Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clark Kant
Alsan, I would cut a Jin-Gitaxis or the Inkwell Leviathan from your list to either play the 3rd Animate Dead or the 4th Daze.
I am in agreement. I am have been trying out the 4 JGCA lists and I am not really liking them too well. I know this boils down to player preference, but I am of the thought process that another reanimation spell is probably better than Jin number 4. While running 4 Jin, it was oddly reminiscent of running 4 Daze. There were hands where I would hit 2 Jin. This clogs up your hand unless you have a Force of Will to pitch the extra Jin to. Furthermore after a Jin was reanimated I would draw into more copies of him. These are not really useful and if they were another, different creature could have been reanimated. If one copy of the 4 Jins was an extra reanimation spell that could help actually get any dude into play. I am thinking that 3 JGCA is the way to go.
I also like running 11 Reanimation spells (4 Reanimate, 4 Exhume, and 3 Animate Dead) because it has been my experience that the reanimation piece is the part of the combo that gets countered (unless you are playing against MUC and they might just counter everything they can). I do like having control elements and a good permission package, but this is a combo deck. And due to that I would have to side with playing the combo piece. I feel the 3rd Animate Dead is more important over a 4th Daze (not to mention I just have some poor feelings toward 4 Dazes in this deck).
On a completely different note, what are your guy's sideboarding strategies? I have been running Pithing Needle to hit Relics and Crypts and Well and Show and Tells to make my game 2-3 a bit better. That seems to work pretty well most of the time. I guess I am just looking to see if there are any ideas out there that I should be trying out. Thanks.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Hey guys, lurker here. I decided I want to play Reanimator as soon as I saw Entomb was legal, but by the time I built it completely, Tutor got banned. Nevertheless, its recent success has convinced me to pick up the deck again. (Plus, my teammates U. Seas aren't seeing any play this Saturday (local tournament)).
Here's my list:
3x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1x Blazing Archon
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Angel of Despair (Iffy about it)
1x Inkwell Leviathan (Iffy about it as well)
4x Entomb
4x Careful Study
3x Hapless Researcher
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
3x Animate Dead
4x Force of Will
4x Mental Misstep
3x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Underground Sea
1x Island
1x Swamp
Pretty much the same as everyone else's, but I only run 16 land. Should I run 17?
I also had some (newbie) questions about the deck. The sample hands and what to keep hands that Garobidou posted have helped tremendously.
A question I had was should I try to get out a creature as soon as possible? Or should I sorta slow roll it? I'm guessing it would depend on the matchup and hand I got, but I feel really vulnerable just sitting there for a few turns.
I wish there were videos of the current version of this deck which I could view for pointers. Unfortunately, the only ones I've found use Mystical Tutor versions.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
I like Inkwell too much. He win me games versus rock (yeah, turn 2) and controls. But I run only 1 Jin, so he isn't my main win cond.
You should get out creature as soon as possible if you know what your opponent playing or if you don't you should get out Jin. Recommended is to have backup, but if you get out Jin, you probably get it.
But yeah, that is only my point of view:-)
New reanimator videos are here:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/15315428
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/15320273
Unfortunately they lose.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
I'm not confused Clark, but thanks 4 explanation :). If I have to cut 1 JGCA, I'll not add the 11th reanimation spell, I don't think having a hand with 3 reanimation spells and less digging or less creatures is, as you said, optimal. And I'll not add the 4th daze again, I've changed it to Misdirection (1-off, I know, I have another in Sb), and it fits perfectly. But I don't think having 7 creatures improves the G1 plan of (on the draw) draw and discard. It's hard to happen with 4 careful and 3 hapless, but sometimes it does (god hand of mental, fow + blue, land, reanimate, JGCA and brainstorm / 2nd land). If instead of the 12th creature we have 1 animate dead... :/.
My Sb plan has changed a little:
3x Dispel
2x Echoing truth
1x Misdirection
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Pithing Needle
2x Null rod
1x Elesh Norn
1x Terastodon
1x Platinum Emperion
1x Show and tell / Coffin purge (now the proliferation of Reanimator here has begun)
I've reduced S&T because the lack of basic lands makes the spell more difficult to play, and an JGCA from turn 3+ is bad if not vs control. Monoblack is a deck that sees a minor play (with Leylines), and if we have jin on board we having the S&T and another creature in hand is easy, and he can't abuse of it (ever xD).
