4 Card Blind

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity LL - I can try to stall on the play, but you can be patient.
11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit LW

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How does T2 Smallpox+Nether Spirit beat you when T1 Pox+Nether Spirit can't?
Either I missed an extra win here, or you should win one vs dte.

When you're on the draw, you can do nothing. dte has to cast Smallpox before you have any lands in play. You can then discard Isochron and play Sheltered Valley and Mishra's Factory. If Spirit attacks, Factory attacks back and Sheltered Valley should give you the edge in the race.

Edit: Interesting. If you play no lands, dte could do nothing until you're both at 2 life, then Smallpox skips his lethal trigger and puts you to 1 and you would lose on your turn. To avoid that you still have to act first even when dte is OTP, so he can remove 1 land to turn off your deck while Spirit races the Valley.
When we are both at 2 life, Pox also takes 1 life each so I could do the same thing. WW for me?

I need to rethink some of my other matchups I thought I lost OTP by acting first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon WL

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OTP you still can't play Isochron before Grief takes both spells from hand and the 4/3 Menace should race Factory + Valley. LL?

3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine

I expected a bunch of pox or smallpox so I played the anti-discard aggro deck. The reach also helps my decks a bunch.
With the help of the round rule I kill a goldfish t3 OTP to beat the more Durdley decks.

1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field
LL ?

2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity
WW 6-0 what I was trying to beat.

4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
I goldfish on t3 WW 6-0

5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
I have too much of a life total head start once we start racing. WW 6-0

6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger
WW?

7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar
I can only get you to 7 before you stabilize. LL 0-6


8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit
WW

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon
The plus 1 counter means I lose OTD. WL 3-3

10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim
You can’t daze vengevine. WW

11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit
What I was aiming to beat. WW

12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress
Once we are set up each person nets -1 life each turn. But I get a 3 damage head start even OTD. WW 6-0

13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
OTP I goldfish you to 1 so you die to either the round rule or my vengevine. OTD you stabilize on t4 at 5. WL 3-3


14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs
OTP I am to fast for you to deploy everything. OTD you are able to pox me just in time to stabilize at 5. WL 3-3


15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth LL 0-6

16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley LL 0-6
17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth LL 0-6
18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated WW 6-0

21 W 13 L for 63/102?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJim

10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim
60 points

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Nice deck. Daze + Claim was strong against all the turn 2 decks and Sheltered Valleys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Edit: Interesting. If you play no lands, dte could do nothing until you're both at 2 life, then Smallpox skips his lethal trigger and puts you to 1 and you would lose on your turn. To avoid that you still have to act first even when dte is OTP, so he can remove 1 land to turn off your deck while Spirit races the Valley.
When we are both at 2 life, Pox also takes 1 life each so I could do the same thing. WW for me?

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Makes sense to me.

Quote:

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OTP you still can't play Isochron before Grief takes both spells from hand and the 4/3 Menace should race Factory + Valley. LL?

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I missed that Grief has menace, which looks silly in hindsight because of course grief shouldn't be easy to block.

me: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival

Again, this is a deck from earlier in this thread. If I don't get rid of Noxious Revival
sooner due to discard, I can cast it targeting a Lotus Bloom between when I cast
Barren Glory and my next turn to empty my hand. In particular, I goldfish on T5.


63 points



1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field WW 6-0

Since Inkmoth Nexus will have infect, it won't cause me to lose any life.
It also can't sufficiently poison me in time, so it doesn't affect this matchup.
Thus, we start with you playing T1 Sleeper Agent. On each of my first 4 turns,
I take 2 damage from Sleeper Agent lose 2 life to the round rule.
On your T5, I pay 2 life for Noxious Revival. That leaves my at 2 life.
In my T5 upkeep, I control both triggers, so I put the Barren Glory trigger on top.
That wins for me before the Sleeper Agent trigger would kill me.


2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity WW 6-0

Smallpox can't make me sacrifice an artifact or enchantment, and Noxious Revival would
be the last card to leave my hand, so I can just discard Noxious Revival to Smallpox.
I lose 1 life to Smallpox or pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
Nether Spirit doesn't have haste, so Nether Spirit attacks at most 4 times before my T5.
On each of my first 4 turns, I lose 2 life to the round rule.
That totals at most 18 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.



3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine WW 6-0


I see that we disagree here. I believe you missed
that I can obNoxiously :smile: Revive Vengevine.

If you do nothing, then I use Noxious Revival on a Lotus Bloom in the
end step just before my T5, in which case I win without any attacks.
Thus, we start with with you T1 tapping Bazaar of Baghdad.
With both madness triggers still on the stack or in response to Vengevine's trigger
or anytime in-between, I cast Noxious Revival targetting Vengevine.
Since Bazaar of Baghdad will already be tapped and you can't cast anything else,
that completely stops Vengevine, so you just get two 1/1s.
They don't have haste, so they deal at most 8 damage before my T5.
I paid 2 life for Noxious Revival, and I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5.
That totals at most 18 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.



4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival this is me


5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven WW 6-0

I show that I get WW even without Noxious Revival targeting Cauldron Familiar.
For this showing, Duress taking Noxious Revival only helps me.
Duress is a Sorcery, so if it takes anything else before I cast Barren Glory,
then in the end step I cast Noxious Revival targeting whatever I discarded.
In such cases, I draw whatever I discarded before my next turn's main phases,
so that does not slow me down. After I cast Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
is the only thing Duress could take, and as I mentioned, that only helps me.
Thus, for this showing, Duress doesn't help you.
On your T1, I can lose 1 life to Cauldron Familiar, but I can't
lose more before your T2, since your creature doesn't have haste
and you can't cast both parts of your combo in the same turn.
For each of your 4 turns after that, I take 1 combat damage from
Cauldron Familiar and lose 1 life to it re-entering the battlefield.
I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 19 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.


6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger WL 3-3

On T1, Village Messenger attacks for 1. Noxious Revival won't have a target until T4,
so I can't stop your creature from transforming during your T2 upkeep.
On T2 and T3, Moonrise Intruder attacks for 2 each, but you can't deal
any more damage during those turns, since either Keldon Megaliths
will be tapped or Frostwalk Bastion would be summoning-sick.
On T4, Keldon Megaliths would deal less damage to me than Frostwalk Bastion,
so Frostwalk Bastion and your other creature attack, dealing 3 or 4 damage to me.
At this point, you have dealt at most 9 damage to me. I lose 8 life
to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 19 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me when I am OTP.
When I am OTD, you attack me on T5 too, dealing at least 3 damage to me.
At this point, you have deal at least 11 damage to me,
and I have lost 8 life to the round rule.
That totals at least 19 life lost, so I can't afford Noxious Revival,
which means I lose no later than my T5 end step.



