@danpo: Timely Reinforcements is a lot stronger than it looks at first glance. Especially if your build is low on creatures, Timely really stops a lot of decks dead in their tracks.
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@danpo: Timely Reinforcements is a lot stronger than it looks at first glance. Especially if your build is low on creatures, Timely really stops a lot of decks dead in their tracks.
Will be trying out weathered wayfarers in the next day or two.
EDIT: He's complete garbage. If the game becomes more mid-rangey and such I could see it.. maybe. Still, he's a weak topdeck and a do-nothing about half of the games. I saw him nearly every game of a 4-round tonight and he fetched maybe two lands; both in games where I was already stable; which is a problem. if I have stable mana, why do I need a durdley 1-drop who draws me lands?
Hey! Iam from Sweden(Sorry for maybe bad english) and have played Deadguy Ale for three years
I playde this list at "Eternalkungen", one of the large legacy-tournaments i sweden. There were 75 and hall of fame Olle Rade was one of them! I went 5-1-1 and got to top 8. We split the prizes at top8, the clock was 2:00 a.m. and everyone was tired.
Main:
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thoughtseize
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Council's Judgment
3 Zealous Persecution
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Lingering Souls
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
3 Wasteland
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
SideBorad:
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Tormodīs Crypt
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Duress
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Garruk Relentless are in the main deck but the meta was UR-delver and Elves so 3 Zealous Persecution in main was metacall.
Why I have [card] in deck?
3 Tidehollow Sculler
I really like this card. The EU is more unfair and more combo so Tidehollow Sculler works in the meta. I like it more then Hynm. Hynm can't not carry a sword and is dead in late game.
2 Mirran Crausader
The big beater in the deck. Really good at carry swords and wins games. AB can't kill him and elves can't stop him. I have outrace a Progenitus with a Mirran with Jitte.
1 Councilīs Judgement
I had 3 Abrupt Decay before but AD can't take big threat like Jace. 1 Councilīs Judgement so you can take care of Jace.
3 Lingering Souls
This is my favorite card and it's really strong card. It good against delver decks and carry swords. A must I think in this deck.
3 Zealous Persecution
Zealous is only batter with lingering souls and other creatures. I have won many games against elves with this card or a combat trick to finsh the game with spirit tokens,
Sideborad
3 Leyline of Sanctity
Combo and burn is really bad matchup. Leyline stops both decks.
1 Garruk Relentless
This usally is in main but a quick meta call I have to switch places for one more Zealous Persexution. I have not played with Garruk a lot but I have always like Garruk even i have not played him. He make wolfs and punch a creature to the face to transform! I have seen Sorin, lord of innistarnd in other deadguy ales. I like Garruk more because Sorin only make dudes and make them stronger. Garruk can kill creatures witch sorin can without ulti.
The matches
It was a while and I remember some of what happen.
Match 1. Vs Elves
I met one of my friends at the first match. We both know our 75 cards and what the match-ups is about: Elves make quicky NO or combo of. The Deadguy Ale: Kill everything and have not four mana for NO. I took care of the little green men in both games so 2-0 to me.
Match 2. VS RUG delver
Lingering Souls is really good in this match up. There was some mistakes from my oppoent that led me to 2-0.
Match 3. Vs UR Delver
I met Olle Rade himself!
The first game I Thoughtseize and saw Delver, Bolts, Land and Treasure Cruise.
"Treasure Cruise" I told meself.
"Ah, you pick Treasure Cruise" said Olle Rade. *Puts the card in the graveyard*
"Wait, i didn't pick that."
*10 sec later*
"I pick Treasure Cruise"
I don't think the matchup is bad for my deck. I can grind them out. The biggste problem is Treasure Cruise.
Later in the game I played all of my Stoneforge Mytic and Olle can't stop a Batterskull to enter the battlefield.
Game 2:
I don't remenber but he flips Delver and hits me.
Game 3:
This game was really close. I SoP the wrong gut in the end, SoP Young Pyro instand for Grim Lavamancer. Really good games!
Match 4 Elves.
I met another Elves player and I was more experienced in this matchup.
Game 1:
I got all the removel so no eleves for NO.
Game 2: He got a greater start and start to combo off. He NO for Craterhoof, but when he search the deck he coundln't find it. The only Craterhoof in the main was in the graveyard and he sideboraded out the other one. He finds Reclamation Sage to kill my Batterskull. But i won the race with help with ZP.
Match 5 Bug Pod Nic-Fit.
In this game Mirran really shines! In Game 1 Nic-fit player has a Beast token and a Grave Titan. But I got a Mirran ith a Sword of Fire and Ice and wins the race. What can Nic-Fit do agasint a Mirran?