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Some more numbers (C = Creature; D = Discard outlet; R = Reanimate effect).
Given 16 Lands (1 island, 1 swamp), 11 Permission spells, 11 C, 11 D and 11 R I tested the marginal impact of Creatures, Discard Outlets and Reanimate Effects on the build (+1 somewhere, -1 elsewhere). Same as yesterday, these numbers are for god hands on the draw (making draw-discard strategy acceptable).
C = Creature; D = Discard outlet; R = Reanimate effect
1) 12 C / 10 D / 11 R : 47,49%
2) 11 C / 10 D / 12 R : 47,07%
3) 12 C / 11 D / 10 R : 45,68%
4) 11 C / 11 D / 11 R : 45,58% (already given yesterday)
5) 10 C / 11 D / 12 R : 44,76%
6) 11 C / 12 D / 10 R : 43,76%
7) 10 C / 12 D / 11 R : 43,26%
Conclusion : discards outlets seem the "worst" part of the combo on the draw. However :
- We are only dealing with God Hands here and the draw part of our discards outlets let us keep some unkeepable hands. I do think we should focus on determining those keepable hands.
- On the play, the Draw-Discard strategy is weaker as only Reanimate allows to reanimate by turn 3. Straight strategy has more weight and so have discard outlets.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
@ Darksteel
I have a couple thoughts about your list. First off overall it looks very solid. I guess I have two concerns though overall that I will point out. I have counted the number of cards in your list a few times. I got 61 cards each time. I would strongly recommend slimming the list down to the standard 60 cards. The second concern that I have is the inclusion of Angel of Despair. Sure she can be great. She is a four turn clock and at very least sets them back a land drop, if not nuking a goyf or KotR. I guess I am just a little iffy on that choice. Think about the other guys you could reanimate at a converted mana cost of eight. You have Sphinx of the Steel Wind which basically does that same thing. It goes in and defends simultanesouly all while gaining you life to fuel more reanimation. I think Sphinx is the better call here. If you bump up one mana in the CMC, you can get Iona, Archon, or Inkwell. Against aggro Archon will singlehandedly win you the game. Against any mono color deck and some combo builds Iona just shuts them down. And lastly Inkwell shines in matchups with lots of removal or agaisnt any deck with an island. I guess my thought process here is that Angel of Despair is a solid option, but she doesn't quite edge out the competition for a slot in this deck.
@ theBloody
Thanks for the videos!
@ Alsan
Thanks for posting your sideboard. What would you say is a normal boarding plan for games 2-3? Could you give a rundown of some common match ups and what you board in and out? I am just really interested to see what some other players do in that department. I have been playing the deck for quite a long time and have never really zoned in on one coherent sideboarding strategy. So any advice would be appreciated and help.
@ Garobidou
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garobidou
1) 12 C / 10 D / 11 R : 47,49%
2) 11 C / 10 D / 12 R : 47,07%
3) 12 C / 11 D / 10 R : 45,68%
4) 11 C / 11 D / 11 R : 45,58% (already given yesterday)
5) 10 C / 11 D / 12 R : 44,76%
6) 11 C / 12 D / 10 R : 43,76%
7) 10 C / 12 D / 11 R : 43,26%
Considering these precentages and the fact that we will not always be on the draw, what is you personal view on the numbers? Do you really think it is worth it to go to a 12/10/11 build rather than the straight 11/11/11? Sure it raises our stats 2% when on the draw, but how does that affect us on the play? Moreover is a 2% benefit for a "god hand" worth choosing to be on the draw rather than on the play? I guess these are just some questions that I have rolling around in my head about these numbers. Any answers would be greatly helpful.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
@Garobidou, Thank you for the doing the math. You're a really valuable resource for this thread.
I think 11/11/11 is a great balance between maxing out your chance at a god hand, while also, not sacrificing the midgame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darksteel
3x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1x Blazing Archon
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Angel of Despair (Iffy about it)
1x Inkwell Leviathan (Iffy about it as well)
4x Entomb
4x Careful Study
3x Hapless Researcher
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
3x Animate Dead
4x Force of Will
4x Mental Misstep
3x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Underground Sea
1x Island
1x Swamp
This is a 61 card list. Cut the Angel of Despair from it, and your list would be absolutely perfect. I wouldn't change a single thing other than that.
