[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

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Originally Posted by Morden

I like the idea to play mox as fifth petal basically, it makes the nauseam plan stronger. And with this meta (at least, my meta, that is made by eldrazi and D&T, miracle following) I think nauseam has become more than a B-plan, the more the game goes long the more I feel bad and next to lose.
I feel confortable to have 14 lands + mox, mana sources are virtually the same, mox is more versatile (you can play it with no imprint just to increase storm count for example, it can help you to be hellbent....)
Imho we don't have anymore time to sit down, waiting for a discard card to avoid counter, or play around them, using maybe the double pif. That's why I'm also thinking to remove the second MD pif with an empty: by doing this, I have also a free slot in the sideboard, that is always great, I'd like to have a 30 cards sideboard with this meta :( (hurkyl, dread of night, carpet, confidant, massacre......so many beautiful cards)

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Chrome Mox actually saved me during an Ad Nauseam yesterday, though not because I needed the mana source as much as because I had to yank a Gitaxian Probe out of my hand to let me tutor for the win. I'm not sure how much I like having the card in the deck at the moment, but it's been good so far.

I don't like running Empty in the maindeck, but it might be a metagame call. I think you're right that the focus at the moment should be on upping our speed because a quick combo is our best answer to the flood of hate we now need to face. I don't think removing the second Past in Flames is a good plan, though. It's really important against anything running countermagic, and even though it feels awkward, chaining cantrips is sometimes necessary to find what we need to close the game. Also, it lets us rely slightly less on digging for tutors, which I think is pretty important. I agree that it's slower than Petition, but it's a lot more stable.

The Empty the Warrens plan often doesn't end the game any faster because we'll need at least one attack step (probably two or sometimes more). Its principal advantage is that it lets us barf our cards before a lot of permanent-based hate can come down (an advantage over Past in Flames), but in non-hatebear/Chalice matchups, the speed of the kill is more important than the speed of the combo, and we aren't guaranteed a victory with the goblins.

Got owned yesterday. I made some bad plays and kept at least one hand that I shouldn't have kept, but I also noticed that I flooded on discard in several games, even with only six in the deck. I guess that rules out a fourth Therapy. Played my first match against Aluren in some time. Seems like one matchup outside of Miracles where Krosan Grip would've saved the day.

Just chiming in to add another opinion:

- I cut the Xantids/Carpets from my sideboard a while ago; they were fine for a bit but I haven't missed them at all
- I like the Dark Petition in the main with the second PiF in the board
- I like the Chrome mox in the main as well
- Empty could be fine in the main, but I find I generally want Ad Nauseam if I want to go fast, and sometimes you can just put together five mana and an ad nauseam to refill your hand after you've been hit with discard, which empty can't do
- I play 15 lands/7 discard, and the mix feels good. I don't think 14 or 6 is necessarily wrong, but I hate being a discard short of winning or mulling no landers, so I hedge on the high side
- I actually might be crazy, but I'm currently running 2 Hurkyll's/2 Empty in the side for Eldrazi, and have taken a surprising number of matches with them; it's definitely still not even 50/50, but with a little luck you can actually make goblins and get them a reasonable amount of time. I also have an extra Chrome Mox in the board for that plan.

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Originally Posted by taconaut

Just chiming in to add another opinion:

- I cut the Xantids/Carpets from my sideboard a while ago; they were fine for a bit but I haven't missed them at all
- I like the Dark Petition in the main with the second PiF in the board
- I like the Chrome mox in the main as well
- Empty could be fine in the main, but I find I generally want Ad Nauseam if I want to go fast, and sometimes you can just put together five mana and an ad nauseam to refill your hand after you've been hit with discard, which empty can't do
- I play 15 lands/7 discard, and the mix feels good. I don't think 14 or 6 is necessarily wrong, but I hate being a discard short of winning or mulling no landers, so I hedge on the high side
- I actually might be crazy, but I'm currently running 2 Hurkyll's/2 Empty in the side for Eldrazi, and have taken a surprising number of matches with them; it's definitely still not even 50/50, but with a little luck you can actually make goblins and get them a reasonable amount of time. I also have an extra Chrome Mox in the board for that plan.