7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar WL 3-3


when I am OTP:
I lose 1 life on your T1, since Cauldron Familiar doesn't have haste.
On your T2, I take 1 combat damage from Cauldron Familiar
and lose 1 life to it re-entering the battlefield.
For each of your 2 turns after that, I take 1 combat damage from
Cauldron Familiar and lose 2 life to it re-entering the battlefield.
I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 19 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.

when I am OTD:
If I don't cast Noxious Revival targeting Cauldron Familiar, then
before my T5, I will lose 12 life instead of 9 life to your stuff
(as opposed to the round rule and paying for Noxious Revival).
In that case, since I would also lose 8 life to the round rule,
I would lose the game before my T5.
If I use Noxious Revival targeting Cauldron Familiar on T3 or later, that saves me 2 life
from 2 Cauldron Familiar entries on that turn, but no more, since you still get that
turn's attack and for your next turn, you get an additional entry instead of an attack.
That results in me losing 10 life to your stuff before my T5.
If I use Noxious Revival targeting Cauldron Familiar on T2, then my life-loss pattern is
[T1: 1 from entry] , [T2: 1 combat] , [T3: 2 from entry] , [T4+T5: 2 each from entry] .
That results in me still losing 10 life to your stuff before my T5.
In either case, I also pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival and lose
8 life to the round rule, so I still lose the game before my T5.



8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit WW 6-0

Smallpox can't make me sacrifice an artifact or enchantment, and Noxious Revival would
be the last card to leave my hand, so I can just discard Noxious Revival to Smallpox.
I lose 1 life to Smallpox or pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
Nether Spirit doesn't have haste, so Nether Spirit attacks at most 4 times before my T5.
On each of my first 4 turns, I lose 2 life to the round rule.
That totals at most 18 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.


9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon LL 0-6

You play Swamp, then pitch Vampire to evoke Grief
and put the EtB trigger above the evoke trigger.
Before the Evoke trigger resolves, but either before or after
the EtB trigger resolves, you cast Undying Evil targeting Grief.
Grief takes Noxious Revival, and Grief is not yet in a graveyard,
me casting Noxious Revival instead of discarding it doesn't help me.
Grief returns as a 4/3, so it can deal at least 12 damage to me before my T5.
I also lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, so you win.


10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim LL 0-6

You cast Daze on Barren Glory. Me getting it back doesn't help me,
since I won't be able to cast it again, so your 1/1 wins for you.



11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit WL 3-3


For my initial post, I had confused Pox with Smallpox.
I realized this when I read through FTW's results-post.

when I am OTD:
You cast T1 Pox. That makes me discard 2 cards, so I can't win.
You discard Nether Spirit, which then wins for you.

when I am OTP:
I suspend both Lotus Blooms on T1, so I won't have to discard more than 1 card to Pox.
Noxious Revival would be the last card to leave my hand,
so Pox can't make me discard Barren Glory.
Smallpox also doesn't affect artifacts or enchantments on the battlefield,
so it can't stop Barren Glory that way either.
If you do nothing before your T4 end step, then I
cast Noxious Revival that step, to win with 10 life left.
If you cast Nether Spirit before that step, then it only gets 3 attacks before my T5.
Those would cause me to lose at 6 life. I pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival
and lose 8 life to the round rule, so I would win with 4 life left.
If you cast Pox before your T4 end step, then I discard.
You get Nether Spirit back on T2, so it only gets 2 attacks before my T5.
In that case, Pox makes me lose 7 life, Nether Spirit makes me lose 4 life,
the round rule makes me lose 8 life, and I discarded Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 19 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.



12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress WW 6-0

Urborg vs Swamp doesn't matter here, so this works the same as me against alphastryk.


13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix WW 6-0

You cast Isochron Scepter on your T2, and don't have mana to
activate it that turn, so you only get 3 activations before my T5.
Those activations only deal 9 damage to me.
I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 19 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.


14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs WW 6-0

Smallpox can't make me sacrifice an artifact or enchantment, and Noxious Revival would
be the last card to leave my hand, so I can just discard Noxious Revival to Smallpox.
I lose 1 life to Smallpox or pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
Before my T5, I lose at most 3 life to Sanctum of Stone Fangs.
I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 13 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.


15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth LL 0-6

You win on your T3. (It would be T4, but the round rule speeds things up.)


16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley WW 6-0

Before my T5, I lose at most 3 life to Sanctum of Stone Fangs.
I lose 8 life to the round rule before my T5, and pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
That totals at most 13 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.



17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth LL 0-6

You win on your T3. (It would be T4, but the round rule speeds things up.)


18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated LL 0-6

You cast Karn Liberated on T3, so you can exile
Barren Glory from the battlefield if I cast it.
Otherwise, you use his +4 on your turns 3,4,5,6.
The result of that is, on T7, Karn has exiled Barren Glory and has at least 15 loyalty.
Thus, you get his ultimate on T7, which is before you could lose to the round rule,
and restart with Barren Glory on the battlefield under your control.
This time, you use his +4 on T3 and T4, and exile your
own lands followed by Karn himself on your turns 5,6,7,8.
That lets you win on T9, still before you could lose to the round rule.

My deck

15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth

Why? As DTE, I thought Grief would be way more popular. In particular because it seems to be a strict upgrade to Unmask which was banned the round before.
I built several leyline deck but none of them was really convincing and too narrow except Leyline of the meek / Leyline of Sanctity / great furnace / rebirth.
Then, I looked at option available to beat greaf. Land.dek was good at it, but felt a little bit weak as well. DS was not too bad but I was not convinced as well as it loses vs Grief OTP.
Then, I realize we could just ignore Grief by playing 3 Chancellor and thought this deck would be popular as there was several occurences last season.

So, I decided to take back and play Rebirth / Furnace in order to beat the mirror since :
- Grief + Field of Despair was also beating the 3*chancellor version OTD
- Little bit slower vs control but bigger vs other creatures deck
- I was not expecting duress to be popular


The entries:
1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field
WL - I like this synergy
3 Pts
Turn 1, 4Token M20-Y18
Turn2 Sea M20-Y16
Turn3 Attack M20-Y8
Turn4 Field M20-Y6
Turn5 Nothing M18-Y6
Turn6 Sleeper Agent M18-Y4
Turn7 M14-Y4 M14-Y2 M10-Y2 M10-Y0

On the draw, I am too slow.