I'm not too iffy on Inkwell. Yes, it's not as powerful as your other threats, but I like the idea of having one creature in the deck with Shroud that you can bring out when you anticipate a StP, are light on counters, or when you're ahead (when it's early) and you just want an unstoppable/resilient creature to finish them off.
Edit: Beaten by Sturtzilla. Yeah, so what he said. I agree with it. :)
@Sturtzilla, the problem with cutting draw or reanimate effects is that you are hurting your midgame to ever so slightly increase your god draw percentage. Draw is invaluable when you don't have a god hand. And Reanimates are invaluable if your god draw gets countered when you attempt to reanimate, and also when you have a Jin Gitaxis on the board, creatures in the yard, and want as many reanimate effects as possible.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
I like the simplicity of this new version of Reanimator on getting a fatty out turn 2, but it seems it folds too easily to random hate cards that are maindecked. Also, the creature being reanimated is usually random, due to the discard, and often, its not the ideal one (with only 4 tutor effects).
I've been testing a different build, which is more resilient and consistent based on intuition (8 tutor effects) ... also, when you do go for intuition, the opponent would not know which creature to select, as you can reanimate or show and tell it into play (or both on same turn).
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Flex Creature (testing Elash, Terrastodon maindeck)
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Intuition
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Show and Tell
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Flooded Strand
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Misty Rainforest
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Empyrial Archangel
SB: 1 Terastodon
SB: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
SB: 3 Misdirection
SB: 1 Inkwell Leviathan
SB: 4 Thoughtsieze
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clark Kant
I think 11/11/11 is a great balance between maxing out your chance at a god hand, while also, not sacrificing the midgame.
@Sturtzilla, the problem with cutting draw or reanimate effects is that you are hurting your midgame to ever so slightly increase your god draw percentage. Draw is invaluable when you don't have a god hand. And Reanimates are invaluable if your god draw gets countered when you attempt to reanimate, and also when you have a Jin Gitaxis on the board, creatures in the yard, and want as many reanimate effects as possible.
I am going to conclude from these statements that you are in favor of the 11/11/11 build. I am pretty sure that I agree with you. I would prefer to have a fairly balanced deck for the whole of the game at the cost of ~2% chance to "god-hand" (Especially if the math says that it will happen 45% of the time on the draw). That is what I have been running lately and it has been doing pretty well. Actually at a FNM a week or two ago, a few buddies and I got our legacy decks out and were playing between rounds. Some people starting watching me play and I had a lot of comments about how consistent the deck was getting a turn 2-3 dude. So maybe the quad 11 split is the way to go.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sturtzilla
On a completely different note, what are your guy's sideboarding strategies?
Hi all,
as there seems to be almost an agreement on the most efficient main deck construction, I find this a very important question. Generally, with the current builds I perceive sideboarding even more tricky than it was before the release of JGCA. It's a tricky effort to integrate an effective sb-plan in g2/g3 while maintaining the consistency of the core of the deck. Often, my theoretical sideboard-plans turned out to be not feasible/effective enough in practice.
Overall, I see three general aspects in sideboarding, whose are new or at least received an even higher importance in the post JGCA era:
a. Rating the effect of all cards before and after the reanimation of Jin
(one of the reasons why discard spells like Thoughtseize don't really fit anymore)
b. We now have 10 up to 12 counter spells main deck compared to 8 spells before New Phyrexia
(which provides more reliable protection, especially for Jin)
c. Due to turning away from splashing a third color most builds now only play 17 or even just 16 lands, which makes casting spells with CMC 3 more difficult
(many times I'm thinking of completely cutting Show & Tell for this reason)
Before throwing into discussion my current sideboard-plan, here is my list (which is nearly identical to those posted above):
4 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Hapless Researcher
4 Entomb (I)
4 Exhume (S)
4 Reanimate (S)
2 Animate Dead (E)
4 Force of Will (I)
4 Mental Misstep (I)
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm (I)
4 Careful Study (S)
1 Show & Tell (S)
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
11 Creatures / 11 Discard / 11 Reanimate(incl. S&T) / 11 Permission
Sideboard:
1 Show & Tell (S)
3 Boomerang (I)
3 Stifle (I)
2 Misdirection (I)
1 Extirpate (I)
1 Surgical Extraction (I)
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2 Blazing Archon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
General sideboarding plan g2/g3 regardless of opponent's deck:
- 2 Hapless Researcher
- 2 Animate Dead
+ 1 Show & Tell
+ 3 Boomerang/Echoing Truth
Thus, regarding the core mechanics the deck becomes a 11/10/10/11 build in g2. Plus, it now has 3 bounce spells.