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1) Agree
2) This is an option I was thinking about......I think I will leave a pif MD, without adding another in the SB (usually when I play with 2 md I always side out 1 of them, so I see no reason to waste a slot in the side for it). Honestly I'd prefer grim tutor instead dark petition, but since I don't have it I will try with petition XD
3) Agree
4) No absolutely, empty never repleaces nauseam, it can be a second wincon with tendrils, with the help of nauseam.
5) 7 discards are ok also for me, 15 lands also. If you play mox in the main I think you can go down with 14 lands.......
6) Hurkyl is my 16th sb card, as soon I find a free slot, it enters.



about the 14 lands:about this, what would you cut? bayou? tropical? With the idea to not have the one you cut in the sideboard....

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Originally Posted by Morden

about the 14 lands:about this, what would you cut? bayou? tropical? With the idea to not have the one you cut in the sideboard....

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I keep a Bayou in my 'board and run the standard setup of duals with a Tropical Island in place of Island #2. Not sure how much of a difference our fetchland setup really makes, but I'm on 4x Delta, 2x Tarn, 1x Strand and Mire (budget is a factor here, but problems with this setup are very rare in my experience).

I occasionally need to mulligan for lack of lands, but I find it much more likely that I'll topdeck numerous lands when I want to get the show on the road, even with 14 lands in the maindeck and after several cantrips. Cantrip strategy is something about which I'm interested in learning more if anyone wants to PM me.

I'm starting to think that land-count is a matter of taste. I can see the importance of hitting every land drop over the course of a long game or having an extra land against decks that really hit the manabase hard (indeed, I board in the Bayou somewhat often), but I don't like waiting for the extra lands to show when I can—or should—just start barfing cards. A lot of that has to do with the decks I've been facing, I think, but having live draws feels more important than having surplus lands, now more than at any point since I started playing the deck.

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Originally Posted by Morden

1) Agree
2) This is an option I was thinking about......I think I will leave a pif MD, without adding another in the SB (usually when I play with 2 md I always side out 1 of them, so I see no reason to waste a slot in the side for it). Honestly I'd prefer grim tutor instead dark petition, but since I don't have it I will try with petition XD

I think double PiF in the main is totally defensible, I just like the flexibility of the Dark Petition. I do think Grim Tutor would be good as well, but I personally can't convince myself to put down the money for it. I believe there have been, maybe, two or three times it would've been better to have Grim over Petition? I just don't think it's a several-hundred-dollar difference for me.

3) Agree
4) No absolutely, empty never repleaces nauseam, it can be a second wincon with tendrils, with the help of nauseam.

Well, for some matchups, I like to swap it, like Burn and UR delver, because of life total pressure/their susceptibility to going "wide"

5) 7 discards are ok also for me, 15 lands also. If you play mox in the main I think you can go down with 14 lands.......

I think of Chrome Mox more as a ritual than a land; it serves different purposes during an Ad Nauseam and in the context of opening hands, for instance (it makes AdN with nothing floating better, but hands with only Mox as an initial mana source are worse).

6) Hurkyl is my 16th sb card, as soon I find a free slot, it enters.



about the 14 lands:about this, what would you cut? bayou? tropical? With the idea to not have the one you cut in the sideboard....

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@Togores What's your opinion about ANT decks with Chrome Moxes like Caleb Scherer list in #SGCBALT for example?

http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/253618

Its nice, I lthink its legit having one instead of the 15th land, But like empty ots not a card I really like, sometimes itrs nuts, sometimes its the worst. And drawing 2x is really bad. I like to be consisten and just draw as much good cards as possible :D

Also I dont like the 2 toa MD, only good vs burn and if TKS snaps the one drawn copy from your hand (5% senario?)

One other reason Caleb has for a second Tendrils is in case the first one gets snapped by a discard spell and then eaten by a Deathrite Shaman, as well as giving him some flexibility with pitching one to Chrome Mox if needed. His goal was to make Ad Nauseam more consistently good, and drawing a Tendrils off of an Ad Nauseam is pretty good.

