[Deck] 43 Lands

Congratulation for your top8!
My friends toped 16 with Junk Depth (Sébastien Delay, who made the trip from Geneva/Switzerland ;)

Until now, my sideboard was :
(with a pretty good sideboard plan for severals match-ups.)

4 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of the Worlds
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Raven's Crime
1 Tormod's Relic
1 Raven's Crime


Jund and other Deathrite Shaman decks are populating down here, as other grave-hate post board.
Now, I wonder more and more if I should not go with 4 Dark Confidant.
Removing Raven's Crime (which I really love) a Chalice, an Abrupt Decay and the Thormod's Crypt :

3 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Dark Confidant
3 Abrupt Decay (or Krosan Grip, dont know yet which is better)


When you board-in Dark Confidant, do you remove Life from the Loam ? (keep 1 or 2 to Intuition/Entomb)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markkugel

Congratulation for your top8!

When you board-in Dark Confidant, do you remove Life from the Loam ? (keep 1 or 2 to Intuition/Entomb)?

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You board him in, to have a clock, and an engine (with the benefit of not relying that much on your yard)

Take out your yard dependant intuitions imo, and keep a number of loams in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markkugel

Congratulation for your top8!
My friends toped 16 with Junk Depth (Sébastien Delay, who made the trip from Geneva/Switzerland ;)

Until now, my sideboard was :
(with a pretty good sideboard plan for severals match-ups.)

4 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of the Worlds
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Raven's Crime
1 Tormod's Relic
1 Raven's Crime


Jund and other Deathrite Shaman decks are populating down here, as other grave-hate post board.
Now, I wonder more and more if I should not go with 4 Dark Confidant.
Removing Raven's Crime (which I really love) a Chalice, an Abrupt Decay and the Thormod's Crypt :

3 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Dark Confidant
3 Abrupt Decay (or Krosan Grip, dont know yet which is better)


When you board-in Dark Confidant, do you remove Life from the Loam ? (keep 1 or 2 to Intuition/Entomb)?

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Thanks! I saw the Junk Depths list in t16 and like it a lot. I probably would have played something similar if not for TNN shoving so many other decks out of the format =/.

I usually board out something like the Manabond (I don't think Manabond did anything for me all day), the Intuitions, Karakas and Bojuka Bog (if they're not applicable, obv) maybe 1 Loam for some combination of Bob, Decay and other match-up specific cards (Revoker against DRS, Bridge against dudes). Intuition and the Loam come out to play around Surgical/RiP, but I usually don't go below 3 Loams unless it's against combo.

Depends on the mu. Vs storm combo/Ichorid I bring in bob, but vs U(xx) combo decks and control (Miracles) I swap Bob for Intuitions. Entomb is weak vs Miracles and I would take out Entomb them since chalice does much more work than an active Loam/Pfire.

I keep my loams at 4 vs combo. I use them just to keep my land drops going and never needed to resort to cutting one for an sb card even after bringing in 12 cards.

AD is pretty meh and not the greatest on the manabase. It is easier to keep hands with green source and Kgrip vs a hand banking on GB+AD. Grip is preferred because it hits brown yard hate and Leyline, two things AD is very inefficient at or can't do. It also has extra uses against rough matchups like omnitell/sneak decks. They also can't be misdirected vs Miracles and can kill top, which is a big game.

I don't see any other advantage for AD other than hitting DRS or KotR. Ok, it can't get countered vs CB flip...sure

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tyrio

Thanks! I saw the Junk Depths list in t16 and like it a lot. I probably would have played something similar if not for TNN shoving so many other decks out of the format =/.

I usually board out something like the Manabond (I don't think Manabond did anything for me all day), the Intuitions, Karakas and Bojuka Bog (if they're not applicable, obv) maybe 1 Loam for some combination of Bob, Decay and other match-up specific cards (Revoker against DRS, Bridge against dudes). Intuition and the Loam come out to play around Surgical/RiP, but I usually don't go below 3 Loams unless it's against combo.

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He is playing at Paris right now for the GP with the same 75 list. It will probably be a bit harder to make a good result here in Europe, because of combo.
Then we will both play for BOM in Annecy. I will bring in my Lands, with a bit of help, I will dodge the bad match ups in early turns ;)


My 75 is a classic Lands list with 2 Entomb and(http://cl.ly/TvjE/untitled.pdf)
Still want to pack Raven's Crime and going to 3 Punishing Fire.

I want to talk more on sideboard and plan, and ask you want do you think about.

SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 4 Dark Confidant
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance


JUND CASCADE <-- Still need help on this sideboard plan
outs :
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Tranquil Thicket

ins :
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Crucible of Worlds


BLACK STORM COMBO
outs :
1 Karakas
1 Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Intuition
1 Academy Ruins
3 Maze of Ith
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

ins :
4 Dark Confidant
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Chalice @1


SNEAK SHOW AND TELL
out :
1 Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Intuition
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Punishing Fire
1 Groove of the Burnwillows

ins :
4 Dark Confidant
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Krosan Grip

DELVER (RUG(UWR/BUG)
SHARDLESS
outs :
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Intuition
2 Entomb
1 Urborg tomb of Yawgmoth

ins :
3 Chalice @1
4 Sphere of Resistance


There is no D&T in my local, so I still dont have any plan for it.

What do you think about my plans ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markkugel

What do you think about my plans ?

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Link doesn't work

Quote:

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"BLACK STORM COMBO
outs :
1 Karakas
1 Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Intuition
1 Academy Ruins
3 Maze of Ith
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

ins :
4 Dark Confidant
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Chalice @1"

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You take out the urborg, but bring in your Black Cards?
you probably dont need glacial chasm for games 2 and three, but tranquil can dig for good Cards/cast enchantments.

I would take out all pfire vs storm combo. The anti-creature lands can be cut for sure, but cutting anymore can weaken mox diamond hands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markkugel

SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 4 Dark Confidant
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance

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I'm not sure exactly what your main deck is because your link is broken, but I would probably try something like:

Jund will bring in Surgicals, so you'll want your Tranquil Thickets. I haven't tried out the Spheres against them, but it seems very mediocre. I would do something like

-1 Karakas -2 Intuition, -1 Manabond
+4 Dark Confidant

Storm
-1 Karakas, -1 Glacial Chasm, -3 Maze of Ith, -1 Academy Ruins, -2 Engineered Explosives, -1 Oblivion Stone, -1 Ensnaring Bridge, -1 Tabernacle (if they're not on TES),
+3 Chalice of the Void, +4 Sphere of Resistance, +4 Dark Confidant

You can also try boarding in Krosan Grips to get their Petals if they play them out early or an LED if the spell they cast afterwards isn't Hellbent-Infernal Tutor. I haven't playtested enough against Storm to know the efficacy of that play (probably pretty low), but the alternative is probably keeping in PFires in hopes to nab their own Dark Confidants if they run them or getting them if they Ad Nauseam too low. Intuition is pretty slow, but in desperate times you can Intuition for triple hate pieces.

Show and Tell
-1 Glacial Chasm, -1 Life from the Loam, -2 Engineered Explosives, -1 Maze of Ith, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Zuran Orb, -2 Entomb, -1 Bojuka Bog, -4 Punishing Fire,
+4 Dark Confidant, +4 Sphere, +3 Krosan Grip, +3 Chalice of the Void

Chalice is only okay because it doesn't directly hit their combo pieces, but it slows them down. You can also try keeping the PFires in and swapping out some other mediocre lands if they Griselbrand twice.

Delver
Generally have Surgicals/RIP
-1 Karakas, -3 Intuition, -2 Entomb, -1 Manabond
+4 Dark Confidant, +3 Chalice of the Void

Our matchup against Delver is already very, very good, so you can maybe forego the Dark Confidants for just the Chalice (taking out some number of Karakas, and Intuition I suppose). I don't bring in the Spheres against them because they aren't really needed and the prospect of getting tempo'd out under our own Spheres is probably very real.

Shardless
-1 Karakas, -2 Intuition, -1 Manabond
+4 Dark Confidant

Sideboarding isn't too tough. Against fair decks i.e. decks with grave hate you want to take out some of your graveyard reliant cards (Intuition, Entomb) and some of your toolbox cards (Bojuka Bog, Karakas) for your Dark Confidants. Against combo you just board out all your anti-creature/permanent cards for most of your sideboard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tyrio

I'm not sure exactly what your main deck is because your link is broken, but I would probably try something like:

Jund will bring in Surgicals, so you'll want your Tranquil Thickets. I haven't tried out the Spheres against them, but it seems very mediocre. I would do something like

-1 Karakas -2 Intuition, -1 Manabond
+4 Dark Confidant

Storm
-1 Karakas, -1 Glacial Chasm, -3 Maze of Ith, -1 Academy Ruins, -2 Engineered Explosives, -1 Oblivion Stone, -1 Ensnaring Bridge, -1 Tabernacle (if they're not on TES),
+3 Chalice of the Void, +4 Sphere of Resistance, +4 Dark Confidant

You can also try boarding in Krosan Grips to get their Petals if they play them out early or an LED if the spell they cast afterwards isn't Hellbent-Infernal Tutor. I haven't playtested enough against Storm to know the efficacy of that play (probably pretty low), but the alternative is probably keeping in PFires in hopes to nab their own Dark Confidants if they run them or getting them if they Ad Nauseam too low. Intuition is pretty slow, but in desperate times you can Intuition for triple hate pieces.

