Re: All B/R update speculation.
I'm inclined to think that Show and Tell will be banned eventually if Wizards keeps printing new game-breaking fatties. Very few serious players played Show and Tell before Progenitus and Emrakul were printed. Now with Griselbrand, the power of Show and Tell has increased significantly again.
Show and Tell is similar to Survival of the Fittest in that the power level of both spells are related to the quality of the creatures that you can use with them. The printing of Vengevine put Survival over the top and led to its banning. If Show and Tell gets its own fatty version of "Vengevine," it will likely be banned as well. Some feel that this has already happened with the printing of Griselbrand. Or perhaps, Griselbrand will be fine and a future card will be the one that puts Show and Tell into a position to be banned.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
You are completely wrong as to why Survival was banned. It was a tutor. Wizards said as much. Show and Tell is an enabler and is sort of like a stronger ritual effect. Is it stong? Yes. Should it be banned? Not even close. People have to understand that not every deck is viable to win an event. I wish Erhnam Djinn was good. He isn't but you dont see me whining about it. In terms of pure power Show and Tell is below LED. If people stopped complainng and actually played some magic they would see the format is great right now. Multiple archetypes are viable. There will always be a perceiveD best deck. Right now Sneak and Show is it. But instead of people sitting down, thinking, and testing to beat it they complain hoping it will get banned so they don't have to actually have to test ideas out. I'm sorry but reading these threads just pisses me off.
Seth
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sroncor1
You are completely wrong as to why Survival was banned. It was a tutor.
Entomb is a tutor and it got unbanned. So clearly that wasn't the sole reason. Maybe it had to do with the fact that you only had to cast that single spell to win, and it was very easy to find ways out of every form of hate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sroncor1
If people stopped complaining and actually played some magic they would see the format is great right now. Multiple archetypes are viable.
The format is shit and it has been getting shittier each year. This format has become "junk food", and you have the right to enjoy eating solely junk food, but if the cook doesn't change the menu for something more healthy soon, the customers will die of a heart attack.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DrJones
The format is shit and it has been since its inception.
I agree MDJones. I mean Mana Drain into N. Disk, really? Four flavors of Thresh in the DTB section, really? Five color combo decks in a format with Wasteland, really? Nourishing Lich hated out of the format and off of the boards, really?
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DrJones
The format is shit and it has been getting shittier each year. This format has become "junk food", and you have the right to enjoy eating solely junk food, but if the cook doesn't change the menu for something more healthy soon, the customers will die of a heart attack.
Just because you are terrible at the format doesn't mean it is garbage. The format is still as wide open as it ever was with plenty of decks that absolutely crush Show/Tell while still being competitive vs. the rest of the format. Go play Modern if you want a salad, really I don't know why you are still here. Every idea you put forward basically would bring Legacy closer to Modern, why not just cut out the middle man and go play Modern.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
@dontbiteitholmes: I'll agree to disagree. I'm in no way implying that I'm right.:smile:
However, I also like the idea of WotC trying to unban more cards. Do you think it's more fun to have access to more cards in a Eternal format at the risk of screwing up the meta for a couple months?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Waikiki
Nothing wrong with SnT to be a pillar.
If you ban SnT then Maverick will be #1 again and we just get complaints about another card.
- The problem with Show and Tell is that it suffers many of the same problems that Survival of the Fittest did: as new sets come out with new creatures, it gets stronger and stronger in such a way that it's exponential. SotF power level back in 1994 is much different than it is in 2010.
It's only a matter of time before Show and Tell gets its Vengevine. The question is whether Show and Tell is broken enough to ban now. While I don't think it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see it banned in the future.
The other issue is the fact that different Show and Tell decks have multiple avenues of attack. Humility stops the creature attacks but does nothing to the Hive Mind plan. Eon Hub stops Hivemind but is worthless against giant floating tentacle monsters of doom.