The problem of this deck is that need more business cards. Only 4 Infernal Tutors, 1 Ad Nauseam and 1 Past as bombs. Better play TES if you want to play Chrome MOx

This makes nauseam faster, but the second tendrills does nothing in the deck. Also usualy dont let you win faster or even beat a lot of cards that even other cards would do. more moxen + more tendrills does not much. I understand more moxen and more ad nauseam cards. Its something I have recomended to friends. The usual 1 ( may be 2) moxen + 2nd nauseam does makes your deck faster. But not the 2nd tendrills+ mox.


Also the Discard + drs thinh is bullshit. has hapnened to me but its like 1/100 games.

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Originally Posted by Togores

This makes nauseam faster, but the second tendrills does nothing in the deck. Also usualy dont let you win faster or even beat a lot of cards that even other cards would do. more moxen + more tendrills does not much. I understand more moxen and more ad nauseam cards. Its something I have recomended to friends. The usual 1 ( may be 2) moxen + 2nd nauseam does makes your deck faster. But not the 2nd tendrills+ mox.


Also the Discard + drs thinh is bullshit. has hapnened to me but its like 1/100 games.

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this is a thing I want to try.

in general caleb's list is interesting, but please:

-2 islands??? to have in the SB 1 tropical, 1 bayou (and another mox)??
- no bouncer in SB? It seems to me a sb just to fight miracle XD. Decay is a great card, but you cannot use it for all......it requires green, under tax effects it costs 3..... surgical is ok, it can sobstitue flusterstorm in some matchups. 3 xantid?? I don't know USA metagame, maybe D&T and eldrazi are not present there.....

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Originally Posted by Togores

This makes nauseam faster, but the second tendrills does nothing in the deck. Also usualy dont let you win faster or even beat a lot of cards that even other cards would do. more moxen + more tendrills does not much. I understand more moxen and more ad nauseam cards. Its something I have recomended to friends. The usual 1 ( may be 2) moxen + 2nd nauseam does makes your deck faster. But not the 2nd tendrills+ mox.


Also the Discard + drs thinh is bullshit. has hapnened to me but its like 1/100 games.

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Could you make us a sneak peek of your list with these kind of variants? just to start testing it..

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18878&iddeck=143220

There are like 4 infernal 1 mox missing.

You can work on the discard cantrips and mana base. But there is a idea.

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Originally Posted by Togores

This makes nauseam faster, but the second tendrills does nothing in the deck. Also usualy dont let you win faster or even beat a lot of cards that even other cards would do. more moxen + more tendrills does not much. I understand more moxen and more ad nauseam cards. Its something I have recomended to friends. The usual 1 ( may be 2) moxen + 2nd nauseam does makes your deck faster. But not the 2nd tendrills+ mox.


Also the Discard + drs thinh is bullshit. has hapnened to me but its like 1/100 games.

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I mean, there are also a few more corner cases. It lets you use LED in situations where you have a Tendrils in hand in the face of graveyard hate (Deathrite Shaman being the most relevant G1), it leads to more games against Delver decks and against Miracles where the draw up to 8 cards, cantrip and natural Tendrils them plan is available, it increases the odds that you have a hand that can natural tendrils them using their counterspells to build storm, and it generally reduces your reliance on getting a big, counterable spell to resolve. I'm not really a fan of lots of Tendrils in a combo deck in general (I believe that the biggest draw to a combo deck is a compact win condition) but all of those little edges, plus the 5% that you gave it in your post and the 1% that you gave it above, could well add up to a fairly significant edge, depending on matchups.

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Originally Posted by Togores

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18878&iddeck=143220

There are like 4 infernal 1 mox missing.

You can work on the discard cantrips and mana base. But there is a idea.

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No Past in Flames?

Its missing or seems so.
The list was just some inspiration.

I almost never keep a hand with Tendrils in it. It's worked a few times, but usually it's like an automatic mulligan without the scry.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I don't see any point in running multiples in the main, especially because that actually makes Surgical Extraction more of a problem.

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Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce

I almost never keep a hand with Tendrils in it. It's worked a few times, but usually it's like an automatic mulligan without the scry.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I don't see any point in running multiples in the main, especially because that actually makes Surgical Extraction more of a problem.

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Tendrils in the opening hand is not always bad tbh. Tendrils, a ritual and a Past in Flames in the opening hand and you're not far off looping PiF to win with no need for a tutor. I played 2 tendrils in the main in Lille (http://mtgpulse.com/event/20751#295194) and was largely happy with it. It was great against the delver decks that would often be at 15 or less life after turn 3 from probes and fetches and forces. It makes baby tendrils split over two turns of the game (not necessarily, in fact rarely concurrent turns) a legit plan. Main deck 2 tendrils doesn't really seem to have issues with Surgical as that is not a main deck card meaning you only have to contend with it post board, at which point you might not want the 2nd tendrils - depending on matchup. But even if the opponent is running surgicals I'm not sure I understand why that would be a problem? Because you are more likely to get a tendrils into your yard without killing the opp, either through having it discarded or by firing off a non lethal tendrils? I don't think that's a very common problem tbh, but sure.

I'm not currently running double Tendrils in the main. Mostly it doesn't feel good enough against the non-blue decks and the combo decks. But I wouldn't be averse to tampering with that approach again another time.

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

Tendrils in the opening hand is not always bad tbh. Tendrils, a ritual and a Past in Flames in the opening hand and you're not far off looping PiF to win with no need for a tutor. I played 2 tendrils in the main in Lille (http://mtgpulse.com/event/20751#295194) and was largely happy with it. It was great against the delver decks that would often be at 15 or less life after turn 3 from probes and fetches and forces. It makes baby tendrils split over two turns of the game (not necessarily, in fact rarely concurrent turns) a legit plan. Main deck 2 tendrils doesn't really seem to have issues with Surgical as that is not a main deck card meaning you only have to contend with it post board, at which point you might not want the 2nd tendrils - depending on matchup. But even if the opponent is running surgicals I'm not sure I understand why that would be a problem? Because you are more likely to get a tendrils into your yard without killing the opp, either through having it discarded or by firing off a non lethal tendrils? I don't think that's a very common problem tbh, but sure.

I'm not currently running double Tendrils in the main. Mostly it doesn't feel good enough against the non-blue decks and the combo decks. But I wouldn't be averse to tampering with that approach again another time.

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Yeah, I agree with you. The main problem I have regarding Tendrils in hand is that we have to work around it if we're trying to tutor for something to enable the combo, and that's a spot where Surgical can really bite us hard. Of course, Surgical on a Ritual there is just as big a problem, but I think we're tipping our hand if we have to discard the Tendrils ourselves off of LED in order to get the combo going.

I have had opening-hand Tendrils win me games. Decks like Reanimator that dump a lot of life immediately can be vulnerable to Tendrils for 12, for instance.

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

I tried getting jiggy with it... played a league with the Caleb Scherer double island, 14 land, mana base AND a doomsday sideboard for the miracles matchup. Won't say it really panned out all that well but was fun matches none the less:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...RKu7itsWcvcBZ4

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Thanks for the videos. I'd prefer a different list but it's hard to complain with all the great and diverse content you have recorded and have made available. I have to admit that my favorite part was the "glass" of wine. Seemed like an enjoyable evening.

yesterday got smashed again against eldrazi and eldrazi-mud......it's incredibile, also after a mulligan to 5 (g1, so with less hate) I cannot win. It's enough a thorn, it gives them time to rebuild the hands, and when we are ready to storm over the tax effects, trinisphere/thought not seer/random bad things come.
That's why I'm starting to think about the doomsday/shelldock isle sideboard plan..... in fact, the deck becomes a one spell combo basically. You lose half life, but if you play correct and with a bit of luck you can cast emrakul the same turn you play doomsday. It seems a good plan against everyone....maybe not against who plays karakas or fast combo.
Why not to play it?

