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It looks a lot like the build I play combined with the oddities Saito had in his 4th place finish in GP Madrid.
( + preordain instead of mystical and 2 tendrils + the crystal vein)
The strength of the new Ad nauseam list is the protection from wasteland, but I really doubt the second tendrils and the crystal veins.
Sideboard also looks like Saito's GP Madrid.
yet, he has a good run online
Some UB and UWB and nauseum list have 1 tendrils and 1 ill gotten in main, and another tendrils in the sideboard, againts what pairings is better to have 2 tendrils in main?
2nd copy of Tendrils is good when you bring in Confidants and sort of transform your deck and gameplan into "BobTendrils" (Vintage deck). So, it's good against all the matchups where you want the Bobs. It's always debatable against which decks he is good, but imo: combo and CB/control decks with little removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi
If someone plays 2 Tendrils but no Bobs, it's probably because they have been Saito'd.
Hello!
I have started to play the UB version, and have a few questions. While not very common, I run the transformer SB Emrakul plan to combat Counterbalance. I tried out the green splash for Krosan Grip, but it has disappointed, since you need to draw into it, they can answer it by leaving a 3cc on top and it is defensive in nature. I'd rather like a more proactive plan, preferrably without splashing a color.
My current list (abbreviated since choices are fairly standard):
4 LED
4 Petal
8 Rituals
12 Cantrips
4 Infernal
2 Ad Nauseam
1 IGG
1 Tendrils
4 Duress
3 Seize
1 ??? (currently Sensei's Divining Top)
10 Fetch
2 USea
2 Island
2 Swamp
SB:
4 Bob
4 Chain
4 Doomsday
1 Emrakul
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Tendrils
I'm not running Chrome Mox, because it was only good after resolving Ad Nauseam. I usually have mana floating after AdN, so I don't think it adds enough value. The ??? slot is an extension of the sideboard. Even if I bring in the Doomsday-Emrakul plan, I want to retain a storm kill with Doomsday, and I think Top allows me to craft some Doomsday piles that otherwise wouldn't be possible. However, this is purely theoretical, since I'm a noob when it comes to Doomsday piles. So to all the Doomsday masters: Is Top the best option for that open slot? Would something like Meditate or Chromatic Sphere be better? Does Top even enable useful DD piles?
The second Tendrils in the SB is there for B/X discard decks and non-CB control. My idea is to bring it in with Bobs and try to grind them out. The second Tendrils gives me the option of a Mini-Tendrils or Double Tendrils. It's also nice to have another copy in your library in case you draw your first one and it gets discarded. For this reason, I also want to bring it in for the mirror, but is this a good idea (haven't played the mirror yet)?
Doomsday is a COMPLETELY different animal than Ad Nauseum.
If you want to get serious, I recommend finding the Doomsday pile list that was compiled by emidln and cheeseburger.
If I were to build DD piles for a transformational sideboard, my deck would require at LEAST 4 SDT and 1 Meditate.
QFT!Quote:
Originally Posted by Scordata
@Bongo: I really recommend trying two Grim Tutors. Having played the deck for some time now, I can't imagine playing without them. They help winning through tutor chains, enable IGG-loops, beat Spell Snare and finds sideboard cards or even additional Duress against slow decks like Landstill.
For reference, I'm currently running Ari Lax' list: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...orm_Combo.html
Here's emidln's list regarding doosmday piles: http://sites.google.com/site/emidln/doomsdaystacks
You don't strictly need Meditate/Ideas Unbound/Infernal Contract to make Doomsday->Tendrils work from the sideboard, but it's much easier to do since Brainstorm/SDT will require either cards in hand or lots of mana to get a good effect.
There is a more modern list in my sig.
Thanks for the quick responses guys!
Is this true?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scordata
It's not that I'm relying on the Doosmday kill - it's more like a convenient backup plan. I'm siding in the DD-Emrakul package against Counterbalance, and a few times I think I can simply go for the storm route. I have read those DD stacks, they're very useful. I think the basic stack is:
Brainstorm
LED
LED
IGG
Tendrils
With a few cantrips in hand, I think it's not that difficult to kill through Doomsday. Say your hand is: BS, Rit, Doomsday, Fetch, Petal, Petal, Ponder - wouldn't this be a nice 2nd turn kill that doesn't use the Emrakul plan?
