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I was just suggesting things for the SB. Like i knew i didn't need Pyroclasm exactly but it helped when needed. I could see cutting my grave hate down just a little, but i would even hate to do that too. The combo played i play with are cutting white and Chants all together so perhaps instant speed spells wouldn't be that bad anymore. But then again, i play against some PRETTY OPINIONATED combo players *cough Pulp_Fiction*:laugh:
Basilisk Collar is actually pretty good against Reanimator. I've been including it in my CounterTop control deck, which plays Trinket Mages.
Path to Exile (two-for-one), any animal and a burn spell (two-for-one), your Tarmogoyf and a burn spell (trading your burn spell for a Tarmogoyf). These situations all seem fine, especially at the time when Tarmogoyf can battle (past turn three generally). Obviously it sucks if their Tarmogoyf stops all the beats, but that is why Zoo runs cards other than creatures. Between Sylvan Library and Horizon Canopy, some card disadvantage is never a problem (from killing the Tarmogoyf). This is why Zoo was able to thrive at a time Counterbalance was running rampant. The best plan for them now is to turn three a Progenitus, which sometimes still does not win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch
Congrats on going 3-2 in a hostile environment. I had my zoo deck all set up but decided not to play as I didnt think I had much of a prayer in such a combo heavy field. I was also disheartened after my finish on saturday where I finally felt like i played well and had the deck tuned right for the meta but still only managed 1-3.
-JP
If you're one of those persons who cringes at a Domain Zoo list, I suggest you skip this post entirely, or explain why Naya Zoo is strictly better, as my search attempt failed:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Dark Confidant
4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Tribal Flames
2 Vindicate
3 Wasteland
4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Scrublands
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
Dark Confidant is just teh nuts. Vindicate just plows through random stupid stuff and Tribal Flames at 4 or 5 can deal with things that Lightning Bolt can't (Rhox War Monk, Tombstalker).
But mostly, you're splashing black for Bob and Vindicate. Granted, you lose some speed compared to the WRG version, but it comes with added consistency and unfair card advantage.
Comments? Will this work? (As this is mostly a draft in my head right now.)
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesarius
I am not really a fan of equipments in Zoo. I might playtest it for chrisake but Jitte for example costs 2 to cast and 2 to equip which in my opinion is slow... Not to mention the deck is so much susceptible to Wasteland.
I'm kinda agreeing with everything that's been said. If you're staring down a Goyf, having a Path would be far better than having a Jitte (even a Wing Shards wouldn't be bad). I don't feel like it does that much in any specific matchup that wouldn't be done better by other cards. In fact, part of the reason I felt like i was running it was to destroy opposing Jittes.
I looked back through the thread and I think a couple people posted lists with Shards in them...could those people offer some insight?
But i run them together, and everyone else suggested Gaddock Teeg, which doesn't do jack-shit when it comes to staring down a Goyf. It's like I'm replacing cards. It's good but i wouldn't run it if you're all Fireblast/Steppe Lynx oriented.
I can't get behind Wasteland in Domain Zoo. If Vindicate is so good, why only 2? Seems kinda random/janky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesarius
While I think it needs some tuning, I also think it can be pretty powerful. I used to run a similar list right around the time of the last CaNGD contest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesarius
Thoughts: I don't think Wasteland belongs in here, although if you can make it work, more power to you. Evasive Action can be pretty good out of the board (although it requires a little more blue, and the heavier blue you get, the less you're running a Zoo deck that you can discuss in this thread ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesarius
I dont think i would go into domain but think my self of a dark zoo version, I like the idee of using bob, Vindicate and Tidehollow Sculler from Black. Especially if combo decks gets more popular now, storm, reanimator, polymorth etc.
I wouldn't say I'm a fan of Dark Zoo or Domain Zoo, but I'm a fan of experimenting with it. Hope you get some good results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesarius
Well, with our own Goyfs, Pridemage for exalted, Lavamancer, and tons of burn and removal, I don't think an opposing Goyf is as scary as when your opponent drops a Natural Order. While it is true Teeg does little in our aggro matchups, our aggro matchups are generally good enough so that we can afford to use some space to protect ourselves from scarier things. My opinion anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch
I forgot to add to that post something. I added it to my earlier post. Dealing with a Goyf that an opposing BLUE MAGE has cast is a daunting task. And a 2 of that doesn't come down before you get combo-ed off on doesn't seem that good in my opinion. Combo players in my area can play around dumb hate bears.
Teeg isn't really there just for combo but I'm sure you're well aware of all the other things it stops. Point is, I think Teeg fills an overall better role in the deck than Jitte. While this is only true in certain metagames, 2 Teeg main also frees up a couple slots in the side for things like combo hate or something (though I'm generally against combo hate since it's never going to be a positive match up anyway and I'd rather use cards than are useful in multiple matchups).
I pretty much never have any problems with opposite Tarmogoyfs, however the creature that do cause problems Rhox War Monk.
Have been thinking of teching the zoo a bit, Noble Hierarch, Magus of the Moon, Aven Mindcensor, Stoneforge Packages and/or Mogg Fanatic/Ranger of Eos/ Proclamation of Rebirth+other 1cc's.
Considering playing Mogg Fanatics again. Adds the last damage needed to take down Rhoxes and goyfs, Kills opponets Grim Lavamancers, Dark Confidants, faerie packages, Noble Hierarch etc, and its helpful against the dredge matchups.
Testing dark zoo with Thoughtseize, Dark Confidant, Vindicate main and Diabolic Edics in the board.
See, now we agree on something:smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by supachai
Against War Monks, I really like Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast. They're also quite good against a lot of other things (like Teeg).
Haha. Good to know, good to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch
The player who won our local tourney was playing Zoo but maindecked 2 Dolmen Gate in the deck to great success. He showed me his list after and we talked about it for quite some length.
Whenever he casts it, he got to attack with impunity and focus all of his burn on the opponents head, regardless of how big his opponents blockers may be. The idea made a lot of sense to me.
It seems to me that players often rely on Tarmogoyfs and other big blockers to buy time against Zoo and force two for one trades. Dolmen Gate lets Zoo ignore these blockers, and even stuff like Iona, and continue to attack without hesistation. He told me he plays it instead of 2 of his Path to Exiles, and if opponents end up siding in artifact/enchantment destruction as a result, that always helps him, since those cards are dead against the other 58 cards in his deck.
What do you guys think? Does the idea have merit.
Also he played 4 Reckless Abandon and 2 Fireblast in the deck. He said, they make his deck a full turn faster. He also played Sulfuric Vortex in the side and swore by the card.
And lastly, he was testing 2 Searing Blaze in place of 2 Lightning Helix. What do you guys think of these ideas?
I think all of them seem really solid and make sense to me.
From memory, I think his list was...
12 Fetchland
9 Dual Land
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Reckless Abandon
2 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix
2 Fireblast
2 Path to Exile
2 Dolmen Gate
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Woolly Thoctar
It looked a lot faster than the typical Zoo list.