I think eventually a card is going to be printed that, if resolved, will effectively end the game or end the game to an extent that the opposing player is at such a disadvantage that if they didn't devote their sideboard to the SnS matchup, they will lose for sure. When this happens, Show and Tell will be banned.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sroncor1
You are completely wrong as to why Survival was banned. It was a tutor. Wizards said as much. Show and Tell is an enabler and is sort of like a stronger ritual effect. Is it stong? Yes. Should it be banned? Not even close. People have to understand that not every deck is viable to win an event. I wish Erhnam Djinn was good. He isn't but you dont see me whining about it. In terms of pure power Show and Tell is below LED. If people stopped complainng and actually played some magic they would see the format is great right now. Multiple archetypes are viable. There will always be a perceiveD best deck. Right now Sneak and Show is it. But instead of people sitting down, thinking, and testing to beat it they complain hoping it will get banned so they don't have to actually have to test ideas out. I'm sorry but reading these threads just pisses me off.Seth
I can't tell if you are trolling or not. Survival wasn't banned because it was a tutor. There are lots of legal tutors. It was banned because, as DragoFireheart explains, its power level became too high after the printing of Vengevine. The same could happen to Show and Tell. It doesn't matter if it is an enabler or a tutor.
I am actually not in favor of banning Show and Tell right now. Sneaky Tell is actually one of my favorite decks. People who want to banned now (in June) are really jumping the gun. I want to see it put up six months of results (or at least three) before considering the ban hammer.
I am not sure if Griselbrand makes Show and Tell too powerful. I suspect that it doesn't, but I could be wrong. Let's watch and see what happens in the format over the next few months.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
I don't see how the format is shitty. What deck do you want to play that you can not? There are at least 4 tier one strategies along with nearly ten other decks that can do well on any given day. Nothing is degenerate right now. If anything more cards should come off the banned list.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sroncor1
I don't see how the format is shitty. What deck do you want to play that you can not? There are at least 4 tier one strategies along with nearly ten other decks that can do well on any given day. Nothing is degenerate right now. If anything more cards should come off the banned list.
Dr. Jones is a certified troll with many years of pratice under its belt, ignore him and you'll live healtier.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gheizen64
Dr. Jones is a certified troll with many years of pratice under its belt, ignore him and you'll live healtier.
Haha. Certified!!
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Brainstorm needs to go.
Also blue.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
majikal
That deck list looks absolutely hilarious. Why the lack of a 4CMC cascade spell?
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DragoFireheart
That deck list looks absolutely hilarious. Why the lack of a 4CMC cascade spell?
Needs moar 4CMC cascade spells. Also, deck needs Lotus Petals to ensure a turn one win.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joemauer
Needs moar 4CMC cascade spells. Also, deck needs Lotus Petals to ensure a turn one win.
Nah, I get why now he has neither:
4CMC cascade spell would hit the guides. Fizzle out.
Having lotus petal == fizzle out if it gets hit.
He either wants to cast a Show and Tell by turn 1-3, or cast a cascade spell for Hypergenesis. Brilliant really. I think he should take out the Violent Outburst for Ardent Plea though to up his blue-spell count.
Edit: NVM, his blue count is fine.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DragoFireheart
Nah, I get why now he has neither:
4CMC cascade spell would hit the guides. Fizzle out.
Having lotus petal == fizzle out if it gets hit.
He either wants to cast a Show and Tell by turn 1-3, or cast a cascade spell for Hypergenesis. Brilliant really.
Congratulations on realizing that.
Like Hypergenesis is new...just another deck that got significantly better due to Griselbrand.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joemauer
Needs moar 4CMC cascade spells. Also, deck needs Lotus Petals to ensure a turn one win.
The deck wouldn't work the way they want it to if it had 4CMC cascade spells and petals. It wants to cascade into Hypergenesis, not one of the spirit guides or a Lotus Petal.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
H3llsp4wn
Congratulations on realizing that.
Like Hypergenesis is new...just another deck that got significantly better due to Griselbrand.
But it's Hypergenesis and Show and Tell. The entire deck is essentially Show and Tells with some guides to mana accel the spells out.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DragoFireheart
But it's Hypergenesis and Show and Tell. The entire deck is essentially Show and Tells with some guides to mana accel the spells out.
There are 8 cascade spells and Akroma's Memorial, seems like more of a Hypergenesis deck. This deck definitely survives without SnT. I don't see how this would be any different than most be people's complaints. "That deck has 12 must counter cascade spells or you lose etc"
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Telperion
There are 8 cascade spells and Akroma's Memorial, seems like more of a Hypergenesis deck. This deck definitely survives without SnT.
But it is much better with the SnT.
Also:
Maelstrom Wanderer
