I knew Dredge had the ability to mull, but down to three? That's pretty good I have to agree.
I know Manaless Dredge always wants to be on the draw, but should I use the same idea playing dredge?
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I knew Dredge had the ability to mull, but down to three? That's pretty good I have to agree.
I know Manaless Dredge always wants to be on the draw, but should I use the same idea playing dredge?
Manaless wants to be on the draw and ideally keep their opening seven so they can get a dredger to the yard using the cleanup step.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
With the LED version I'd say you almost certainly want to go first if given a choice, because you have multiple spells that let you discard on your first turn. And if your opening hand looks bad you can just mulligan, a luxury Manaless does not like to do that much.
Thanks for the hints! Appreciated!
It's debateable, I've always chose to draw with LED dredge after winning the coin flip. I'm not sure how great it is post-DRS, but it definitely added consistency and explosiveness to the deck when you could either straight DDD or have ******** for Coliseum with LED immediately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
hey dude sorry just saw this lol. And honestly i think pithing needle does have utility, however I barely needed it all weekend. In testing i bring it in against bug to stop nihil spellbomb, as you can just make deathrite shaman irrelevent by just dredging a shit load of cards. Nihil spellbomb seems to be the artifact hate of choice at the moment from what i saw this weekend and my past tournament at jupiter games. and pithing needle of course also can deathrite shaman if you have multiples.Quote:
Originally Posted by tw0as
All:
Keep an eye out for a new primer in Developmental for a new version of Dredge I've been working on.
Soo..spamming F5 all night long?
Hey everyone, finally got some time to finish a tournament report from last weeks open in sommerset. Went 7-3 over the weekend with dredge and was pretty pleased with the result over the weeked. I've posted my list on the source before, the only main change was finally putting griselbrand into the trade binder and opting to just run 1 flayer and 2 dread returns in the maindeck and Iona/Elesh in the sideboard.
Round 1
Jund: 2-1
I was starting this game out really nervous as it was my first big event, a slight case of the nerves. I saw my opening seven frowned, mulled to six, then to five, then to a four which had careful study, troll, land, bridge...i kept and hoped for the best. My opponent kept his seven and open with a badlands and a thoughtseize, he takes my study and i frown. I draw a card and can't do anything. He plays a deathrite, eventually gets two bloodbraid elfs and destroys me, im really never in this game and he takes game one.
Game 2: I side in two firestorms and two pithing needles for deathrite shaman and that's about it. On the play i have a hand with led, troll, breakthrough, faithless looting, city of brass, stinkweed imp, and bridge. He mulls to five, his face showshe doesn'tl ike it at all. I go for broke and flayer him on the 2nd turn.
Game3: He mulls to five trying to find hate. He plays a turn one deathrite shaman. I play pithing needle on his shaman, he drops a land then passes. I play a land, careful study pitching two trolls, then cast breakthrough, then flayer him. Pretty quick win.
Shardless BUG: 2-1
This game i get paired against a guy who openly admitted didnt play legacy much. I thank the pairings for this one, i win the die roll and keep a hand with land, putrid imp, troll, stinkweed, ichorid, land, study. I play putrid imp pass the turn, he plays thoughtseize, takes my study and passes. I pitch my troll, imp, and ichorid to the yard. Bring back ichrod, dredge six getting two bridges, swing for 5 and get two zombies. He plays an underground sea, suspends ancestral visions and casts a deathrite, the only relevant turn he had. I slow rolled this game and got there with zombie beatdown.
Game 2: I mull to five, keeping a bad hand, and just die to deathrite shaman and nihil spellbomb.
Game three: I draw the nut, dredge about 40 cards into my graveyard, cabal therapy his nihil spellbombs, he had 2 in hand, then flayer him the turn after.
Reanimator: 2-0
I remember feeling pretty pumped about the two straight wins. Being my first big tourni i didn't want to get two excited but was glad i was doing well so far. As my opnonent sits down were shuffling and he accidentlly drops a ponder and an underground sea, i think he's on some form of storm deck from this. I lose the roll, keep a hand with careful study, breakthrough, putrid imp, troll, troll, gemstone, cephalid colisseum. He turn one thoughtseizes me... to which i have a fear that he's definatly playing reanimator... like the worst match up ever lol. He passes after seeing my hand, and i play my gemstone and my putrid imp. I pass, he fetches for a sea, plays entomb on GRISELBRAND and reanimates it... i think... wtf... why the fuck did he do that.... He passes the turn, i pitch my dredger, play breakthrough... he activates griselbrand to find Force and forces the breakthrough. He untaps, plays a land, swings, and passes. I dredge, play my coliseum and dredge some more. I am able to return some ichorids, swing at him to get him to 1 life and threating death the next turn. He untaps, plays every ponder/brainstorm he has in hand, swings to get to 8, then draws seven hoping to find elesh norn and an animation spell. He can't and scoops... fuck yeah.