2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity WL
WW - I am too fast
9Pts

3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
WW
15 Pts
OTP
Turn1, 4 Token M20-Y18
Turn2, Get your 3 creatures in play. If you attack with VV, I trade with two tokens and I win the race, so you dont. M20-Y16
Turn3, Nothing M18-Y16. Now, if you dont dont attack, you will lose the race, so you have to. I double block Vine, eat a token if you attack and win from there.

OTD
Turn1, Get your 3 creatures in play, attack with VV block with token M20-Y18
Turn2, Create 3 tokens M18-Y18
Turn3 is similar scenario to OTP, I eat VV if vengevine with two token. And Antagonism will kill you first.


4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
WW - I had a similar deck with triple bloom + Worldfire and it was not kept because too slow
21 Pts
I kill on T3 in gold fish
OTD
T1 Y18-M20
T2 Y16-M20
T3 Y14-M20
T4 Y6-M20
T5 Y4-M20
T6 -4-20

5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
WL
24 Pts
OTD you grab rebirth, GG
OTP you can not really block profitably and I am too fast

6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger
WW - I am too fast
30 Pts
OTD
Turn1 Mountain Messenger M20-Y18
Turn2 Attack, play 3 Token M20-Y16
Turn3 Megalith M20-Y14
Turn4 Messnger flips, Attack with 4 Tokens, One trade M20-8
And you die turn 6 or 8

7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar
WW - I am too fast
36Pts
You drain for +2/-2 per turn while I deal 6 damage

8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit
WW
42 Pts
OTD
Turn1 Stronghold M20-Y18
Turn2 Attack with one token, 3 more are played M20-Y16
Turn3 Play Pox, discard Spirit, me sac a token, play Valley M20-Y16
Turn4 Attack with 3 Token M20-Y10
Turn5 +1Life, returns Spirit M20-Y9
TurnXX I play the waiting game M18-Y9 -> M18-Y8 -> M16-Y8 -> .... -> M6-Y2 and I attack with two tokens for the win

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon
WL
45 Pts
OTD, you grab rebirth game over
OTP
Turn1, 4 Token M20-Y18
Turn2, two options Grief 4/3 or Vampire + Evil for next turn
If you play grief, I play the waiting game and I win
If you play vampire. M20-Y16
Turn3, Attack with 4 Tokens M20-Y8
And you life total is too low

10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim
WW
51 Pts
Chancelor wins alone

11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit
WW
57Pts
OTP
Turn 1, 2/2 attack, 3 2/2 Are played M20-Y18
Turn2 Pox, Spirit in the Grave, 2 2/2 are sacrified M13-Y12
Turn3 2 2/2 attack N13-L8
Turn4 Spirit come back, waiting game from there and I win

Similar OTD

12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress
WL
60 Pts
See alphastryk

13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
WL
63 Pts

OTP
Turn1 M20-Y18
Turn2 Valley M20-Y16
Turn3 M20-Y8
Turn4 +1Life, Play Scepter M20-Y7
Turn5 Attack for 8

OTD
Turn1 Valley M20-Y18
Turn2 1 2/2 Attack, 3 2/2 played M20-Y16
Turn3 +1 Life, play scepter M20-Y15
Turn4 Attack for 8, M20-Y7
Turn5 +1 Life, Shoot a token +3Life, -2Life Emblem, M20-Y9
Turn6 Attack for 6, M20-Y3
Turn7 +1 Life Shoot a token +3Life, -2 Life Emblem, M20-Y5
Turn8 Attack for 4, M20-Y1
Turn9 +1 Life Shoot a token +3Life, -2 Life Emblem, M20-Y3
Turn10 Attack for 2, and you win, a close one

14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs]
WW
69 Pts
OTP
Turn1 2/2 attack, 3 tokens are played M20-Y18
Turn2 Maze, M20-Y16
Turn3 Attack, Maze prevents one M20-Y10
Turn4 Pox too slow and you can not cast sanctum anymore. Sanctum too slow as well

OTD
Turn1 Maze M20-Y18
Turn2 3 Tokens, maze prevents M18-Y18
Turn3 Play Sanctum M18-Y16
Turn4 Attack with 4 tokens M18-Y8
Turn5 M17-Y9, Play Pox, Token is sacced M16-Y8
Turn6 Attack with 3 tokens M16-Y2
Turn7 M15-Y3
Turn8 Attack with 3 tokens gg

16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley
LL
69 Pts

17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
WL the Mirror
72 Pts
18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated
WW - Too slow
78 Pts

A good choice for this round, triple chancellor was probably even better since chancellor and creature deck did not show up.

I can't believe GoblinSmashmaster missed a chance to smash with goblins.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phasmoid

me: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival

2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity WW 6-0

I don't target you, so this is no better for you than for FTW.

8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit WW 6-0

I don't care about your life total, so this is no better for you than for FTW.

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Pox is a different card from Smallpox.
Smallpox only discards 1 and takes 1 life, so you can discard or cast Noxious and keep Barren Glory to win.
Pox takes 1/3 of your hand and 1/3 of your life, rounded up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phasmoid

11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit WW 6-0

Smallpox can't make me sacrifice an artifact or enchantment, and Noxious Revival would
be the last card to leave my hand, so I can just discard Noxious Revival to Smallpox.
I lose 1 life to Smallpox or pay 2 life to cast Noxious Revival.
Nether Spirit doesn't have haste, so Nether Spirit attacks at most 4 times before my T5.
On each of my first 4 turns, I lose 2 life to the round rule.
That totals at most 18 life lost, so Barren Glory wins for me.

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When I go first, you still have Lotus Blooms in hand (4 card hand) so Pox discards 2 cards from you. You can't win after discarding 2.
When you go first, you can suspend the Lotus Blooms first (2 card hand) so Pox can only discard 1 card but still takes 6 life from you. Nether Spirit is too slow, so you win at 2 life.

Edit: I see you already noticed and corrected it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattamort

My deck

15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth

Why? As DTE, I thought Grief would be way more popular. In particular because it seems to be a strict upgrade to Unmask which was banned the round before.
I built several leyline deck but none of them was really convincing and too narrow except Leyline of the meek / Leyline of Sanctity / great furnace / rebirth.
Then, I looked at option available to beat greaf. Land.dek was good at it, but felt a little bit weak as well. DS was not too bad but I was not convinced as well as it loses vs Grief OTP.
Then, I realize we could just ignore Grief by playing 3 Chancellor and thought this deck would be popular as there was several occurences last season.

