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I assume you mean primarily for the storm matchup? I don't know how much better it is than something like Thorn, if at all. They're going to need to answer either before they can combo off, and Thorn does a better job of disrupting their cantrips.Quote:
Originally Posted by finksfinksfinks
Recruiter tutors for Canonist... Guessing that's the reason for the inclusion over Thorn.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper
Canonist is a great card, and being tutorable by Recruiter is definitely relevant. But the person I was responding to was asking about Damping Sphere for Imperial Painter, and I was asking why you would play it over Thorn. (They are both worse than Canonist.)Quote:
Originally Posted by vieko
Ah yes! That makes more sense @jasper.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper
Is the new Karn going to see play here as well? Been following the dragon stompy list recently, but more incline to play painter deck hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by jasper
I was judging GP Birmingham this weekend and noticed some Painter decks running the new Karn. Anyone with the feedback of how good the cards is for us?
Been dying to play this deck for a long time and finally was able to put a list together.
It's some number of whatever is quoted a couple of posts up.
Not being able to win because I couldn't draw into a Grindstone felt pretty lousy. Do we just mull until we have Grindstone in our opening hand? Played two rounds only (got a bye the first time I brought the deck out :-( ). 2 Welders.
I don't want to go into White or Blue. What about Gamble?
Thanks.
I think there is scope to explore running more Welders again now that Deathrite is gone, with the caveat that the increase in sideboaeded graveyard hate necessary to fight graveyard decks will affect how you sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopusman
Not drawing combo pieces can happen. Gamble is definitely an option, particularly if you run more Welders. The other options we have for increasing consistency are planeswalkers (Chandra and Karn) and Smuggler's Copter, which incidentally also gets better with more Welders.
The other thing to note is that variance is a thing, don't worry too much or lose hope because you've had a few bad games. The deck is surprisingly skill intensive to play correctly with the tutors and blasts; deploying them correctly is challenging and part of what makes the deck fun to play.
Thank you for your repl, Jasper. I think I’ll try copters... give something recruiter to do... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper
I may try gambles too. I think I like these better than Chandra Torch +1 to dig.
I think I want to try the deck out. I really have been itching to play welder and this deck has always intrigued me. Now that I can get plebeian recruiters for cheap I think I'm in. I see a "stock" sort of list. Should I just start with a minor tutor target list at first or what?
As far as 'stock lists' go, check out my post on the last page #4999. It's a sort of template for imperial painter and has a couple of links on it to pre-ban lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
In terms of your tutor target list, I would start with just the basics and figure out your playstyle and what would work in whatever meta you're playing the deck in. What are you thinking of putting in?
Nothing crazy really. Just wanted to see what everyone is thinking in the new meta. I have been thinking between this and shortcake and I feel like this is a bit better suited for the meta even though Kapn Cook has been putting up results. I think there are many decks (like in modern) that are pretty cold to mainboard ensnaring bridge right now and I want to play multiple especially if sneak is gonna be back.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper
Kap, your inbox is full!
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If you're running Ensnaring Bridge and intending to run multiples, which I agree is good in this meta, I prefer a build with Chandra rather than Karn + Copters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I agree. And although I'm more likely to run shortcake as well (tutors and canonists? Yes please), I am also struggling with the decision of lots of Bridges and main deck blood moon with Chandras or copters. Its amazing how often you win with copter beatdown but with show and tell and eldrazi really on the up tick I would want multiple Bridges as well. I guess it depends on what you plan to run up against.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper
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I mean, Bridge isn't terrible even with Copters if you are patient and careful about not playing extra lands. Also, not playing bridges until you're sure you want them, and so on. The other option is to have a flexible way (that doesn't mean a lot of card disadvantage) to deal with your own bridge in a pinch, like Transmute Artifact in blue lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
Went 3-1 tonight at my local with my first run of the deck. Only have 1 City of Traitors unfortunately right now so had to do with ghetto painter, but it was fine.
List I believe:
3 Goblin Welder
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Walking Ballista
2 Magus of the Moon
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Grindstone
2 Abrade
2 Lotus Petal
3 Blood Moon
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Pyroblast
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
2 Great Furnace
13 Mountain
Sideboard:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Sulfer Elemental
1 Pyroclasm
1 Sudden Demise
Clasm should be a second Demise probably. Surgicals maybe should be just more Crypt. The main board felt pretty great the whole time. Viashino Heretic was powerful but kind of slow, maybe Vandal is better.
Round 1: BG Depths
Game 1 I have a slow beat down hand and never find a moon or bridge. I go to attack with smugglers copter and he blows me out with eot crop rotation off of ESG with a Hexmage in play.
Game 2 I have a turn 2 Moon hand with not much else going on. He has Duress and I never draw anything else besides lands.
