[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

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Originally Posted by H

Some nice new Judge foils coming though: Damnation, Ravages of War and Wasteland.

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What I wouldn't give to have that Wasteland art without all of the new border changes...

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Originally Posted by H

Some nice new Judge foils coming though: Damnation, Ravages of War and Wasteland.

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Another Judge Wasteland? No other Legacy/Vintage staple? Fuck that and give us Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, Yawgmoths Bargain or the like.

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Originally Posted by Undomian

What I wouldn't give to have that Wasteland art without all of the new border changes...

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You're so right. My initial reaction to the card was 'bleh', but with the old school border it'd be a damn good looking card I think.

http://i.imgur.com/I2ZhTFO.jpg
Bleh.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img1...8/70478541.jpg

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Another Judge Wasteland? No other Legacy/Vintage staple? Fuck that and give us Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, Yawgmoths Bargain or the like.

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Why do you want Bargain reprinted? There's already a foil version, and it's a cheap card. And it's in the Reserved List.

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Originally Posted by JohnGalt

Why do you want Bargain reprinted? There's already a foil version, and it's a cheap card. And it's in the Reserved List.

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I'm one of the new-boarder-only-for-conform-look freaks.

Seriously, why should Damnation or Dualcaster Mage get a fucking Judge Promo? Damnation has a new-boarder foil printing and Dualcaster is just crap without Eternal potential. It's not that they picked Containment Priest or Councils Judgement which at least see some play if it's all about foil versions of Commander set cards.

I can't really say, I hate the wasteland art. I just don't get comfortable with the frame

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

I'm one of the new-boarder-only-for-conform-look freaks.

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Conformist! :tongue:

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Seriously, why should Damnation or Dualcaster Mage get a fucking Judge Promo? Damnation has a new-boarder foil printing and Dualcaster is just crap without Eternal potential.

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Damnation as a judge promo means it is unlikely to be printed in MM2 or an upcoming set. Casuals have been clamoring for a reprint for quite a while now. Damnation makes sense here (if there are no plans for a standard reprint). Dualcaster Mage puzzles me though... I'd think True-Name Nemesis is on more people's wishlist for commander-cards-with-no-foil-printing.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Conformist! :tongue:


Damnation as a judge promo means it is unlikely to be printed in MM2 or an upcoming set. Casuals have been clamoring for a reprint for quite a while now. Damnation makes sense here (if there are no plans for a standard reprint). Dualcaster Mage puzzles me though... I'd think True-Name Nemesis is on more people's wishlist for commander-cards-with-no-foil-printing.

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Damnation is a EDH card and the demand for it, even in foil, is marginal. I expect the card to end up like Minds Desire as a 10€ card. I agree that TNN would have made Legacy people happy, but alone the fact that Feldon and not Titania is the Legends pick makes it clear, that their focus for Judge Foils isn't Legacy/Vintage or even Modern anymore, but the EDH ... pardon ... Commander crowd.

I believe Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor and Mana Drain are in the works.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Damnation is a EDH card and the demand for it, even in foil, is marginal.

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Damnation is an EDH card, but the demand for it is not marginal. It is a $40 dollar card with foils around $90. EVERY EDH ... pardon ... Commander (:wink:) deck that is in :b: but not :w: runs a copy or wants to but can't afford it.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

I expect the card to end up like Minds Desire as a 10€ card.

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Ugh...
Google, what is the euro symbol? Okay that matches...
Google, how much is 10 of those? Huh... $11, go figure.

I suspect the card will settle $5-10 lower than it's current price, and the judge foil will be comparable or a few bucks higher. Pack foil price won't change much.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

I agree that TNN would have made Legacy people happy, but alone the fact that Feldon and not Titania is the Legends pick makes it clear, that their focus for Judge Foils isn't Legacy/Vintage or even Modern anymore, but the EDH ... pardon ... Commander crowd.