Game 2: I keep a full seven with two studies, a breakthrough, an led, stinkweed, and two lands. He mulls to five, his face showing he doesn't like it, but keeps. He plays a fetch and passes. I play careful study to bait a force of will... he thinks long and hard, then pitches brainstorm to force and counters. He draws a card, plays careful study, pitches a griselbrand and passes. I then go ape shit and play with myself for the next five minutes, creating a zombie horde and flayering him... beating reanimator is awesome.
RIP Miracles: 0-2 :(
I'm on a big hype train to this point as i'm 3-0, playing at table 2. The guy i get paired with is really nice and we joke around. I keep hand with putrid imp and some dredgers and keep. He keeps a full seven and is on the play. He plays an island and passes. I smile and ask if he's on omnitell as i dropp my putrid imp and pass the turn, he laughs says not quite as he draws his card and casts RIP... - _ -
Game two: I keep the nut hand and he mulls to six. I cast breakthrough after cracking led, and WHIFF... like whiffed hard... dredged to three narcomeobas no birdges and no ichorids or dread returns or therapies or anything. Afterwards he just casts RIP and my narcomoeba beat down just can't get there through his angel army.
Spanish Inquisition: 0-2 (0.0 this deck is sweet btw haha, just stupid turn one combo kill galore)
I get turn one'd both games... even after he mulls to five game one too.
Jund: 2-1
Game 1: I start to feel sad now as I'm 3-2 with a full day left. I'm tilted form the last two games and no I'm on the bubble of dropping out. The guy i'm playing isn't exactly the nciest around but it doesnt matter. Game one I mull to five, keep a shaky hand i normally woulda thrown back if i was thinking clearly and he drops a deathrite shaman. I'm never in this game at all as his hymn to tourach his two enablers i draw and my dredgers are stuck in my hand long enough for him to kill me with an elf and tarmogoyf.
Game two: I am on the play and don't board anything in at all. I keep a nut hand, and turn one him. I cabal therapied for nihil spellbomb, didn't see it, and figured he just didnt have it since he snapped kept his first seven.
Game three: I have a hand full of cantrips and an led, he drops a turn one nihil spellbomb... im tight at this but don't let it show. I have nothing boarded in for this at all and realize i'm in deep shit. I begin playing every cantrip spell i have, filling my graveyard with lands and used draw spells over a period of four or five turns. i hard cast a narcomoeba play a careful study and pitch an ichorid and a birdge to my graveyard which is filled with about 15 useless cards... mostly lands and draw spells. He has me at like 5 life, and swings with a 4/5 goyf, after i declare my blocker, he nukes my graveyard with his spellbomb and casts another goyf... On my turn i have one card in hand, faithless looting, a city of brass and a cephalid coliseum as my lands... and hope to god i get the best top deck of my life. I draw an LED... cast my led, play faithless looting which draws TWO TROLLS... pitch my two trolls then crack the LED and flashback faithless looting. I dredge twelve cards deep revealing TWO BRIDGES and TWO MOEBA'S... im saved. I pass the turn after that, realizing i might just win. My oponent draws, then passes. opting not to swing with his goyfs. I dredge six, reavling the first dread return... and then activate the cephalid coliseum. I dredge two trolls, then a sitnkweed, and the fourth and fifth cards of the stinkweed imp were the flayer and second dread return. I flayer him that turn and win.
Deathblade: 2-0
I'm amped from stealing the game three before this game and still have a chance to do well. Game one I have the Nut, and create about 8 zombies on turn one after eating his hand . He topdecks a deathrite and plays it. I bring back three ichorids and swing away for lethal.
Game two he goes first and plays a turn one deathrite. I play careful study to bait force and he forces it. Next turn he drops a fetch and leaves deathrite open, opting not to play a two drop. I top an LED and that’s all she wrote for that game.
Deathblade: 1-2
Game 1: I draw the nut and flayer him on turn two.