Of course, Show & Tell makes the deck a bit slower. But, it promotes the count of reanimate/drop and discard in a quite efficient way while simultaneously enabling the integration of three bounce spells.
I think the -1 in the discard and reanimate slots is acceptable as in g2 there might be some gy-hate which needs to be deactivated before coming to business.
Regarding Boomerang: For a long time this slot has been Echoing Truth in my sideboard. Very valuable when facing Dredge or hordes as you know. But, these are mainly defensive thoughts. I think the sideboard should focus on clearing the way for the game plan. Both, ET and Boomerang, bounce those gy-hate artifacts, creatures and enchantments, which we missed to counter with our fat permission suite. In addition, Boomerang bounces lands as well. This is quite a nice play during opponent's discard phase after Jin has hit the table. For example, in order to get rid of an annoying Maze of Ith. What do you think on this? Is it worth sacrificing the ability to bounce serveral copies of one card on the battlefield for the ability to bounce lands?
Specific sideboarding plan depending on opponent's deck:
First of all, 4 exchangable creatures to adapt to the opponent's deck. Even the 4 JGCA can be replaced completely, if necessary.
However, following the rule "no defensive thoughts anymore" I'm thinking of replacing Blazing Archon, as it doesn't add to clearing the way.
The remaining 7 cards (Stifle, Misdirection, Extirpate) are potential substitutes for the 3 Daze and 4 Missteps. As we have a strong permission suite with up to 12 counter spells main, I think one should focus on surprising disruption at instant speed in g2/g3, as well.
Stifle over Pithing Needle/Null Rod:
Frequently, our creatures only need a small time slot to dip into our graveyard before becoming reanimated the same turn. For the duration of this slot Stifle handles all the relevant gy-hate that Pithing Needle/Null Rod do. Furthermore, it encounters your opponent unprepared. And it handles triggered abilities like Bojuka Bog and Planar Void, which PN doesn't. Last but not least, it is not vulnerable to artifact/permanent removal like PN/NR are. It has to be countered which strengthens our position in the permission-matchup even more. What do think on this?
Misdirection:
Tuning the counter spell suite.
Extirpate/Surgical Extraction:
Getting rid of things I don't want to face again for the rest of the game. Like devastating (recurring) Wastelands, Life from the Loam, and many other stuff that has a huge effect on our game play.
Well, these are my current thoughts on sideboarding.
Sorry, for writing such a long post and for misspelling.
English is not my first language.
Looking forward to your feedback!
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sturtzilla
@ Darksteel
Considering these precentages and the fact that we will not always be on the draw, what is you personal view on the numbers? Do you really think it is worth it to go to a 12/10/11 build rather than the straight 11/11/11? Sure it raises our stats 2% when on the draw, but how does that affect us on the play? Moreover is a 2% benefit for a "god hand" worth choosing to be on the draw rather than on the play? I guess these are just some questions that I have rolling around in my head about these numbers. Any answers would be greatly helpful.
I'm building a more accurate model, taking into account the keepable hands (without all the combo parts) with their probabilites of turning good (getting the combo by T3). It should be ok tonight and I'll give the numbers. My intuition is we should not focus on the on the draw hands, especially because they heavily rely on Draw-Discard strategy which is less good on the play (a draw discard strategy with exhume in hand is not acceptable on the play as it means a T4 reanimation).
Moreover, if you run creatures in SB, for that game where you'll be on the wraw, you're perfectly able to focus post-SB on the draw-discard strategy by making your creature count bigger. However I'm not really fan of such a gameplan as you're also supposed to fight hate which is highly anti-synergic with a Draw-Discard strategy : you can't counter their T1 hate (otherwise you won't be able to discard) making your discarded creature very vulnerable to hate.