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Keep in mind who these cards are for! *WARNING* I'm making up statistics because it is easier than conducting a formal study and these are guaranteed to support the point I am making. /*WARNING* Something like 100% of judges play EDH.

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Originally Posted by death

I believe Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor and Mana Drain are in the works.

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Wouldn't surprise me.

Edit: Would be even funnier if they made a mock death notice for R&D getting hit by a bus on April 1st.

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Originally Posted by death

Grim Tutor

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I'm expecting this since Imperial Recruiter in every new commander/judge print...

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Originally Posted by death

I believe Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor and Mana Drain are in the works.

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Drain is on the Reserved list, but since they started to include a Portal 3 Kindoms card in every of the last few Judge Promo announcements, speculating on Imperial Seal is valid.

@Damnation
The price has no legitimation as so many EDH cards have since the format became an official format called Commander and the prices quadrupled. Dack Fayden is 300$ in FOIL and even cards considered completely unplayable in other formats now cost serious money. Have you looked up Karmic Guides in FOIL? Jesus Christ! The whole Commander format is a single artificial pricebubble without related demand.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

The whole Commander format is a single artificial pricebubble without related demand.

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I'm going to assume your area isn't big into casual. In which case you have no way of knowing you are wrong... but EDH's popularity will outlive Legacy's. I'm not saying that due to liking one over the other. EDH is playable among the masses regardless of the Reserved List (can't get a copy of Damnation, sucks for you buddy. You have to use Mutilate instead). The Reserved List is a realistic threat to Legacy's long term viability. EDH is also a cash cow for WotC now (Commander... ugh). Again, I am not saying EDH>Legacy, just that EDH will be around longer as a viable format. And I am again basing that on statistics I made up, but are also correct.

Edit: INB4 but Damnation isn't on the Reserve List!
Substitute Underground Sea and Watery Grave for Damnation and Mutilate if you have a problem with me using the phrase "reserve list" in a sentence without referencing cards that are actually on it... my point is the same.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

@Damnation
The price has no legitimation as so many EDH cards have since the format became an official format called Commander and the prices quadrupled. Dack Fayden is 300$ in FOIL and even cards considered completely unplayable in other formats now cost serious money. Have you looked up Karmic Guides in FOIL? Jesus Christ! The whole Commander format is a single artificial pricebubble without related demand.

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Wasn't foil Karmic Guide a fad before sanctioned EDH? And isn't Dack's price more related to Vintage and being a special set?

p.s. I'm not being snide. I'm honestly wondering.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Drain is on the Reserved list

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Nope

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Drain is on the Reserved list

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Just like Karakas and a bunch of other uncommons :eyeroll:

[random comment about a random card appearing on reserve list although the card is not on the list]

That Wasteland art is weak.
Also, I'd love to see some real numbers on EDH community, but even without them I'm pretty sure that most of what Ace wrote is right.

Dude, Feldon of the Third Path is busted in half...AND he's a Tiny Leader

/sarcasm

I only wish they would update Karakas with art that doesn't suck. I am forced to rock the original Karakas because foil printing is THAT bad.

Also a shame they won't do literary quotations anymore, case in point: Wasteland

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

Wasn't foil Karmic Guide a fad before sanctioned EDH? And isn't Dack's price more related to Vintage and being a special set?

p.s. I'm not being snide. I'm honestly wondering.

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yes and yes

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Originally Posted by ReAnimator

Just like Karakas and a bunch of other uncommons :eyeroll:

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My bad guys. Get over it

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Drain is on the Reserved list, but since they started to include a Portal 3 Kindoms card in every of the last few Judge Promo announcements, speculating on Imperial Seal is valid.

@Damnation
The price has no legitimation as so many EDH cards have since the format became an official format called Commander and the prices quadrupled. Dack Fayden is 300$ in FOIL and even cards considered completely unplayable in other formats now cost serious money. Have you looked up Karmic Guides in FOIL? Jesus Christ! The whole Commander format is a single artificial pricebubble without related demand.

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Mana Drain isn't on the Reserved List. No uncommon is on the Reserved List.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

I'm going to assume your area isn't big into casual. In which case you have no way of knowing you are wrong... but EDH's popularity will outlive Legacy's. I'm not saying that due to liking one over the other. EDH is playable among the masses regardless of the Reserved List (can't get a copy of Damnation, sucks for you buddy. You have to use Mutilate instead). The Reserved List is a realistic threat to Legacy's long term viability. EDH is also a cash cow for WotC now (Commander... ugh). Again, I am not saying EDH>Legacy, just that EDH will be around longer as a viable format. And I am again basing that on statistics I made up, but are also correct.

Edit: INB4 but Damnation isn't on the Reserve List!
Substitute Underground Sea and Watery Grave for Damnation and Mutilate if you have a problem with me using the phrase "reserve list" in a sentence without referencing cards that are actually on it... my point is the same.

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I also think Commander will keep growing. And one of the reasons is precisely the Reserved List. As you don't need 4 Underground Sea, you just keep 1, sell the other 3, and now there are 4 players instead of just 1 (or you just lend them to friends). And therefore there are more players in the same area, so more tournaments are organized. And as more tournaments are organized, more people discover the format and also start playing, etc. (the network effect is very important for Magic, nobody makes a deck of a format that nobody plays).

Also, you don't have to have $100+ lands to build a fairly competitive EDH deck. Is it easier to win if you do? Yeah, probably, but that's true about basically every format in Magic.

And while I'm not convinced any of these judge foils will make a huge splash in Legacy, as someone trying to build a cube, anything that gets a Ravages of War reprint is a-ok by me.

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Originally Posted by JohnGalt

I also think Commander will keep growing. And one of the reasons is precisely the Reserved List. As you don't need 4 Underground Sea, you just keep 1, sell the other 3, and now there are 4 players instead of just 1 (or you just lend them to friends). And therefore there are more players in the same area, so more tournaments are organized. And as more tournaments are organized, more people discover the format and also start playing, etc. (the network effect is very important for Magic, nobody makes a deck of a format that nobody plays).

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On the other hand I would gladly loose 4 EDH-players in my community and turn their decks into one legacydeck with one of them playing legacy. EDH brings nothing to the table for us that dont touch the format with plyers.

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Originally Posted by useL

On the other hand I would gladly loose 4 EDH-players in my community and turn their decks into one legacydeck with one of them playing legacy. EDH brings nothing to the table for us that dont touch the format with plyers.

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That's why I always have two legacy decks. I rather give one of them to a friend that wants to play legacy instead of Modern or EDH.

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Originally Posted by useL

On the other hand I would gladly loose 4 EDH-players in my community and turn their decks into one legacydeck with one of them playing legacy. EDH brings nothing to the table for us that dont touch the format with plyers.

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I think most of us would be happy to see Legacy prices go down, more players join Legacy and/or have the Legacy community grow in general.

But WoTC is in the business of making money and EDH player, kitchen-table magic players specifically, are what sell product. Instead of dealing with the hassle of removing the Reserve list, it is much easier for WoTC, to keep printing casual geared product and grow the casual player base.

Growing the Commander lets them sell more Duel decks, Commander decks and provides incentives for judges with sweet Casual promos among other things. While this happens, they keep the reserve list intact and don't have to deal with a vocal portion of speculators that WILL complain or even sue if WoTC announces that the Reserve List is no longer an entity. That is my opinion.

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Originally Posted by JohnGalt

Mana Drain isn't on the Reserved List. No uncommon is on the Reserved List.

