buttomline must be that we need 3 RIP in SB, and vs heavy GY plays we bring in a couple of e-tutors.
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buttomline must be that we need 3 RIP in SB, and vs heavy GY plays we bring in a couple of e-tutors.
Even with tutors I would still have 3 RIP in my SB at least.
SO do i, and i would not allways bring RiP AND ET in together, depending on the matchup.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by attemunden
I do believe that I am one of the very few, if not only one who DOESN'T play an Enlightened Tutor board...
Main:
4 Æther Vial
3 Flickerwisp
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Mangara of Corondor
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Stonforge Mystic
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 flex spots that change according to what I think will help in the meta. Currently Ethersworn Canonist, was previous Burrenton Forge-Tender
4 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
9 Plains
Side:
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Goldmeadow Harrier
3 Jotün Grunt
3 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Phyrexian Revoker
I'm sure that some here will not like my list, and that's perfectly fine. I will ask however that if you do make a negative comment on it, that you back up your opinion with a logical statement why you either like or dislike my choices and I will explain why I've made those specific ones that are brought into civilized conversation.
Why not Kor Firewalker over the Forge-Tender?
The forge-tender can prevent all damage from a red source, doesn't target, works on Progenitus and recurs with SoLaS.
It can also remove Bridge from Beyond in the dredge matchup.
@Penguinizer
How is arbiter working for you ? don't you find your current deck slow and looses to the current card advantage and discards engines of the current decks.
Is RIP that good right now over other forms of GY hate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Local dredge players are telling me that RIP is overrated and I'd be better off playing other stuff like Relic or Extraction...
look at it this way, unless they have a hard counter to answer Rest in Peace then the instant you play it, they are losing their entire graveyard. So if you play it at the correct time then they will lose 1 or more bridge's, 1 or more ichorid's, and any number of their dredger's. That is a devastating loss to a dredge deck. Even if they have a means of getting it off the field with something like a hard cast Nature's Claim they have still lost a large chunk of their engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Assuming that they don't have a Nature's Claim and instead hit you with a bounce spell, they didn't stop you from playing it again unless they have a discard spell on hand to cast against you.
In fact the only real advantage that Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt have is that they operate at instant speed, where as Rest in Peace operates at Sorcery Speed. As for Surgical Extraction, while Extirpate effects are nice and all, I am personally not an avid fan of playing them as my catch all answers to Dredge, Reanimator, and a whole smorgus board of other graveyard based decks for the simple fact that they are not catch all answers to those decks and because those decks can generally play around them if they have to.
RIP is so OP that it has versatility where you would not ordinarily expect it to. Dredge has dedicated anti-hate cards for RIP, Relic, etc. Their plan is to take it out and go off immediately. Sure, that may work I guess. But RIP's biggest advantage is that it can come in against stuff like BUG, Nic Fit, RUG, UR Delver, etc and it is still an effective hoser against decks that historically could not be effectively graveyard hated. And these decks can't just bounce it and win. They either have to spend a card on it or try to play around it somehow. Playing around it is exactly what D+T wants. It is how the deck wins. So now you are talking about spending a card on it. Abrupt Decay is their best bet, but they still get 2-1'd because all their GY stuff got set back to turn 1 while D+T was not set back at all.
RIP is even a strong hate card against ANT. It's that good.
Leonin Arbiter? I think I stopped running that build since Survival was banned. It was a niche hate card against the meta at the time. You probably meant to ask Fry I assume.Quote:
Originally Posted by _erbs_
Does abrupt decay tries to go to the graveyard before the resolution of it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
My guess was that when BUG plays Abrupt Decay on RIP, it resolves, RIP goes to the graveyard, and abrupt decay too and there are now 2 cards in the grave making Goyf a 2/3.
According to the Gatherer Card Rulings ( http://magiccards.info/rtr/en/18.html ):Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
"10/1/2012: If Rest in Peace is destroyed by a spell, Rest in Peace will be exiled and then the spell will be put into its owner’s graveyard."
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTylerGalt
Ok thanks. A 1/2 goyf is not scary :p And we can still use flickerwhisp with vial to sve it :p
Also, I did not mean to imply that RIP was weak against Dredge. Dredge's best bet is to take D+T out before turn 2. If RIP is involved, Dredge is either holding the Nature's Claim right then and there and actually has the mana (probably the biggest factor here) or D+T will be well into a groove before Dredge can recover. It is not in any way similar to Goblins plopping down a Crypt or BUG Extirpating Bridges where the hate is dealt with and you go about recovering to win anyway. D+T disrupts every turn in a variety of ways, so it often beats Dredge game 1, before the extra hate comes in. RIP just happens to be a super strong addition.
@Penguinizer
Yeah i meant to ask Fry.
@RiP
I've been running 2 RiPs since is whats printed replaced the 2 jotun slots for them. With the meta changes are you going to use RiP main if so how many ?. Mirran Crusader is performing well at the moment aswell, given the current meta what changes have you guys made.
As for me i run the following setup:
lands [23]
artifacts [7]
4 vial
1 sofi
1 jitte
1 bskull
spells [4]
4 stp
creatures [26]
4 mor
4 sfm
4 thalia
3 revoker
3 serra avenger
3 mirran sader
3 flickerwisp
2 mangara
I used to run rip's main but i felt mirran had a greater impact over it.
And oh i just want to ask if you guys have tried the old DT route in where it used to have 12 t1 drops, 4 mor 4 savannah lions 4 vials. i tried running dryad militant for awhile and surprisingly it was good, the damage it gave was enough so your other threats can finish off your opponents. but at times when your 4 aggressive drops don't come on turn 1 they are just meh... on mid to late game thus i reverted back to the current conventional list. If somehow it could be mesh somehow or maybe cursed scroll being part of the deck or something.
@_erbs_
I find that the Arbiter hurts many decks, think about how many decks search the library by fetch lands, GSZ, Mystics, and other tutors such as KoTR, Infenal Tutor, Merchant Scroll, Land Grant, etc.
I'm perfectly happy to play a set of Arbiters and only slow down 3 of my 75 cards for sowing down many more of my opponents. Also it's always fun to respond with vialing in arbiter to a fetch... I love doing that one.
The Arbiter gets better with the other mana taxers of Wasteland, Port, and Thalia.
Its true that arbiter is strong during early turns, but i feel it looses its value as the game prolongs. Drawing him mid to late game i feel is like drawing a vanilla 2/2 creature, as compared to other creatures which provides solid contribution no matter what part of the game you draw them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fry
Its like drawing thalia mid to late, i know having another extra mana tax creature is great, but how consistent can you do it. The meta right now i feel is really built on mid to late games so taxing your opponent early while you can't put pressure on them aswell is kinda useless don't you think. Arbiter is a weak body that can't attack with out equips or mother of runes to back it up.
Thats why i asked if you guys had experimented on adding another 1 drop in the form of dryad militant or something just to give pressure early on. Bec. i feel late game DT isn't as powerful as compared to other decks out there at the moment.
I fully agree with this statement. Since Noble Hierarch, and even more now with Deathrite Shaman, it is not easy to disrupt opponents manabase in the early game, and if both your and your opponent's games progress "normally", your opponent will have very good chances of overwhelm you. Of course, this deck has many other tools besides the mana denial plan, but without card selection or advantage, you don't always have the tools you want at the right time.Quote:
Originally Posted by _erbs_
I know this is not something new and I don't mean this deck is bad. I've actually won some tournaments with it in the past. I think, however, that the current "most accepted" build is not well-positioned in the metagame, and new tools and strategies must be tested.