[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBlaze

Survival of the Fittest went from $30 to $60 over the last couple days. Pure speculation or could there be something more to it?

---

A while back just before a b&r update these was some speculation on the unbanning of sotf. Some really thought it was going to happen. At that time prizes where going up on MCM and people started buying playsets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pastorofmuppets

Quote:

---

I don't even think it counts as a joke. Not like Chimney Pimp and Yoked Plowbeast.

---

Don't talk shit about ChImp. I've won EDH games with it in Varolz.

---

I play plowbeasts in my "A Peaceful Realm" EDH. So much farmers, animals a plowshares!

Some swords, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobmans

A while back just before a b&r update these was some speculation on the unbanning of sotf. Some really thought it was going to happen. At that time prizes where going up on MCM and people started buying playsets.

---

When did that happen? Because the price timeline since it's ban never shows such a spike like we experience it now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barook

When did that happen? Because the price timeline since it's ban never shows such a spike like we experience it now.

---

Born of the gods shows a slight rise and drops right after release. But i can't recall if it was the same period as i was talking about. Also the price rise was visible on MCM. I am not sure if you can backtrack on MCM. Will have to check it out another time... smartphone...

So someone faked a screencap of the B&R announcement the day before indicating that BBE would be unbanned in Modern. People then went and bought up all the $.50 BBE and began listing them for $4-6 each on eBay.

Now they are down to about $3.50

This hobby is nuts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Star|Scream

So someone faked a screencap of the B&R announcement the day before indicating that BBE would be unbanned in Modern. People then went and bought up all the $.50 BBE and began listing them for $4-6 each on eBay.

Now they are down to about $3.50

This hobby is nuts.

---

It was going up even before the screenie. Same thing was happening with Ancestral Vision.

Also sillier was the troll, which went (online) from 6 to 13 overnight, and then dropped to 10. All this in the space of a day.

I heard an interesting rumor today at the LGS. Basically, the gentleman was saying that one or two people were buying up P9 last year to the tune of 200k-500k. Has anyone heard anything about this? Baseless rumor or is it well known and I somehow missed it? If this is true, the eventual sell off could be pretty devastating to both the price and collector confidence.

SCG and Dan Bach have been buying up power and thus artificially inflating its value.

I cancelled a sale on MCM yesterday. StarCityGames-account wanted to buy my foil goyfs and also bought alot of the foil goyfs that were cheaper than a certain price. They are now gone and sold. Also, one of the playsets more expensive than mine was sold yesterday. Beware, goyf-buylist-price increase to be expected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by useL

I cancelled a sale on MCM yesterday. StarCityGames-account wanted to buy my foil goyfs and also bought alot of the foil goyfs that were cheaper than a certain price. They are now gone and sold. Also, one of the playsets more expensive than mine was sold yesterday. Beware, goyf-buylist-price increase to be expected.

---

I always wonder what is the problem here and in similar cases, as you seem to imply that there is some. You want to sell at certain price, they want to buy, should be fairly easy to connect the dots.

Usually stores buy stuff because they are sold out and they need more stuff to sell to people. If something is sold out, it usually means that the seller sees the situations as such where the price was too low and during the next round raises the price. This naturally also ups the buy-in price. No conspiracy or abuse needed to explain ny of this.

If you start to speculate on others speculating and turn down business based on that, it's kind of silly, don't you think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hopo

Usually stores buy stuff because they are sold out and they need more stuff to sell to people.

---

It's a very naive way of thinking imo. Stores do speculate on prices and try to benefit from the fluctuations in the chaotic, unregulated market that is the Mtg singles. And why wouldn't they? They have money to do so, it is their business, and there's nothing to prevent them from doing so.

If I want to sell card X for $100 and I see SCG buying all of the card Xs cheaper than $101 I don't want to sell it for $100 anymore because I know next week it will probably sell for $120. Pretty simple logic really. If average Joe wants to buy my card for $100 I'm happy to sell it because who the fuck knows what will happen tomorrow?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hopo

I always wonder what is the problem here and in similar cases, as you seem to imply that there is some. You want to sell at certain price, they want to buy, should be fairly easy to connect the dots.

Usually stores buy stuff because they are sold out and they need more stuff to sell to people. If something is sold out, it usually means that the seller sees the situations as such where the price was too low and during the next round raises the price. This naturally also ups the buy-in price. No conspiracy or abuse needed to explain ny of this.