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Actually, there are a number of uncommons on the Reserved List, mainly due to how rares and uncommons were classified in the old days (U1 or U2 vs. U3, etc.). I'm not going to list any of the many U2s and U1s here, since we would classify them as rares today. But these are the U3s, or what we would classify as uncommons under the current system:

Bazaar of Baghdad
Citanul Druid
Damping Field
Gate to Phyrexia
Haunting Wind
Khabal Ghoul
Library of Alexandria
Martyrs of Korlis
Merchant Ship
Mightstone
Powerleech
Sandals of Abdallah
Su-Chi
Transmute Artifact
Weakstone

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Originally Posted by Plague Sliver

Also a shame they won't do literary quotations anymore, case in point: Wasteland

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Yeah, T.S. Eliot's Wasteland is the best wasteland.

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Originally Posted by GoblinZ

Yeah, T.S. Eliot's Wasteland is the best wasteland.

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That's one of the only foil cards I would ever play.

-Matt

I don't get the bitching about the new Wasteland art. It isn't the best thing ever, but it's solid. The frame, though...

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Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya

Growing the Commander lets them sell more Duel decks, Commander decks and provides incentives for judges with sweet Casual promos among other things. While this happens, they keep the reserve list intact and don't have to deal with a vocal portion of speculators that WILL complain or even sue if WoTC announces that the Reserve List is no longer an entity. That is my opinion.

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Does a class action suit even have a realistic chance to succeed? I know it's America where you can sue for all kinds of stupid shit and win, but still...

That said, I don't give a shit about the RL anymore. Asian fake card quality seems to be increasing quite a bit lately. It's only a matter of time now until they're perfect and then the prices will crash since a) demand can be fulfilled with cheap fakes and b) people are afraid to move their real cards/buy cards. And Wizards brought it upon themselves with their retarded police that does nothing but harm, just so that a few assholes can play stock market with cardboard.

I agree, the new Wasteland is gorgeous, I just wish it would have been old frame. That would have been a sick surprise.

-Matt

I always wonder what would happen if WotC technically sold the IP of Magic to a third party. Would the Reserved List still be binding? After all it's not inherent to Magic as an IP, just a promise of the company owning it how they will or will not distribute the product.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

I always wonder what would happen if WotC technically sold the IP of Magic to a third party. Would the Reserved List still be binding? After all it's not inherent to Magic as an IP, just a promise of the company owning it how they will or will not distribute the product.

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The third party company could reprint the RL staples into oblivion and drown in the tears of speculators - unless the deal somehow includes the condition not the reprint RL stuff (not happening since nobody in the business world gives a damn about that). The "promise" of Wizards is already questionable as legal base, but anybody else isn't bound by it in any form.

Didn't the initial copyright of MtG run out in 2013 and was prolonged?

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Originally Posted by Plague Sliver

Dude, Feldon of the Third Path is busted in half...AND he's a Tiny Leader

/sarcasm

I only wish they would update Karakas with art that doesn't suck. I am forced to rock the original Karakas because foil printing is THAT bad.

Also a shame they won't do literary quotations anymore, case in point: Wasteland

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They still do, just on cards that don't matter. I think there was a card in m15 with a Shakespeare quote.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

I'm one of the new-boarder-only-for-conform-look freaks.

Seriously, why should Damnation or Dualcaster Mage get a fucking Judge Promo?

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Literally the only person on the planet upset about a Damnation reprint.

I am shocked Dual got the shiny treatment over TNN.

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Originally Posted by mini1337s

Literally the only person on the planet upset about a Damnation reprint.

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Maybe "the only person on the planet" who thinks that such a card should be in Modern Masters as a Modern Legal card and that the Judge Foils would serve better for cards which can't be reprinted in a Modern legal set like FoWs/TNNs/SFMs/etc.

Perhaps, but that's far from Wizards vision of the Judge Rewards program. Otherwise we would not have over half of the cards in the Judge program geared towards commander or Cube. It's by no means a process to get cards into legacy.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but I see the Judge Rewards Promos as a means to "pay" the judges for all their hard work without getting into all sorts of international tax law messes. And let's be real...foil Legacy staples are a much better payout than some $40 card with ~$120 foils from a relatively recent set.