[Deck] Zoo

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Originally Posted by Jon Stewart

The player who won our local tourney was playing Zoo but maindecked 2 Dolmen Gate in the deck to great success. He showed me his list after and we talked about it for quite some length.

Whenever he casts it, he got to attack with impunity and focus all of his burn on the opponents head, regardless of how big his opponents blockers may be. The idea made a lot of sense to me.

It seems to me that players often rely on Tarmogoyfs and other big blockers to buy time against Zoo and force two for one trades. Dolmen Gate lets Zoo ignore these blockers, and even stuff like Iona, and continue to attack without hesistation. He told me he plays it instead of 2 of his Path to Exiles, and if opponents end up siding in artifact/enchantment destruction as a result, that always helps him, since those cards are dead against the other 58 cards in his deck.

What do you guys think? Does the idea have merit.

Also he played 4 Reckless Abandon and 2 Fireblast in the deck. He said, they make his deck a full turn faster. He also played Sulfuric Vortex in the side and swore by the card.

And lastly, he was testing 2 Searing Blaze in place of 2 Lightning Helix. What do you guys think of these ideas?

I think all of them seem really solid and make sense to me.

From memory, I think his list was...

12 Fetchland
9 Dual Land

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Reckless Abandon
2 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix
2 Fireblast
2 Path to Exile
2 Dolmen Gate

4 Steppe Lynx
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Woolly Thoctar


It looked a lot faster than the typical Zoo list.

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The list looks fun, just the Woolly Thoctar I dont like and the fireblast and Gaddock in the same main list.

You don't like Thoctar? Why? A 3cc 5/4 seems solid.

Fireblast and Gaddock in the same list don't make sense. I guess it's not too big an issue, with only 3 of one and 2 of the other.

I would personally replace either Teeg or Fireblast with more burn spells.

Do you have an opinion on Dolmen Gate? I'm curious if it's just a cute trick or if you think it helps a lot against the current meta, (goblins, bant, merfolk, the gate etc).

Would the deck be better off playing more Paths instead of Dolmen Gate?

For a 3cc dropp I rather play the Knight of the Reliquary. Thoctar also dies to blue elemental blasts.

Yes, the deck would be better off with paths. Gate does not add pressure, because while you can swing with guys and not be afraid of damage, getting rid of one of their blockers is a lot more scary. Particularly in the case of a goyf vs. goyf. Path breaks the stallmate, whereas Gate does not. Really, the only situation where Gate is more useful is when you have a ton of creatures but are just afraid to swing with them because there's a big blocker that would kill one. I think this scenario does not actually happen that much, and in most cases path would probably be fine to remove their best blocker to let you through anyway. In addition, path fits our curve better, but more importantly it keeps us from dying if we don't have a creature on the board, where gate just lets you die.

In short, path is a much better option than Gate, and I would even extend the arguments here to say that many other things are much better than gate.

I've played Knights before in decks with 10-12 fetchlands. Even then, Knight of Reliquary often comes down as just a 3/3 more often than it comes down a 6/6. I would rather just take a 5/4 consistently that can attack asap and speed up the deck, than play a creature that I have to tap and pump for a turn before it becomes a 5/5.

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Originally Posted by Jon Stewart

I've played Knights before in decks with 10-12 fetchlands. Even then, Knight of Reliquary often comes down as just a 3/3 more often than it comes down a 6/6. I would rather just take a 5/4 consistently that can attack asap and speed up the deck, than play a creature that I have to tap and pump for a turn before it becomes a 5/5.

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+1

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Originally Posted by Jon Stewart

I've played Knights before in decks with 10-12 fetchlands. Even then, Knight of Reliquary often comes down as just a 3/3 more often than it comes down a 6/6. I would rather just take a 5/4 consistently that can attack asap and speed up the deck, than play a creature that I have to tap and pump for a turn before it becomes a 5/5.

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Strange mine are never that small. But my goyfs however they most of the time are just 3/4 or lower.

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Originally Posted by Jon Stewart

I've played Knights before in decks with 10-12 fetchlands. Even then, Knight of Reliquary often comes down as just a 3/3 more often than it comes down a 6/6. I would rather just take a 5/4 consistently that can attack asap and speed up the deck, than play a creature that I have to tap and pump for a turn before it becomes a 5/5.

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I've had great success with Knight, and for a number of reasons. Yes, sometimes he enters play smaller than you'd like him to be, but that's unusual in my list (I play 10 fetches, 3 horizon canopy, and 2 fireblast, which all have great synergy with Knight). Often times he's big enough to kill Goyf and live (unlike Thoctar, usually) and I've even won games because he can help fix mana issues.

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Originally Posted by Brizentine Empire

I've had great success with Knight, and for a number of reasons. Yes, sometimes he enters play smaller than you'd like him to be, but that's unusual in my list (I play 10 fetches, 3 horizon canopy, and 2 fireblast, which all have great synergy with Knight). Often times he's big enough to kill Goyf and live (unlike Thoctar, usually) and I've even won games because he can help fix mana issues.