On a very blue environment (because the Draw-discard strategy is uncounterable), one could consider going 2nd in any case G1 and run an optimized build satisfying this gameplan. I'll see what can be done when I'm finished with my model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sandoz
Stifle over Pithing Needle/Null Rod:
Frequently, our creatures only need a small time slot to dip into our graveyard before becoming reanimated the same turn. For the duration of this slot Stifle handles all the relevant gy-hate that Pithing Needle/Null Rod do. Furthermore, it encounters your opponent unprepared. And it handles triggered abilities like Bojuka Bog and Planar Void, which PN doesn't. Last but not least, it is not vulnerable to artifact/permanent removal like PN/NR are. It has to be countered which strengthens our position in the permission-matchup even more. What do think on this?
I agree with you when you state that Stifle can answer most of hates (including Faerie Macabre) where Needle / Rod are more specific.
However, Stifle is bad for the following reason : it requires a lot of mana. This could seem weird but you have to be able to play stifle in response to their hate which happens when you're reanimating. That being said, if you play Exhume, you have to have 3 manas available :
- Best case : you have 3 manas by T3. In that case, I would prefer playing Show and Tell.
- Moderate case : you have 3 manas by T4-5. This is way too slow. That means Reanimate is the only Reanimate Effect to consider here, reducing heavily your chances of getting the combo.
- Worst case : you'll never hit 3 manas
Needle/Rod allows you to play with only 1-2 lands. Another advantage to Rod is that it is misstep-proof.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sturtzilla
Considering these precentages and the fact that we will not always be on the draw, what is you personal view on the numbers? Do you really think it is worth it to go to a 12/10/11 build rather than the straight 11/11/11? Sure it raises our stats 2% when on the draw, but how does that affect us on the play? Moreover is a 2% benefit for a "god hand" worth choosing to be on the draw rather than on the play? I guess these are just some questions that I have rolling around in my head about these numbers. Any answers would be greatly helpful.
I'm building a more accurate model, taking into account the keepable hands (without all the combo parts) with their probabilites of turning good (getting the combo by T3). It should be ok tonight and I'll give the numbers. My intuition is that we should not focus on the on the draw hands, especially because they heavily rely on Draw-Discard strategy; Such a strategy isn't that good on the play (a draw discard strategy with exhume in hand is not acceptable on the play as it means a T4 reanimation).
Moreover, if you run creatures in SB, for that game where you'll be on the wraw, you're perfectly able to focus post-SB on the draw-discard strategy by making your creature count bigger. However I'm not really fan of such a gameplan as you're also supposed to fight hate which is highly anti-synergic with a Draw-Discard strategy : you can't counter their T1 hate (otherwise you won't be able to discard) making your discarded creature very vulnerable to hate.
On a very blue environment (because the Draw-discard strategy is uncounterable), one could consider going 2nd in any case G1 and run an optimized build satisfying this gameplan. I'll see what can be done when I'm finished with my model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sandoz
Stifle over Pithing Needle/Null Rod:
Frequently, our creatures only need a small time slot to dip into our graveyard before becoming reanimated the same turn. For the duration of this slot Stifle handles all the relevant gy-hate that Pithing Needle/Null Rod do. Furthermore, it encounters your opponent unprepared. And it handles triggered abilities like Bojuka Bog and Planar Void, which PN doesn't. Last but not least, it is not vulnerable to artifact/permanent removal like PN/NR are. It has to be countered which strengthens our position in the permission-matchup even more. What do think on this?
I agree with you when you state that Stifle can answer most of hates (including Faerie Macabre) where Needle / Rod are more specific.
However, Stifle is bad for the following reason : it requires a lot of mana. This could seem weird but you have to be able to play stifle in response to their hate which happens when you're reanimating. That being said, if you play Exhume, you have to have 3 manas available :
- Case #1 (Best case) : you have 3 manas by T3. In that case, I would prefer playing Show and Tell.
- Case #2 : you have 3 manas by T4-5. This is way too slow. That means Reanimate is the only Reanimate Effect to consider here, reducing heavily your chances of getting the combo.