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Originally Posted by Morden

yesterday got smashed again against eldrazi and eldrazi-mud......it's incredibile, also after a mulligan to 5 (g1, so with less hate) I cannot win. It's enough a thorn, it gives them time to rebuild the hands, and when we are ready to storm over the tax effects, trinisphere/thought not seer/random bad things come.
That's why I'm starting to think about the doomsday/shelldock isle sideboard plan..... in fact, the deck becomes a one spell combo basically. You lose half life, but if you play correct and with a bit of luck you can cast emrakul the same turn you play doomsday. It seems a good plan against everyone....maybe not against who plays karakas or fast combo.
Why not to play it?

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Shelldock enters tapped so baring some very unlikely scenarios you will never resolve doomsday and cast emrakul in the same turn.

It's not the worst plan but is very vulnerable to Wasteland which some Eldrazi lists play. My main issue is that I don't think it is actually strong enough vs miracles. And it taking up 6 SB slots is a tall order.

so stupid.....I forgot about the fact that isle enters tapped. well, at this point things change, yes. Also miracle can have the time to prepare/find the terminus, and isle can be wasteland'd. I liked the idea to unify the sideboard......Miracle at the moment is "good" with confidant/extirpate, the problem is only eldrazi for me. I'd play thing in the ice, but if i have to dedicate 3/4 slots in my SB only for ONE matchup, they must be PERFECT, and titi isn't.

ok so let's everyone who keep track of their results post their Eldrazi lifetime score:

I'm 6-6 atm (only 2 times Op did not know what I was playing btw.)

with 6 discard, 4-5 answers, EtW, 2-3 ToA, no AdN ... because I don't think it's that bad, it's stupid (like most of the non U MUs) but let's distinguish between "the MU is miserable because I lost without casting a spell" (which haha I know very well from the other side of the table) or I luckily won, dodged all this and that (yeah that's what they get for playing pile of crap I'd be embarassed to admit owning) and let's talk strictly winrate... I've talked with at least to ppl who had roughtly the same winrate recently so post yours and prove me wrong! Because my score with Merfolk is two times worse - does it feel like bad MU? hell no, so is my winrate 25%? no sir! in last 12 months it's fuckin 23,07%! ...

I am 4-10 against Eldrazi and 1-3 against Eldrazi & Taxes.

I'm interested in input on this unorthodox list I put together to combat a very Miraculous and Stonebladey local metagame.

Code:

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4 Infernal Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam

4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay

1 Rain of Filth
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal

3 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea

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Sideboard has some stuff to speed up (more Chrome Moxen) and combat specific non-Miracles/Stoneblade stuff that I can expect to play against like Goblins and D&T.

I'm really unsure about the maindeck Chrome Mox, which is a sort of hedge to try to keep the Abrupt Decays from ruining Ad Nauseam percentages, and the manabase (I don't have any Catacombses handy).

I honestly don't think either of these matchups needs any extra work before sideboarding. With 2 Past in Flames / 2 Tendrils / 1 Empty / 2 Top I am at 75% game one against Miracles. I did win one or two games because of Flooded Strands and Tops though, making my opponents think they were playing the mirror.

New batch of videos https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...KAcsLaPFjrFDhg

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

New batch of videos https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...KAcsLaPFjrFDhg

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Regarding your Enchantress guy: I would have done the same: There is no action in his hand and why not trolling you with some beatdown for 0, tapping out because Enchantress usually doesnt play any stack interaction. Nonetheless, nice videos.

Thanks Robert. That guy was such a troll :smile:

Enchantress guy was clearly playing around Asphyxiate. Obviously you don't play much Legacy.

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Originally Posted by thefringthing

Enchantress guy was clearly playing around Asphyxiate. Obviously you don't play much Legacy.

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That must be it! Now I've just got to learn why he kept tapping his Serra's Sanctum (with no enchantments on board).

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

That must be it! Now I've just got to learn why he kept tapping his Serra's Sanctum (with no enchantments on board).

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Asphyxiate doesn't work against shroud :tongue:

Martin, what do you think about empty MD? Looking at your last playlist, I saw that on 6 matches you never won a game thanks to it. I like the list, in my local meta full of eldrazi empty MD is interesting, but removing the nauseam seems a big loss to me, a loss that can't be replaced by empty.

2-1 again today at the local. Lost to Mav; he ripped a topdeck Gaddock Teeg in game 1, and in game 2, he had redundant Thalias and Thoughtseized me when I had a Disfigure in hand. I couldn't find a second answer.

Not sure what to do about this. It's fine to say "we're faster than they are," but I've learned that's something that doesn't happen every game. Starting to consider sideboard Massacre again because he also landed a Mother of Runes, so none of the hate I had in the deck would've broken through even if I'd found it. The hatebear matchups just feel really bad with all the redundancy they can bring to the table now.

It's worth pointing out that two weeks ago I beat the same guy with Empty the Warrens in games 2 and 3, but it's feeling more and more like a toss-up matchup because they've got so many cards that can zero us if we aren't running at our absolute best. It feels like I need an excellent hand, but they just need a hand that isn't abominable.

Decided to test a Doomsday sb last weekend (4 Decay, 1 Green dual, 3 DoN, 1 Massacre, 6 DD slots with EtW+AdN, 14 Lands and a Chrome Mox main) for a change. Both losses to the same guy (Noloam for the MTGO players) on Miracles despite all the sb cards. Didn't play particularly well, and was a bit unlucky in the final (he found Terminus in 1 blind card g1 for 15 tokens, and I mulled to 5 postboard). The mox was pretty weak in some matchups, but was key in g3 versus the DnT/Eldrazi deck in round-5. Doubt I'll be playing the DD package again any time soon, because multiple Tendrils are just a lot more space efficient, so a bit sad I couldn't at least resolve one Doomsday.

R1: UR Delver 2-0 (Had the 1-off Tendrils in my opener both games, and won with it. He misstimed his counters in g2 though, and could have won with his FoW,FoW,Fluster,Fluster,U card,U card hand)
R2: 4 Horsemen 2-0 (apparantly legal now with a different wincon)
R3: Miracles 0-2 (He went turn-1 eot brainstorm, t2 CB and had put a 0 on top instead of a 1, that basicly took away my remaining hope of a fast kill.)
R4: Jund 2-1 (He scried to the top in g3, and never played that card despite keeping a 1 lander. Because of this I had him on exactly Surgical, also because of his discard choices. Turned out to just be a land, and almost lost because of it)
R5: Eldrazi 'n Taxes (no Chalice/Spheres though) 2-1
SF: Jund 2-0 (I go t2 brainstorm, dark rit, duress intending to probe, cracking LED in response after to Ad Nauseam, but he reveals double Surgical. He never casts the 2nd surgical though, so I somehow steal the game)
F: Miracles 0-2

An interesting spot in g1 of the finals vs Miracles:
I have a Cabal Therapy on the stack, with the ability to make 16 goblins if everything resolves after this. He casts brainstorm in response with a Force in hand and no further blue cards or open mana, and a top on the battlefield. What blue card do you name after the brainstorm is done resolving? I didn't know his exact list, but it seemed to be somewhat streamlined with a number of Mentor and Ponder main. I also heard him talk about Predict between the rounds, but wasn't sure if he ran them or not. He has played ANT for a long time, and should be quite familiar with the mindgames.

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Originally Posted by JamieW89

Decided to test a Doomsday sb last weekend (4 Decay, 1 Green dual, 3 DoN, 1 Massacre, 6 DD slots with EtW+AdN, 14 Lands and a Chrome Mox main) for a change. Both losses to the same guy (Noloam for the MTGO players) on Miracles despite all the sb cards. Didn't play particularly well, and was a bit unlucky in the final (he found Terminus in 1 blind card g1 for 15 tokens, and I mulled to 5 postboard). The mox was pretty weak in some matchups, but was key in g3 versus the DnT/Eldrazi deck in round-5. Doubt I'll be playing the DD package again any time soon, because multiple Tendrils are just a lot more space efficient, so a bit sad I couldn't at least resolve one Doomsday.