So, I decided to take back and play Rebirth / Furnace in order to beat the mirror since :
- Grief + Field of Despair was also beating the 3*chancellor version OTD
- Little bit slower vs control but bigger vs other creatures deck
- I was not expecting duress to be popular

A good choice for this round, triple chancellor was probably even better since chancellor and creature deck did not show up.

---

Smart deck choice! Rebirth was good tech to beat 3x Chancellor, which surprisingly GoblinSmashmaster did not play!

I was counting on him to validate my choice :laugh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattamort

My deck

15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth

Why? As DTE, I thought Grief would be way more popular. In particular because it seems to be a strict upgrade to Unmask which was banned the round before.
I built several leyline deck but none of them was really convincing and too narrow except Leyline of the meek / Leyline of Sanctity / great furnace / rebirth.
Then, I looked at option available to beat greaf. Land.dek was good at it, but felt a little bit weak as well. DS was not too bad but I was not convinced as well as it loses vs Grief OTP.
Then, I realize we could just ignore Grief by playing 3 Chancellor and thought this deck would be popular as there was several occurences last season.

So, I decided to take back and play Rebirth / Furnace in order to beat the mirror since :
- Grief + Field of Despair was also beating the 3*chancellor version OTD
- Little bit slower vs control but bigger vs other creatures deck
- I was not expecting duress to be popular

---

Once again, just to be a little bit more precise, we discussed all the possible decks and ended up with a meta of:
Lands deck (Something like maze of ith, mishra's factory, sheltered valley and leyline of sanctity)
Control with energy field or island sanctuary + valey and something to deal damage (Megaliths)
Discard (Grief + ephemerate or reanimate, we skipped undiying evil but that was a nice find Gobelinsmashmaster, but our 4th card was force of despair against goblin decks)
Ultra aggro (Triple chancellor plus leyline of the meek or chancellor + rebirth).
Death shadow + discard + removal.
One fun deck that was not mentionned but was probably too bad: Triple lotus bloom + worldfire (only wins vs control and lands).

Then, we made separate choices.
I personnaly liked the fact that those triple gobs could nearly ensure each time a win OTD and i really thought they would be popular... it's indeed a real surprise to see goblinsmashmaster playing grief over gobs. So i choose the slower version that produces 4 bodies to win against the Ultra-ultra aggro version of 3 chancellors...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
I goldfish on t3 WW 6-0

---

You goldfish on T3, but I am not a goldfish: I can obNoxiously :smile: Revive Vengevine.
I believe this is WW for me. My results-post has analysis for this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattamort

My deck

15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth

1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field
WL - I like this synergy
3 Pts
Turn 1, 4Token M20-Y18
Turn2 Sea M20-Y16
Turn3 Attack M20-Y8
Turn4 Field M20-Y6
Turn5 Nothing M18-Y6
Turn6 Sleeper Agent M18-Y4
Turn7 M14-Y4 M14-Y2 M10-Y2 M10-Y0

On the draw, I am too slow.

---

I would like to point out that you're getting a "free" Sleeper Agent on my first turn.

I would also like to point out that I screwed up and sent myself the wrong Nexus, but that's beside the point. :tongue:

Thinking about jhhdk's submission makes me realize that, for round-rules,
I don't know if this thread has decided how it would handle the situation of

an infinite loop, with each player taking infinitely many full turns
where
1 of the players is taking optional actions and the other is doing nothing

.


Specifically, this could have happened for

jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated
hypothetical: Cave-In, Cave-In, Pyrokinesis, Pyrokinesis

.


I will refer to hypothetical as NPD, for "no permanents deck".
NPD can cast Cave-In on T1 and T2, to take a lead in life due to the round rule,
so jhhdk needs to restart the game before jhhdk loses to the round rule.
jhhdk can do that by using Karn's +4 on T3 and T4 and the
ultimate on T5, since jhhdk loses at most 12 life in the meantime.
Karn's rulings state "The player who controlled the ability that
restarted the game is the starting player in the new game.",
so after a restart, jhhdk would lose to the round rule if no one does anything.
Even if NPD still does nothing, the only way jhhdk
can avoid that is by restarting the game again.

This would result in an infinite loop where each player takes infinitely many full turns,
during which NPD is doing nothing and jhhdk is taking optional actions.
Would jhhdk have to break that loop, and thereby lose?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phasmoid

Thinking about jhhdk's submission makes me realize that, for round-rules,
I don't know if this thread has decided how it would handle the situation of

an infinite loop, with each player taking infinitely many full turns
where
1 of the players is taking optional actions and the other is doing nothing

.


Specifically, this could have happened for

jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated
hypothetical: Cave-In, Cave-In, Pyrokinesis, Pyrokinesis

.


I will refer to hypothetical as NPD, for "no permanents deck".
NPD can cast Cave-In on T1 and T2, to take a lead in life due to the round rule,
so jhhdk needs to restart the game before jhhdk loses to the round rule.
jhhdk can do that by using Karn's +4 on T3 and T4 and the
ultimate on T5, since jhhdk loses at most 12 life in the meantime.
Karn's rulings state "The player who controlled the ability that
restarted the game is the starting player in the new game.",
so after a restart, jhhdk would lose to the round rule if no one does anything.
Even if NPD still does nothing, the only way jhhdk
can avoid that is by restarting the game again.

This would result in an infinite loop where each player takes infinitely many full turns,
during which NPD is doing nothing and jhhdk is taking optional actions.
Would jhhdk have to break that loop, and thereby lose?

---

We have already dealt with the world of loop rules (it cost me points because I used the targeting Time Warp), and jhhdk would indeed have to break the loop by losing.

EvilGriefmaster Results for Round "I missed Goblins again :("

This round we play Antagonism: At the beginning of each player’s end step, that player loses 2 life unless one of their opponents lost life that turn.
(This triggered ability has no controller or target, so effects that care about either will do nothing.)

1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field
Grief the field 6-0

2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity
Vampire undies 3-3

3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
Grief beats revenge 3-3

4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
Grief over glory 6-0

5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
Grief is familiar 6-0

6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger
Grief the village 6-0

7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar
Grief in the oven 6-0

8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit
Grief smallpox 6-0

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon
That's me causing grief with nongoblins ???

