Standstill draws 50% more cards than Predict. 50 is a large percent. Imagine if your income were to increase by 50%, or if your dick were to grow 50% in length and you'll have a better understanding of what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
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Standstill draws 50% more cards than Predict. 50 is a large percent. Imagine if your income were to increase by 50%, or if your dick were to grow 50% in length and you'll have a better understanding of what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
is your dick 3 inches?
But seriously you're only gonna cast predict when u have a top or a brainstorm and in that case you'll just dump the one bad card.
Small sacrifice for instant speed and no board requirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
I do not endorse this comment. Drawing three is a LOT better than drawing two. Imagine if Thoughtcast draw 3. It would be the most played deck in the format (Affinity), or at least some sort of deck to abuse it.
Again, the difference between 2 cards and one bad card and two cards is negligible.
Where do you get this "one card is useless" argument? It makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
By saying that one of the cards drawn from Standstill is useless, is stupid. As well a card from Predict can be useless.
Think of it another way. You can force the early threat to drop a Standstill on a clean board. So your transaction looks like this:
+1 Threat of the opponents
-1 FoW
-1 Blue Card (and 1 life but irrelevant for this math)
-1 Standstill
+3 Top Cards
Result: +1 Card
With Predict if you set it up:
+1 Threat of the opponents
-1 FoW
-1 Blue Card (and 1 life but irrelevant for this math)
-1 Predict
+2 Top Cards
Result: 0 Cards with the worst card in the bin, so you dug just as far as Standstill
IF you had a use for getting the card in the bin (E.g. it's LftL, Bloodghast, attaining Threshold, etc.) then Predict would be better. Unfortunately, for Dreadstill raw cards matter when you are a control deck that easily gets 2 for 1ed on its main win condition.
I'm using predict as a supplement to Confidant and Jace, not as the only draw engine. Predict already fits naturally with the game plan. Standstill forces you to run mishras.
Standstill is in fact a terrible card, but recognize that the 1 card difference is pretty big.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
PS.
Want to go to Knight Ware today?
Ok maybe that was worded poorly. I just meant that although every card serves a purpose and is inherently valuable, there is always one card that is relatively worse than the others given the current state of the game (unless of course all three cards are identical) and it is often the case that one is not useful at that moment. Both Standstill and Predict refresh the top 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
I'd also like to point out that Standstill does not interact very well with Spell Snare and Stifle.
thats ture.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
The first 8 cards in the deck are 4 Brainstorm and 4 Force of Will. Even if the "bad" card does nothing except pitch to Force or get filtered with Brainstorm, it is very useful. I do not understand how you can draw this conclusion that the difference between 2 and 3 is negligible.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
For Stifle that is true, but what do you mean by addressing Spell Snare? By that logic Force of Will is bad with Standstil, which we all know not to be the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
If you want to persuade people to try Predict instead of Standstill by arguments, by all means, but please be logical in your argumentation. Now you're just being confusing.
Standstill is a terrible card. It will never pull you out of a losing position, it will never save your ass from that one card, and it will never be good against a lot of decks. That being said, drawing three cards is very powerful.
Standstill is only good on a neutral or positive board position, which is not a good thing. Plus, if they have Wastelands and manlands (like Landstill or Merfolk), you will feel very awkward when they answer all your threats and just keep playing them, forcing you to break your own Standstill. Also, if you play Standstill without a threat or a Top out, the EOT break just makes it a waste of a card. The number of times I've seen Standstill be dead is insane, Predict is never dead, ever.
This deck already runs a lot of situational cards (Stifle, Trickbind, and Dreadnought), adding more, in the form of Standstill, seems like a mistake. Predict is a strong card with all of the card filtering that is in this deck. When you cast a Brainstorm or have a Top in play, Predict makes a very good draw 3 impression, which is what I think keys was trying to say (sometimes you get dead cards with Standstill, so not drawing that card doesn't make a huge difference), but it is almost strictly worse than drawing three cards.
In conclusion, Predict is a better card because it can help pull you out of a shitty situation. It also lets you run a less shitty mana base (aka, more basics main, no Mishra's...). Although, because of the loss of Factory, Swords to Plowshares might have to find a way to the main deck.
P.S.
This is horrible logic. Following this logic, Levitation is good. IT PITCHES TO FORCE OF WILL, GETS PUT BACK BY BRAINSTORM, AND IS USELESS WHEN YOU'RE LOSING! Running a card solely to not play it is a horrible idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Suave
P.P.S.
Is this entire thread completely lacking in logic? Force of Will if good when you drop a Standstill because you don't have to pay mana to counter their card, it is typically a challenge to cast a Spell Snare with no lands untapped. This is only relevant when you have no mana untapped (like when you cast Standstill on turn 2).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
Predict lets you cast it at their endstep, meaning you do not have to tap out while they can drop Survival, Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, or other, similar cards.
P.P.P.S.
One thing I do want to tell people, Dark Confidant is not the clutch in the Counterbalance mirror. Counterbalance is the best card in that match., I watched someone fight over their Dark Confidant, and then be forced to watch as they cast a Counterbalance and blanked all the extra cards that they drew.