Game 2: He gets a turn one deathrite, plows the putrid imp I play and slowly eats my graveyard until he gets batterskull online.
Game three : This game I’m pretty steamed over as I should have won this game if I wasn’t such a moron. I keep a hand with breakthrough, study, cephalid coliseum and abunch of dredgers. He mulls to six and im on the play. I play carefull study, draw and LED and a bridge then pitch my redgers. He plays deathrite then passes the turn. I assume he doesn’t have nihil spellbomb from this play and go all in here, dredging about forty cards but only revealing two cabal therapy. I therapy him naming something stupid like confidant or something as im fairly sure I just kill him next turn, he reveals a brainstorm, a nihil spellbomb, and a detention sphere. I realize I fucked up, as he brainstorms in response to my second therapy, hiding the bomb. I get the detention sphere and pass with 9 zombies on board and three ichorids in my yard. He draws the spellbomb and nukes me. I draw getting a flayer, then swing for 18, he’s at two. He then plays another detention sphere he found off the brainstorm and I lose to jace five turns later after he exiles my zombies.
Reanimator: 2-1
I’m sad at being 5-3 now. I would have dropped but we were two rounds away from finishing so I figured I’d keep playing. Me and my opponent get to chatting about how our tournaments have bene going before we play and he’s a nice dude from what I can make out. He plays a swamp and ends the turn. I think he’s on some form of black control deck or zombardment and play a putrid imp. In response he entombs a griselbrand. Reanimates the next turn. Then forces any draw spell I play the next two turns and I die.
Game two: I ask him why he didn’t get elesh norn, and he said he wasn’t sure if it killed me outright like it does manaless… I chuckle and told him another reanimator player did the same thing to me earlier in the day and that not getting elesh norn is a misplay, but he won either way so whatever. I keep a solid hand and he mulls to six. I play putrid imp and pass. He plays thoughtseize and takes one of the breakthrough’s I had in hand. I pitch the grave torll, dredge six, play breakthrough and dredge a lot getting two moeba’s on board with two bridges in the yard. I Therapy his to oblivion and then kill him the turn after with zombies as his topdeck is just a lotus petal.
Game three: He mulls to five, shakes his head then keeps. He thoughtseizes me, taking the careful study out of my hand which was my only enabler… I had troll, stinkweed, ichorid, gemstone, LED, LED left. I top deck a faithless looting like a boss on my draw step then go ape shit. I play both led’s the play faithless looting cracking one of my LED’s to pitch my hand. He forces it, has one card in hand, and I continue to go forty cards deep. I flayer him that turn and go on to round ten.
Goblins: 2-1
Game 1: I mull to four, play a land then careful study hoping to find a dredger off the top which I don’t. He plays lackey then passes. I draw getting a looting, cast it and find nothing. He then attack gets siege gang commander online and I can’t do anything relevant.
Game 2: I turn one him with flayer
Game 3: I turn two him with elesh norn lol.
Looking for some constructive thought on my sideboard primarily, but will also take input on the main board.
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Ichorid
2 Golgari Thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Careful Study
2 Dread Return
3 Breakthrough
4 Faithless Looting
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Griselbrand
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
Sideboard
1x Winds of Change
2x Wear // Tear
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Firestorm
1x Nature's Claim
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Flayer of the Hatebound
1x Angel of Despair
1x MindBreak Trap
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
This is my result of most recent FNM Legacy
Round 1 Belchoir 2-0
Game 1
They turn 1 Empty the Warrens for 16 Goblin Tokens. Having 2 turns I didn't scoop because I had a pretty potent opening hand. I managed to get 2 Narcomoebas out with 1 Bridge in yard. He swung with everything. I didn't block any and went to 2 life, reason being is although I could have traded and gotten 2 zombies I wold have lost my Bridges and chance to win with a 1 shot since he had no blockers. Comes to me and I'm able to dredge deep enough to 2 more Bridges and Flamekin
Game 2
I mull to 3. Narcomoeba, Cehpilad, Mindbreak Trap. He trys to Turn 1 and I trap his Belchoir. Slow going, but I managed to beat him down with 2 Narcos and 2 Putrids.