10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim
Grief leaves you dazed 6-0

11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit
Grief pox 3-3

12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress
Grief is familiar 6-0

13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
Grief the scepter 6-0

14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs
Grief is amazed 3-3

15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
Grief before rebirth 3-3

16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley
Grief the field 6-0

17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
Grief before rebirth 3-3

18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated
Grief before liberation 6-0

Total: 84 points :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phasmoid

You goldfish on T3, but I am not a goldfish: I can obNoxiously :smile: Revive Vengevine.
I believe this is WW for me. My results-post has analysis for this.

---

You are correct that I can’t play around the gy hate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asthereal

I would like to point out that you're getting a "free" Sleeper Agent on my first turn.

I would also like to point out that I screwed up and sent myself the wrong Nexus, but that's beside the point.

---

I assumed sleeper agent was on your upkeep to satisfy the round rules. Actually WW for me since you can’t recover From the more than 10 point head-start in life.

Fun round, I originally thought to go with Energy Field or Island Sanctuary, but realized Energy Fields doesn't stop the round rule and Sanctuary is narrow.

1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field
OTP Duress takes Energy Field. OTD I *think* because Inkmoth doesn't deal cause loss of life that I win the races against both Inkmoth and Agent with the combination of Cat+Oven and the round rule? Will revisit math on this. Tentative WW

6-0

2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity
Leyline beats Duress, but my combo is too slow to beat Smallpox OTD. WL

3-3

3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
You're too fast. LL

0-6

4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
Great choice as it races the round rule and beats single discard including Smallpox. LL

0-6

5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
My Cat+Oven deck

6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger
Duress, is a blank, and I think you just have too many threats. LL

0-6

7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar
The Cat+Oven mirror! Double Oven is faster, so I have to Duress one of yours. After that it turns into a staring / draining contest. DD

2-2

8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit
OTP I can Duress Smallpox, but I can't ever win the race. LL

0-6

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon
OTP I can Duress Undying Evil, leaving you with the choice of Vampire or evoking Grief. If you play Vampire, you lose to Cat + Oven. Instead, you can evoke Grief for the draw. OTD You can evoke Grief and get it back with Undying Evil, and kill me with Grief. DL

1-4

10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim
OTP Familiar wins the race, OTP I can't beat Daze + Claim. WL

3-3

11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit
OTP I can Duress Ritual for the win, OTD I can't beat Pox. WL

3-3

12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress
The true Cat+Oven mirror! Whoever is OTP can jam Oven to protect it from Duress. WL

3-3

13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
Duress can always take Scepter, and Cat + Oven races Factory + Valley because I can always block Factory + sacrifice to Oven, then rebuy Cat on my turn to avoid the round rule. WW

6-0

14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs
OTP, I can Duress Sanctum and play Cat, and the Cat's ETB trigger combined with the round rule wins it. OTD, I have to Duress Smallpox, but it becomes a race between your turn 2 Sanctum and my turn 3 Cat+Oven. From there, we trade life draining forever for the draw. WD

4-1

15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
OTP I Duress Rebirth for the win, OTD I'm too slow. WL

3-3

16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley
Duress is always able to take away Sanctum, and Energy Field doesn't stop the round rule. WW

6-0

17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
OTP I Duress Rebirth for the win, OTD I'm too slow. WL

3-3

18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated
Duress Karn. WW

6-0

Total: 49 points if my math is right

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

EvilGriefmaster Results for Round "I missed Goblins again :("

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

Total: 84 points :confused:

---

So, not smashing with goblins, but that seems like a smashing performance anyway. :smile:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asthereal

I would like to point out that you're getting a "free" Sleeper Agent on my first turn.

I would also like to point out that I screwed up and sent myself the wrong Nexus, but that's beside the point. :tongue:

---

Is this another case of Asthereal loses to own round rules?

Energy Field doesn't prevent the life loss
Sleeper Agent damaged happens on the wrong player's turn to prevent the trigger
Inkmoth Nexus damage is replaced by poison counters, so it doesn't get sped up by the Antagonism clock, and I think the life loss might still happen but not 100% sure

Thanks for doing such a great job organizing 4CB though! These deviant rounds have been very creative and fun.

I'll put up a full results post tomorrow, but

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger
Grief the village 6-0

---

I think this one's 6-0 in my favour.

OTP, I lead Messenger, Grief becomes a dead card, Keldon Megaliths kills the Vampire the first time and Frostwalk Bastion trades with it for the second. Messenger, once transformed into Intruder, beats down.
OTD, mostly the same situation. You can Grief Village Messenger, but it doesn't much help you - in that case I can Megaliths activation to kill the Vampire and you have no Undying Evil to protect it, and then Frostwalk Bastion beats you down.

I see some disagreements above.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

EvilGriefmaster Results for Round "I missed Goblins again :("
2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity
Vampire undies 6-0

---

dte has this 6-0 the other way from Leyline stopping Grief, but seems to have missed the line of playing out the Vampire and Undying it to get a 2/2 lifelink that races Nether Spirit after the round rule life loss
I think both of you are wrong. This looks like WL 3-3


GoblinSmashmaster OTP
G - Vampire, lose 2
D - Stronghold, lose 2 [G=18, D=18]

G - Attack for 1 lifelink, hold open mana [G=19, D=17]
D - Smallpox. Respond with Undying Evil, returning Vampire as a 2/2 lifelink. [G=18, D=16]

G - Attack for 2 lifelink [G=20, D=14]
D - Nether spirit returns with summoning sickness [G=20, D=12]

At this point the race is so skewed that either the round rule wins or Nether Spirit attacks and Vampire attacks back for even more
G wins

DTE OTP
D - Stronghold, lose 2
G - Do nothing, lose 2 [D=18, G=18]
Here Vampire is too slow to get Undying Evil up before Smallpox would kill it, but the round rule threatens to kill dte first

If D casts Smallpox from 2 life, G discards Grief and plays Swamp + Vampire with Undying Evil still in hand. D skips 1 lifeloss trigger while G doesn't [D=1, G=-1]. So G must act sooner. But if G casts 4/3 Grief or 1/1 Vampire, D can Smallpox immediately after (dodging Undying Evil) to remove the threat and win.
D wins

WL 3-3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

EvilGriefmaster Results for Round "I missed Goblins again :("
5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
Grief is familiar 6-0

---

alphastryk has this as DL 1-4 (or WD 4-1 for you)

OTP, if alphastryk uses Duress on Undying Evil, you can't make Grief. But Grief can evoke to take Cauldron Familiar, so neither player has a wincon. Then the round rule kills alphastryk first so it's not a draw.

WW 6-0 for GoblinSmashmaster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shiftyhomunculus

I think this one's 6-0 in my favour.

