If it means that you're posting a video of you kicking my ass with Liliana, then I'm down. You wrecked me in that 2-man queue. What's your build?Quote:
Originally Posted by damionblackgear
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If it means that you're posting a video of you kicking my ass with Liliana, then I'm down. You wrecked me in that 2-man queue. What's your build?Quote:
Originally Posted by damionblackgear
I'm definitely retooling my deck based on Esper Stoneblade. We did it with UW, now it's time to do it again.
Key things: good cards are good. No more derdling, more doing.
My "retooled" list will look like the old lists, but with minor changes. I think a 1/2 Pulse/Vindicate split is now required, along with Dread of Night and Virtue's Ruin (and not Perish) in the board. Luckily, I picked up my 4th Ruin last night (thank God).
I also was playing against Maverick last night, and watching him fetch a piece of equipment on turn 2, then wait til then end of turn 3 to drop it was so slow, it was agonizingly painful. I felt bad blowing him out, but it just made me realize that without countermagic, Stoneforge is awful (unless you don't care about vialing it in, and you just want the equipment).
You need to kill Maverick and Esperblade, and we're already on infi-removal against RUG.
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Badlands
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Vindicate
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Deathmark
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Garruk Relentless (or basically 2 powerful cards against control)
--BOARD--
2 Krosan Grip
2 Virtue's Ruin
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Dread of Night
+2 Open
My choices are this: I want cards that do something, all the time (no Moxen). I want to be a bit land-heavy to consistently hit my mana/plow through Wastelands. I want tons of removal against Maverick, and I want discard against control.
I know everyone's been hounding me over the Ancient Grudge thing, but here's the thing. Batterskull is tricky, and wasting a Grip on something not Batterskull sucks. Grudge nicely clears out Jitte and Sword, or Crucibles, etc. It's also a nice bump against Affinity or Reanimator or something. So far, it's been great. The little extra value has been wonderful for the very low investment.
The main reason I want 2 Planeswalkers/control elements if that you need something Esper can't technically interact with. If you land Elspeth, they're in deep doo-doo. Garruk also helps a bunch, in theory. I haven't been SUPER impressed with Liliana, but she could easily squeeze in here to help out (I'd have to add a Loam, and probably cut one thing, but no biggy). My point is, you need something that'll run long if need be and isn't a creature and does something. Namely a planeswalker.
Deathmark came back in instead of Ghastly due to graveyard reliance. You want something that kills Knight/Ooze on the spot, no if's, and's, or but(tock)s.
-Matt
It was a good game. Me top-decking well helped. I didn't record that one though. I started recording a daily until I had to drop from connection issues (Love power outages). I've got a couple of other 2-man's recorded though, and I'm currently going back over the replays to explain the things I notice that I'm doing wrong (really hard to pull of a perfect game). Was just something I figured I'd add at the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
I'll ship you the list a bit later. Currently at work and without access to the easier way for me to get to it (a.k.a. being lazy. Give me 20 and I got you).
-Edit-
Added lists to signature. Figured it was a good idea.
It seems you wrote a list short of 3 cards. I guess 3x Zenith?Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Nice, can't wait to see some:smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by damionblackgear
About the list, how do you like more Thoughtseizes over Inquisitions? I prefer Thoughtseize when only running 4-of discard, and Inquisition when paired with secondary discard (Hymn, Therapy). Since we need to hit Jaces (and Batterskull occasionally), it seems a no brainer, i guess.
I've enjoyed having the Thoughtseizes but there's enough burn in the format (not just the deck) that 4 is just a bit too much. At the same time, It's also become that we need to grab some larger things. Just remember that you don't have to play your discard on the first turn (Belchor's not really played right now).Quote:
Originally Posted by zalachan
You can usually find a way to make Batterskull a bad choice in that Stoneblade matches (especially with a Jitte in the main). Force still requires they eat another blue card to use (so it's a built in hymn for something you bait). Jace is an issue if you're equal on board or behind. If you're even slightly ahead, Jace usually only makes 1 activation. I'm probably more afraid of Time Spirals, Natural Orders, and Fireblast than any of the other 4+ cc spells.
If you want cards to do something all the time, then imo you should reconsider Deathmark on maindeck, don't you think? I know it's a good card against most of decks, but it will be useless against lots more.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Thinking about pros and cons of Ancient Grudge imo I say that you are sacrificing too much for it. I mean, the idea of a 2 for 1 is good, but by including a Badland there creates some unnecesary problems in case of drawing it in the opening hand or in the next 2 turns (Swords to plowshares and Qasali Pridemage suffers for it) and all that just for a single Grudge on sb. Against Maverick, Deed takes care of the creatures and equipments, plus the Grips work as well againts all the Aff decks.Quote:
I know everyone's been hounding me over the Ancient Grudge thing, but here's the thing. Batterskull is tricky, and wasting a Grip on something not Batterskull sucks. Grudge nicely clears out Jitte and Sword, or Crucibles, etc. It's also a nice bump against Affinity or Reanimator or something. So far, it's been great. The little extra value has been wonderful for the very low investment.
Well, I'm not sacrificing a ton, actually. 1 Badlands means I can still run all the black things. Hooray!
The Deathmarks are WAY more than do-nothings. Let me know what top deck they don't affect, aside from non-interactive ones. Any deck using creatures to win is playing green or white ones.
The Grudge could easily become a Nature's Claim, but it's definitely an artifact/enchantment instant removal.