Game 2 I Got Mirran round 3 and Sword of Fire and Ice Equip on Mirran round 4. I won that game-
Match 6. MUD
One of my other friends, so I know what he was playing. MUD is not a bad match if you know itīs MUD in game 1. Void on 1 can be a problem but you can play around it. There were no good games. He mulls to 5 in both games with no action at all.
Match 7. ???
We draw to make top 8.
I really like my deck but it was ups and downs. I went 0-4 in GP Stockholm Day 2 Legacy.
I hope you enjoy and hope you have some opinion about the deck.
I just wanted to post that my 3xTidehollow Sculler has been fantastic even against fair decks. He helps delay the game or key plays and with D&T being a premier fair deck and Delver decks often needing burn to finish you off; being able to make them waste it or get straight CA is nice.
I agree. Tidahollow Sculler don't die often, for me anyway. It's has given me a good advantage when I play it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
I've been on 2-3 sculler for ages, one of my favorites. Currently on 2 because I feel Stoneforge is a stronger white 2 drop overall and I am squeezing in a 3rd.
I'll be trying this when I finally get done with exams...
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
3 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Windswept Heath
1 Bayou
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Timely Reinforcements
SB: 1 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
SB: 1 Absolute Law
Seems like a lot of high costing non creatures for a Thalia deck
I agree, which is why I'm trying it. But, Thalia is SO good against the Cruise decks...I'm wondering if it is worth the sacrifice. Lingering Souls and Thalia are obviously a non-bo, but they're ideally for different matchups.
Thalia could go back to board to come in for Souls against UR, but what to fill the hole with in the main and then what to take out of the side? Playing Timely maindeck might just be too deep, but...
-Matt
No. I see where you where coming from. I've been hotly thinking about 3x Thalia in the main to fight cruise/combo, I just haven't had the balls to try it (also our meta is too weird to give an accurate description). I thought about it earlier tonight, but I think I'm going to try Scullers since everyone Seems to be very high on it right now. I'm glad that I'm not the only one with this same thought process though. I've also toyed with the idea of playing Thalia with ancient tomb just to "offset" her ability recently.
If you're doing that, I'd use a Moxen (either Diamond if you squeeze 1-2 loam, or Chrome because stuff.) You're in a bob deck and T1 Bob/Thalia/DRS+Discard are all stellar openers.
I really like Thalia + Lily against combo; it's just really hard to swing in a fair MU. Chrome may be alright as a 2-of; as some posters a few pages ago were saying. I remember the MtgSalvation primer says it's the differentiation between BW Deathblade and DGA; so it must've worked at some time.
Your testimonies about Sculler have spurred me to try him again. Here's the list I'm going to test. The Darkblast was awesome in modern so I'm trying it out here. The spell bomb was from Kotters article suggesting it. I think it might be alright as a 1 of.
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Dark Confidant
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Tomb stalker
4 Thought seize
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Darkblast
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Vindicate
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3 Lingering Souls
1 Zealous Persecution
3 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
SB:
3 Kor Firewalker
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Rest in Peace
1 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Perish
2 Disenchant
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Orzhov Pontiff
I'm a big fan of Spellbomb in the side; I'll be interested if it treats you well in the main. I know I liked Bojuka Bog when I was running a KotR deck; so it can't be that bad. I too have been fiddling with singleton Darkblast; usually if I'm in a list that feels weak to D&T. When I saw an opposing Delver deck use it on a Bob, the VCA against me was a big deal. I imagine it's better as a VCA device than a kill card; except maybe against elves where they have no choice.
Right. It's like punishing fire. Against us, fire is a real beating. idk. I don't get too test much anymore, but I think it seems alright in theory. The more I think about fire walker, the more I like it. It's a man who not only gains some life versus burn, but it also doesn't die to punishing fire or bolt, plus carries a weapon past elemental tokensQuote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
Darkblast + Top + Souls + Therapy is such a sweet package, I am trying to find the optimal numbers of each.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
Also I am super jealous that you have the time to play Legacy and be in a power metal band, cool stuff! My 3-year-old is really into putting Rhapsody on iTunes and pretending to hunt a cave monster (played by me), so that's about as close as I get.
So I went 3-1 with my list tonight. Beating Fish, UR Delver, and UB Tez. Losing a tight one to burn. I'm honestly considering cutting Bob entirely. I only played 3 tonight and it never really did much. I also crushed DnT about 5 times in a row before the tournament in testing. Am I being blasphemous? Darkblast was insane. I'm debating going to 2 Blast, 2 Stalkers, and maybe something else? Fourth lingering souls. I don't know. Bob has just been underwhelming.
I agree that Darkblast is an insane card right now and it's time to examine some synergies with it. With regard to Bob, I definitely think it's worth looking at what Rock decks in Modern have been doing and sdematt's latest Legacy Rock build:Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post855065
Basically you try to out-value the blue decks instead of out-attrition them if that makes sense? The decks you played against are always good matchups for us, I think, Fish doesn't get the benefit of islandwalk, UR Delver can't beat equipment/souls, and Tezz can be clunky. It's when we're up against blue Stoneforge decks that things get wonky. It's also worth noting that Maverick doesn't play bob and has been putting up results.