- Case #3 (Worst case) : you'll never hit 3 manas
Needle/Rod allows you to play with only 1-2 lands. Another advantage to Rod is that it is misstep-proof.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Thanks for your valuable feedback, Garobidou!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garobidou
you have to be able to play stifle in response to their hate which happens when you're reanimating.
Obviously, this timing aspect is the argument which clearly outweighs the drawbacks of Pithing Needle and which I did not consider. I’ll get back to the Needles. Cheers :-)
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Yesterday I won a local store tournament with 0) 12 C / 10 D / 10 R : ¿?% and 12 permission (1 missdirection maindeck instead 3rd Animate dead, wich allowed me to be safe to swords being tapped under Platinum emperion fowless empire).
Can you made the numbers for those combination, Garobidou? Please and thanks :D
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sandoz
As there seems to be almost an agreement on the most efficient main deck construction, I find this a very important question. Generally, with the current builds I perceive sideboarding even more tricky than it was before the release of JGCA. It's a tricky effort to integrate an effective sb-plan in g2/g3 while maintaining the consistency of the core of the deck. Often, my theoretical sideboard-plans turned out to be not feasible/effective enough in practice.
Honestly, I think this is the area that we need to be working on at this point. Developing a coherent sideboarding strategy that does not hurt the speed or permission portions of this deck is paramount. Many times I don't sideboard anything but creatures. I will just tweak the creature base a bit for games 2-3. This is because sometimes this deck is just so fast that it doesn't matter. I have been really happy with my build as of late and have been posting pretty decent stats with it at local events and in casual testing. With a turn 2-3 Jin there are not many decks out there that can really deal with your play. Especially when you consider the fact that you will be reanimating more guys and also able to counter relevant spells.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sandoz
For example, in order to get rid of an annoying Maze of Ith. What do you think on this? Is it worth sacrificing the ability to bounce serveral copies of one card on the battlefield for the ability to bounce lands?
This is a very interesting concept. I think that your choice is going to have to be meta dependent. I would opt for echoing truth if you anticipate token decks like TES or Belcher. Nothing is more fun than watching them spend their hand to make like 20 goblins just to have them bounced and poof into nothingness. However if you think you will see more decks running KotR, I guess that could include Bant, Rock/Junk, Maverick, or even Lands, then you might want Boomerang. I personally like Echoing Truth a bit better for two main reasons. First it is going to be easier to cast, which means you don't set yourself back as far by planning to play it over Boomerang. The second reason it that if you have a Jin on the board you should probably be thinking about reanimating your next threat to get around say Maze of Ith (you could just Pithing Needle it too). The Boomerang thing seems decent but looks to me more like a cheeky play for fun. It strikes me as a "win-more" kind of play. If you are able to make the Boomerang play you should already be winning the game.
Additionally I really am interested in hearing other sideboarding strategies. I think that is what we should be focusing on, seeing as we are in near agreement on what the most effective maindeck is within a 2-3 card fluctuation.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sturtzilla
This is a very interesting concept. I think that your choice is going to have to be meta dependent. I would opt for echoing truth if you anticipate token decks like TES or Belcher. Nothing is more fun than watching them spend their hand to make like 20 goblins just to have them bounced and poof into nothingness. However if you think you will see more decks running KotR, I guess that could include Bant, Rock/Junk, Maverick, or even Lands, then you might want Boomerang. I personally like Echoing Truth a bit better for two main reasons. First it is going to be easier to cast, which means you don't set yourself back as far by planning to play it over Boomerang. The second reason it that if you have a Jin on the board you should probably be thinking about reanimating your next threat to get around say Maze of Ith (you could just Pithing Needle it too). The Boomerang thing seems decent but looks to me more like a cheeky play for fun. It strikes me as a "win-more" kind of play. If you are able to make the Boomerang play you should already be winning the game.
Thanks for your feedback, Sturtzilla. With my switch from Stifle back to Pithing Needle there's no reason to bounce lands like Maze, anymore. Thus, the Boomerangs have gone, as well. And Echoing Truth made its way back into my sideboard for tomorrow's local legacy tournament. :-)
Nevertheless, as you put it, sideboarding extremly hurts the speed of the deck. And less sideboarding might even be the best way in many situations. Perhaps, one of the best components of a sideboarding plan is the tuning of our permission suite. That's why I like the idea of playing Misdirection very much.
