20 Ooze beats Rhinos. WW 6-0
50 points (12 wins, 14 draws, 6 loss)
Edit: Replacing Duress with Crashing Footfalls (2nd threat & green body for Ooze) would have gotten ~30 more points! I had the right deck type but Duress was a major dud here.
Me OTP: T1 = Chrono + muta. Ooze.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
T2 = port. You have a 2/2 If you attack I double block, kill your ooze and win with muta. So you don't attack. At EoT I grow chrono 2/2.
T3 = ...
...
T21 = I have a 20/20 and you have a 20/20 I attack you have to trade and I win with mutavault.
Me OTD: T1 = Ooze. Muta + chrono.
T2 = Ooze 2/2 attack (20-18). POrt.
T3 = You have a 3/3, if you attack I activate muta, block with both and grow chrono. You can only kill one of the two so you don't attack.
T4 = I can't attack because i'm one counter behind... so it's a draw.
4-1 for me?
1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Mishra's Factory, Giant Killer, Swords to Plowshares
2. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Mishra's Factory, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
3. Reeplcheep: Crystal Vein, Arcbound Ravager, Clockwork Beetle, Leyline of the Void
4. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Unmask, Subterranean Hangar, Shriekmaw
5. dte: Tarnished citadel, Death's shadow, Tinder Wall, Lodestone golem
6. Phasmoid: Phyrexian Walker, Swamp, Culling the Weak, Mana Skimmer
7. jhhdk: Forest, Tinder Wall, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
8. Tylert: Leyline of the void, Rishadan port, Mutavault, Chronomaton
9. shiftyhomunculus: Tropical Island, Young Wolf, Daze, Nature's Claim
10. RoosterCocoa: Subterranean Hangar, Phyrexian Obliterator, Faerie Macabre, Murderous Rider
11. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Wall, Narnam Renegade, Collective Defiance
12. mattamort: Leyline of the void, Unmask, Peat bog, Bitterblossom
13. Serguei: Peat Bog;BitterBlossom;Unmask;Surgical extraction
14. PJim: Leyline of the Void, Maze of Ith, Icatian Store, Karn Liberated
15. silkster: Tinder Farm, Narnam Renegade, Goblin Bombardment, Leyline of Sanctity
16. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance, Crashing Footfalls
17. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Badlands, Bloodhall Ooze, Duress
1. Asthereal: You can kill my chronomaton but that gives me life and you won't be able to attack profitably after (Neither will I) as i'll have my 2/2 mutavault vs your 2/1 factory or my 1/1 mutavault vs your 1/2 giant killer (You can't race because you give me 1 HP at least with stp). OTP you can start by playing killer and attack to win. OTD, I have muta up so we draw. 1-4 --> 1
2. Wrath of Pie: OTP, I can grow chronomaton once before you can kill it and win. OTD you can kill chronomaton and after that, we stare at each other with our man lands. 4-1 --> 5
3. Reeplcheep: So you have a 2/2 and a 1/1. Chronomaton will outrace you. 6-0 --> 11
4. Alphastryk: OTP, I play Chronomaton turn 1 then, i use port FTW. OTD: You unmask chronomaton and I force the draw with port (Can't kill you before you play shriekmaw). 4-1 --> 15
5. dte: You can't cast golem. question is can I have a big chronomaton to block DS profitably. Looks like Yes (see analysis below and check if you find a better line for you) 6-0 --> 21
OTP:
T0 = Leyline
T1 = Chronomaton. Citadel (20-17) wall.
T2 = C1. (20-14)
T3 = C2. (20-11) DS (2/2)
T4 = C3. (20-8) DS (5/5) attack 15-8
T5 = att block muta (15-4). Attack 4-4
T6 = att block with wall. if you don't attack I grow my chronomaton. If you attack I can block with mutavault and win.
OTD: T1 = Citadel (17-20) wall. Muta, chrono
T2 = Citadel (14-20). C1
T3 = CItadel (11-20) DS (2/2). C2
T4 = Citadel (8-20) DS (5/5) attack (8-15). C3
T5 = Citadel (5-20) DS (8/8) attack (5-7). I attack with chrono you block.
T6 = You attack I block with muta. I attack back for 5.
6. Phasmoid: I have two lands. CHrono will outgrow mana skimmer and win. 6-0 --> 27
7. jhhdk: OTP and OTD, you can't kill chrono without sacrificing both creatures... 6-0 --> 33
8. Me.
9. shiftyhomonculus: Nature's claim can kill LL, however, I can wait until chronomaton is 20/20 to attack with chrono and mutavault and kill you slowly. If you choose to kill chrono, mutavault will outrace Youngwolf. 6-0 --> 39
10. Rooster Cocoa: If I use rishadan port every turn, you can only murderous rider my chronomaton and we draw. I don't see anyway to win and or to loose. 2-2 --> 41
11. maxx!: You can't collective defiance T1 so i'll allways have at least chronomaton + a land. However, you can block chrono with renegade and mutavault with wall indefinitely. 2-2 --> 43
12. mattamort: OTP, I can play chronomaton and port so that you don't play anything at all. OTD, you can unmask chronomaton, and bitterblossom outraces mutavault I think. 3-3 --> 46
13. Serguei: same as Mattamort. 3-3 --> 49
14. PJim: You won't be able to cast karn. However, i won't be able to do any damage to you. 2-2 --> 51
15. Silkster: Narnam renegade kills chronomaton, however, mutavault will be there for the win. 6-0 --> 57
16. GoblinSmashmaster: You can allways suspend rhinos turn 1. After that, I can use port so that you can't cast defiance and kill chronomaton but that means dying to rhinos anyway with a small chronomaton. 0-6 --> 57
17. FTW: OTP, I can grow chronomaton up to 20/20 to allways be able to block or attack and trade with ooze and win with mutavault. OTP, You'll have one more counter than chronomaton. If you attack I double block with chrono and mutavault so you don't attack and we draw. 4-1 --> 61
Total 61.
Too many infinite combos. I had to play LL. Went with chrono as a good threat and mutavault (Good as a second threat but it should have been Factory) and port to try to beat decks with things stocklands or depletion lands.
I Didn't want to see too much sword to plowshare decks or decks skipping on LL without playing within the rules. Fortunately there was not too much of these and my score seems decent (Waiting for others analysis).
We had the infinite combo, we had karn as a top end threat, we saw also a nice sneak attack emrakul combo or a disciple of the vault combo... but all this wasn't doing anything vs LL :)
We also had the T1 lodestone golem which still looses to LL... so we played LL (don't know why serguei played instand grave removal... that seems in most cases inferior except vs the deck of shiftyhomonculus :) )
Good point. Ooze goes WD vs Chrono by itself, so I played Ooze as the "better Chrono" but Mutavault pushes this over the edge. Double blocking means my bigger Ooze can never attack, and the 2nd attacker means you can force the trade on your play. You really win this by having a manland vs my useless Duress, which would have been better as removal or another threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
Lets see how my somewhat lazy anti-persist deck worked out.
1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Mishra's Factory, Giant Killer, Swords to Plowshares
Since you're not using the Persist, I hold Leyline to pitch to Unmask, taking Swords which always beats my threat. I don't see how I can win here though, as you worst case can always trade Factory for Shriekmaw. On the other hand, I don't see a way for you to really push through damage so this looks like a draw to me. DD
2-2
2. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Mishra's Factory, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
Leyline stops Bombardment combo, and evoked Shriekmaw kills the Wolf on my turn 4, then returns as a 2/1, which can never attack through Factory but can block it to force the draw. DD
2-2
3. Reeplcheep: Crystal Vein, Arcbound Ravager, Clockwork Beetle, Leyline of the Void
OTP: EDIT 2: I don't put Leyline in play , but instead Unmask Beetle pitching my Leyline. Slow Shriekmaw beats your 1/1. W
OTD: EDIT 2: I can Unmask Ravager or use Leyline, but no matter what I do Shriekmaw can't get past the Beetle. D
4-1
4. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Unmask, Subterranean Hangar, Shriekmaw
This is me
5. dte: Tarnished citadel, Death's shadow, Tinder Wall, Lodestone golem
Leyline prevents your Golem angle, but Death's Shadow might be an issue, as the best I can do is a 2/1 on my turn 4 or a 3/2 on my turn 7. You can play Shadow on your turn 3 by bolting yourself 3 times with Citadel, and grow it from there which I can't really beat, so I'm force to Unmask Shadow pitching Shriekmaw for the draw. DD
2-2
6. Phasmoid: Phyrexian Walker, Swamp, Culling the Weak, Mana Skimmer
OTP: I Unmask Skimmer pitching Leyline, leaving me with the only threat. W
OTD: You make Skimmer turn 1, which means I can't ever use my land. L
3-3
7. jhhdk: Forest, Tinder Wall, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
Leyline stops Bombardment combo, and evoked Shriekmaw kills the Wolf on my turn 4, then returns as a 2/1, which Tinder Wall can't block due to Fear. If you hold the Wolf, you lose the race. WW
6-0
8. Tylert: Leyline of the void, Rishadan port, Mutavault, Chronomaton
OTP: I Unmask Chrono, but you can use port to forever hold off Shriekmaw but that also prevents you from attacking. D
OTD: I can't beat Chrono ever. L
1-4
9. shiftyhomunculus: Tropical Island, Young Wolf, Daze, Nature's Claim
OTP: I Unmask Wolf and eventually win with Shriekmaw. W
OTD: Claim beats Leyline, and Daze slows down evoked Shriekmaw until my turn 5. This is where it gets Awkward - you have to Claim my Leyline which undoes all 4 turns of attacking the Wolf has done so far, but also Shriekmaw must destroy the Wolf (and therefore make it a 2/2 via Undying) even though I don't want to. Because you'll get to attack with your 2 power creature first, you win the race (I can't block because the Wolf comes back forever). L
3-3
10. RoosterCocoa: Subterranean Hangar, Phyrexian Obliterator, Faerie Macabre, Murderous Rider
3 black creatures! LL
0-6
11. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Wall, Narnam Renegade, Collective Defiance
OTP: EDIT: I use Unmask pitching Leyline to take Renegade and force the draw, because Evoked Shriekmaw does not race turn 2 Renegade with a counter from sacrificing Tinder Wall. D
OTD: I put Leyline in play to avoid losing my hand, and I have to wait to normal cast Shriekmaw to avoid Defiance being used to kill it. That means my turn 7, after I've taken 5 hits from a 2-power Renegade (10). I lose that race, so instead I Unmask Renegade to force the draw if you wan to give it 2 power. D
2-2
12. mattamort: Leyline of the void, Unmask, Peat bog, Bitterblossom
OTP: I Unmask Bitterblossom pitching Leyline, then you Unmask Shriekmaw for the draw. D
OTD: You Unmask my Unmask so that you can make turn 2 Bitterblossom which I can't beat. L
1-4
13. Serguei: Peat Bog;BitterBlossom;Unmask;Surgical extraction
OTP: I Unmask Bitterblossom pitching Leyline, then you Unmask Shriekmaw for the draw. D
OTD: You Unmask my Unmask so that you can make turn 2 Bitterblossom which I can't beat. L
1-4
14. PJim: Leyline of the Void, Maze of Ith, Icatian Store, Karn Liberated
I will always be able to Unmask Karn, but Shriekmaw can't beat the Maze. DD
2-2
15. silkster: Tinder Farm, Narnam Renegade, Goblin Bombardment, Leyline of Sanctity
My Unmask is dead due to your Leyline, so I put out my Leyline to stop the Bombardment combo. If I Evoke Shriekmaw on my turn 4 to kill Renegade, you can use Tinder Wall + Bombardment to kill Shriekmaw, so that's a draw. If I instead wait until my turn 7 I can normal cast Shriekmaw for the win. WW
6-0
16. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance, Crashing Footfalls
OTP: I can Unmask Footfalls to force the draw, otherwise I can't beat Footfalls or Defiance. D
OTD: I can't beat or interact with turn 1 suspended Footfalls, but still have to Unmask Defiance. The best I can do is to kill a Rhino with evoked Shriekmaw as soon as it appears, but that leaves me racing a 4/4 with a 2/1. L
1-4
17. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Badlands, Bloodhall Ooze, Duress
OTP: I Unmask Ooze for the win.
OTD: I put Leyline in play, and my worst case is evoking Shriekmaw on my turn 4 to kill the Ooze and force a draw. Lets see the racing math to see if I can normal cast a turn 7 Shriekmaw to win. You play ooze on your turn 1, and it attacks for 2 on your turn 2 (18), 3 on your turn 3 (15), 4 on your turn 4 (11), 5 on your turn 5 (8), 6 on your turn 6 (2) - you win that race so I must take the draw. D
4-1
Total: 40 points if I can do math. Will see what the spreadsheet says.
Thanks for the welcome, Asthereal and FTW - glad to be here, though it looks like I may not be starting my 4CB career on a strong note...
My deck, for reference: Tropical Island, Young Wolf, Daze, Nature's Claim.
1. Asthereal. 0-6. OTP and OTD, you can push Swords through Daze to take out Young Wolf once you have your second land down.
2. Wrath of Pie. 2-2. I think I can draw this both OTP and OTD: I let you resolve Young Wolf, Daze the Bombardment, and Nature's Claim the Mishra's Factory when you animate it, resulting in a Wolf stalemate.
3. Reeplcheep. 2-2. OTP and OTD, I cast Young Wolf, and you can cast Beetle. I can Nature's Claim the Leyline on my turn two and keep Daze up against Ravager, but an infinitely recurring Beetle can stalemate even a 2/2 Young Wolf, so I believe this is a draw in both cases. (Casting Ravager first doesn't work, of course, as it leaves you with no mana source for the Beetle, dies to Nature's Claim, and doesn't get enough counters to infini-persist.)
4. alphastryk. 3-3. You said it best: OTP, I can resolve Young Wolf, Claim Leyline, and beat a Shriekmaw through the power of persist, OTD you Unmask to take Young Wolf and I have no win condition.
5. dte. 1-4. OTP, I have to Daze Tinder Wall to strand Lodestone Golem in your hand, as I can't beat that plus Shadow. You can then resolve Shadow and the game stalemates. OTD, I can't Daze Tinder Wall and you win handily.
6. Phasmoid. 1-4. Mana Skimmer, that's a name I haven't heard in a while. OTD this is a straightforward win for you, as you can Mana Skimmer before I have Daze up and race me down. OTP, I have a pretty amusing problem: I can hold Daze to stop you ever resolving Culling the Weak, but, even if I Nature's Claim your Walker, it comes back with 2 toughness, and I have no way to kill my own Young Wolf to get it back as a 2/2 that can attack through the Walker. Thus, a stalemate.
7. jhhdk. 1-4. OTP, I can Daze Tinder Wall and trap Bombardment in your hand and we are left with two Young Wolves, which stalemate - draw. OTD, you can play around Daze to either combo off while I'm tapped out or stop me ever casting a creature, and you win with either the combo or Young Wolf beatdown.
8. Tylert. 0-6. Pretty sure your analysis is correct here - you're Daze-immune, if I Claim Leyline then Chronomaton kills me, and if I Claim Chronomaton then Mutavault beats Young Wolf. Two losses.
10. RoosterCocoa. 0-6. Even with Daze to delay you for a turn, I have no way of killing you before you can kill Young Wolf and Macabre snipe it out of the graveyard. Two losses.
11. maxx!. 1-4. OTP I can Daze Tinder Wall and get in one Young Wolf attack, and then Young Wolf and Narnam Renegade stalemate - draw. OTD, with five mana from a recurring Tinder Wall, you can use an escalated Defiance to kill Young Wolf if it's on the battlefield and eat the rest of my hand, even through a Daze, so you win.
12. mattamort. 4-1. OTP, I think I win. I Young Wolf on turn 1. Even if you then Unmask me (you'd need to pitch Leyline, having not started it, otherwise you don't have a way to make bodies), whichever card you don't take will deal with Bitterblossom before it can make a token and I beat down with Wolf. OTD, you can Unmask to take Young Wolf and we draw.
13. serguei. 4-1. I think this is the same situation as mattamort. Extraction is redundant when I'm OTP, as you can't kill Young Wolf.
14. PJim. 0-6. I can't even come close to killing you before you can resolve Karn through a Daze, eat Young Wolf, and reset the game with it on your side.
15. silkster. 6-0. Both OTP and OTD, I can Daze Narnam Renegade, which leaves you without a win condition, and then beat down with Young Wolf.
16. GoblinSmashmaster. 0-6. OTP, I can Daze Tinder Wall to strand Defiance in your hand, but even an infinite wolf doesn't beat two 4/4s. OTD, I can't Daze Tinder Wall and you can eat Daze to stop me from countering Crashing Footfalls.
17. FTW. 2-2. Agree with your analysis - Ooze and Wolf stalemate whatever we do.
Spreadsheet says that gives me a total of 28 points for the round, of a possible 96, a 29.2% performance rate. I think my mistake was trying to plan for too many eventualities - Daze plus Claim didn't give me space to make my win condition more robust, and Claim was a blank far too often.
Looking forward to the next one!
EDIT 17/06 15:15: Edited performance against mattamort and serguei following serguei's analysis - thanks!
EDIT 19/06 11:00: Edited performance against jhhdk following FTW's analysis - thank you!
RhinoSmashmaster Results for Round "I missed the Goblin combo :mad::eek::eek:"
1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Mishra's Factory, Giant Killer, Swords to Plowshares
Rhino smash! 6-0
2. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Mishra's Factory, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
Rhino smash! 6-0
3. Reeplcheep: Crystal Vein, Arcbound Ravager, Clockwork Beetle, Leyline of the Void
Rhino smash, then Ravaged 3-3
4. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Unmask, Subterranean Hangar, Shriekmaw
Rhino smash, then Unmasked 4-1
5. dte: Tarnished citadel, Death's shadow, Tinder Wall, Lodestone golem
Rhino smash, then Golem 3-3
6. Phasmoid: Phyrexian Walker, Swamp, Culling the Weak, Mana Skimmer
Rhino smash! 6-0
7. jhhdk: Forest, Tinder Wall, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
Rhino smash! 6-0
8. Tylert: Leyline of the void, Rishadan port, Mutavault, Chronomaton
Rhino smash! 6-0
9. shiftyhomunculus: Tropical Island, Young Wolf, Daze, Nature's Claim
Rhino smash! 6-0
10. RoosterCocoa: Subterranean Hangar, Phyrexian Obliterator, Faerie Macabre, Murderous Rider
Rhino smash! 6-0
11. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Wall, Narnam Renegade, Collective Defiance
Hey that's me! 3-3
12. mattamort: Leyline of the void, Unmask, Peat bog, Bitterblossom
Rhino smash, then Unmasked 4-1
13. Serguei: Peat Bog;BitterBlossom;Unmask;Surgical extraction
Rhino smash, then Unmasked 4-1
14. PJim: Leyline of the Void, Maze of Ith, Icatian Store, Karn Liberated
Rhino smash! 6-0
15. silkster: Tinder Farm, Narnam Renegade, Goblin Bombardment, Leyline of Sanctity
Leyline 0-6
16. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance, Crashing Footfalls
That's me not bombarding with goblins :( :(
17. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Badlands, Bloodhall Ooze, Duress
Duress 0-6
Total: 69 points
3. Reeplcheep: Crystal Vein, Arcbound Ravager, Clockwork Beetle, Leyline of the Void
I can never guess the meta properly between abuse the rule, hate the rule, or ignore it.
The entries:
1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Mishra's Factory, Giant Killer, Swords to Plowshares
LL 0-6
2. Wrath of Pie: Taiga, Mishra's Factory, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
Leyline. WW 6-0
4. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, Unmask, Subterranean Hangar, Shriekmaw
Leyline will stop me from winning, but the beetle walls your shriekmaw forever. DL 1-4. End of combat is not the same as end of blocks.
5. dte: Tarnished citadel, Death's shadow, Tinder Wall, Lodestone golem
The t3 infinite power attacker eventually kills you. WW 6-0
6. Phasmoid: Phyrexian Walker, Swamp, Culling the Weak, Mana Skimmer
I can get set up with infinite power on the play, but OTD you win the race. WL 3-3
7. jhhdk: Forest, Tinder Wall, Young Wolf, Goblin Bombardment
Leyline. WW 6-0
8. Tylert: Leyline of the void, Rishadan port, Mutavault, Chronomaton
I am more affected by the hate. LL 0-6
9. shiftyhomunculus: Tropical Island, Young Wolf, Daze, Nature's Claim
If I i let you daze the beetle you can claim the ravager. So I sac vein to play the beetle, and no matter what you claim we have undying 1/1s staring at each other. DD 2-2
10. RoosterCocoa: Subterranean Hangar, Phyrexian Obliterator, Faerie Macabre, Murderous Rider
LL 0-6
11. maxx!: Forest, Tinder Wall, Narnam Renegade, Collective Defiance
Leyline stops you going off t1. My infinite power ravager trades with narnam and then modular kills you. OTD you need to make me discard ravager so a 1/2 narnam and a 2/2 beetle stare. WD 4-1
12. mattamort: Leyline of the void, Unmask, Peat bog, Bitterblossom
LL 0-6
13. Serguei: Peat Bog;BitterBlossom;Unmask;Surgical extraction
LL 0-6
14. PJim: Leyline of the Void, Maze of Ith, Icatian Store, Karn Liberated
LL 0-6
15. silkster: Tinder Farm, Narnam Renegade, Goblin Bombardment, Leyline of Sanctity
Infinite power ravager trades with renegade and then donates its counters to beetle.
WW 6-0
16. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance, Crashing Footfalls
OTP I can get set up. OTD discarding my ravager slows me down too much. WL 3-3
17. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Badlands, Bloodhall Ooze, Duress
LL 0-6
11 W 4D 17 L for 37/96