There are some interesting packages that could replace Bob IMO:
4 DRS
4 SFM
4 Pack Rat
2 Tombstalker
Lots of discard + removal
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Souls
Equips
Pack Rat gets value out of every draw (superfluous discard vs. fair decks, superfluous removal vs. combo) and Phyrexian Arena keeps the engine going. Plus you discard junk to Rat and then delve it out for Tombstalker. Could also play Mutavault with Rats though Wasteland is a good card for delve. And of course Darkblast feeds Tombstalker.
Or:
4 DRS
4 SFM
X Jotun Grunt
X something else (kitchen finks? blade splicer?)
2-3 Restoration Angel
Grunt is good against Treasure Cruise decks that are filling their GY rapidly, though more than 2 of them is a little scary. Restoration Angel can reset it and if you get another good ETB card in there you're always getting lots of value. Draw/selection engine here should probably be Top + Darkblast so you can ensure you hit your land drops to cast Restoration Angel and dredge away stuff you don't need to feed the Grunt.
Could also play Mom alongside Bob.
Good point. I do like grunt, but having to eat your own yard with it will come up then make Stalker tough to cast. I'll have to try some stuff. Maybe a third Sculler. I agree that I played some positive match ups. Even with his main board Smash to Smithereens (somewhat suspicious since the guy randomly happened to have a main board Grafdiggers cage against his round one dredge opponent), I still felt good. I'm not a huge fan of pack rat, but maybe it's alright. Mainboard fire walker is probably a bit weak
Considering try out the card Oppression in my sideboard combining with chains and Spirit is really punishing against the lowtreat heavy cantrip strategies.
You did not crush me 5x in a row jerk face :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
But yea...fuck darkblast
Sorry. Maybe like 4 times... The single main board ZP was pretty good. I can't think of a match up that I don't want to see (barring the turn 1 combo decks). Maybe burn, but fire walkers help out. The Deck seems well positioned, especially after you get a couple of Scullers in there.
FYI: I've cut Bob from Junk and so far it's been testing very well. He's too fragile in a meta FULL of Forked Bolts and Electrickeries. I've been riding the Phyrexian Arena high and it's been splendid.
I'll be trying out:
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Beefier creature, no idea yet
3 Phyrexian Arena
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine/Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Lingering Souls
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Darkblast
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
-Matt
Similar to my list. I'm Still on liliana at the moment and 2 Tomb stalker as my beefy man. Batterskull is pretty alright at being a "beefy threat". I'm not completely sold on arena yet though. Abd in place on therapy, I'm running ScullersQuote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Maybe 3 rhinos? I have thought to test sieges rhino in deadguy, maybe work with your list.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Hehe. Go back like ten months when I said that about Bob and everybody said I was being dumb. Also, DnT has always felt like a bye to me as long as your StP can hit their Mirran Crusaders or Serra Avenger. Not sure how many Zealous Persecutions you play though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I was quite happy with Bob before cruise shuffled everything up. It's basically only decks like TA (and even they are running more removal now) and D&T that I can reliably get him to trigger. I was thinking of adding Moms in my Lily slots before my hiatus (I'll be playing again in a couple weeks.) The issue with running Mom + Bob I think is that you're adding yet-more 1-toughness to guard against the 1-toughness meta problem.
I think the general DRS + SFM + Sculler is the new "base", where we stick to a bunch of x/2s (and bigger) to stay above water. I worry about Matt's removal config and his Miracles game. I've been playing around with Thopters a bit and I could see matt's list with an extremely lite blue splash, 1x Sword of the Meek, 3 Thopters in the slots missing. (I realize that's a bit blasphemous as well.) Maybe those take up Lingering Slots and the Beef slots stay the way they are. I just think Thopters >>> Souls and if you're not greedy about the splash you won't feel it. It's a serious trump card to Miracles where Souls is a speed bump.
Otherwise, I could see Warden of the Beyond (4/4 vigilance for 3) possibly taking up the beefy slot. It's not amazing, but it's color light almost-batterskull on paper. I think Tombdaddy is well positioned for this slot as well.
I think the ZP should be a Pontiff; just because he's less useless in games that go weird, can hit twice, and can carry a sword. ZP is an easier to use card, but I think Pontiff (as far as 1-ofs go) is better. The haunt trigger is better/easier than it looks next to a Jitte or something. He also triggers easily off of therapy (SEGWAY!) I've been looking at therapy more and I think Matt's list looks good for it. It's just disruption density (2-in-1) that makes it attractive, turning something useless into a thing. Time to start getting good at the game I guess.