OTP, I lead Messenger, Grief becomes a dead card, Keldon Megaliths kills the Vampire the first time and Frostwalk Bastion trades with it for the second. Messenger, once transformed into Intruder, beats down.
OTD, mostly the same situation. You can Grief Village Messenger, but it doesn't much help you - in that case I can Megaliths activation to kill the Vampire and you have no Undying Evil to protect it, and then Frostwalk Bastion beats you down.

---

I think GoblinSmashmaster is right here. Grief is never a dead card. Fail case is a 4/3 Menace on turn 1! (optimal case is a 4/3 Menace double Thought-Knot Seer)

OTD Grief takes Messenger and the 4/3 Menace can't be blocked by your manland and races it easily.
OTP you make hasty Messenger first, Grief misses but is still a 4/3 Menace, Messenger doesn't transform right away due to the Grief cast and has to skip an attack, then Grief gets the first Menace attack in for 4 damage. Eventually you can threaten to use the manland to double block, but you're behind enough in the race that if you both "do nothing" the rule kills you first. If you use Megaliths to avoid the trigger, you have to activate on your turn, which leaves you open to attacks back from Grief. I don't see a way you win that race either. 4/3 Menace is big.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

alphastryk has this as DL 1-4 (or WD 4-1 for you)

OTP, if alphastryk uses Duress on Undying Evil, you can't make Grief. But Grief can evoke to take Cauldron Familiar, so neither player has a wincon. Then the round rule kills alphastryk first so it's not a draw.

WW 6-0 for GoblinSmashmaster

---

This makes sense to me - no draws without some way of the round rule stopping. Will update the spreadsheet.

8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit

1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field You have to be proactive because otherwise I will win with Sheltered Valley. Smallpox beats energy field, and means you have to choose between playing Sleeper Agent and being able to block my Nether Spirit with Nexus. Either way I win. WW

2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity Sheltered Valley means I win this mirror. WW

3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine This is way too fast for me, and Smallpox basically does nothing. LL

4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival Noxious revival means you can get back anything I make you discard, and Barren Glory wins before I can. LL

5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven OTP you can Duress Smallpox, then win due to round rule since you can block each turn. I can't win the race OTD, Familiar stays back to block and always comes into play to prevent damage from the round rule. LL

6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger OTD I will wait to play Smallpox until you have played a land. If you wait I will play Stronghold then win with Sheltered Valley, so you have to play something. You can only win with Messenger, since I can destroy one of your lands so you can't do anything with Megaliths or Bastion. This means you have to keep Messenger and another card in hand until I Smallpox, since otherwise I kill or make you discard Messenger. However, there is no pressure for me to do so, so I wait and still win with Sheltered Valley. OTP is the same. WW

7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar OTP Smallpox kills your land before you can assemble Cat + Oven, so I win. OTD you get Cat + Oven into play, then I play Smallpox making you discard the other Oven. H can make Familiar stay back to block and always come into play to prevent damage from the round rule, so I can't race. WL

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon OTP Grief makes me discard Smallpox and then wins the race. LL

10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim I can't win through Sea's Claim. LL

11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit I can always get Sheltered Valley into play and our Nether Spirits stall out, so I win. WW

12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress
Same as alphastryk. LL

13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix OTP I Smallpox a land so you never get to 2 mana and I win by attacking with Nether Spirit. OTD I Smallpox a land after you play Scepter, which means you can't activate the Scepter and I win by attacking with Nether Spirit again. WW

14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs OTP I Smallpox one of your lands and win with Sheltered Valley. OTD you play Sanctum on turn 2. I now lose unless I can kill Maze of Ith, but I can't kill 2 lands or force you to play Smallpox so I lose. WL

15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth This is way too fast for me. LL

16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley OTP I make you sacrifice a land before you can play anything so I win. OTD you can play one enchantment before I Smallpox. If you play Energy Field Smallpox just makes you sacrifice it, so you play Sanctum. With Nether Spirit I attack for 2 each turn and gain 1 from Sheltered Valley, and you gain 2 life each turn and deal 1 damage to me. Neither of us takes damage due to the round rule, so we draw. WD

17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth This is way too fast for me. LL

18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated I destroy one of your lands before you get to Karn. WW

15W 1D 18L = 46

I didn't think of anything great this week, so I just hoped people would be on decks that lost to land destruction or that could be stalled out. Turns out that wasn't a great choice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alphastryk

8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit
OTP I can Duress Smallpox, but I can't ever win the race. LL

0-6

---

Ebon Stronghold comes into play tapped, so you can play Cat and Oven before I can Smallpox, which I believe means you win when you are on the play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa

8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit


11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit Whoever goes first loses due to the round rule. LW

---

Can’t you win otp by just playing ebon stronghold and then valley (don’t cast anything)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa

Ebon Stronghold comes into play tapped, so you can play Cat and Oven before I can Smallpox, which I believe means you win when you are on the play.

---

That makes sense to me. Will update.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Can’t you win otp by just playing ebon stronghold and then valley (don’t cast anything)

---

Yeah, I momentarily forgot Valley wouldn't just die if I played it before FTW cast Pox.

For any Cat+Oven scenario where Cat has to be on blocking duty, I can always block with the Cat and sacrifice it to Oven on my opponent's turn, and then swap the Food for the Cat on my turn, triggering the lifeloss to prevent the round rule. I think that means my match against RoosterCocoa is actually 6-0 for me, unless I'm missing something. Tentatively putting that into the sheet.

FTW, you're right - missed the Undying Evil / Grief combination. I gotta get more sleep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Can’t you win otp by just playing ebon stronghold and then valley (don’t cast anything)

---

I had myself winning that line by casting Ritual into Nether Spirit, forcing Rooster to Smallpox to make a defending Spirit while Smallpox must kill the Valley (If Rooster doesn't expose Valley, I don't play Spirit). Then the Nether Spirits stare and the round rule kills Rooster first.
However I just realized that Rooster can also hardcast Nether Spirit, keeping Sheltered Valley, then it races me.

LL 0-6

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alphastryk

For any Cat+Oven scenario where Cat has to be on blocking duty, I can always block with the Cat and sacrifice it to Oven on my opponent's turn, and then swap the Food for the Cat on my turn, triggering the lifeloss to prevent the round rule. I think that means my match against RoosterCocoa is actually 6-0 for me, unless I'm missing something. Tentatively putting that into the sheet.