If you start to speculate on others speculating and turn down business based on that, it's kind of silly, don't you think?

---

That's rational thinking. If you do not need money there is no rush to sell.

well Scg basicaly runs mtg prices that's the problem, unlike normal world this is really easy in magic due to low prints and no regulations existing, add insider information from wotc and they can't lose money ever on anything rational they do, well anyone with a lot of money can do that to some extent

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nodahero

SCG and Dan Bach have been buying up power and thus artificially inflating its value.

---

Incorrect. The reason prices have gone up, is actually directly linked to GP Richmond, where blue ZEN fetches, Goyf's, Lilianas and Bob's had gone up alot in price.

This meant people wanted to trade their off their modern cards for duals/power. This meant you could, often, find 2 fetches + something worth 15$ for a underground sea trade, which for most people is utterly shit. Prices went up for duals, which meant power went up too.

Also, people actually buy into vintage. A lot of the old magicplayers are adults now, with income, and they have a real interest in playing the format.

Also: He is called Dan Bock, NOT Dan Bach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

That's rational thinking... can't lose money ever on anything rational they do, well anyone with a lot of money can do that to some extent

---

That'S what I wanted to do now when I got myself lots of until-now-bound-in-cardboard money from the collection/decks I sold recently. There's nothing special about "buy for 70 % of ČR's prices, sell for 80 % of the same price", just like Tom does it since his 14 years when he started with a nickelback in his bum bag.
But then I imagined the horrible work with this and the need to meet the people and I rather decided to purchase sofa, bookcase, highway vignettes, kitchenette and a playset of wintergummi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

That'S what I wanted to do now when I got myself lots of until-now-bound-in-cardboard money from the collection/decks I sold recently. There's nothing special about "buy for 70 % of ČR's prices, sell for 80 % of the same price", just like Tom does it since his 14 years when he started with a nickelback in his bum bag.
But then I imagined the horrible work with this and the need to meet the people and I rather decided to purchase sofa, bookcase, highway vignettes, kitchenette and wintergummi.

---

I meant more global stuff to spike prices worldwide like there was a run on foil fetches etc. ... but if anyone was putting all his cash into old cards last 5 years, it was damn good investment (better than vintage cars compared to some economy article I read - they reviewed best x year investment opportunities) and there is no presure to sell yet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

I meant more global stuff to spike prices worldwide like there was a run on foil fetches etc. ... but if anyone was putting all his cash into old cards last 5 years, it was damn good investment (better than vintage cars compared to some economy article I read - they reviewed best x year investment opportunities) and there is no presure to sell yet

---

Otoh, foil fetches are not Your Usual Stuff, and the thing you wrote about is more like a speculation/hoarding than a continuous shop-like behaviour when you buy w/e the 70% chase rare and sell it for 80%. I guess that once you got yourself past some point (say 50-200 thousands of "free" crowns, depending on your other income and such stuff), you're pretty much guaranteed to nomore ever spend a mere buck as the mere 10% margin leaves you with enough monthly salary (say 5k CZK) to make your hobby pay for itself. Lets imagine the perfect situation (no fluctuations, no cards lost in transit, no rip-offs, etc.) when your turnover is 100 thousand/month (not unlikely, I sold just a few cards with no real troubles and effort, and got some 1/3 of that amount), then a 5-10% margin gets you what a cashier in Debilla works for, while she's having all kinds of weekend shifts and much such crap that you surely won't undercome when selling cardboard crack to lgs occupants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hopo

I always wonder what is the problem here and in similar cases, as you seem to imply that there is some. You want to sell at certain price, they want to buy, should be fairly easy to connect the dots.

Usually stores buy stuff because they are sold out and they need more stuff to sell to people. If something is sold out, it usually means that the seller sees the situations as such where the price was too low and during the next round raises the price. This naturally also ups the buy-in price. No conspiracy or abuse needed to explain ny of this.

If you start to speculate on others speculating and turn down business based on that, it's kind of silly, don't you think?

---

I think things like foil goyfs are in low enough supply that the price can be manipulated if enough are bought. It wouldn't be the first time something like this happened I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by phonics

I think things like foil goyfs are in low enough supply that the price can be manipulated if enough are bought. It wouldn't be the first time something like this happened I think.

---

It happened several times here in Europe, most notably the Duals when SCG bought them in a massive fashion. They exploded in price in 2-3 days, especially the blue ones, which went up by 90% or even more (I'm looking at you Underground Sea). Same thing happened with the Zendrika Fetches.

Greetings,
Kathal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by phonics

I think things like foil goyfs are in low enough supply that the price can be manipulated if enough are bought. It wouldn't be the first time something like this happened I think.

---

Question is: well, isn't that a pretty dangerous speculation? The market for foil Goyfs is quite a limited, I'd guess. One may easily end with a box of cards he'll never move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

Question is: well, isn't that a pretty dangerous speculation? The market for foil Goyfs is quite a limited, I'd guess. One may easily end with a box of cards he'll never move.

---

Well they bought my FOIL Worldwake Jaces with their MCM account as well, so I can verify them buying premium stuff in Europe.

Weeks later FtV Jace was announced, so I'm fine ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by useL

I cancelled a sale on MCM yesterday. StarCityGames-account wanted to buy my foil goyfs and also bought alot of the foil goyfs that were cheaper than a certain price. They are now gone and sold. Also, one of the playsets more expensive than mine was sold yesterday. Beware, goyf-buylist-price increase to be expected.

---

From Future Sight or Modern Masters?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

From Future Sight or Modern Masters?

---

Does it really matter? Now that graveyards matter again for more than being removed for Cruise, Goyf and DRS will go up in any case

Someone please explain this one; http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Legends/Reset#paper

What the fuck happened here? How does a card in a dead archetype spike 20+ dollars from mid-December to mid-January (1 month) without t8ing any events?

Legends rare/possible speculation, I believe Feline was playing a solidarity variant with Dig Through Times (whether or not that worked out, I couldn't tell you)

That or someone really thinks Frantic Search is going to be unbanned

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kanti

Someone please explain this one; http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Legends/Reset#paper

What the fuck happened here? How does a card in a dead archetype spike 20+ dollars from mid-December to mid-January (1 month) without t8ing any events?

---

Played in Reset-High Tide with 4x Dig Through Time. It's a old rare, with limited supply, so chances are you're not getting burned if it doesn't spike and gain a lot if it actually does spike.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

That's rational thinking. If you do not need money there is no rush to sell.

well Scg basicaly runs mtg prices that's the problem, unlike normal world this is really easy in magic due to low prints and no regulations existing, add insider information from wotc and they can't lose money ever on anything rational they do, well anyone with a lot of money can do that to some extent

---

It'll be even easier for SCG to buy out MKM from specific cards in near future due to USD ($) rising to almost 1:1 ratio compared to EUR (€). Aka more buying power for US citizens

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quasim0ff

Played in Reset-High Tide with 4x Dig Through Time. It's a old rare, with limited supply, so chances are you're not getting burned if it doesn't spike and gain a lot if it actually does spike.

---

sure but its not on the reserve list.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by apple713

sure but its not on the reserve list.

---

No, it's not.

There is VERY little reason to believe it'll ever be reprinted again, as the card is so different than any of the cards wizards have a tendency to print now a days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quasim0ff

No, it's not.

There is VERY little reason to believe it'll ever be reprinted again, as the card is so different than any of the cards wizards have a tendency to print now a days.

---

Other than probably being an obvious reprint in a Legacy Masters set, you mean?

It just came to my attention that regular foil Hurkyl's Recall is 3 figures where regular is an understatement.

Perhaps it’s not permitted to bitch about Magic Online prices, but considering that Daze is close to $30 (ten times the paper price) and Wasteland is $115 (closing in on double the paper price), I mean, come on, things online are often worse than in paper, given the much greater chance that you’ll be burned when they inevitably reprint staples. I realize that Wizards has no obligation to keep Magic Online prices in check, but they certainly could and I can’t understand how they let things like this happen. I mean, we’re talking a common and an uncommon that are played in a lot of decks and people are severely limited in their choices by this situation. Also, since reprints of these cards could happen at any time, it’s hard to motivate oneself to spend $120 for a play-set worth of Dazes. Consider the store of Force of Will. Force of Will was a $130 card. Then it became a MOCS promo and it fell to around $70 or so. Then VMA was released and it fell to $30. I bought at the MOCS promo price, thinking that VMA wouldn’t include it, considering that it had been a MOCS promo just a couple of months before the VMA release. Stupid me, but in a grander scale, how can anyone safely enter the Legacy format online? You’re bound to be burned. Bad. I can’t see how Wizards gains anything by this situation, but perhaps there’s some thought behind it? Like keeping people from playing Legacy online and instead opting for Standard?

But it goes deeper than a couple of cards in the way-too-limited-availability category. So far, my online collection is a huge loss. Buying power was a total waste, as not only has my five pieces lost about $135 since I purchased them, the daily events never seem to fire. Why? Because power was made too scarce, so no one has it. And since no one has it, the prices of power steadily declined, as they’re not usable for play, as the dailies aren’t firing and, as we all know, being proud of your online collection is rather unsatisfying, so there’s no collector’s value either.

I’m not saying that I expected my online collection to turn a profit. I fully expected to make a loss, but accepted it, as I wanted easy access to play Legacy. That motivation is hard to maintain when switching (or building new) decks requires such great additional investments.

I’m not sure what I’m looking for here. Perhaps reasons to stay motivated? How do you keep yourself motivated in the online arena? Perhaps someone who’ll tell me that they’ll stop making stupid MOCS promos like Goblin Rabblemaster and again trying to keep some cards in check by reprinting them?

I'm not into Magic Online, in fact I don't have it installed. But what you wrote is unbelievable. I knew that the prices wildly vary between the two matrices, but the examples you gave us... wow. I guess there's little point in MO, as the prices are similarly absurd as irl, there's absolutely no uncertainty of what's next to reprint, the low numbers of events fired make the collection useless and contrary to cardboard, there's no inherent collector's value, neither you can bring it to the pub to have fun with the crap decks or brag with your stuff.
Interesting read.

So far it looks like that future lies in free clients like MWS. Bah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

I'm not into Magic Online, in fact I don't have it installed. But what you wrote is unbelievable. I knew that the prices wildly vary between the two matrices, but the examples you gave us... wow. I guess there's little point in MO, as the prices are similarly absurd as irl, there's absolutely no uncertainty of what's next to reprint, the low numbers of events fired make the collection useless and contrary to cardboard, there's no inherent collector's value, neither you can bring it to the pub to have fun with the crap decks or brag with your stuff.
Interesting read.

So far it looks like that future lies in free clients like MWS. Bah.

---

The idea transferring paper card scarcity&trading principles into virtuality looked ridiculous first I heard of it... Doesn't a monthly fee (access to all cards) + entry to tournaments make sense? who does come to MODO to collect? - no one cares, you just buy your cards you need to play X.. I don't think Wotc needs to feed traders (shops) with speculation opportunities for MODO to operate (maybe players to operate?) like in real world .... I kind of accepted the state of things but still feels stupid and discouriging

...MWS is where you spend 20 mins of your life to get a n00b quit, the financial aspect of MODO gives you the minimal guaranties to get a decent game or a compensation

and first of all due to complicated rules and fact that normal friendly match of magic is ~few minutes net time - MtG is definitely not a game for online play in the first place imo...

I would argue that MODO is a Wasteland reprint away from having the Legacy scene explode there.
Most of the staples have been heavily reprinted except for Wasteland and to a lesser extent, Rishadan Port. As a result, the metagame is heavily skewed to non-Wasteland decks, being Elves, Miracles, AnT and URx control.

The current model is still a cash cow for Wizards, no matter how badly the MTGO team fucks up. It's a sad state of affairs, but that's how it is.

Why they don't put out decent MOCS promos anymore, I don't know. There are tons of expensive cards that need reprints and a decent promo makes people go play events alot. It's like they hate money, but hey, Mike Turian is fucking retarded and I really hope he gets moved to a position where he can't harm anything like he currently does.

MODO is completely disgusting. Having to pay a significant amount of money for your digital cards that you don't actually own, the gradual neutering of prize support and on top of that, the fact that the program itself is complete garbage, I will never use it out of principle. But most people are fine with these things which allows Wizards to get away with it.

There is just something that can not be understated about having another person across the table from you.

You like potato and I like potahto
You like tomato and I like tomahto
Potato, potahto, Tomato, tomahto.
Let's call the whole thing off

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/chk/201.jpg

Lost but peaking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

...MWS is where you spend 20 mins of your life to get a n00b quit, the financial aspect of MODO gives you the minimal guaranties to get a decent game or a compensation

---

Well, yet the financial aspect is silly. I seriously doubt that I'd enjoy a game where set of Dazes costs 120 bucks...