I'm surprised he's had success with arena. I guess I can dig mine out (I bought them for Invasion Block Junk in Block Wars :P.) I hope they shake up the ban list come January, as I know I'm not the only one deeply saddened to see Bob start falling off of the last lists he truly belongs in.
Given the above I think I'd modify it to:
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tombstalker
1 Orzhov Pontiff
3 Thopter Foundry
3 Phyrexian Arena
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Darkblast
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
2?
It's worth noting that Pontiff being a 1/1 also synergizes with Foundry (sometimes you lose your sword and have to card-neutral it back out), and Foundry can turn Sculler into Perma-exile or give you a 1/1 in place of just losing him flat out to removal.
EDIT: It looks like 39 cards + 22 lands would be the config; can't tell.
Thopter Foundry seems interesting. I think everyone is so used to running it in blue shells that we haven't broken ground running it in solid black white. Interesting. Let us know how it goes! I think Thopters is very well positioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
-Matt
The one unfortunate thing about foundry isthat you needblue mana to cast it
Won't DRS suffice the majority of the time? This is where Chrome Mox is straight junk.
I mean, you don't have consistent access to blue mana, and you're playing three of them. You obviously simply can play some blue duals, but the thing I love about this deck is getting to play basics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
You only really need one blue source one time, right? Run one dual and/or run a basic Island and go heavy on blue fetches.
Meh. I'm not saying it's bad. But if you're going through that trouble you should be playing another fairly decent blue card that I won't mention.
I kinda agree, but there is something to be said about blue counts. If you run a mere 3 cards you only need a couple of lands outside of fetches. If you want to run 7 cards the number of times you need blue goes up drastically. I don't disagree that it'd be weird to not go full-bore (and that it's super obnoxious that the card requires blue) but there is something to be said for not needed blue and merely using it (maybe.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I think the argument of:
-Run 3 Foundry
-Well.. you're in blue so run 4 BS
-Well... you're 7 cards deep, that's only 4 other cards that aren't FoW to support it
-Well... you're 15 cards deep, you should swap a couple of non-blues to make FoW reliable
While the Slippery Slope argument is a fallacy; it tends to be true when building decks in Legacy (because the mana bases are so manipulable. Even so, I really only want to swap 2-3 basics with their blue versions and get a card that deals with Miracles. Then again, that slippery slope looks immediately attractive for Cruise.
C'est la vie.
EDIT: My point is merely, I think we can do it without going full Esper Deathblade.
Monastery Mentor looks like a quite a card especially if playing with Top, probe / therapy in the deck.
I agree, I think he's really interesting. He doesn't fit into a blue cantrip shell, as Shawn was suggesting, but might not be terrible with Therapies and stuff. I approve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizso
-Matt
If ever untap with 2 tops and the monk is GG :P
That man is awesome. Excited to try him outQuote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Yet an other strong human for Cavern of Souls
So I tried out my goofy list to a 2-0-2 finish against BUG Fit, RUG Delver, D&T, and Lands; which is alright.
Thoughts:
-Arena needs 2 draws to be as good as Bob untapping once. Why? Because Bob does something (attacks, equips, etc..) Arena helped but I don't know about it. It seems quite bad. I was never happy to see two and thinking back, I'm sure there were situations where I could've equipped and not being able to costed me. Being unable to set up the draws to avoid life loss is a bit annoying too. Also, extremely relevant is that it gets hit by Notion Thief and SotL, both of which happened last night. I'd avoid this card if I were you.
-Being able to run Tombstalker is awesome. He is quite the critter. Landed him every MU and (except when fighting Lage) he was great. If you're not running Bob, I think it's time to run this guy. His huge CMC played a big role as did his flying.
-I still like Pontiff over ZP for a 1-of. He does much of the same thing but with the bonus of sometimes doing it twice or carrying a sword.
-I'm not a fan of having such low counts of removal, especially one as conditional as Darkblast. It may be better in a large tournament..
-BSK is a nice thing but I have a very hard time knowing when to fetch him vs. Jitte vs. Meek. It always feels wrong and games I win with it, it'd be fine as almost any sword. My meta carries an ok amount of things that he trumps (and quickly) but I think the opportunity cost is not worth it if you have other big beaters.
-Thopter combo came out almost every game (except one that I stalled 7-ish turns against active Marit Lage and needed it or a Plow badly.) It was not always a winner due to SoFaI/Revoker or Deed, but I liked the tricks with Sculler, Top, and itself as a way to eek out mild value in odd situations. The life gain is quite relevant
I don't know what Arena will become. I think the list wants planeswalkers so I might head to Tezz-town or something (in which case I'll report elsewhere.)
Quite sure im gonna try out the Elder Pyromancer with tops. Havent really liked top just for the sake of them but with that guy drawing 2 tops will pretty much take over the game and end it the turn after.