Of course, it is frustrating to try and contribute to this website only to be attacked in such a manner, particularly by someone who has yet to demonstrate an understanding of the logic he is critiquing.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
I was not arguing to run sub-optimal cards, I was arguing that drawing 3 cards is better than drawing 2. In this light, the logic is quite simple and is akin to the 2nd grade lesson "3 is greater than 2." Perhaps some references to alligator mouths eating the larger number will help illuminate the idea I am trying to express.
No, what I'm saying is that having a free Levitation in hand is better than not having one at all.
You'll have to understand if I don't care enough right now to go into details about why much of your post is inaccurate.
Its all a matter of opinion, I think I'm right and you think I'm not. No worries, you don't have to play Predict, Standstill has been dead for me far too many times.
standstill is why this deck is called Dreastill... so if you want to play predict, maybe you can make a new thread... dont mean to be a dick and all but this is the DREADSTILL thread and stand still is why the deck is called Dreadstill. Im sure Predict is nice and all but it would change the name of the deck to Predictnought or dreadpredict.... no not trying to be funny... sure it sounds funny but its not a joke. This deck is named Dreadstill and should remain Dreadstill
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
Thank you Mr. Obvious, but we're trying to determine whether or not the +1 card drawn from Standstill is enough of an advantage over Predict to justify it's drawbacks. I'm arguing that it does not outweigh the drawbacks, and simultaneously that Predict is an underrated substitute. If you followed my reasoning and tested the card, you might come to the same conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Suave
This is entirely relevant to Dreadstill discussion. If you read through the thread you would see that it has been for a long time now.Quote:
Originally Posted by affinitypimp
Why don't we create a visual representation of the advantages and disadvantages of Standstill vs. Predict:
Standstill
Advantages:
1. Draws three cards instead of two
2. Refreshes the top three for SDT/Brainstorm
Disadvantages:
1. Requires a board that is in your favor or neutral
2. Weakness against decks with fast creatures (Zoo, Survival), Vial (Goblins, Merfolk, D&T), or more man-lands/Wastelands (Landstill)
3. Pumps Goyf (assuming you're not playing Goyf)
4. Flash creatures can blow you out
5. Sorcery speed
6. Allows opponent to regain tempo lost from Stifle/Wasteland
Predict
Advantages:
1. Refreshes the top three
2. Instant speed
3. Can be used on your opponent to mill SDT, a card tutored with E Tutor/Sterling Grove, or Doomsday piles
4. Can be cycled if conditions aren't met
Disadvantages:
1. Requires a way to manipulate the top 3 (SDT, Jace, Brainstorm)
2. Draws 2 cards instead of 3
Am I missing anything?
yeah, which is why im saying now that we should keep this organized... i was on here with another name a pretty long time ago and if dreadstill sucks now in any meta... then it should be completely deleted from established decks... but its still an established deck in its own right so we should allow Standstill to be a card that sticks with the deck and not say stupid things like "awwww qq more, predict is better..." "standstill sucks cause its conditional... yeah" IMO, sure play Predeict, its a good card too, but it shouldnt be replacing standstill cause the deck is based on Standstill being the soul of the deck (the draw engine that if u dont know how to use with the deck then u shouldnt be playign this deck).Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
But seriously, saying that Standstill is conditional is like saying.... Dreadnought is conditional... so we should run another creature that is huge with little to no conditions having to be met (goyf??)
This is kind of a ridiculous debate that's going on here. Personally, I'm on the Standstill side of this debate.
Here's the reasons running Standstill is good:
a) +2 CA in a 2 mana spell. This means that you have a significant CA advantage (hopefully) after they break it and therefore have a greater opportunity value (more options = better).
b) while they haven't broken it, you increase opportunity value further by digging for useful cards. The game state is generally not going to change much while it's up (unless they run vial).
Here's why Predict is bad:
a) it digs poorly; the chance that you'll gain CA is incredibly low w/o depending on other mana sinks (card quality).
b) we have no way to use the gy.
What we lose when we run Standstill:
a) instant speed card draw (it's not like brainstorm vs. ponder, this is a very slight difference because it's not card filtering)
b) need to be in a slightly better position to cast it (this actually is a slightly good point if it weren't for the fact that spending 3 mana to draw two cards pretty much = you're winning if you aren't spending it on business) (basically, think of standstill as a win-con/protector of win-con)
When you look at how conditional predict is, I can't really see a reason you'd run it in this deck (1 card is much < 3 cards).
EDIT: woah, two people posted while I was typing this up. need to increase wpm XD
I counted 2 advantages and 6 disadvantages for Standstill, versus 4 advantages and 2 disadvantages for Predict. See my list above.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowvamp
1. Threads are not removed from Established if they start performing poorly.Quote:
Originally Posted by affinitypimp
2. Standstill is not "the soul of the deck"... closed off thinking like this will guarantee that the deck never evolves.
3. Dreadnought is not conditional in the same way that Standstill is conditional. This is the definition of a weak analogy:
(1) A and B are similar.
(2) A has a certain characteristic.
Therefore:
(3) B must have that characteristic too.
Finally, I just want to reiterate that Dark Confidant is a better draw engine that both, and I advocate running 4. However, I believe that Predict is a better supplement than Standstill is.