We play a few more games and I win all 3 of them which conforms my suspicion that it's probably a good match up, but bad luck happens.
Round 2: Grixis
Game 1 I am on the draw. Turn 1 Welder, Turn 2 Smugglers Copter, turn 3 he taps down for true name, I play a sol land, cast painter, crew copter, attack and loot away grindstone, welder away copter for grindstone exile SSG and activate. This deck is so fucking sick.
Game 2 he plays USea and passes. I go Petal into Magus of the Moon. He drops a swamp and passes. I simply attack for 2. I know he's on KCommands so I'm not gonna play my painter yet. He plays another USea. I cast Painter with a mana open, go to attack, he casts command on shatter and shock mode. I Pyroblast for the blowout. He draws for turn and concedes to my grindstone next turn.
Round 3: Mono Red Sneak
Game 1 He has mountain + Petal. I know what he's on so I play Revoker. I name Sneak attack instead of Petal. He plays a turn 2 Chandra and makes a Chalice on 1 with the mana ability of her. I attack chandra and cast a painter. He seething songs into Through the Breach and Emrakuls me. Ruff
Game 2 I get welder going and drop an ensnaring bridge. He makes a chalice and makes a combustible gearhulk which I let dome me. I get painter. I abrade chalice and pyroblast his Through the Breach. I attack him with Smugglers Copter to death.
Game 3 I get welder going again and revoke Sneak Attack. He wipes the board. I play Bridge. Get a second bridge and welder. At some point he casts Chandra and I weld one of my bridges for Revoker in response naming chandra. He didn't see it coming. I attack Chandra and he gets chalice for 2. I recruit for Viashino and next turn hit the chalice. He kills heretc but has no follow up and after he does another board wipe I Drop Chandra and +1 her to victory while he has no outs to Bridge left in his deck.
I think game 2 and 3 maybe got mixed up a bit, but Bridges were MVP
Round 4: Eldrazi Post
Game 1 I open with a weak hand. Turn 1 Ballista into turn 2 Painter and just attack. I pump ballista and he spyglasses me off of grindstone (which ended up not mattering because he has big eldrazi to shuffle back in). I find a moon right on time to keep him off of big mana and I beat him to death while pumping Ballista every turn.
Game 2 He plays a turn 2 Expedition Map. I turn 1 Grindstone into I turn 2 Revoker for map. He misses a land drop with just 2 Glimmerpost in play so I suspect Warping Wail. I play Tormods Crypt and painter with mana to activate, but I want to hold up blast. He spyglasses and names Stone and drew tomb to keep up wail. He wails, I have to blast. I Play a blood moon. He then monoliths into Thought Knot and takes my 2nd Grindstone over a 2nd Moon. I have a blast in hand but he has 2 spyglass now. I blast a second Thought Knot. He gets a 3rd and it takes my excess Moon. I recruit for Viashino but my life is getting low. Instead of Electing to double block a Thought Knot I just chump figuring I have all the tools to win on board I just need to Heretic his Spyglasses rather than trying to draw cards since I'm choked at 3 mana anyway. I have just enough Chump blocks to survive the Thought Knot Onslaught and heretic the last Spyglass and grind him and then Crypt with the Eldrazi Triggers on the stack.
I really liked the deck overall. It was wicked fun, felt powerful, and it was nice to see my opponents on the backfoot. I think being patient was really key, trying to pick my spots rather than just going for it and getting blown out.
2-2 tonight. Lost to DnT because I kept having to keep one landers and couldn't draw more to save my life. Lost a close one to infect. I thought ballista for 2 was gonna lock it up, but he had all the pump spellsand top decked berserk just in time despite him countering all the wrong spells and even blowing a berserk on a non attacking painter thinking it would kill it. Magic sucks sometimes
Something I've been tinkering with:
::Main::
4 Painter's Servant
3 Imperial Recruiter
2 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Dark Confidant
1 Agent of Stromgald
1 Goblin Welder
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Pyroblast
4 Thoughtseize
4 Tainted Pact
2 Sudden Shock
1 Abrade
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Kolaghan's Command
4 Grindstone
2 Blood Moon
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Alpine Moon
3 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Badlands
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Great Furnace
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 City of Traitors
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wasteland
1 Buried Ruin
::Sideboard::
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Dread of Night
1 Engineered Plague
1 Meekstone
1 Alpine Moon
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Abrade
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Viashino Heretic
That is freaking spicy. Has it seemed competitive? I'd love to hear the thinking behind it if you get a chance.
It's competitive. I mean, the foundation is exactly the same as any other Painter deck except it's using a unique tutor package (Pact over Enlightened).