---

Yeah, you're right. For some reason I was treating Cat like it did damage when it died, not on etb.

maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs

1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field
I play Sanctum on my turn 2, and then I can Maze Inkmoth forever. Sanctum gets around Energy Field, and if you ever play Sleeper then I cast Smallpox to get rid of it. 6-0

2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity
OTP I Smallpox on turn 2 and keep Maze to blank Nether Spirit. Taking the 1 damage from Smallpox lets me avoid the Antagonism trigger once, winning me the race. OTD you get to Smallpox first, and I need both my lands to do anything. I can sit there and hold all my cards to play around it, but you can just wait until we're both at 2 from the round rule, then cast Smallpox to win. 3-3

3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
Pretty straightforward lines but I need to check the math. Math below. 3-3

4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
I can't race this and Smallpox doesn't take enough of your cards to stop you. 0-6

5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
Playing Urborg over a Swamp seems alarmingly loose, haha. Not sure if Duress taking Smallpox or my Shrine is better, so I need to explore both options. When I'm OTP if you Duress Shrine, then I Smallpox immediately and win the race. If you Duress Smallpox, I play my Shrine, then you play Cauldron Familiar. Then we both stay alive forever while Maze stops your cat from getting in extra damage. OTD you can Duress my Shrine, I play Maze (we're both at 18), then you play Familiar (17-19). I have to play Smallpox, but then it's 16 to 18, so I die just before you. 1-4

6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger
Smallpox keeps your lands from doing their thing, and Maze can blank Messenger forever. You can get some hits in early, but I should stabilize before I die with a Shrine in play and Smallpox you out of the game. 6-0

7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar
OTP I play Maze (18-20), you play Familiar (17-21). If I Smallpox, we both get shut out but I lose the race to the round rule. If I Shrine first, then you can set up your engine and I'm behind in the race again. 0-6

8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit
OTP I can play my Shrine before you can Smallpox me, then Maze stops Nether and my Shrine races Valley. OTD you can Smallpox first, which I can't beat. 3-3

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon
Gotta be honest, I forgot that Grief ever actually comes into play when you use the Unmask mode (I was thinking it was Channel, not Evoke), so I didn't see this coming at all. Amazingly, you have no way of putting more than 1 creature into play at a time, so Maze should do some work. OTP I play Maze, then you need to make me discard Sanctum, so you Evoke Grief with Undying Evil to make me discard both my Spells. That puts us both at 18, so I lose first. OTD is basically the same, but you get hit by the round rule first, so you lose that one. 3-3

10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim
You always have Daze ready for either of my spells, and Sea's Claim stops me from casting a second one. Bogle can't be Mazed. 0-6

11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit
Pox always gets 2 of my cards (either from hand or the first land I play). I can Maze Nether forever but since you got to Pox, you'll be ahead in life. 0-6

12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress
See alphastrik. 1-4

13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
I have enough time to set up Sanctum before Smallpox, and then you can't do anything. 6-0

14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs
This is me :]

15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
This is quite fast and I can't beat it. 0-6

16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley
OTP If I Smallpox on turn 2, I lose the race to Valley by itself, so I have to play Sanctum first. That lets you play your own Sanctum, and we both live forever. OTD isn't much different. You gain twice as much life as me, but we never die. 2-2

17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth
Same as mattamort. 0-6

18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated
Smallpox is enough. 6-0

vs Reeplcheep
OTP
T1: Maze (m=18)/ Dump everything (Maze Vengevine)(R=18)
T2: Shrine (m=16) / Attack (m=10)
T3: Shrine trigger, Smallpox, sac Rootwalla (m=10, R=16) / Attack (m=5)
T4: Shrine trigger (m=6, R=15) / Attack, Maze Vengevine (m=5)
I Maze Vengevine every turn and only get hit for 1 from Rootwalla, and I gain 1 back from my Shrine every turn, so I stay alive forever while you slowly die. W
OTD
T1: Dump everything (m=16) / Maze (m=14)
T2: Attack, Maze Vengevine (m=12) / Urborg, Shrine (m=10)
T3: Attack (m=4)
If I Smallpox then I die to attacks next turn. If I hold back to Maze Vengevine then the 2 Rootwallas kill me faster than my Shrine kills you. L

6+3+3+0+1+6+0+3+3+0+0+1+6+0+2+0+6 = 40

Honestly I had no idea what to play this round. I thought Sheltered Valley would make some appearances, and maybe some Nether Spirits, but other than that I was totally in the dark. Not great! Oh well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maxx!

5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven
Playing Urborg over a Swamp seems alarmingly loose, haha. Not sure if Duress taking Smallpox or my Shrine is better, so I need to explore both options. When I'm OTP if you Duress Shrine, then I Smallpox immediately and win the race. If you Duress Smallpox, I play my Shrine, then you play Cauldron Familiar. Then we both stay alive forever while Maze stops your cat from getting in extra damage. OTD you can Duress my Shrine, I play Maze (we're both at 18), then you play Familiar (17-19). I have to play Smallpox, but then it's 16 to 18, so I die just before you. 1-4

---

I couldn't find a reason anyone would play nonbasic hate this round, and its fun to try to get random lands banned. And who knows then removing First Strike might matter! :wink:

Asthereal scores for round 6:

1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field <-me
2. dte: Ebon stronghold, Nether Spirit, Smallpox, Leyline of sanctity LL
3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine WL
4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival LL
5. alphastryk: Urborg, Duress, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven LL
6. shiftyhomunculus: Snow-Covered Mountain, Keldon Megaliths, Frostwalk Bastion, Village Messenger WW
7. H: Swamp, Witch's Oven, Witch's Oven, Cauldron Familiar LL
8. RoosterCocoa: Ebon Stronghold, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Nether Spirit LL
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Grief, Undying Evil, Vampire of the Dire Moon LL
10. PJim: Island, Slippery Bogle, Daze, Sea's Claim LL
11. FTW: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit LL
12. silkster: Swamp, Cauldron Familiar, Witch's Oven, Duress LL
13. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Mishra's Factory, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix LL
14. maxx!: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Smallpox, Sanctum of Stone Fangs LL
15. mattamort: Chancellor of the forge, Leyline of the Meek, Great Furnace, Kuldotha rebirth WL
16. Serguei: Underground Sea;Sanctum of Stone Fangs;Energy Field;Sheltered Valley LL
17. Tylert: Leyline of the meek, Chancellor of the forge, Great furnace, Kuldotha rebirth WL
18. jhhdk: Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Tower, Karn Liberated LL

Total: 15 points


I need to start spending some actual time on my decks. Submitting the correct Nexus, Blinkmoth Nexus, would have gained me a ton more points.
Though I did completely misread the meta, not expecting all those Pox and Smallpox decks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asthereal

Asthereal scores for round 6:

1. Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field <-me

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asthereal

3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine WW

---

Reeplcheep lists ​ ​ ​ “ ​ LL ? ​ “ ​ ​ ​ for this, but it seems to me that Reeplcheep gets at least one win here.