Round 2 TES 2-1
Game 1
I'm on the play. Putrid Imp Go. He plays land LED and passes turn. I dredge a bit getting 1 therapy, 1 narco, and 2 bridges. Go to cabal therapy him and force out a brainstorm. I know he is on TES and not Ant, but I'm not sure what to call between rites or rituals since I was assuming he put the win cons back on top. I name ponder figuring that if it wasn't win cons he put back on top he would need to shuffle some how and dig further for the missing pieces. I named correctly, but as assumed the win con was on top and he wins next turn.
Game 2
I turn 1 LED breakthrough gravetroll. I tear is hand apart with 3 Therapies and it's just a matter of beating him down with zombies and Ichorids.
Game 3
He turn 1 chrome mox's a ponder and then casts ponder. He plays a land and passes. I turn 1 therapy on him. He hesitates to say ok so I name Brainstorm and it hits. I drop LED and crack to dredge a bit. I hit a narcomoeba and clean out the infernal tutor in his hand. Next turn I Iona naming black and beat down next turn. (funny thing after is he burning wishes for Chain of Vapors and hits Iona LOL)
Round 3 Jund 1-2
Game 1
A lot of back and forth he has sylvan library out but I keep a lot of pressure on so he's throwing deathrites in the way leaving BoB out unless he gets a 2nd. I end up losing the game for myself because he is at 5 with bob out. He needs another land and has a fetch, but can't crack it since bob trigger happens before library. Mistakenly I swing in and give him a way to kill bob. After that I just can't out race deathrite with a narcomoeba.
Game 2
Play patiently an firestorm both his deathrites at the end of his turn 2 before going off.
Game 3
Get's deathrite out. I go Putrid Imp. Next turn he goes wasteland and I'm done. Wasn't able to get back in the game fast enough with deathrite eating my only dredger.
Round 4 Affinity 2-1
Game 1
I use Putrid imp tricks to block his Thopter with cranial (discard give flying, block discard give threshold) I get a narcomoeba off dredge to block the signal pest. He can't get the bodies to beat back at me.
Game 2
I firestorm some of his guys and I cabal therapy looking for graveyard hate and see none. He top decks tormads and I can't stop Etched Champion
Game 3
Therapy for protection and see no graveyard hate so I Elesh Norn turn 2.
Overall 3-1
Split Top 4.
Thanks for the feed back!
After not having played dredge in a tournament for a while I decided it was time to run it back at the local. There were 54 players with 6 rounds cut to top 8. Made top 8 and got 3rd overall piloting the same list as before... Quadlazer (-1 Breakthrough, +1 Dread Return).
Sideboard:
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Ancient Grudge
3x Ashen Ghoul
2x Tarnished Citadel
1x Undiscovered Paradise
4x Nature's Claim
The Rounds went as followed:
Round 1: Death & Taxes (2-0)
Round 2: MUD (2-0)
Round 3: Goblins (1-2)
Round 4: Elves (2-1)
Round 5: Junk (2-0)
Round 6: Sneak Attack (ID)
Overall Record 4-1-1 and was 5th seed going into top 8 and would face off against 4th place Goblins whom I had lost to in the swiss. I do get my revenge though and take round 1 of top 8 2-0. In the semis I was paired against Maverick losing game 1, taking game , and ultimately getting demolished game 3. I did make it out of there with a Volcanic Island and Scalding tarn for my troubles. Overall it was a great event and I enjoyed playing this deck again. Good times.
I'll fill in more details as I recollect lol.
I built Manaless Dredge on MTGO and IRL, and I fell in love with it. :)
It's weird that a combo deck has a good game vs control since there's no interaction between the decks. :P
Manaless is a different beast all together in a way. It really can be more explosive at times than traditional Dredge with its bountiful amount of recursive creatures in Ichorid and Nether Shadows to really push through 1 of the 4 Dread Returns in the deck. But then again it suffers from almost having no option to mulligan even if you're hand is a bit slow. And being even a bit slow in this format means you fall behind really quick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy
On another note. I'm thinking of switching up my sideboard. At this point I really don't like the Leylines. I seriously can't remember the last time I boarded that in. I would much rather have some combination of Pithing Needle and Firestorm even if it means rolling over to the Reanimator matchup. If I did wanna shore it up though I would probably stick a Coffin Purge somewhere in there; flashback means it doesn't disrupt my overall plan and if I open with it its a nice surprise being an instant. Not to mention some recent reanimator lists are eschewing the use of Daze over Lotus Petal which means the only real way they're going to stop it is with Force.