Anyway, I'm very interested in reading about other thoughts on sideboarding, as well.
Nice weekend!
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Yeah, tuning our creature suite (or increasing it if we are on the draw), tuning or slightly increasing our permission suite (misdirection), and Echoing Truth vs Leyline of the Void or Pithing Needle vs Maze of Ith seem to be the best sideboard strategies.
Oops, almost forgot Show and Tell. That also works well, especially if you are on the play and are increasing your creature count.
So perhaps something like this...
4 Echoing Truth
3 Pithing Needle
3 Additional Utility Creatures
3 Misdirection (Take the place of Mental Misstep vs monoblue decks)
2 Show and Tell
But then again, cards like Null Rod/Energy Flux are very tempting vs Affinity/MuD.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Some Points on creature selection:
-I have found maindeck Elesh Norn to be very good. The argument against it is that blazing archon does the same thing...but it really doesn't, Elesh is better in almost every situation.
In Legacy, the best creatures do things, they don't just attack (noble heirarch, stoneforge mystic, cursecatcher, gaddock tieg, dark confidant etc, etc). Elesh shuts down the opponents utility, while locking out dredge, merfolk, goblins, elves, zoo..etc from the game.
-Iona+Inkwell are very weak..almost always the first to get boarded out, thinking Terastodon maindeck better with 1 Iona.
-Gin-Gitaxis is always GG...3 is the right amount.
Summary:
3 Gin-Gitaxis
1 Iona
1 Blazing Archon
1 Sphinx of Steel Wind
1 Elesh
(maybe one Terastodon)
Sideboard should have 2 more Elesh to fetch with Intuition.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clark Kant
4 Echoing Truth
3 Pithing Needle
3 Additional Utility Creatures
3 Misdirection (Take the place of Mental Misstep vs monoblue decks)
2 Show and Tell
I like the general configuration for a potential reanimator sideboard. I am not sure about running 4 Echoing Truth; I think I would lean more to the 2-3 range. I would consider Null Rod and Spell Pierce as other potential additions. As JonBarber stated in an earlier post, it can take care of pesky artifacts such as Relic and Crypt as well as allowing for blowout matches versus Affinity and Mono Artifact decks. If boarded in conjunction to Pithing Needle, it can allow for Needles to hit other targets. As for the 3 utility creatures, I am personally favoring an Iona, an Elesh, and a Terastadon. For reference my current sideboard is below. This brings me to my next point, Elesh.
3 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
2 Null Rod
2 Show and Tell
3 Misdirection
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Terastadon
1 Iona Shield of Emeria
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wess
3 Gin-Gitaxis
1 Iona
1 Blazing Archon
1 Sphinx of Steel Wind
1 Elesh
(maybe one Terastodon)
Sure creatures should do things and as such Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is a pretty awesome card for this deck. Yet Elesh does not save us versus any build with a Natural Order package that will tutor out a Progenitus. Similarly, Elesh does not protect us versus sneak and show decks that cheat Emrakul into play. Now, I recognize that this is more than likely a small portion of any metagame, yet they are both decent decks that we should be prepared to contend with. With that in mind, Blazing Archon solves both of those problems plus many more. Sure he will not kill many of the smaller dudes you listed in you post. He will keep them from attacking you, which is the most relevant issue in nearly every match. There is also the issue of Elesh's vulnerability to Karakas. For these reasons, Archon is probably the better choice over Elesh for main decking. This will allow you time to set up more reanimation if necessary; however, it is likely that the Archon will be enough to finish off your opponent as it creates a 4 turn clock on its own.
Re: [Deck] B/U Reanimator
So I browsed through "The Gatherer" to familiarize myself with the new Commander cards. There were some that caught my eye that could be additions to the current Reanimator deck. I guess this is all supposing that these new card will be Legacy legal (any information on this would be helpful). I am pretty happy with my creature base but am always open to new considerations. So below you will find some interesting finds that we could discuss in this forum.
Archangel of Strife
Avatar of Slaughter
Celestial Force
Damia, Sage of Stone
Magmatic Force
Ruhan of the Fomori
Sewer Nemesis
Trench Gorger
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Now these options each have some sort of neat effect. Some offer faster clocks, removal, card advantage, etc. I guess I am just interested if you guys think any warrant testing.