Pact seems pretty meh just looking at the deck. How does it work out in actual games? I like the thought of black splash, but not necessarily for pact. I could see Infernal Tutor actually being decent especially in a version already heavily in on ensnaring BridgeQuote:
Originally Posted by Michael Keller
3-2 today at Tuskvitational. My list pretty untuned with Cratermakers. Many of my matches were won on the strength of blood moon which affirms one of the main reasons to play the deck. Losses werewere to goblins (their cratermakers and trashmasters really make it tough), and Big Eldrazi post (Grim Monolith > Blood Moon). Beat Mono black Braids, Lands, and Grixis Control. Bridges were great. Unsure of how to tune more. Don't know if double down on prison element or go more inin on the aggro copter plan. Either way I've been itching to play Karn. Might be the next thing to try.
Got top 8 at a local 3k. Maybe I'll write up aa worryreport later when I'm not completely hung over
How effective a lock has moon been, given the rise of back to basics in miracles? Has anyone noticed a change?
My last event moon was outstanding. Didn't play against miracles though. Fast moon on the play still mightmight steal a game and even turning fetches off is good while also limiting how many spells they can play. Idk, I'm playing the deck because of the strength of blood moon so I'm not cutting down on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by finksfinksfinks
3-O tonight. Blood Moon is good. Tried out Sin Prodders tonight as aa draw engine that has synergy with welder and improves thethe beat downdown. It was good one of the games. Deck feels great still. Obviously with Sin Orodders mana monkeymonkey is better than petal so iI ran more of them. I think it has some potential.
Can you share your list?Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I'm not totally convinced about mana monkey better than petal, Wes, it's 3 damages instead of 0, but petal synergies with welder and allow you to take back artifacts put in the graveyard via sin prodder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
My list I played last night I believe is:
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pia and Kira Nalaar
1 Walking Ballista
3 Goblin Welder
3 Sin Prodder
3 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast (I have a nice FBB Korean one so I'm gonna play it dammit)
3 Smuggler's Copter
2 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Lotus Petal
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Great Furnace
11 Mountain
SB Fluctuates but last night
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Abrade
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Pyroclasm
A bit different from my 1k Top 8 list. I need to make a cut from the main board. Probably is either Lavamancer or Ballista. Moons won me my G1 against Miracles. Turn 1 Moon into T3 combo kill while he had 2 Scalding Tarn. He also (probably mistakenly) removed a G2 moon which was nice and cleared the path for Sin Prodder to stick around. Moons won me Games 1&3 against Mono Green 12 Post. Magus was key G3 because he had 2 KGrips in hand but a 2/2 doesn't care about that. I get why people are down on moons right now in the meta, but a fast moon can still steal a win. And half the reason to play the deck is due to moons. You don't play the combo because it's particularly powerful or efficient.
17 Artifacts does feel kind of low for Welder tbh. Many games it just sits there and does nothing. But when it's good it's good. And it's still a great trick against opposing decks if you can bin an artifact. Also I'm kind of meh on Cratermaker. It's been fine, but so often I really just wish it were still abrade. I think at a large event I'd go back to more prison based with bridges and such and no Copters and put back in Abrade
Has anyone played imperial painter recently?
I imagine that with the rise of basics again, it’s not as effective as strawberry shortcake or some other combo build. But I imagine it’s still a thing.
I’d be interested to give it a spin, but I don’t have the city of traitors. Does anyone have a budget option/idea for it?
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7-2 with Light up the Stage Painter at #SCGNY
nice! good luck in day 2Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Keller
Two Lava Darts in the sideboard have been amazing (and even better with Light up the Stage).
8-2 now. Beat Green 12-Post.
Congrats! That sounds like it’s an easy matchup though, especially if you go 6 moon effects.
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Megadeus's Sin Prodder tech works especially nicely with Light Up the Stage, which is new tech from Michael Keller. Worth trying mono-red again?
Gonna be playing side events for legacy all weekend here at GP Tampa. Here's the list for the first side event. Will either tweak throughout or go to steel stompy
Imperial Painter:
Maindeck (61)
1 Walking Ballista
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Painter's Servant
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Light Up the Stage
2 Lotus Petal
4 Grindstone
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Blood Moon
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Great Furnace
10 Mountain
Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrade
2 Pyroclasm
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ensnaring Bridge
Inspired by Hollywood using light up the stage so we'll see how it goes
First thoughts on goldfish, does light up the stage incentive me to play petals over Spirit guides since they are more easily castable?
I'm thinking once one of those blood moons lands you'll want some grizzly bears to attack with that also help you enable LUTS. I'd start testing with SSGs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Thoughts on using LutS alongside Copter? They seem like a good way to generate damage and card advantage, thereby digging through your deck to find combo pieces.
I'm going to be testing a version similar to the shortcake decks, but with Etutor replaced with LutS to eliminate the white splash.