[Deck] Dragon Stompy

...yes, I just play it and let it kill itself in the situations where I need Hellbent (or kill the weakest creature, SSG for example)

I have tested this deck with less than 4 RPDs and it feels so wrong.,.. RPD IS the best finisher in this deck, and I never want to go below 4...

...most decks in the last time on deckcheck played no Sloggers afaik... but I know that they were a few builds with 2 Sloggers and crap like Deus of Calamity


Needle is against everything...

NEVER PLAY LESS THAN 4 PITHING NEEDLE !!!!

It's mentioned thousand times in this thread, and it's right...

Needle is against everything that can wreck us like hell (CoP:R, Deed, EE3) and its much useful against other cards (Survival, Equipment, Vial etc.)

It's a very versatile card, and you will learn to like it, if you play them =)


YawG

"most decks in the last time on deckcheck played no Sloggers afaik... but I know that they were a few builds with 2 Sloggers and crap like Deus of Calamity"

I like kinda like deus as a creature but against control decks I'd rather play Maulers with their cost much easier to swallow

hmm I keep checking Dragon decks every week and there's always 1-3 sloggers so it had to be a long time ago since you checked it.
Dont get me wrong - I dont like Sloggers as well (once you get it on board its fine but theres nothing more frustrating than to not being able to play it or two from your hand :D) but killing your own threats mmmm :eek: Anyway need to test your build with FTK if not successful with Avalanche Riders in that place (there's always a land to destroy).

Are three Jittes not too many?
Are two Moons not to little?

what do you need Boil for? Will it stop Merfolks with vial on board?

the problem with Deus & Demigod is, that you can ONLY play than with Song... they're much more reliable on Song then Slogger is...

FTK can kill itself, if needed but I like to have 4, because I want them against Zoo and the like... ...and like I said before: without Slogger, we need an other anti Aggro creature IMO
(it's somewhat personal style... but it is/was my favorite red creature... but than Goyf was printed, and destroyed his value of killing any cheap creature :cry:)

3 Jittes are sometimes too many... ...like I said, I'm thinking to exchange 1 Jitte with SoLaS

I never had a problem with 6 Moon effects, because they're somewhat dead in the 2nd game if my opponent starts and begins to fetch basics... ...they got a bit weaker since MtG got all 10 Fetchies... but if you want to play the 3rd moon, I would kick RAkroma i think...

Boil can be funny, because they don't always have Vial... but it's not only against Merfolk... Most U/X/X decks, play only the U Duals, so it hits them, too-other than that, it's good against stuff like Landstill and MUC

...and there is something in me, that says I need to play at least 3 Boil ...It's more like my Paranoia against blue :tongue:

btw.... Sulfur > Avalanche Riders IMO


YawG

Just a few questions..

Why (potentially) SoL&S over SoF&I? The two most common tribes in the format are Goblins and Merfolk. In addition you get protection against bounce spells, Dragon Stompy mirrors, D. Dreams & Seismic Assault. L&S protects you from Path/Swords, but you already have Chalice for those, and Tombstalker.

When is Sulfurs white-shrinking ability relevant? Or is it just a 3 power flash for 3 that you like? Just wanted some quantification re: Surfur > Riders. Zoo, Bant Survival & Aggro Loam all run 1 basic forest. I would have thought being able to take it out would make your Moons more relevant.

SoLaS over SoFai because you don't want to draw cards with SoFaI and that screws your Hellbent plan a bit more (the creature retake effect is a may effect, so you can use it only when you want) SoLaS also protects you from bolts, because of the +2/+2

3 lifegain is better than 2 damage in this deck, because of your Tombs, imo


Sulfur Elemental

- acts as pseudo removal due to flash / combattricks
- is uncounterable :cool:
- kills Mother of Runes, White Weenie, Jötun Grunt =P
- is good in response to a Standstill :cool:


YawG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yawgmoth'sWill

Sulfur Elemental

- acts as pseudo removal due to flash / combattricks
- is uncounterable :cool:
- kills Mother of Runes, White Weenie, Jötun Grunt =P
- is good in response to a Standstill :cool:


YawG

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Don't forget that it also kills elspeth tokens which is HUGE

Huge if you play against them yes, but Landstill is no longer a deck to beat nor is it played much anymore. Can't Pithing Needle shut down Elspeth (amongst other things) also?