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Same here. At the Indy 5k tournament I outraced ProBant twice because I got both knights in play and they were bigger than Progenitus!

This is a recent decklist that has done well in tournaments on MTGO going 4-0 or 3-1 a couple times. It's not mine personally, but I plan on making it and testing it out.

Lands - 19
4 Arid Mesa
4 Plateau
4 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills

Creatures - 23
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

Spells - 18
4 Chain Lightning
3 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Price of Progress

Sideboard
4 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Price of Progress
4 Pyroblast
3 Ranger of Eos
3 Tormod's Crypt

He uses Goblin Guide to increase the speed of the deck and also removes all basic lands. I'm not that big of a fan of doing this as Dragon Stompy or something else with Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon would be trouble for the deck but it's done well for him. I also like the mainboard Price of Progress since almost every top Legacy deck other than Goblins runs quite a few of them.

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Originally Posted by spree4567

This is a recent decklist that has done well in tournaments on MTGO going 4-0 or 3-1 a couple times. It's not mine personally, but I plan on making it and testing it out.

Lands - 19
4 Arid Mesa
4 Plateau
4 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills

Creatures - 23
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

Spells - 18
4 Chain Lightning
3 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Price of Progress

Sideboard
4 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Price of Progress
4 Pyroblast
3 Ranger of Eos
3 Tormod's Crypt

He uses Goblin Guide to increase the speed of the deck and also removes all basic lands. I'm not that big of a fan of doing this as Dragon Stompy or something else with Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon would be trouble for the deck but it's done well for him. I also like the mainboard Price of Progress since almost every top Legacy deck other than Goblins runs quite a few of them.

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I gotta say I take issue with 100% nonbasic land AND Price of Progress. I don't even like Steppe Lynx, but if you are gonna run 11 fetches in an aggressive list, why not include it?

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Originally Posted by spree4567

Lands - 19
4 Arid Mesa
4 Plateau
4 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills

Creatures - 23
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

Spells - 18
4 Chain Lightning
3 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Price of Progress

Sideboard
4 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Price of Progress
4 Pyroblast
3 Ranger of Eos
3 Tormod's Crypt

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Just change the mana base to be the following:
4 Arid Mesa
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

I was about to begin testing this list for GP Columbus. My thoughts are to plan against combo and graveyard a little better mainboard. With Teeg mainboard I can side in like 2 Ethersworn Canonist games 2/3 to better the match. Plus whatever other hate I have.
Just wondering what you guys think of the list as well your thoughts about GP Columbus. I think this is the next Legacy GP.

4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Helix
2 Chain Lightning
2 Sylvan Library

Just mainboard do to the fact sideboard changes.

Play 4 Lavamancers! The rest looks solid.

Is there any reason not to play Loam Lion over Kird Ape? It makes opponents BeB's and Hydroblasts weaker. And if there is no reason, has anyone thought about updated manabase taking Lions into account? Also, has anyone tried some number (two, perhaps?) of Jotun Grunts? They seem pretty solid and not that anti sinergic with Lavamancers and Goyfs.

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Originally Posted by IrishLegend

I was about to begin testing this list for GP Columbus. My thoughts are to plan against combo and graveyard a little better mainboard. With Teeg mainboard I can side in like 2 Ethersworn Canonist games 2/3 to better the match. Plus whatever other hate I have.
Just wondering what you guys think of the list as well your thoughts about GP Columbus. I think this is the next Legacy GP.

4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Helix
2 Chain Lightning
2 Sylvan Library

Just mainboard do to the fact sideboard changes.

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Only thing I would change is Nelis said. Take out a Kird Ape for a 4th Lavamancer. Lavamancer is good during most of the game while kird ape sucks late game, for most people he has a big red target on his head and they try to kill him quick.

Only other thing I can think of would be to potentially change the Kird Apes to Steppe Lynx.

I havent really tested step lynx. The only thing that worries me about him is hes a dead draw other then your opening hand. I could be wrong. I will test him this weekend. How he testing for you guys?

I dont play Lavamancer as a 4 of do to the fact I dont want him in my opening hand. Ive tested with 3 and I really like the results.

As for loam lion I really dont know what to say. But I think we have had this conversion before. Something about the mana base blah blah blah.... lol

I might swap a helix for a chain as well, as it seems the mana cost would be relevant more often than the instant speed. As for additional sideboard hate for combo, I would run 2 Cannonists and a thorn of amethyst if you can find 3 slots.

I want to try the Lame Lion over Kird Ape. There is so much red hate that he simply gets around. I have also tried Step Lynx and wasn't impressed. He was strong out of the gates, but soon was a 0/1 just sitting there taunting me. I was really wishing he was an ape (or Lion). It seems like the mana base is pretty supportive of the Loam Lion already. Things have been getting more g/w lately with KoR and such.

I thought about swapping a helix for a chain but the damage off the fetchs hurt, so helix really helps out there. As for loam lion Ill test him but I dont like the fact of fetching for a savannah first turn when most of are removal is red.