Pithing Needle seems really good shutting down things like Knight of the Reliquary (searches up Bajuka Bog), Sneak Attack, DRS, which are things I care about more or less while still having the ability to hit artifact hate like Tormond's Crypt, Nihil Spellbomb, Relic of Progenitus,etc..
Firestorm is one I go back and forth with. Its an uncounterable discard outlet that can wipe your opponents board in a pinch. However, I have reservations about the card sometimes because its a bit of a Nonbo when u have to pitch one of your bridges. And I just simply think wiping the board doesn't play into the overall gameplan of dredge. were not really a control deck. That and its a one shot deal. You really do need something meaningful to follow it up with. So I guess I could consider one copy or two.
I did notice this while playing on MTGO, but Turn 2 wins are not rare (unless you do like me and click the wrong dude to Dread Return...), I understand what you mean though, some hands I would love to mulligan but its not in the deck's nature to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
Should I have posted in the Manaless Dredge thread though?
Still waiting Hollywood :)
Took Dredge out for a 20-people-tournament today. Went 4-1 playing Quadlaser with 1 DR and 2 Firestorms maindeck.
Won vs Doomsday 2-0 (G1 I keep a slow hand with 2 Therapies since I know hes on combo - he mulls to 5).
M2 vs Merfolk 2-1
M3 vs Maverick 1-2 .. G1 I win easily, G2 I draw ~30 cards without finding a single dredger and die. G3 I cast Firestorm to remove his T1 mother of runes, flashbacking therapy naming Ooze and am prepared to go off next turn with coliseum activation but he has a Rest in Peace and I scoop.
M4 vs Maverick 2-0
M5 vs UR-Pyromancer/Nivmagus/burn 2-0.
Won 75% of my games, unfortunately I had the worst upscore of the 3 people going 4-1 thus placing as nr 3.
Hi everybody, first time poster in the Dredge-thread :)
I started playing legacy roughly a year ago. I play at my LGS every week and we average around 30 players. Back when I first started there'd usually be 1 or 2 dredge players most weeks. Naturally, new to the format, Dredge (along with storm-combo) was one of the worst decks to face as I didn't understand half of what was going on.
Anyway, a long time has passed and I have since then picked up storm myself and enjoy it immensely. Recently I've been toying around with the notion of building a dredge deck as I own most of the cards anyway. However, there are now hardly ever any Dredge players at my LGS. I also practically never see Dredge place in SCG-opens. So I guess my question is: How is Dredge positioned in today's Deathrite Shaman infested meta. Is it still a beast of a deck in the right hands or are there simply too many hostile maindecked cards these days?
It seems like a hard deck to play, or at least quite complicated and as such it feels like it would be similar to the challenge of learning storm (not game-plan wise, of course). I'd be quite interested in learning the deck, but maybe not so much if it's just crippled these days.
Hoping for some insight :)
The new deck I'm working on explores Tortured Existence as a powerful utility-facilitator engine. I'm working on refining a list and trying it out at a bigger tournament. Once that happens, you can expect to see some more in-depth info on it. It's like a hybrid of Manaless and non-LED Dredge. This version (probably more than any other variation of Dredge I've played) grinds games out pretty hard.
With lots of other stuff going on right now (namely on the way to being a first-time dad), you guys can imagine how busy I am. I apologize for the delay and will get it out there as soon as I can.
Congrats for the baby Hollywood ^^
Tortured Existence is always a card i loved
i'm impatient to see the build
Color me interested! Ive been taking non LED out for a spin lately (I own LEDs just testing something different).Quote:
The new deck I'm working on explores Tortured Existence as a powerful utility-facilitator engine. I'm working on refining a list and trying it out at a bigger tournament. Once that happens, you can expect to see some more in-depth info on it. It's like a hybrid of Manaless and non-LED Dredge. This version (probably more than any other variation of Dredge I've played) grinds games out pretty hard.
With lots of other stuff going on right now (namely on the way to being a first-time dad), you guys can imagine how busy I am. I apologize for the delay and will get it out there as soon as I can.
I look forward to your list. Meanwhile congrats on the new kid, just wait til they start stealing your MTG for themselves like mine!
Gratulation on your baby aswell !
Hope you didn't take my statement the wrong way, there's no need to apologize. I just wanted to express my impatience for your work :).
I got a Turn 1 (technically?) win with Manaless on MTGO vs Mono-white.
During the games though, Thalia is a BITCH!
Also, how do I insert a video? (if possible)
EDIT: How do you guys fight through turn 1 DRS?