Show and Tell
-1 Glacial Chasm, -1 Life from the Loam, -2 Engineered Explosives, -1 Maze of Ith, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Zuran Orb, -2 Entomb, -1 Bojuka Bog, -4 Punishing Fire,
+4 Dark Confidant, +4 Sphere, +3 Krosan Grip, +3 Chalice of the Void

Chalice is only okay because it doesn't directly hit their combo pieces, but it slows them down. You can also try keeping the PFires in and swapping out some other mediocre lands if they Griselbrand twice.

Delver
Generally have Surgicals/RIP
-1 Karakas, -3 Intuition, -2 Entomb, -1 Manabond
+4 Dark Confidant, +3 Chalice of the Void

Our matchup against Delver is already very, very good, so you can maybe forego the Dark Confidants for just the Chalice (taking out some number of Karakas, and Intuition I suppose). I don't bring in the Spheres against them because they aren't really needed and the prospect of getting tempo'd out under our own Spheres is probably very real.

Shardless
-1 Karakas, -2 Intuition, -1 Manabond
+4 Dark Confidant

Sideboarding isn't too tough. Against fair decks i.e. decks with grave hate you want to take out some of your graveyard reliant cards (Intuition, Entomb) and some of your toolbox cards (Bojuka Bog, Karakas) for your Dark Confidants. Against combo you just board out all your anti-creature/permanent cards for most of your sideboard.

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Glacial chasm works on game 2 against show n tell since they bring in progenitus to fight karakas

should work now http://cl.ly/TvjE/untitled.pdf

But if not :

//Artifact (8)
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
1 Zuran Orb

//Enchantment (4)
4 Exploration

//Instant (8)
2 Entomb
2 Intuition
4 Punishing Fire

//Sorcery (4)
4 Life from the Loam

//Land (36)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bayou
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Rishadan Port
1 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 4 Dark Confidant
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markkugel

should work now http://cl.ly/TvjE/untitled.pdf

But if not :

//Artifact (8)
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
1 Zuran Orb

//Enchantment (4)
4 Exploration

//Instant (8)
2 Entomb
2 Intuition
4 Punishing Fire

//Sorcery (4)
4 Life from the Loam

//Land (36)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bayou
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Rishadan Port
1 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 4 Dark Confidant
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance

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I like your list but maybe im an old school player. Lands should start like:

4 Wasteland
4 Port
4 Maze
1 Chasm
1 Z. orb
4 Exploration
4 Loam
3 Intuition

+

35 Other cards

So, does anyone know about the Lands player that finished 17th in GP Paris?

I believe his list is featured in a decktech on the mothership with the event coverage. Search for Farmville

Not the same guy - Farmville did top 16. I played Lands (RG Gamble Version) in grinders on Friday, got paired vs Ub Omnishow in the first one and vs Tin Fins in the second one, was just able to snatch one game each match. But the deck itsself felt pretty consistent and crushed most Non-Combo, non-miracles MUs in testing easily with every second starting hand feeling like a nutsdraw.

Is miracles generally just a tough MU due to their ability to main deck rest in peace?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Is miracles generally just a tough MU due to their ability to main deck rest in peace?

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Well, most lists don't main it anymore. Pre-board recurring EE and PFire are all-stars to keep them off their wincons. If they steal a Loam early with VClique and then land Jace the game can get tough.

Post-board they'll have RiPs, some hateful men and more ways to find them than we do for our hate. I'd say the match up is in our favor pre-board and maybe slightly in their favor post.

Miracles is though because their usual draw neither cares about our creature defenses nor our mana denial. They also have solid answers to Loam in Counterbalance and Clique and it is hard to steal a game with Marit Lage. Of course it gets even worse if they maindeck Rest in Peace or, God forbid, Back to Basics. I guess blue Lands with recurring EE has much more game here.

their surgicals/snapcastersurgicals are tough.

EE shines in this matchup, and if they play well, they remove it.

another mathcup where wurmharvest shines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Is miracles generally just a tough MU due to their ability to main deck rest in peace?

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First game, the key is to set up an Academy Ruins / Engineered Explosive lock.
You can dodge Counter-Lock by over-paying Engineered (i.e. 3 green mana + 3 blue mana = 2 sunburst), and landing Explosive @0 will kill they Angels.