-Matt
Hi, glad you answer that, I like having a variety of opinions. I consider badland as a sensible dual land with no more interaction with the deck besides the grudge at sb, so I don't think it's the best idea to jeopardize your mana base for just that little thing. In your deck is like a swamp that can be destroyed with a wasteland.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
About deathmark, well, u said "cards that do something all the time" so i'm guessing you're not suppoused to deal with a top deck at every match. In the other hand I found some other removals more effective as a remplacement that can work perfectly in a most creature based games (like diabolic edict that also works well against progenitus, emrakul and Reanimator deck creatures). I think deathmark is ok at your sb, this just for trying that it won't be useless on all the non-interactive matches.
I like nature's claim but Krozan grip can deal better with more Artifact/Enchantments that mess with this deck (like batterskull, Counterbalance ...) Split second here is the key. You should have nocited that sometimes we really want to destroy something and we cannot afford to lose the target or get countered.
True, but instant speed is what I was going for regarding the Grudge slot, anyway. 3 grips is a little bit 3-heavy, so I'd want to try the Grudge/Claim as the "quick" slot, so to speak.
Deathmark does something in the Stoneblade matchup, the RUG matchup, and the Maverick matchup.
Assume for a second RUG doesn't have any green creatures in play that you can target. Fine, then you use STP on their Delver. But, if they have no targets, then true, it'll be dead until they cast a Goyf.
In the Stoneblade matchup, it lets you have 6 ways to interact SFM before it becomes active (also 3/6 of your discard hit Batterskull, but you know what I mean).
In the Maverick matchup, well, yeah. It's the tits.
I should have said I wanted cards that did something 90% of the time. Obviously STP doesn't do much sometimes, but I'm not going to cut it :tongue:
The main problem I have with Diabolic are these issues:
1) Costs 2 (Spell Snare hates me)
2) Doesn't hit things I hate.
3) Easily dodged in 2/3 of the matchups.
In Stoneblade, it can work sometimes, but if they have a Snapcaster or have popped Souls, you're out of luck in hitting what you want.
Maverick also has this issue. If they go T1 Noble into T2 Knight, that Edict is going to look very silly.
RE: removing Progenitus/Emrakul, yes against SnT/Sneak Attack decks where they have haste, it's obviously the best card for that. However, if you have a turn to deal with it, and if they have multiple creatures, Tariff is a better card.
-Matt
I never meant 3 grips on md, as you said, they are 3CMC, and we don't want that. Thinking more about it, nature claim seems nice, I will give it a try on my sb.
Stp is useful on every game, even if your opponents doesn't have any creatures. I had win lots of times against ANT and Monored, just beacause of a well played Stp.
Gastly demise is another option there, with discards, wastelands, fetchs, and other removals you have enough graveyard to make it work (it also work against goblins and delvers).
If you don't expect to find those kind of decks very often, then diabolic edict is ok at your sb. I don't like tariff a lot, i mean, it's a sorcery, and doesn't give the surprise effect that we need, it also doesn't work very often in an advanced game against GW Maverick, Delver or Stoneblade.
Anyway, I was thinking for a while if Beast Within can have a slot in this deck. Maybe it's kinda silly, but it offers more to the deck. More land destruction with vindicate and wastelands, a way to deal with PWs, a nicae and unexpected spot removal and all that at instant speed, the token, doesn't give us lots of troubles, because our creatures are larger and a Deed takes care of it as well as other creatures, and also it can be used to destroy our own lands for a 3/3 beast making it a good combat trick
I've got 2-3 slots in the main open for either Planeswalkers or Lingering Souls. The Souls nicely provide attacks against Jace, or just chump blockers in general. It's slightly counterproductive to our Dread of Night plan out of the side and our Deeds, but, might not be bad game 1.
Would the 2-3 slots be better as Planeswalkers, Lingering Souls, Discard, or what?
I'm thinking about going +1 Terravore, +2 Elspeth. Just, again, to have a bit better edge against control. Terravore is definitely nice against Maverick. Mother of Runes, stop my trample, why don't you? :tongue:
-Matt
I used to play +1 Terravore, +2 Elspeth, but I got tired of the Elspeth being useless most of games, so I remove them; it's a finisher, giving flying and a chumpblocker maker, but it's mana expensive bomb, I prefer larger creatures or more board control.
Lingering seems ok with equipments or bumper enchantments, but by itself I don't know, I'll give them a try anyway, nice idea there btw, seems nice with Liliana. :tongue:
What do you think about Unearth?, It can reanimate every creature in the deck, and the cycling helps us with Sensei's Top or Life form the Loam.
Beast Within?
I actually would say to try out Lingering Souls, I actually put 3x Liliana into the board figuring I would only need them in certain matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
For sure. I'm just looking for two powerful slots in general. Ideally, it'd be Knight # 5-6, but you know :P
Basically, I'm looking for a threat and not an answer for those slots, since we're a very reactive deck, I'd like 2-3 proactive slots, if that makes sense.
-Matt
Terravore is OP right now, being so good against any knight deck and can trample over anything the UWb decks put in front of it, you have to keep swords away from him but that is about the only thing that stops the big guy these days.
You could also add 1 of s to tutor for with GSZ, ie Teeg against control or the aforementioned terravore.
Fine fine, something that needs an answer, fits into our style of play . . . I'm sensing a sudden reappearance by this creature . . . throw in 2-3 Troll Ascetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Oh yeah, that guy! Totally forgot about him :P
-Matt
Also, happy Easter!
I wanted to draw up a Tarmogoyf dropping Easter eggs for Knight, Dark Confidant, and Gaddock Teeg to find, but I can't use Photoshop well yet :P
-Matt
Am I entirely surprised Ian Ellis (damionblackgear) made Top 16 with Rock at SCG Des Moines?
-Matt
I know, he surely took them for surprise. I don't like that list at all :(