@Grim Tutor: Are these good enough? Flipping these with AdN hurts, not to mention that -3 life is fairly significant. Besides, I don't have the money to buy these. I think Sensei's Top are good replacements. I liked the singleton in the maindeck so far.
Paying 3 mana and 3 life to tutor in a deck that deperately needs life is awful. Just run SDT instead, especially if you're sideboarding Doomsdays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo
Chrome Mox is necessary in a list with 2 Ad Nauseams/no Grim Tutor. I wish I could run a list that packs only business, but as long as you're relying on AN as half on your engines, you have to risk drawing one. You're very likely to kill yourself if you don't float some mana (B/BB or more),and Spell Pierce is everywhere.
Once you progress to being good enough at counting and cantripping to not have to rely on just slamming Ad Naus every game Grim gets much better. Still sucks but nothing else exists that does the job. Top is garbage a you don't have the mana with 12 cantrips to keep spinning. LDV sucks as it is slow and is a nonbo with all plans (less cards to straight Tendrils, no IGG, life for Ad Naus). Personal can't get mana but I might try it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar
Mana shouldn't be much of a problem with ANT's current lists. you can ignore most taxing spells (and being wasteland proof helps a lot)Quote:
Originally Posted by AriLax
Grim tutor can be seen as a necessary evil, and I have to admit I've won most games on ill-gotten gains anyways. (even against decks that pack force, a buttload of mana can do stupid things). then again, I'd rather not flip grim tutor, it's still a bit "meh" for me, and LDV and personal as being nearly unplayable. You simply lose to much with personal tutor and you can't even hit ad nauseam with it, nor any form of mana.
@practical joke:
Are you playing Grim Tutor? I've been playing TES and I was thinking about trying out the Grim Tutor ANT decks.
I'm not, I dislike it enough to skip playing it. I'd say test both with and without grim tutor and see how often you succesfully find a winning piece (tutor/ad nauseam) in the first 3 turns. (also make a mental note of protection)Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
if you don't like the ammount of action in it, add grim tutor, test is again and see if you like the card or not.
Regaring grim tutors: I traded mine for a set of forces. If you run them, however, I would suggest playing the deck more like iggypop, as you will see better results.
I have so far desleeved this deck due to the heavy presence of counterbalance. It just seems like a waste of time and money at this point to hope to dodge that deck.
I am currently playing doomsday, as you can actaully win agaisnt counterbalance there.
The CB builds that just have 4 Force for disruption are actually perfectly fine match ups, actually to the extent that I feel game 1 against UW builds is favored. There's a reason the guy who top 4ed the last SCG boarded Leylines. I actually beat him G1 only to lose the next to Leyline and the 3rd to him having Top-Force-CB and my hand and board plan being terrible. The 4C build with Spell Pierce, Snare, and Cspell is the real issue. Pretty sure you are mybe 20% to win a game there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scordata
practical joke: Also forgot about the not getting Ad Naus thing. Last time I tried Personal was actually right after the banning and it was so bad I immediately cut it.
Well, I tried it before and it sucked. I'm guessing it hasn't improved?Quote:
Originally Posted by practical joke
I'm of the belief that you NEED more than 4 tutors. The one great thing about the prismatic build is that it very rarely leaves you without a way to get to your kill... whereas the U/B build (although I personally think is much smoother on the whole) loses games every now and then to simply fizzling after firing off multiple brainstorm effects and seeing nothing.
Grim tutor is bad. But it puts the card in your hand and not on top of the library. I agree with practical that flipping one off of an ad nauseum is often not all that hot, but I just can't imagine running less than 6 tutor effects.
Maybe I'm too bad, but I also don't like Grim Tutor. I think 4 Infernals and 12 cantrips are enough to reliably get what you need. Seldom I fizzle, that's a little shizzle.
The MetalworkerForgemaster deck has been gaining popularity, which is not good - Chalice and Trinisphere shizzle in my nizzle. I've also had difficulties with DragonStompy and Faerie Stompy in the past.
How about incorporating a man-plan against CB and Stax? I'm currently experimenting with:
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Confidant
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Tombstalker
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Tendrils of Agony
The idea is to board out the AdNs and go beatdown, while minimally weakening the Storm plan. That way, you force them into a tough decision: side in potentially dead creature removal for game 3?
Hurkyls is for Chalice, Lodestone, Trinisphere, Null Rod and Ethersworn Canonist.