R1: UR Delver 2-0 (Had the 1-off Tendrils in my opener both games, and won with it. He misstimed his counters in g2 though, and could have won with his FoW,FoW,Fluster,Fluster,U card,U card hand)
R2: 4 Horsemen 2-0 (apparantly legal now with a different wincon)
R3: Miracles 0-2 (He went turn-1 eot brainstorm, t2 CB and had put a 0 on top instead of a 1, that basicly took away my remaining hope of a fast kill.)
R4: Jund 2-1 (He scried to the top in g3, and never played that card despite keeping a 1 lander. Because of this I had him on exactly Surgical, also because of his discard choices. Turned out to just be a land, and almost lost because of it)
R5: Eldrazi 'n Taxes (no Chalice/Spheres though) 2-1
SF: Jund 2-0 (I go t2 brainstorm, dark rit, duress intending to probe, cracking LED in response after to Ad Nauseam, but he reveals double Surgical. He never casts the 2nd surgical though, so I somehow steal the game)
F: Miracles 0-2

An interesting spot in g1 of the finals vs Miracles:
I have a Cabal Therapy on the stack, with the ability to make 16 goblins if everything resolves after this. He casts brainstorm in response with a Force in hand and no further blue cards or open mana, and a top on the battlefield. What blue card do you name after the brainstorm is done resolving? I didn't know his exact list, but it seemed to be somewhat streamlined with a number of Mentor and Ponder main. I also heard him talk about Predict between the rounds, but wasn't sure if he ran them or not. He has played ANT for a long time, and should be quite familiar with the mindgames.

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how many times did you win thanks to ETW?

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Originally Posted by Morden

how many times did you win thanks to ETW?

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Only once preboard. But I cast it three times in preboard games (once as a desperation attempt through a Thalia but not for enough, and in the final where I was quite favored after resolving it but still lost).

I've read every recent page of this thread and I can't seem to grasp what the final consensus was on Daze. I'm asking because I'll be playing a tournament on saturday with a completely unknown metagame, and I'm not sure what maindeck I want to run. I really wanted to try Daze in an actual event, but I'm not sure if it's the best to run them if I have absolutely no read on the metagame. So what was the final consensus, is the card decent enough in the maindeck?

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Originally Posted by JamieW89

Only once preboard. But I cast it three times in preboard games (once as a desperation attempt through a Thalia but not for enough, and in the final where I was quite favored after resolving it but still lost).

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That's the point. A lot of time I found myself near to victory with goblins, but there was often something that went wrong. 3 creatures */2 are enough to stop the horde, and this deck is not so fast like TES to throw them on the board turn 1-2.
Yes, I think I will take it out from MB.

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Originally Posted by Dr_D

I've read every recent page of this thread and I can't seem to grasp what the final consensus was on Daze. I'm asking because I'll be playing a tournament on saturday with a completely unknown metagame, and I'm not sure what maindeck I want to run. I really wanted to try Daze in an actual event, but I'm not sure if it's the best to run them if I have absolutely no read on the metagame. So what was the final consensus, is the card decent enough in the maindeck?

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ahahahhaah well, it's like the petition debate :laugh: . Someone loves it, others hate it.......try!! My experience: I had 3 daze MB, I removed them for another discard because:

-consistency/linearity: this deck is good at discarding cards. If you want more control of the game, keep on this way. Otherwise, add cantrips, tutor or other.
-daze is useless on the draw (as discards, ok......so why add them?)
-half of the power of this card in THIS deck is that no one expects it. If you reveal it after a nauseam, you loose this advantage G2/G3.
-it's a bad topdeck. Drawing a discard late game is better in general, you can use it to protect your storm against counterspell or to simply +1 the storm counter. Yes, also daze, but I would not reveal it if my opponent doesn't know its existance just to increase the storm counter.
-if your meta is unknow, discard spells are the best way to know who you are facing. In my local meta I know that if a tundra hits the field I'm playing against miracle...... but it could be a stoneblade for you.

Don't get me wrong, daze saved me sometimes, maybe I will use them again, but AT THE MOMENT, in MY meta, is pretty bad.