OTP Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
OTD Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field



T1: ​ ​ ​ Reeplcheep goes off and attacks for 4. ​ [R=20,A=16]

T1:
Asthereal plays a land and possibly Sleeper Agent.
Inkmoth Nexus can’t attack this turn, both due to summoning sickness
and because the only way to get mana for it would require tapping it.
Asthereal loses 2 life to the round rule. ​ [R=20,A=14]


T2:
If Reeplcheep got Sleeper Agent, then Reeplcheep takes 2 damage from it.
Reeplcheep attacks with everything, for 6 or 9 depending on whether Reeplcheep got Sleeper Agent.
Inkmoth Nexus can’t block, since the only way to get mana for it would require tapping it.
[ ​ ​ ​ R >= 18 ​ , ​ A <= 8 ​ ​ ​ ]

Inkmoth Nexus doesn’t cause loss of life, Sleeper Agent only deals damage
during Reeplcheep’s turns, and Energy Field doesn’t stop the round rule,
so Asthereal would lose to the round rule in Asthereal’s T5 end step.
Inkmoth Nexus can’t sufficiently poison Reeplcheep before then,
and Reeplcheep only loses 12 life before then, so Asthereal loses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

3. Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine

I expected a bunch of pox or smallpox so I played the anti-discard aggro deck. The reach also helps my decks a bunch.
With the help of the round rule I kill a goldfish t3 OTP to beat the more Durdley decks.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

4. Phasmoid: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
I goldfish on t3 WW 6-0

---

I see that you have not yet updated your results-post, even though

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

You are correct that I can’t play around the gy hate.

---

.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phasmoid

Reeplcheep lists ​ ​ ​ “ ​ LL ? ​ “ ​ ​ ​ for this, but it seems to me that Reeplcheep gets at least one win here.




OTP Reeplcheep: Bazaar of Baghdad, Basking Rootwalla, Basking Rootwalla, Vengevine
OTD Asthereal (TO): Underground Sea, Inkmoth Nexus, Sleeper Agent, Energy Field



T1: ​ ​ ​ Reeplcheep goes off and attacks for 4. ​ [R=20,A=16]

T1:
Asthereal plays a land and possibly Sleeper Agent.
Inkmoth Nexus can’t attack this turn, both due to summoning sickness
and because the only way to get mana for it would require tapping it.
Asthereal loses 2 life to the round rule. ​ [R=20,A=14]


T2:
If Reeplcheep got Sleeper Agent, then Reeplcheep takes 2 damage from it.
Reeplcheep attacks with everything, for 6 or 9 depending on whether Reeplcheep got Sleeper Agent.
Inkmoth Nexus can’t block, since the only way to get mana for it would require tapping it.
[ ​ ​ ​ R >= 18 ​ , ​ A <= 8 ​ ​ ​ ]

Inkmoth Nexus doesn’t cause loss of life, Sleeper Agent only deals damage
during Reeplcheep’s turns, and Energy Field doesn’t stop the round rule,
so Asthereal would lose to the round rule in Asthereal’s T5 end step.
Inkmoth Nexus can’t sufficiently poison Reeplcheep before then,
and Reeplcheep only loses 12 life before then, so Asthereal loses.

---

I hadn't done the math. Just copied the results from most of my opponents. Busy weekend.
Let's have a look at OTP:

A: Sea, Agent, A=18
R: R=18, combo, attack with Vine and Agent, A=11
A: Energy Field, A=9
R: R=14
A: A=7
R: R=10
A: A=5
R: R=6
A: A=3
R: R=2
A: A=1
R: R=dieded

So looks like it's 3-3.

Not all results are in yet, and I manually calculated a few disagreements from the sheet, but this should be more or less correct.

Standings for round 6:
1. GoblinSmashmaster: 84 - 4,9
2. mattamort: 78 - 4,6
2. Tylert: 78 - 4,6
4. Phasmoid: 63 - 3,7
4. FTW: 63 - 3,7
6. Reeplcheep: 60 - 3,5
6. PJim: 60 - 3,5
8. alphastryk: 54 - 3,2
8. silkster: 54 - 3,2
10. RoosterCocoa: 46 - 2,7
11. H: 45 - 2,6
12. Serguei: 43 - 2,5
13. dte: 42 - 2,5
14. maxx!: 40 - 2,4
15. jhhdk: 27 - 1,6
16. shiftyhomunculus: 24 - 1,4
17. Wrath of Pie: 23 - 1,4
18. Asthereal (TO): 15 - 0,9

Which leads to these bannings, which look safe to lock in for next round:
Chancellor of the forge
Great Furnace
Grief
Kuldotha rebirth
Leyline of the Meek
Undying Evil
Vampire of the Dire Moon

Our season standings look as follows:
1. Tylert: 24,7
2. Serguei: 22,7
3. GoblinSmashmaster: 20,7
4. dte: 20,5
5. mattamort: 20,5
6. silkster: 20,4
7. FTW: 20,4
8. maxx!: 18,3
9. PJim: 17,8
10. alphastryk: 16,3
11. RoosterCocoa: 14,8
12. Reeplcheep: 14,3
13. Wrath of Pie: 13,1
14. jhhdk: 10,1
15. Asthereal (TO): 8,9
16. Phasmoid: 7,9
17. H: 7,4
18. shiftyhomunculus: 3,1

So yeah, I'm on my way down. Tylert has managed to increate his lead, but the season is still long.

Note: Reep has already sent me a deck for next round. If you like, you can send me a new one that I can't meta against. :wink:
Second note: Modern Horizons 2 has officially released and become tourney legal on the 26th, so that's also legal for us now, as long as the cards haven't gotten banned yet, somehow. So don't forget to check those cards.


ROUND 7 OF SEASON 10: DEVIANT LEGACY BANNATHON has started.

This round we play Magical Metal: When an artifact enters the battlefield, its controller may add one mana of the color of his or her choice to their mana pool. (The controller of the artifact that triggers this ability is considered to be the controller of the trigger itself.)

I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 7, so you can start sending me your decks.

DEADLINE: Wednesday the 30th of June at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Swamp, Dauthi Slayer, Black Knight.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S10R07 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

Happy deck building! :smile: