Printable View
Sorry to hear that. Rogue's Passage seems infinitely bad. A colorless land that's only useful with 5 mana and creatures in play just doesn't seem relevant at all. There are significantly better options for giving the deck reach - namely equipment and MOM to provide color protection or running creatures with evasion built in.Quote:
Originally Posted by haganbmj
I've seen it win games. It's (kind of) legit
I've been toying around with the idea of Rogue's passage, but could never whole-heartedly commit it to the deck. One big consideration is what land to cut, and it boils down to Horizon Canopy, Maze of Ith or your Depths Stage combo.
While it is a card that will win games via a hexproof and equipped Sigarda or a Knight, it's role for me is only capitalized on if the game goes on a stalemate.
6-3 to miss day 2 at GP DC with Vial Maverick (similar to door's Ovinogeddon list), punted g3 of round 9 spectacularly (missing an on board kill) and absolutely should have made it to day 2. I'll post a full report and a list in a bit.
The box summary: 2-1 vs Grixis Delver, 2-0 vs Miracles, 2-0 vs Fish, 2-1 vs Punishing Loam, 0-2 vs Deathblade (w/Nemesis), 1-2 vs Loam Pox, 2-0 vs ANT, 2-1 vs Junk, 1-2 vs Elves. Only actual punt was the last game of the day, but I was punted to in multiple games and got very lucky in a couple more. I absolutely should have made day 2. The deck felt extremely solid and I felt as if I only lost to poor play and variance, rather than poorly building the deck or playing the wrong strategy. A couple rounds were more or less gifted to me by opponents drawing or playing terribly, but overall I think the deck performed quite well.
EDIT
Here's the list:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Sylvan Library
1 Crop Rotation
4 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Cavern of Souls
SB:
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Cataclysm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Crop Rotation
3 Ethersworn Canonist
The list is tweaked from door's list. I didn't like Safekeeper as much, added a second Stoneforge, and switched out Garruk for Elspeth. I also preferred Canonist to Mindbreak Trap in the board, and splashed for Zealous Persecution in anticipation of TNN and Elves.
Round 1 I played against Grixis Delver, and I absolutely should not have won the match, but my opponent was hoping to burn me out in game 1 and so aimed Bolts at my head instead of killing a dude in response to me equipping Sword of Fire and Ice. As it turned out, I also had Jitte, so when he put me to 3 with a flipped Delver in play and a Bolt in hand, I just slammed Jitte onto my Sword-equipped guy and put myself way out of reach. Game two he beat me pretty easily due to me having no good options and playing into his disruption and removal, but game 3 I curved Mom into Thalia and he fumbled a play with Stifle (forgetting the Thalia tax) that let me Wasteland him off the mana he needed to do anything relevant. Time was called and he graciously conceded to me on turn 1 of extra turns rather than maybe force the draw.
Round 2 I played against UW Miracles (the Karakas/Clique/Venser version with no Helm) and I got lucky enough to resolve an early Vial in game 1 and then draw my singleton Teeg. Vialing Teeg in response to a Terminus miracle trigger blew him out, and while he kept up a good fight with flash dudes and spot removal, I kept Karakas + Vial open to protect Teeg at all times and he eventually got beat down. In game 2 I curved Wayfarer into Thalia, then cast a turn 3 Revoker, against his board of Top, 2 basics, and a fetch. In response to Revoker he flipped Top (without looking first!), and something told me I should name Jace, the Mind Sculptor instead of blanking Top ... he fetched and shuffled his Top away in order to play a Clique at the end of my turn, bottomed his own Pithing Needle with Clique, untapped, attacked and passed. I figured I had probably hit with Revoker if he had no play, so when I untapped and played Cradle to power out a Sword of Fire and Ice and equip it, I equipped to Thalia instead of Revoker. He Plowed Thalia in response, I got in for 3, he untapped, drew for his turn, and scooped, showing me a hand of 3x Jace and 2 land. Leveled! I think a better and more careful/conservative Miracles player would have destroyed me in this game, but I'll take it.
In round 3 I played against Fish. He opened with Island, Cursecatcher, followed by Wasteland, Standstill. I had a bunch of lands in my hand (including a Wasteland for potential Mutavaults) so I was totally fine with just hitting land drops for the next 5 turns while taking 1 a turn. Turned out he had no lands and ended up discarding a few times. When I ran out of land drops I just started casting multiple spells a turn, building a massive board presence very quickly and ending the game in two swings of a Jitte/SoFI-equipped Knight, and paying no attention whatsoever to the multiple True-Name Nemesis he had finally started to deploy. Game 2 I had a Cavern in my opening hand, so I got to resolve Knights on turns 3 and 4. He got a few fish out and had attacked for the first time with a 4/2 Nemesis when I EOT tutored for Marit Lage and killed him. This match was not close. A good player would have mulled his G1 hand for certain and it would have maybe been a real game, but I don't think he had a chance in G2.
Round 4 I played against Punishing Loam. I got brutalized in G1, when my opening of Vial -> Vial, 1-drop, 1-drop was reduced to 0 permanents by a maindeck Ancient Grudge and a Devastating Dreams for 2. I watched him dredge for a few turns with no permanents in play to see what he was doing and then scooped. G2 he opened on Mox Diamond -> Thoughtseize -> Cabal Therapy, ripping a Knight and a Sylvan Library out of my hand, but the card he left me was Phyrexian Revoker and it turned out he got screwed out of the next several turns of the game by Revoker naming Mox Diamond. I found a Vial and a Cataclysm before he could get a threat online and then started ripping sick 2-drops and he died. In game 3 it came down to a Knight battle, but his Bojuka Bog was sitting useless in his sideboard (a severe oversight, given that he had seen Knight in my hand the previous game) and mine was not, and he misplayed a Liliana allowing me to attack her to death, so my bigger Knights prevailed. This guy was a better player than he acted in this round, and he knew that the match was entirely his to lose, but he rallied and I think he went pretty deep into day 2 and almost cashed.
Round 5 I played against Esper Deathblade and it was not a close match, I got thoroughly outdrawn. My opponent found 3x Deathrite and 2x Stoneforge Mystic in the first 4 turns of G1, and while I almost stabilized with Revoker on Jitte and Mom/Scryb to prevent profitable attacks, his 4th Deathrite off the top did the final points. In game 2 he had Swords to Plowshares for my turn 1 Mom, turn 2 Revoker, AND turn 3 Knight, and when he played a True-Name and equipped it with a Jitte, I had one out: draw the Marit Lage combo. I actually did draw both halves of it, but by that point he needed to literally have 3 complete blanks in hand and 2 more on top in order for me to successfully race him, and as it turned out he had a Wasteland and I was just very dead. I think the matchup against this deck is winnable, and if I had drawn as well as he did it would've been a competitive game, but I just didn't and he executed his plan well. This player ended in top 64.
Round 6 I played against Loam Pox. He did what Pox does in game 1 and I scooped to him Loaming back a Tabernacle and a Wasteland while I had 1 or 2 permanents at most and no cards in hand. In game 2 I had a strong series of draws and managed to Vial in a Knight right as he ran out of resources, which by that point was a 2-turn clock due to the number of my lands he had killed. He missed on Innocent Blood and it got there. In game 3 we whittled each other down until I had a Vial on 2 and he had a Liliana on 1 counter. I felt pretty good about this game state, but I drew 4 lands on my next 5 draw steps and ended up dying to Cursed Scroll and Mishra's Factory. I might've been able to cut down on his clock by Wastelanding his Factory instead of his Bayou (I was more scared of Loam than I was of the top of my deck being no action at all) but I'm pretty sure I just lost to variance on this one.
Round 7 was basically a gift, I played against ANT and ripped perfect after keeping a terrible hand in G1, putting a topdeck Teeg in play on turn 4 (he had stalled on mana after his first turn) and effectively ending the game on the spot. In game 2 I played Revokers on LED and Petal, but he went off with Ad Nauseum on my third end step, from 18 life, and hit 12 cantrips, 2 land, 1 Empty the Warrens, and 1 Cabal Ritual ... in other words, nothing at all. He untapped, Brainstormed twice looking for the nuts (he did not find it), and conceded. Magic is a skill game sometimes.
Round 8 I played against a removal-heavy Junk/Rock deck, packing Goyfs, Stoneforges, Sinkholes, Vindicates, Decays, Bobs, Deathrites ... just a lot of 1-for-1s and attrition engines. However, I nutted him in game 1 with Vial -> Mom + Vial in Mom -> Vial in Stoneforge, play Cradle, play and equip Jitte, give protection to Mom, attack (active Jitte on turn 3 on the play is a big game). Jitte killed his Bob, he didn't have a Decay for it when he untapped, and then I put a Revoker into play naming his 2x Deathrite and he scooped. In game 2 he just played a ton of removal spells and beat me down, more or less exactly his game plan. In game 3 he killed a ton of my lands with Sinkholes and Wastes, but I had drawn the combo. He had one chance to kill Stage and went for my only colored source instead. Then I stalled for time until I could combo off and he died to a Marit Lage. He didn't understand the Stage/Depths interaction, so a judge was called, but when it was explained he told me that he was happy that this, of all ways, was how his tournament ended, and that he had had a great time at his first GP, and we shook hands on a good match.
Round 9 I played against Elves and cursed my luck. I died badly in game 1 like my deck always will, getting Hoofed out of the game on turn 4 without having applied any significant pressure. In game 2 I had 2x Canonist and Teeg out by turn 4, and that was that. Then I opened the perfect hand in game 3: 2x Zealous Persecution with mana to cast both, a Mom, and a Revoker. I killed his first wave of Elves and found a Canonist. At this point the game was in a state where his only out was to Natural Order for Progenitus, and we both knew it. I think we both knew that I still had a Persecution left in my hand. If at any point I had cast Persecution pre-combat and swung with my team of Birds, 2x Mom, Revoker, and Canonist (or even just my bears), I would've successfully raced Progenitus. But I was thinking about Persecution as a Plague Wind rather than a Glorious Anthem, and when he untapped on the turn he was going to cast Natural Order, he prompted me on his upkeep and I panicked and fired off the Persecution. He fetched a Dryad Arbor, made Progenitus, and proceeded to win at 2 life. There were 3 consecutive turns when I could have won easily by Persecuting pre-combat, and my opponent basically Jedi Mind Tricked me into casting it at the one point in the game when it would not do the damage I needed it to, and my easy on-board kill fell short. Looking back over the day, I can't find any other play mistakes that decisively lost me games ... all the other games I lost, I was pretty much strictly outdrawn rather than outmaneuvered. But when it mattered, I choked and punted spectacularly.
Thoughts on the list: I think I would not play Elspeth again, given the choice. In fact I don't think I would play a 4-drop at all. I would rather have Qasali Pridemage in the deck, ideally as a 2x (but all the other cards performed well so I'm not sure what I'd cut for the 2nd). I think that aside from that, though, the list is strong enough to be competitive in most fields. I got lucky in a couple of my rounds and unlucky in a couple others, and I outplayed my opponents more than they outplayed me, so the virtual 7-2 (since the win in round 9 was readily, obviously available to me) makes me at least feel good about the list and want to stick with the plan.
How are you guys reacting to true name nemesis? I am playing GWb now (even though punishing fire was awesome at SCG LA) and I am playing SoFaI and Zealous Persecution out of the sideboard.
He's usually an issue g1. Most likely, you probably lose to him if one is out. They deny the aggro route of finishing the off the opponent. Zealous Persecution is a good idea. I didn't think of this. But, I think Engineered Plague is a better idea since it's a permanent spell, which is what i use to deal with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Maindeck Sword of Fire and Ice is strong enough against True-Name that I think it gives you a real chance at G1. The old no-Mystic/2-Jitte package is much weaker with Nemesis in the field (although Scryb Ranger flying over to activate Jitte and race is still a real plan if you can protect it). So I think Stoneforge + SoFI is going to be standard for a while, and I think it's a good way to fight TNN.
Zealous Persecution is real and I personally splashed it as the only black in my list at the GP. It is not ideal since it doesn't do anything once their Jitte is active, or a Lord is out, or Nemesis gets a toughness boost in any other way at all, but it's strong enough in general that I think it's worth playing. Plague might be better, although it is significantly worse against several of the matchups where Persecution shines (D&T and the mirror for example)
Personally I think going completely over the top with Marit Lage is the most powerful way to fight TNN decks, but you often need a lot of time to maneuver into a game state where you can reliably pull it off, so it's not totally consistent. I think the opportunity cost of running the combo is low enough to make it a good option though.
There have been a number of people who have done pretty well with the depths/stage combo (door, Fabian Goerzgen, Jacob Lindy), and it can still come out of left field at EOT if you have knight/scryb ranger. I think I am going to try running that for a while, in addition to a 2 x stoneforge Jitte/SoFaI combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pans-Advocate
Thanks for the detailed report. Too bad, you missed day 2 while struggling through some difficult matchups. There are no obvious decisions in this build and the more you play with the deck, the better it performs. So next time you will have a better result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pans-Advocate
I would still recommend to run Garruk, it really shines against Jund and Shardless BUG, which are tough matchups.
Also respect for killing ANT without Mindbreak traps =)
I haven't played against TNN yet, mainly due time issues and MODO being a clusterfuck, but wouldn't E-Plague in a E-Tutor board work against Nemesis, too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pans-Advocate
I'm also suprised that nobody discusses Humility which the recent Bant lists of Reid Duke and Sam Black ran. Once resolved, it prevents Elves from doing anything broken, makes Sneak & Show's threats into jokes and also stops TNN, as witnessed in the quarterfinals.
DD combo sounds like a plan, considering Maze of Ith kinda sucks in a TNN meta.
In a 3-color build like Dark Maverick, access to Engineered Explosives sounds like a plan, too.
If I ran Humility I would absolutely also be running Lingering Souls. I wouldn't trust my treat density to be able to beat a deck like Elves otherwise.
Glimpse of Nature + Cradle can be your nail in the coffin under humility - I'm not sure that it is good option, I found that Gaddock works also very well - they have to draw Craterhoof natural which isn't too common, It also stops destroying Jitte by GSZ an answer, along your creatures are still good enough vs army of 1/1s.
Note: Humility cost 4 mana - which mean you can be already dead.
Humility is awful in deck with creatures that do things and are big. You are really reaching if that's your solution for something in a deck that revolves around men with power and toughness and utility abilities. it's also 4. 5 probably if you are doing anything productive. For every win it sacks you into it's a cinder block in 10 other games. If you're terrified of Sneak Attack play Blind Obedience for christ's sake. Or man who is root maze for their dudes.
Ensnaring bridge is actually pretty sick as well, considering we can still attack under it with noble hierarch. It helps me vs sneak/elves the most. In fact, much of the sideboard tech from maverick's early years are becoming pretty good again.
Aside from threatening to race with a big knight of the reliquary and fliers, any other ideas on how to beat true-name nemesis with the GW build? Thanks!
Sword of Fire & Ice + <Rhox War Monk> seems to do the trick. Replace the RWM with any lifelink beater or Batterskull if you can't fathom how to fit in :g::w::u: into the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by test1985
If you splash blue to fight TNN (oh the irony) Rafiq actually seems like he would be pretty sick. If you're going to race, may as well race very quickly. Also he gets cast off of Cavern which is always a plus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
If you don't splash bant, Terravore still connects despite TNN's protection, and seems pretty decent in general right now. I would like to see some Terrageddon decks come back.
I playtested a couple games vs true bant, true patriot, and true blade with the fauna/retainers/elesh norn combo, and it was not actually that bad. Very few of these decks play any real grave hate, and Deathrite shaman should be one of the first STP targets anyways (for Maverick in general). Also, the dark depths combo is good, but many of these new TNN decks are playing a high jace count, so don't walk into that with your Marit Lage.
i like your Terrageddon suggestion, ironclad8690. much like ATS, erhnamgeddon has always been one of my few pet decks.
Naya Punishing Mav with Terravores is a nice mix, given that DRS based decks can be picked off by Punishing Fire.
just don't know how it'll go against combo though.
4 Noble HierarchsQuote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
4 Green Sun's Zenith
in a typical build. Doesn't seem like if you splash blue syndrome. Maverick already runs blue... Rafiq is just a meh card. Go all in on exalted plan, sure hope no one runs instant speed removal and chumps. If you're looking to race quickly, play Natural Order and grab a craterhoof behemoth. 4 mana green cards should be winning you the game.
Hello everyone, longtime lurker who finally has something to contribute to the thread.
I was playing Junk Maverick at GP DC and i managed to day 2 at 7-2. I went on to lose my win and in for the money, but ended at 10-5 on the tournament, which i was happy with for my first legacy tournament. This is the list i was playing:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
Some thoughts about the deck:
I managed to dodge all unfair decks through 15 rounds of play, which i guess is pretty fortunate. I was 3-2 vs rug delver, 1-0 vs uwr delver, 0-1 vs ur delver, 1-0 vs stoneblade, 1-0 vs punishing jund, 1-0 vs merfolk, 1-1 vs elves, 1-0 vs meathooks, 1-0 vs death and taxes, and 0-1 vs miracles. Therefore, i can't speak to the combo matchup for junk maverick, though i suspect it is better due to thoughtseize.
Sigarda main was thoroughly unnecessary. I cast her exactly once (against death and taxes) and she came out against just about everything. Similarly, Gaea's Cradle ended up being more of a hindrance than a help. Against the many delver decks i lost a bunch of games to mana screw with a cradle unable to tap for anything. Splash hate for TNN has led to millions more golgari charms and the like making a return, meaning mother of runes is far less useful than ever before, and deathrite shamans are far better than nobles. Additionally, having access to engineered plague and persecution out the board to fight the TNN was very powerful. Dryad arbor has been getting on my nerves more and more. He just is so terrible in your hand, or to have submerged, or to have die to charms. I'm not sure if the t1 GSZ ramp plan or fetching to blank a sacrifice effect is really worth the slot.
Huge props to the Dark Depths/ Thespian Stage combo. I really don't understand why any KOTR deck would not play this easily slotted combo finish. Maze of Ith is at an all time uselessness. Marit Lage allows you to race just about anything: i beat Meathooks (usually extremely bad matchup) just by making a turn 4 20/20. It also makes KOTR a must-kill even if your opponent is playing significant graveyard hate. Suddenly maverick feels like a combo deck, and your opponent has to play around it. I naturally drew the combo under a standstill one game for the complete blowout. Scryb Ranger is especially insane for powering knight into searching up the combo in a single turn.
Takeaways: KOTR and GSZ are still very powerful options and tools in the legacy world, and all of my wins seem to have come from KOTR. I think the main configuration of durdly little hate bears might require some serious examination in the future. I think i would cut down on them significantly for things like SoFI, Liliana, and more lands instead of mana dorks. Perhaps the deck needs to add more Junk elements to be competitive.
Very nice report/analysis!Quote:
Originally Posted by Provost
I was experimenting with a GWB build that cut all of the X/1 (some might not even consider it maverick anymore), eliminating the splash hate from decks running -X/-X effects. In fact I was running my own golgari charms.
I think my friend and I talked to you after one of your day 2 matches, thanks for the write up! What was your side board?
Guys, i'm searching for appropriate answer against TNN with straight GW version? is holy light good enough ? it could take care of snapcasters, clilques, confidants, strixes etc too.
what are you thinking about wing shards ? btw., would be return to Natural order maverick (for straight GW version) good choice ? Still, 10/10 in 3rd turn is far more frightening than 3/1...
Race it? KotR is bigger, exalted beats are bigger, equipped guys are bigger, etc. Mom and creatures with flying gets you past any blockers too... If you're worried about equipment - isn't that what pridemage is in the deck for?Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard_of_gore
NO is certainly a viable choice still, but Proggy isn't the best target for NO in the current meta. IMO ruric thar, the unbowed, craterhoof behemoth and worldspine wurm are better targets to pick from.
wouldnt be empyrial archangel better choice for NO target against TNN decks ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Luklinda
Yea, she'd work as well, and is a viable choice if you see burn decks too. From my experience with NO - not having a blue shell (pre-MM banning) to protect your "combo" makes it significantly more risky to rush into - especially in a format with Liliana of the Veil now floating around. The advantage of running with craterhoof behemoth is that plumping him down with 3 other creatures in play lets you swing with at least 21 trample damage, plus your critters base damage. It gives maverick the flourish of a combo finish once you've played through 3-5 turns. It's still a faster clock than True-Name Nemesis and doesn't care if they're holding him back to block - nor give them turns to find an answer/kill your fatty.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard_of_gore
Just do like D&T and play sword of FAI
sofai is offensive card, and i need defensive mechanism against TNNs ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
btw., about racing with nemesis
Lets be realistic, TNN is played in control/midrange decks with lots of control elements, and if you are already racing with them, you are already in win position. But, good control players won't allow that, its going to sound weird - we need to control game. Honestly, deep in heart, maverick is "control" deck with many tools against control. Natural state of game against those decks is that control decks must interact with our proactive answers and we must put pressure, but now its different. Now WE must find answer for uninteractive stupid creature. Racing is not the option. Maybe one of the options, but not that relevant - because overextending against control is not the smartest idea. Nemesis can't be stoped with thalia, teeg, mother of runes, maze of ith, stp, jitte, qasali, canonist, mindcensor, etc... and that is problem. Of corse, you can put pressure, but i need specific card against TNN, like empyrial archangel, or holy light. So i want more suggestions :D
Holy light actually seems like a pretty decent card to fight TNN in the straight GW version. It is only marginally worse than zealous persecution and can also help in the (very difficult) elves MU. Will try it out.
Surprised to see not all GWb versions run bob, wouldn't it be one of the main reasons to splash?
Celestial Flare was used by the SCG Dallas UW Stoneblade winner and also by another SCG Dallas top 16 UW Stoneblade list, presumably to combat opposing TNNs. That has potential as a maindeck answer to not only TNN, but other nonsense like Mongoose, Geist (although TNN has replaced him for the most part) or Mother of Runes-protected creatures.
Haha I think i remember you guys, one of you was on death and taxes, correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
My SB was:
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Choke
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Plague
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Abrubt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Life from the Loam
Zealous persecution is really, really good when it is good, and an excellent way to combat TNN.
I think the best way to beat TNN for maverick is to be proactive. We get a lot bigger than 3/1. GWb has so many more answers to TNN than GW, but i faced decks packing celestial flare to answer TNN and that seems to be the best/most efficient answer.
Marit Lage did an excellent job of beating TNN for me in DC. TNN can be relied upon so much as an evasive creature that Blade decks aren't running Lingering Souls anymore, and Fish never played fliers in the first place. A 20/20 flying is usually good enough, and if it isn't, you're probably gaining 20 life from a Plow and winning the race that way. Roll with a set of Knights and a Crop Rotation or two and the combo is surprisingly easy to assemble. Just be sure to sacrifice down to 0 Forests so you don't get Submerged.
What do you think about tidehollow sculler in place of thalia in GWb mav? He doens't increase the mana of our noncreature spells and exiles a threat.
I think this would weaken the Combo-Matchup. Tidehollow Skuller would be Discard 3-6, but to fight combo appropriately it's necessary to split your hate. Most combo decks can recover easily from discard but have problems with persisting hate in form of hatebears. Also, most storm decks are dead against a Thalia G1.Quote:
Originally Posted by maktus
He exiles a removal spell if they have any. He's less offensive and doesn't punish cantripping/non-removal spells. Thalia is a lot better.Quote:
Originally Posted by maktus
I have been thinking about getting into legacy and was hoping to start with maverick. This is the list I am currently working on. Any feedback is appreciated.
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
2 Sylvan Library
3 Punishing Fire
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
4 Winswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
3 Savannah
1 Taiga
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
SB:
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Pyroclasm
3 Golgari Charm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Choke
1 Life from the Loam
1 Ashen Rider
1 Elspeth, Knigh-Errant
1 Bojuka Bog
The Gaddock Teeg is against combo and the like. The Rhox War Monk is for the aggro matchups such as goblins and burn. The Sigarda is there against anything I think has sac effects for Marit Lage. The Pyroclasms are also for anything with a buch of small creatures, D&T and goblins. The Goglari Charms are enchantment hate as well as my solution to TNN. The Pithing Needle is against planeswalkers(Jace, Liliana, etc.). The additional Thalia is against combo and control. The choke is against anything blue. The life from the loam is a way to get card advantage against control and tempo as well as my way of dealing with land destruction. The Ashen Rider comes in against Show and Tell. The Elspeth is against control. The Bojuka Bog is GY hate. The SB is the least worked on part. Again, any help is appreciated.
glad to see you join the mav ranks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporty824
some suggestions. first of all, your creature count is simply too low. you've got too many utility spells without enough actual guys to beat-down with. also, 8 mana dorks (deathrite has other uses, but is primarily a mana dork) is also, simply, too many. 4 is the standard number to run, but i wouldn't fault anyone for running between 3 and 6, depending of course on what else is in their lists. since you're trying to play 4-color, i would recommend having at least one birds of paradise in there as a GSZ target, because it is the only way you can consistently make any color. birds also carry equipment like a boss. speaking of which, your choice of only one SOLAS seems subpar. for most metagames, 1x jitte and 1x batterskull is, i would say, the standard equipment package. of course, if you don't run stoneforge, batterskull gets a helluva lot worse. thus, not knowing your metagame, i would recommend 1x jitte if you are going to only run one piece of equipment. if you wanted to run 2, 1x jitte and 1x sword of x and y (or possibly just 2x jitte) is probably the way to go.
as far as your lands are concerned, the depths/stage combo isn't fantastic without weathered wayfarer or crop rotation. using two knight activations to tutor up the combo is really slow, when you should just be beating down with gigantic knights instead, or using your knights to waste-lock your opponent. horizon canopy is also a very unusual choice outside of straight GW builds or wayfarer builds.
in summary, you've got a lot of different packages/ideas going on in your deck, many of which are very strong. however, i would try to give the deck more focus. that is, i'd recommend you pick two of the following packages and build the rest of the deck around those:
1) punishing groves combo
2) stoneforge/equipment package
3) stage/depths
4) aether vial / wayfarer
most commonly you will see packages 1 and 2 together, which gives you the standard "punishing mav" list, or you will see 3 and 4 together, which gives you the "vial mav" list (although it's not uncommon to see 2, 3 and 4 together as well in a vial mav build).
hope that helps. enjoy the mav!
I was thinking of a good answer for show and tell variants and I would like your opinion about Parallax Wave. If the opponent uses SnT and you put it into play, it will be useful even with a grisel, emrakul, omniscience or sneak attack, although only give you some time.
i'd rather go for Sigarda with Maze of Ith, KOTR to fetch Karakas or good old Oblivion Ring for SnT decks.
While Parallax Wave can be played on its own, its 4cc is what makes me think twice. Though it can't be Abrupt Decay-ed, it will die anyway due to the fading. I find it a win-more card since you'll most likely exile everything to get an alpha strike in, but at that point your board presence will lead you to win a few turns later anyway.
my 2 cents