I get the point tho. If anything I'm starting to like Sulfur over FTK, since they both have decent abilities but Sulfur has a nicer cost :p

The 3 life would be v handy, but I'd rather have protection from a larger % of the field, plus doing 2 damage anywhere, plus drawing a card. Its hard to say if it would screw your hellbent more often than it helped you; every situation where you can draw the extra card and cast it, its a big advantage to you. In which scenarios are those?

Assuming Hellbent, Creature + Fire & Ice:

Draw for the turn: Non-land
Draw with SoFaI: Land
Outcome: Hellbent
And vice versa.

Draw for the turn: Garthan Riders
Draw with SoFaI: Anything
Outcome: Hellbent
And vice versa.

Draw for the turn: '3+' card (~26)
Draw with SoFaI: '0 CC' card (12)
Outcome: Hellbent
And vice versa.

Draw for the turn: '0 CC' card
Draw with SoFaI: '0 CC' card
Outcome: Hellbent
And vice versa.

Draw for the turn: 'Non-Garthan 3+ CC' card (~22)
Draw with SoFaI: 'Non-Garthan 3+ CC' card (~22)
Outcome: No Hellbent (unless you have >=6 mana in play, which case Hellbent)
And vice versa.

Draw for the turn: Land
Draw with SoFaI: Land
Outcome: No Hellbent


I don't know the odds of those, obviously double big-guy and double-land would come up. But as you can see there are a number of other viable ones. I didn't include Jitte in these situations.

There are other considerations. One being when you don't have Hellbent, and are trying to get it. Would SoFaI either be a dead card or make it harder? Quite possibly. Still, versus Merfolk/Goblins/Dragon Stompy would you rather a 7/7 L&S Rider (with Hellbent), or a 5/5 Pro Blue Draw a Card, Deal 2 Damage Rider (No Hellbent)? They can chump block your 7/7 all day, from which you will get no benefits, meanwhile your 5/5 can block all day if required OR attack straight through them. Yes I understand an equipped Flyer will get through regardless, however you only run 4 evasion creatures, with 12-16 others.

Anyways food for thought. I love the deck regardless :)

@overseer1234: ... I KNEW that there was something that I have forgotten, thx for reminding...


@AcidFiend: WOW, just wow...

Draw for the turn: Garthan Riders
Draw with SoFaI: Anything
Outcome: Hellbent
And vice versa.

...vice versa is not true because you play "anything" before you attack for Hellbent and then you aren't guranteed to play the Gathans to keep Hellbent

...regardless of that ...because of you, I just want to test an 2/1/1 Split of Jitte/SoLaS/SoFaI


anyways... I love that deck, too I can't get away from this deck, because it's so awesome IMO

I started in Legacy with Goblin (FCG from Vintage tuned to Legacy)... and wanted to build me an other Legacy deck, so I sold my Goblins... TES, Dredge or DS was the way to go... I decided to build DS... then I sold it a year after it, and played only casual legacy for half a year... built it up again... traded it against Dredge... bought my DS back... sold it after 2 month, played Dredge for the whole next year... ...and have rebuilt it right now... ...you see, I can't get away from it =)


YawG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yawgmoth'sWill

@overseer1234: ... I KNEW that there was something that I have forgotten, thx for reminding...


@AcidFiend: WOW, just wow...

Draw for the turn: Garthan Riders
Draw with SoFaI: Anything
Outcome: Hellbent
And vice versa.

...vice versa is not true because you play "anything" before you attack for Hellbent and then you aren't guranteed to play the Gathans to keep Hellbent

...regardless of that ...because of you, I just want to test an 2/1/1 Split of Jitte/SoLaS/SoFaI


anyways... I love that deck, too I can't get away from this deck, because it's so awesome IMO

I started in Legacy with Goblin (FCG from Vintage tuned to Legacy)... and wanted to build me an other Legacy deck, so I sold my Goblins... TES, Dredge or DS was the way to go... I decided to build DS... then I sold it a year after it, and played only casual legacy for half a year... built it up again... traded it against Dredge... bought my DS back... sold it after 2 month, played Dredge for the whole next year... ...and have rebuilt it right now... ...you see, I can't get away from it =)


YawG

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yea, and don't forget the antisynergy w/rakdos! once u hit someone with firststrike damage, gathan shrinks and ur dragon is back to regular regardless of drawing a land, although an ssg is cool.

I think that given this decks recent performance on Deckcheck.net it is going to become a DTB or DTW

5 Top 4's in the last 2 months seems pretty good.

All five decks featured Seething Song, the lowest ran just two copies. Arc-Slogger was also featured in all the decks, however the majority ran fewer than 3 copies.

FTK hasn't found a foothold yet in these recent lists.

Sideboard "Trap" cards with an :0: alternate cost seem to be worth looking at.

Mindbreak Trap
Ravenous Trap
Summoning Trap

I haven't tested any myself. How do you guys think they compare to traditional answers?

Ravenous Trap's a bad idea because you run Trinisphere. Crypt is better here. Never mind that I just got through arguing Crypt over Trap on a different thread. You're strong against Ichorid anyway, but decks like Reanimator and some red Loam variants can be trouble.

Mindbreak Trap's decent, but do you really need to improve your Storm match beyond 4 Chalice and 4 Trinispheres main?

And Summoning Trap is terrible. End story.

So I was looking again yesterday at 3cc replacements for some of our "compromise" creatures like Sulfur Elemental. I don't think it will be good, but I realized that Crusher Zendikon from the new set can be used on City of Traitors to save it and thought that was kinda cute. It has trample to boot.

yeah, just a rule question, that come over my by testing...

...when I have an RPD in play equipped with an SoFaI and Hellbent...

when RPD attacks,it does his first strike damage, I get to draw a card... ...does he still deal damage in the normal combat damage step, because Hellbent is no longer exists at that time?


YawG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yawgmoth'sWill

yeah, just a rule question, that come over my by testing...

...when I have an RPD in play equipped with an SoFaI and Hellbent...

when RPD attacks,it does his first strike damage, I get to draw a card... ...does he still deal damage in the normal combat damage step, because Hellbent is no longer exists at that time?


YawG

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When you draw the card from the F. strike damage your dragon will lose it's second damage step. The second damage step is for creatures who either have D strike or have not attempted to deal combat damage yet.

Side note: You can discard the card to un-morph a Raider and your dragon will then hit again since he has D strike again.

Testing that:

4 Flametongue Kavu
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Avalanche Riders

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Blood Moon

4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain

SB:

4 Pithing Needle
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
2 Anarchy


Riders are working surprisingly well often taking the only basic that opponent have also working as an attacker (haste) or blocker. Anyway I will test Maulers in that place to compare.

Rakdos Dragons are tremendous even without Seething Songs, three Jittes are too many (imho) two Moons (too little).

I used to play with 10 mountains and 4 moons but mws shuffling code keeps annoying me with mana screws. I guess in real 10 mountains will be enough

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

Ravenous Trap's a bad idea because you run Trinisphere. Crypt is better here. Never mind that I just got through arguing Crypt over Trap on a different thread. You're strong against Ichorid anyway, but decks like Reanimator and some red Loam variants can be trouble.

Mindbreak Trap's decent, but do you really need to improve your Storm match beyond 4 Chalice and 4 Trinispheres main?

And Summoning Trap is terrible. End story.

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When I saw the list with summoning pact, i realized that it's kinda crazy! I don't use it myself, but i thought of how well it exploded on counter. on bant, a first turn force on bloodmoon could be responded with topping off magus or akroma. I tried it out, and you usually get at least one good thing every seven cards. As with others tho, it sux late game, and u can beat BANT w/o it technically.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damionblackgear

When you draw the card from the F. strike damage your dragon will lose it's second damage step. The second damage step is for creatures who either have D strike or have not attempted to deal combat damage yet.

Side note: You can discard the card to un-morph a Raider and your dragon will then hit again since he has D strike again.

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Please note that extensive testing by the experts of the deck (not me) have concluded that this is not really an issue, since if you have a RPD attacking with a SOFI, you are probably in a good position anyway.

So don't let this factor into your decision in running SOFI or not.

WOOT

...there is a huge difference between SoLas and SoFaI in such a Situation...


...if unblocked RPD (no pump) with Sword equipped:

SoFaI = 5 damage + 2 extra damage + draw a card

SoLas = 10 damage + 6 life + being able to return a creatue to your hand (after 2nd strike)

...whats better, huh?


why not make a good situation even better??? SoLaS is clearly the winner here...

...don't forget that on a flying RPD, SoLaS owns the two only relevant flying creatures (Stalker & Baneslayer) [and protects from removal and Bolts] ...you even can race Iona with SoLaS on RPD, lol =P



@AmokPL: in reallife (not MWS) I would play -1 Mountain, +1 SoLaS instead of the 4th Moon.


YawG

I have a question, I am thinking about running either this or Goblins in GP Madrid; what are this decks matchups? I think Goblins is slightly favored, combo is favored, 43 lands obviously is, Merfolk looks quite hard?, but Im unsure about Tempo Thresh, Zoo, CB/Top and Bant Survival. Could anyone give me pointers?